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Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:41 PM

Last night I went to the bar to watch basketball. Instead, I got the full litany of RWTPs.

Place was packed, only one seat left at the bar and I made the mistake of turning to the person next to me and commenting that the game seems to be starting a bit late. There must be a Seinfeld/Curb Your Enthusiasm type descriptive term for what happened next when the fellow next to me saw the opening - gave him a centimeter, and he took over my evening.

I guess it is good practice every now and then to end up sitting next to someone that is your polar opposite in terms of ideology. Among the wonderful lines I had thrown at me (and gleefully rebutted)...

"this global warming stuff is just another case of politics and big government trying to brainwash people. I remember a few years ago when the weather around here was really cold...The government is telling the scientists what to say"

"I believe in evolution - and that we will evolve into where sperm count lowers and we have fewer babies - so carbon emissions will be reduced, and we will evolve to be able to deal with it"

"My wife and I are in therapy because she just doesn't get me.... I really think money is the most important thing and I also think that man should be the hunter/gatherer/wage earner, and my wife should be the one staying home with the kids"

"the only things that should be government-led are our country's defense - everything else should be privatized"

and that is just a small selection of where the chat went over the 2.5 hours I was there.

Oh the fun I had.....the poor beleaguered fellow didn't know what hit him as I whacked away every talking point he had and he ended up saying "hey man, you really made me think about some of these things"

But - and I guess this is the learning - when you are face to face with someone, you actually engage with facts - the internet is so different when you can just toss any old insult or throw away comment at someone. Just reinforced how important it is for people to actually talk. I really think I may have put a pinprick into his right-wing bubble that he clearly lived in his whole life.

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Reply Last night I went to the bar to watch basketball. Instead, I got the full litany of RWTPs. (Original post)
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2013 OP
Cooley Hurd Feb 2013 #1
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2013 #3
rivegauche Feb 2013 #16
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #22
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #25
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #30
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #32
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #33
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #35
jmowreader Feb 2013 #29
KamaAina Feb 2013 #37
Cooley Hurd Feb 2013 #40
lovemydog Feb 2013 #42
gateley Feb 2013 #2
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2013 #4
AndyA Feb 2013 #5
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2013 #6
narnian60 Feb 2013 #7
gateley Feb 2013 #8
narnian60 Feb 2013 #10
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2013 #14
marions ghost Feb 2013 #9
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2013 #13
marions ghost Feb 2013 #43
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #11
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2013 #12
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #20
SammyWinstonJack Feb 2013 #26
southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #31
Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #15
adieu Feb 2013 #17
The Wizard Feb 2013 #18
DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #19
marions ghost Feb 2013 #44
Botany Feb 2013 #21
Initech Feb 2013 #23
EC Feb 2013 #24
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #27
frylock Feb 2013 #28
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #36
frylock Feb 2013 #38
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #39
frylock Feb 2013 #41
just1voice Feb 2013 #34

Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:45 PM

1. Privatized Fire and Police??

Simply tell them to watch Gangs of New York. Privatized, for-profit public safety entities NEVER work. In the movie, the privatized Fire Department would loot the building before attempting to put the fire out. And the police would ONLY serve the highest bidder for their services.

Oh sure, it was 1863, but greed hasn't changed since then...

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:47 PM

3. We actually got into a whole thing about why deregulation in general doesn't work...

by the end of the night I was using his talking points to refute his new talking points. He clearly was just regurgitating stuff he heard, with no actual thought process happening.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:01 PM

16. That's just what they ALL do.

They simply repeat the lies, without ever thinking about whether it's actually true. My rw brother does this. When I refute him with facts, he simply changes the subject. It's infuriating. Hats off to you for hanging in there.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:46 PM

22. Buncha parrots...

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:53 PM

25. Hey... my two conures resent that!

They do not repeat a thing... though we have had to become fluent in conure. (They do not speak English, but lord knows we know what they want)

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 03:23 PM

30. The one here talks himself to sleep...

He repeats all the words and phrases he knows in a low voice.

Included is things like "Wanna take a bath?" "Ha,..ha,..ha..." "I love you." "Hey!" "Go bye bye?" and a good imitation of my fiancee's laugh.

Mind you, when he's awake the voice is louder.

And then there's the squawk.

