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Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:46 PM

'I don't want to go to Disney World anymore': Parents' fury as TSA agents detain their crying

wheelchair-bound daughter, THREE, and confiscate her stuffed animal

The parents of a toddler with spinal bifida are outraged after TSA officials forced their daughter to undergo a series of additional security measures ahead of their flight to Disney World.

Nathan and Annie Forck were flying out of their home state of Missouri on a February 8 flight bound for Orlando, Florida with their wheelchair-bound daughter Lucy and their two other children.

Mrs Forck took a six-minute video detailing their toddler’s cries as she said through tears that she didn’t want to go to Disney World anymore, and is claiming the TSA discriminates against people who use mobility devices.

As Fox News Radio reports, the Forcks were attempting to fly to Orlando to enjoy a family vacation at Disney World and were flying out of Lambert-St Louis International Airport.

Though they got through the TSA security checkpoint without incident, a TSA agent pulled the family aside to screen Lucy’s wheelchair further for a pat down and swabbing her mobility device.

Mrs Forck pulled out her smart phone and began recording the whole event, against the TSA agent’s request.

‘It’s illegal to do that,’ the female agent is heard saying.

Mrs Forcks responds: ‘You can’t touch my daughter unless I can record it,’ and later adds: ‘The problem is, I don’t allow anyone to touch my little daughter.’

Throughout the argument between the mother and the TSA agent, Lucy can be heard crying, apparently confused at what exactly was going on.

Her stuffed animal, ‘Lamby,’ had been scanned via X-ray and had not been returned to her.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281769/Parents-fury-TSA-detains-wheelchair-bound-daughter-3-theyre-trying-fly-Disney-World-family-vacation.html#ixzz2LYabeS2D