The one that drives you nuts.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 04:11 PM

32. It's a conure

And it is spring...all parrot owners just love that combo, parrot+spring.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 04:40 PM

33. Could be worse...

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 05:32 PM

35. Every time I watch I laugh

And have to make sure the Nanday does not get any ideas...

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 03:04 PM

29. America started out with private fire societies

You had to subscribe to a fire society - paying them a monthly fee - to get them to come out. If you were subscribed to one and they were busy, your house burned down anyway...and while it was, the fire societies your neighbors belonged to would watch your fire to ensure it didn't jump to their protected properties. I can only assume many homeowners subscribed to several societies.

Benjamin Franklin put an end to that shit by buying up all the fire appararus, hiring the firemen and starting a tax-funded fire department. Feel not sad for the fire societies; their risk assessment people formed the insurance industry.

If you've been here a couple of years you might remember a town in Tennessee that recently privatized its fire department...who immediately went to subscriptions and watching non-subscribers' homes burn down. I can't imagine how they get firefighters to do it; it goes beyond logic and common sense that people so ingrained to serve that they'd go to fire school would be able to go to a house fire and just watch.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 05:39 PM

37. And it may end up with them

they exist in (at least) Arizona and Missouri.

The fire department in South Fulton, Tenn. is not privatized, but charges a $75 subscription fee for properties outside the city limits. Surrounding Union County has repeatedly voted down a fire department of its own. Not sure why they don't have that venerable American institution, the volunteer fire department.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 06:05 PM

40. I've been here longer than a couple years, and I remember the incident...

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 09:13 AM

42. I recall that Tennessee town -

and have been wondering how it's doing with a privatized fire dept.

Thanks for the info about earlier history. Ben Franklin was pretty smart!

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:47 PM

2. Good for you! I was recently giving a lot of thought about how we can

all really come closer together (well, most of us, anyway) and work toward common goals. We're as bad as they are at times -- totally discrediting everything they say just because of the source, not taking time to understand why they may have been vulnerable to the fear mongering, how we can ease those fears and mend fences.

We are becoming so divided and exclusionary - I don't think it can go on like this indefinitely.

You did a good job, and I've no doubt you explained your (our) side respectfully and patiently. That's what it's gonna take.

Guess I'd better hit a bar tonight.

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Response to gateley (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:51 PM

4. Thanks, and yes - I can get a bit agitated when confronted by my ideological opposites.

but I decided to really engage, try to reason, have a dialog - we actually got rid of Dem/Repub labels and kept it to issues and impacts. Although I did get rough in spots when needed!

It is a bit like exercizing - my wife, daughters, friends and I are pretty aligned, and of course here at DU as well. It does one good to go out and reaffirm beliefs and be challenged and be able to defend what we believe, and why, directly, face to face.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:51 PM

5. You had yourself a true, red-blooded Amurican there!

Glad you took the time to educate him, sometimes I find it very difficult to be around them, and just don't have the patience I used to.

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Response to AndyA (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:53 PM

6. In that particular bar, in North Raleigh, I had no doubts I was in the minority.

Pretty affluent area, quite Romney voting heavy. My old beat up truck was liberally festooned with DU and Obama stickers, though....looked pretty good in that lot surrounded by the Lexus and BMWs and Benzes!

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:02 PM

7. I so envy people like you.

I avoid discussing politics like the plague with someone on the right. I just don't feel confident enough (yet) to refute all the RWTPs. DU is helping a lot to build my knowledge, but I still feel very uncomfortable when the subject comes up. Luckily, my husband can "do battle" at anytime with anyone (but even then I'm still inwardly squirming).

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Response to narnian60 (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:06 PM

8. If we "do battle" we accomplish nothing. We need the approach NRL took -- person to person

instead of Liberal to Conservative.

It's sooooooooo hard to do that, though!

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Response to gateley (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:20 PM

10. Oh, it's person to person, alright,

but in my eyes it is a battle when the other person is doing nothing but spouting Fox News crapola. Our community is in a red area of SE Texas, so it is tough sometimes.

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Response to narnian60 (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:44 PM

14. it's not easy, and he had to catch me in the right mood - and 8 years of reading

insightful and deep and meaningful stuff at DU really helps (though probably not in Meta! )

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:19 PM

9. where the rubber meets the road

and thanks for the account of your foray into the lair of Fuxed up thinking...

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:43 PM

13. reminds me that we need a local meeting of the minds, do we not?