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Reply 'I don't want to go to Disney World anymore': Parents' fury as TSA agents detain their crying (Original post)
Tony_FLADEM Feb 2013 OP
newfie11 Feb 2013 #1
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #93
siligut Feb 2013 #2
AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #158
graham4anything Feb 2013 #3
bullwinkle428 Feb 2013 #8
Earth_First Feb 2013 #9
graham4anything Feb 2013 #15
Earth_First Feb 2013 #16
graham4anything Feb 2013 #19
bowens43 Feb 2013 #22
Bake Feb 2013 #23
graham4anything Feb 2013 #28
noiretextatique Feb 2013 #67
GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #119
Drale Feb 2013 #30
graham4anything Feb 2013 #33
Drale Feb 2013 #38
graham4anything Feb 2013 #49
Drale Feb 2013 #61
BlueJazz Feb 2013 #70
notadmblnd Feb 2013 #108
Union Label Feb 2013 #145
Aerows Feb 2013 #150
graham4anything Feb 2013 #163
Drale Feb 2013 #65
graham4anything Feb 2013 #114
markpkessinger Feb 2013 #75
graham4anything Feb 2013 #78
sarisataka Feb 2013 #80
graham4anything Feb 2013 #87
sarisataka Feb 2013 #90
graham4anything Feb 2013 #100
sarisataka Feb 2013 #107
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #86
GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #112
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #51
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #32
AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #156
Xipe Totec Feb 2013 #36
Warpy Feb 2013 #60
graham4anything Feb 2013 #72
Warpy Feb 2013 #73
alphafemale Feb 2013 #111
Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #140
EOTE Feb 2013 #64
raging_moderate Feb 2013 #81
ET Awful Feb 2013 #98
X_Digger Feb 2013 #99
Arkana Feb 2013 #109
Captain Stern Feb 2013 #126
Bay Boy Feb 2013 #84
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GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #113
Bake Feb 2013 #20
graham4anything Feb 2013 #41
okieinpain Feb 2013 #42
EOTE Feb 2013 #58
Logical Feb 2013 #135
musette_sf Feb 2013 #153
DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #155
Dragonfli Feb 2013 #44
DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #157
sarisataka Feb 2013 #55
Romulox Feb 2013 #27
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #35
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #40
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #52
LanternWaste Feb 2013 #128
leveymg Feb 2013 #4
Earth_First Feb 2013 #14
Hestia Feb 2013 #25
Moonwalk Feb 2013 #105
jberryhill Feb 2013 #142
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #47
Marblehead Feb 2013 #5
hedgehog Feb 2013 #17
Drale Feb 2013 #50
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hedgehog Feb 2013 #146
Logical Feb 2013 #136
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #6
winter is coming Feb 2013 #26
RedSpartan Feb 2013 #7
Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #122
Earth_First Feb 2013 #10
X_Digger Feb 2013 #104
treestar Feb 2013 #11
Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #12
treestar Feb 2013 #13
Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #24
treestar Feb 2013 #166
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #31
graham4anything Feb 2013 #54
noiretextatique Feb 2013 #68
Romulox Feb 2013 #29
davidn3600 Feb 2013 #46
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #57
jberryhill Feb 2013 #143
DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #162
LanternWaste Feb 2013 #129
treestar Feb 2013 #165
DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #159
avaistheone1 Feb 2013 #18
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #21
AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #160
Cleita Feb 2013 #34
Jennicut Feb 2013 #74
Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #91
ellie Feb 2013 #37
Bay Boy Feb 2013 #94
ellie Feb 2013 #133
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Taverner Feb 2013 #39
cali Feb 2013 #43
MadHound Feb 2013 #45
cali Feb 2013 #53
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #66
MadHound Feb 2013 #69
noiretextatique Feb 2013 #71
MindPilot Feb 2013 #88
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #48
Politicalboi Feb 2013 #56
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #59
Nine Feb 2013 #79
sarisataka Feb 2013 #83
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #101
X_Digger Feb 2013 #106
hughee99 Feb 2013 #62
GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #116
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FarCenter Feb 2013 #63
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backscatter712 Feb 2013 #125
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Nine Feb 2013 #148
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #149
Nine Feb 2013 #151
AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #161
graham4anything Feb 2013 #164
randome Feb 2013 #120
derby378 Feb 2013 #137
markpkessinger Feb 2013 #77
Kurska Feb 2013 #85
JEB Feb 2013 #96
AzDar Feb 2013 #97
Initech Feb 2013 #102
deurbano Feb 2013 #110
Jersey Devil Feb 2013 #115
lpbk2713 Feb 2013 #121
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #124
Brigid Feb 2013 #123
green for victory Feb 2013 #130
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HockeyMom Feb 2013 #127
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Logical Feb 2013 #134
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Logical Feb 2013 #147
railsback Feb 2013 #152
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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:54 PM

1. This going to far

Unbelievable that this can happen in this so called free country.

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Response to newfie11 (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:44 PM

93. This going to far

I assume you mean

This IS going TOO far.

In which case I would agree.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:56 PM

2. TSA agents have no sense

And the stories just continue to mount up.

Sending buxom females through the scanners twice

Repeatedly searching wheelchairs bound patrons to the point of idiocy

Roughly fondled junk

This is from 2010 and nothing has changed, though I understand they have stopped using the scanners?

The TSA’s notoriously bad behavior is quickly becoming the biggest hot-button topic in America since the first round of gay marriages took place several years ago, and for good reason. The people employed by the Transportation Security Administration, commonly referred to as “agents,” as though they were educated professionals such as the men and women deployed by the FBI, are all-too-often little more than minimum-wage thugs. They frequently harass innocent travelers, leaving them feeling insulted, molested, humiliated and degraded past the point that any law-abiding citizen should have to endure. Nearly anyone who has gone through an airport security gate in the last decade will likely have stories of overly-rude TSA workers, or worse, but these are 10 truly outrageous instances where the TSA has simply gone too far. 




http://rawjustice.com/2010/11/22/10-of-the-most-outrageous-tsa-horror-stories/

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Response to siligut (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:57 PM

158. If Obama wanted to do something about this, he could choose to do so.

 

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:02 PM

3. Another person with an agenda and a camera just happened to be there.

 

actually, wouldn't the reverse be true?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:28 PM

8. Yes, because cell phones with video recording capability are such a rarity these days.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:30 PM

9. Hey! There's our resident authoritarian!

I just KNEW you'd chime in on this one!

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:49 PM

15. A billion people & 4 have gone through airports...4 make complaints with cameras

 

what about the other billion?

Wish I had a good percentage like they do.

After all, what if there was a gun hidden or box cutter hidden and something happened?
One can't play favorites

My mom has 2 artificial hips and she has to go through a separate search everytime she goes.
And she don't mind.

And she is someone who was forced by the Nazi's to leave her homewhen she was a little girl.

Maybe if they had better check points prior to 9-11, the 19 might have been detected.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:53 PM

16. You also support red light cameras, blanket CCTV and drone technology...

I've got your number, pal.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:02 PM

19. Benjamin Franklin said "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

 


The WTC fell. 3000 people died. I come from NYC. The economy of the world stopped because OBL and his henchmen did what they did.

As Benjamin Franklin said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
He was talking about taking a few minutes more going through an airport with the statement.

And yes, I am for drones, as they according to Richard Clarke"Are the most humane form of warfare".

If only a drone was around to drop on Hitler, 2 weeks prior to his starting his diabolical plot to kill 20 million people. Even if a few collateral had been killed along with Hitler, 20 million would have been saved.

Whereas 20 million were killed. (including warmonger General Eisenhower taking out the POWs after the end of the war).

And Franklin also said "this is theirs if they can keep it", and he meant doing anything needed to prevent terrorists from doing what they did on 9-11.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:09 PM

22. you really think frisking a crying little girl in a wheelchair would have prevented this?

wow

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:10 PM

23. I don't think you have any clue what Franklin meant.

There were no airports in Franklin's day. 9/11 was 200 years + in the future.

Don't you presume to konw what Franklin meant. You obviously don't know much about history, or democracy, or Franklin in particular.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #23)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:18 PM

28. how dripping ironic this is-

 

In many posts you have said, some in response to my anti-NRA posts, that you support your meaning of the 2nd amendment interpretation

I am sure Benny didn't anticipate some extremist shooting up a supermarket, movie theatre
or school.

You have your interpretation of the 2nd, I will interpret Ben Franklin any which way I choose.

I also know exactly what Thomas Jefferson meant when he said all MEN are created equal.
Yet forgot 14% of the Population in the United States that is black, and 52% of the people who are women.
And he said what he did ON PURPOSE.

So I do indeed presume to know that Ben Franklin said anything goes when there is a war on terrorism going on.

Going to the airport is a luxury, and people know the rules.
No one forces them to go.
I myself have driven many times from NY to Florida.
It is not much further to go from Missouri to Florida
ACTUALLY, I just looked it up
It is 850 miles.
When I drive it is 1100 miles.
So it is easy enough not to go to the airport if one chooses they don't wish to go through the checkpoint.
Me, I am happy that what happened on 9-11 won't happen again.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:51 PM

67. Going to the airport is a luxury

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:35 PM

119. What happened on 9-11 could happen AT a checkpoint.

And if you drive from NY to FL you're in the Constitution Free Zone. Good luck with that.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:21 PM

30. Franklin also said

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" and this is trading our freedom for temporary security on an airplane.

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Response to Drale (Reply #30)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:26 PM

33. Not letting a terrorist on a plane is permanent security.

 

Because on 9-11,
19 people under the orders of OBL permanently damaged the USA by having 4 planes hijacked, two of which went into the WTC, one went into the Pentagon, and most likely the 4th was going to, had it been on time, directly hit the Capitol building and asssassinate every single
senator and congressperson in the building at the time.

We now have permanent security, not temporary one.

Freedom was taken away 9-11.

or as Kris Kristofferson wrote "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose".
When one is dead, they are free.

Until then, we have everything to lose and no freedom if the terrorists take it away.

Not to mention the consittution in wartime gives a president any and all right to do whatever.