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 12:23 PM

43. yes if the minds are available

and the roads are not icy if we get the chat going now it could happen

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:24 PM

11. Funny how fast these same people will become liberal when all of a sudden they truly

 

need help.

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:42 PM

12. "funny" is one adjective. I can think of others!

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:42 PM

20. LOL, well am trying to keep it classy.

 

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Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:55 PM

26. They don't become liberal at all, they spout about how THEY have Earned it. All of a sudden, it's

an entitlement they and only they have earned, doncha know?

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Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 03:39 PM

31. Your getting them mixed up with Teapublicans. They are the ones who are entitled.

 

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 01:45 PM

15. No doubt he had to run back home to Fox News

to resupply his depleated talking points.

Good job!

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:02 PM

17. Except that even the military is being privatized

Our most recent incursion into Iraq and Afghanistan was pushed by people who wanted a war for profit. Blackwater and KBR and others were doing contract work, some of which (through Blackwater) involved actual fighting. Our soldiers are getting served by KBR and others and the cost is enormous.

The only reason the military isn't completely privatized already is that people aren't really enthused about joining a company whose main business plan is to go out into the world to stir up a conflict and shoot and get shot. Kinda hard to hire people for that kind of job. But does make ending employment very easy.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:03 PM

18. The military is slowly being privatized

Kellogg Brown and Root, Halliburton Blackwater.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:12 PM

19. That's sounds like a stressfull way to take in a BBall game.

Good job NRaliegh, for being well enough informed to rebutt all of his ignorance. The trouble with face to face talk is, you must be very well informed to be able factcheck and to rebut the ignorance which is so pervasive thanks to the extreme right wing missinformation machine.

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 12:32 PM

44. It helps to have a section of your brain

where soundbites can be stored. An arsenal of rebutts. One-liners. Never drone on or work hard to expand the thought--just execute the appropriate kabosh.

When confronted by some choice morsel of Teabag Truthiness that you haven't pre-rebutted, you just look em in the eye and say...

"Nah, I don't think so."

(Kiss ma rebutt). Channelling Eric Cartman.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:44 PM

21. In a building where I did the landscape and take care of the grounds one of the ....

.... tenets who has office space donated to him by the building owners runs a
charity that has to bring in over a million dollars a year in donated goods and labor
and that charity helps to send "goody packages" to our troops but he is a complete
whack job. He told me straight out last November that now that Obama got re-elected
he will now use the U.N. to smuggle Hamas terrorists into the United States for some
kind of reason. I could have said that is dumbest thing I have ever heard but I just said
that I didn't know that and went back to work. Some people listen to Rush, Glen Beck,
Fox, and others and do not have a clue that what they are hearing or reading is pure
bull crap that is made to poison their minds.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:49 PM

23. Global warming = big government brainwashing????

God when will we let Reagan's big government bullshit rot in the ground with him?

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:50 PM

24. What exactly did he consider would be in our defense?

Would he include energy production, communications, health or electrical grid part of our national security?

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 02:56 PM

27. Great story... n/t

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 03:01 PM

28. i'm the token liberal at my local hang in east county san diego..

and we have an agreement that we never EVER talk politics or religion. there was some discussion on gun control (a term that I never use, opting instead for "common-sense gun laws") shortly after Sandy Hook, and I was quite frankly surprised to find that most of my right-wing friends agreed with me on regulating magazine capacity, universal background checks, and a database of gun owners. other than that, it's all talk about sports, the desert, racing, and motorcycles, which i'm perfectly content to discuss.

P.S. I hope you're a Tarheel fan and not a dookie! Aztecs FIGHT!

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Response to frylock (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 05:35 PM

36. You do realize I will be in your neck of the woods

Soon chasing fire engines and cal fire?

I know exactly what you mean.



Of course your neck of the woods is used rather loosely.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 05:57 PM

38. i live on the west end of the Gorge by MTRP..

and i'm scared to death of fire season! stay safe!

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Response to frylock (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 06:00 PM

39. So am I

Shameless plug

http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/

The Viejas email alerts and the #viejasalerts can help keep you safe. Also download the county's office of emergency management app, ready San Diego.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 06:09 PM

41. thx. will do.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 05:27 PM

34. In Virginia they voted to allow guns in bars; 3 weeks later a shooting occured

 

in the bar down the street from me. I'm sure the repugs that voted for the law were too stupid to even make the connection.

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