Ask Lincoln.
And almost everybody thinks Lincoln is the #1 president of all time.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:28 PM

38. Because a three year old disabled girl with her family

is a terrorist. Yeap I'd rather die in a terrorist attack than have to deal with the intrusive, sexually molesting and uncaring TSA.

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Response to Drale (Reply #38)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:37 PM

49. Bad people have planted bad things on kids and on or in objects

 

Very easy for someone to put bend over and put something on the bottom of the wheelchair
and nobody would notice.

If one let's their guard down once, that is when disaster happens.

And you use some adjectives in your answer, none of which apply to this.

I find insulting the union workers who work 9 to 5 doing a thankless job and a boring job
not nice.

Maybe there is a rotten apple in the bunch, but then any profession has a bad apple.

99% of the people are hard working. 1% or less rotten apples, shouldn't smear the 99%.
(especially as they are union workers.)

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:47 PM

61. This is a joke right?

Ever heard of One person can ruin it for everyone? That is true in every sense and it is doubly true people those people have the power to have you arrested for no reason at all or to sexually assault you because they "suspect" you might be carrying something. With great power comes great responsibility and the TSA has shown they do not have the responsibility to have the power.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:54 PM

70. I have to say, I'm with you on this deal. The girl cried...well, gosh amighty. I do believe that...

...I've seen children cry a few times in my life. (Like 50,976,436 times).
And they've cried over the simplest %$%^# things you've ever heard of...like not getting a certain bag of cookies at the store.

This poor mistreated Lamb had to be searched and she cried for like OMG...9-10 minutes !!

Oh...the inhumanity...you know, just screw the airport security...let people ride wheel-chairs into airports any time they want and when the fucking plane explodes @ 37,000 ft...we, at least, can say "It's a nasty thing but we have to think of the children.

Give-Me-A-Break

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:29 PM

108. Really? Can you cite any instances in this country?

I'm sitting here wondering what it could possibly be like to live in such fear- that one would think a terrorist would strap a bomb to their wheelchair bound toddler and blow up a plane. Or is it fear that a 3 yr old would hijack the plane and fly it into a building that make people willing to defend the TSA's despicable actions?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:52 PM

145. Theres no reason to swab anything for bombs

There are detectors that are so sensitive they don't need to contact anything, I did a fast search and came up with this. http://gs.flir.com/detection/explosives/fido
So I'm sure TSA can get anything they need to be non invasive.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:10 PM

150. Oh for heaven's sake

I don't even understand why we do this crap if someone is in the US going to a different location in the US. It makes no damn sense to me. International flights I could see, but frisking a 3 year old that is in a wheelchair?

At some point, it's time to say enough is enough.

Exactly how many terrorists have these TSA procedures caught? None.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #150)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 03:00 AM

163. The more important fact is-SINCE 9-11, NO PLANE HAS EXPLODED.

 

And that's the way it is, 2013, USA.

who knows without security, how many would have tried.

If it saved ONE death, it is worth it. If it saved one million deaths, it is worth it.

We know certain facts- bombs kill. Guns kill. Bullets kill.

We know 3000 people died on 9-11. FACT.

We know 20 million died in WW2. FACT.

We know 0 people have died from explosions in airplanes in the USA since 9-11. FACT.

Sounds to me like it's working.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:49 PM

65. Also "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"

actually means when all you have left is your freedom you have the responsibility and the ability to put everything aside and fight tooth and nail and die if need be to protect the last thing you have, your freedom. Way to twist song lyrics to try and prove your point.

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Response to Drale (Reply #65)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:54 PM

114. Ah, NO. Being free means having NOTHING. With responsiblity comes SOMETHING

 

and here are Kristofferson's own words
Freedom actually means NOTHING.

the important 2 paragraphs-
http://performingsongwriter.com/kris-kristofferson-bobby-mcgee/

“The title came from Fred Foster. He called one night and said, ‘I’ve got a song title for you. It’s “Me and Bobby McKee.”’ I thought he said ‘McGee.’ Bobby McKee was the secretary of Boudleaux Bryant, who was in the same building with Fred. Then Fred says, ‘The hook is that Bobby McKee is a she. How does that grab you?’ (Laughs) I said, ‘Uh, I’ll try to write it, but I’ve never written a song on assignment.’ So it took me a while to think about

SNIP

“For some reason, I thought of La Strada, this Fellini film, and a scene where Anthony Quinn is going around on this motorcycle and Giulietta Masina is the feeble-minded girl with him, playing the trombone. He got to the point where he couldn’t put up with her anymore and left her by the side of the road while she was sleeping. Later in the film, he sees this woman hanging out the wash and singing the melody that the girl used to play on the trombone. He asks, ‘Where did you hear that song?’ And she tells him it was this little girl who had showed up in town and nobody knew where she was from, and later she died. That night, Quinn goes to a bar and gets in a fight. He’s drunk and ends up howling at the stars on the beach. To me, that was the feeling at the end of ‘Bobby McGee.’ The two-edged sword that freedom is. He was free when he left the girl, but it destroyed him. That’s where the line ‘Freedom’s just another name for nothing left to lose’ came from.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:00 PM

75. Name a single terrorist the TSA has intercepted using these measures n/t

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #75)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:15 PM

78. That's a question that can never be answered because...it's a red herring question.

 

How does one know how many 1000s of terrorists were stopped who knew the security was so good, that it would be impossible to get their diabolical plot working?

No terrorist can do what happened on 9-11 again, THANKS to the new security in place.

They did it on 9-11, because no one was prepared.

Hence, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Much like Timid McCoward in Oklahoma City and the 1st WTC attempt led to it being impossible in sophisticated cities to drive underneath a mega building with no security checkpoints.

And those pretty little plants outside buildings in concrete containers block cars from jumping a curb in a big city and going through the doors.

So, how can one name something that the TSA stopped by preventing it from happening in the first place.

It is a red herring faux question. IMHO

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #78)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:22 PM

80. May I use your answer

in gun debates on how many crimes were stopped by guns? It seems the same would apply.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #80)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:37 PM

87. If you are talking about law enforcement stopping crimes, sure. HOWEVER-

 

if you are talking about a private person well, that would need some qualifiers to make this the statement in synch with the TSA and other forms of national security.

Because if someone is in a private home and has a gun, no one would know the gun was there

UNLESS there was a neon sticker on the outside saying so.

If that is the case, then it is the NEON STICKER not the gun itself.

And anyone can get a NEON STICKER.

Funny thing is, on prior arguments in the gungeon (where all my posts were anti-NRA, anti-gun,
none of the people there want to advertise they have a gun

which I never understood (until I realized that wasn't why they wanted a gun).

So it doesn't apply, sorry that won't work.

However, indeed, police do stop criminals, and terrorists have been stopped by both security and by the knowledge of security.

It is why now, most international terroristic events happen elsewhere and not in the USA.
BUT almost all mass shootings are by terrorists HERE in the USA who are Americans.

So it depends which angle you are posing here.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #87)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:41 PM

90. Though I am not personally a fan

those who promote open carry say that it does prevent crime. The criminal can see the gun and so will choose to go elsewhere.

It is in the same vein to say a negative cannot be proven therefore the statements by the OC proponents are true; they do stop crime, just cannot prove it.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #90)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:54 PM

100. However, someone seeing a person NOT a cop, with a gun, can have a heart attack

 

after seeing the gun

Therefore, a question needs to be asked-
how many people have had a heart attack seeing someone that wasn't law enforcement approach them with a gun in full view.

I know my heart would race. Especially if the person looks like those that look like 99% of the mass shooters in America.

AND a person with an open carry would be a later easy target for a terrorist to steal that gun by coming up behind him and neutralizing him (or her) and stealing the gun.

And if someone with an open gun goes into an airport-well, they better ahead of time make sure security knows it is legal.

Normally private people with guns do not save anything.

Legal guns do more harm than good 99% of the time.

And having legal guns in a movie theatre does not stop someone from killing in a theatre.
Only thing that would stop it would be NO legal or illegal guns.

Again, to answer the reverse question is not the same as authority.
Because with authority you have order and laws.
With open carry, one doesn't know if one is legal or illegal, lawabiding or criminal, and there is no time to make a decision.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #100)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:23 PM

107. I would venture the number of heart attacks

from seeing a person carrying a gun is the same as is the same as the number of terrorists who knock a person over their head and take their gun; it is hovering around zero.

I can agree that bring a gun openly into an airport is legal but unwise.

Overall I have no issues with authority- a Libertarian called me a nazi- as long as the authority is used for the benefit of the People, not against the people. {my capitalization is not a mistake} We cannot have perfect liberty and I do not believe that is what B. Franklin meant; it is when we give up so much liberty that we are no longer free, and do not oppose it nor even recognize it, that we become despicable and deserve neither. I think we are much closer to that line than many think.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:30 PM

86. And can you guess what the one thing the TSA has never prevented from getting on a plane?

That's right. A fucking Terrorist.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:42 PM

112. We lost the "War On Terror" with the passage of the "Patriot(sic) Act"

The terrorists have achieved their goal of making it more expensive, more inconvenient, more annoying and more difficult to travel.

We now have a "Constitution Free Zone (TM)" within one hundred miles of our borders. Air, land and sea. Anyone, and that means YOU, can be stopped anytime, for no reason by the CBP and/or the TSA (who now want to get their grubby little blue gloves all over your carry-on TRAIN and BUS baggage and on commuter rail) "out of an abundance of caution". No warrant, no nothing - "Pull over and we're going to search your car, baggage, person." And they don't even have to give a reason.

The TSA hasn't stopped "terrorists on aircraft", reinforced, locked cockpit doors and heightened passenger awareness have. The TSA clerks (they're not "officers" BTW despite their self styled titles) confiscate snow globes, breast milk and yogurt and make believe that they are a first line defense. It's security theatre and a money eating boon doggle and is getting Americans used to the security/surveillance state.

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Response to Drale (Reply #30)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:39 PM

51. My thoughts exactly. n/t

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:22 PM

32. He also said that those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither. n/t

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:49 PM

156. Bush probably said that as well.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:27 PM

36. Benjamin Franklin also said "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."nt

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:47 PM

60. Franklin also said

"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security."

These TSA agents shelved their common sense in favor of an arbitrary protocol. They were in the wrong.

I'm sick of these people and I'm sick of the scared little rabbits who support them no matter what kind of outrages they perpetrate on people in no position to fight back.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #60)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:55 PM

72. YOu can't pick and choose a quote. All of Franklin's quotes apply to stopping terrorists

 

Having some extremist shoot up a movie theatre, or supermarket or hijack airplanes
means MY liberty and freedom and my right to peaceful assembly is forever gone.

Having a way to allow my liberty and freedom is what Franklin meant.

Of course,this is America, and this is a free country, and this political discussion board is
free and google searched worldwide, and we can all disagree, as we are free.

So one can't just choose to parse 1/2 a Franklin quote, without applying all of them as I have done.

A few second delay at the airport is a small price to pay and everyone going on a plane knows it, so if one doesn't want to, there is no constitutional right to go on a plane at all.

Personally, I wish we had the great security Mossad has at the Israeli airport. Generally considered the best in the world now. 9-11 would never have happened the way it did
on El-Al.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #72)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:57 PM

73. I'm sorry you live your life so frightened by imaginary terrorists.

I'm more deeply frightened by the people who would throw away all the liberty that made this country such a great place to live because they are afraid of bogeymen.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #73)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:40 PM

111. Custard cried for a nice safe cage. nt

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Response to Warpy (Reply #60)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:12 PM

140. +1000 nt

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:49 PM

64. The same Franklin who said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary

safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

So it can pretty safely be assumed that Franklin would have despised you.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:22 PM

81. Benjamin Franklin also said:

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Nice try.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:49 PM

98. What Franklin meant by his "if they can keep it" statement was NOT

regarding terrorism or anything of the sort.

What he said was in response to a query: He was asked ""Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" He replied "A republic, if you can keep it.

What he meant was not "do whatever it takes to prevent terrorists from attacking". In fact, I'd wager that terrorism wasn't even part of this thought process.

What he was referring to was allowing the republic to regress and for the freedoms that republic protected to vanish.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:51 PM

99. He also said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,...

...deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:31 PM

109. Franklin also said that those who would give up their liberties to attain temporary safety

deserver neither liberty nor safety.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:42 PM

126. But Ben Franklin didn't say...

..."A pound of prevention is worth an ounce of cure". That's what this was.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:27 PM

84. Yes he is a marked man

marked as a Democrat that is.

Drone Technology- BHO
red light cameras- most any large city and likely to have a Dem mayor
CCTV- I assume is surveillance cameras; see above

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:45 PM

95. And 'stop and frisk', searches at state borders, etc etc..

There is no state power that g4a opposes.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #95)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:44 PM

113. That's because we have always been at war with Eastasia, citizen.

Now get ready for the two minutes of hate.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:08 PM

20. "She don't mind?"

Really? Good for her.

I'm glad "she don't mind."

The rest of us do.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:32 PM

41. You do not speak for me, therefore you statement "the rest of us do" is faux.

 

You speak ZERO for me. So you can't say the rest of us do.

And I count about 1/2 the posts on this thread do not agree with the premise of the thread.

Again, ask the billion or more who have gone through and not complained or filmed the event.
Seems none of them had any problem with it.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:33 PM

42. some lady got drugs implanted in her

breast. I figured the tsa could due anything they wanted after that.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:46 PM

58. Yes, 4 people have made complaints with cameras.

Not several thousand. I've got a piece of advice for you, it helps to think just a little bit before posting. That way, your words won't seem so incredibly asinine.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:59 PM

135. Please list the number of bombs and terrorists TSA has caught. Send me a link. n-t

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:23 PM

153. All of the laws and procedures in place on September 10, 2001

would have, if they had been followed, detected every one of them.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:43 PM

155. Hey sporto, looks like the TSA apologized. Your turn.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:34 PM

44. The little girl works for Ralph Nader, Her evil agenda is obvious, cut the G a little

slack, he knows more about the conspiracy than anyone.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #44)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:53 PM

157. Edit That Name out of your post...it drives G4A nuts

He's hated Ralph Nader forever....well, at lesst since Nader sunk The Maine and kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:43 PM

55. No intrusion is too big

if it is done by the government. Lives were undoubtedly saved by taking that little girls toy away.

We should ban cameras; they inhibit the Noble's actions to protect us.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:17 PM

27. This is a disgusting post. nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:27 PM

35. A disgusting post from a heartless authoritarian. n/t

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:31 PM

40. By all means, keep blaming the victim.

Next, you were going to say that the young woman deserved to be raped because she was "leading the guy on".

Authoritarian trash like you make me sick!

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:41 PM

52. Didn't you say the same thing about RagingInMiami?

Or was it one of your friends?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:52 PM

128. I have no doubt you feel compelled to attribute an ill-defined agenda to the mother

I have no doubt you feel compelled to attribute an ill-defined agenda to the mother to better validate your own opinions...

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:05 PM

4. Sounds like the TSA agent never touched the child and the parents freaked, anyway.

I'd say the parents overreaction and hysterical tone is really the source of the child's upset.

I know that people think that airport screening has gone too far, but I have no problem with large objects like wheelchairs being quickly checked for traces of explosive chemicals.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:47 PM

14. Seems to me like the child was upset at their stuffed toy not being returned...

The article clearly states that the toy "Lamby" had not been returned AFTER being screened and the child got upset.

The entire situation may have been avoided if the TSA agents acted in a more compassionate, considerate manner instead of the authoritarian power trip that many of these thugs seem to have.

I have absolutely no understanding how this is in any way shape or form a set up or the parent's fault.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:16 PM

25. Really - a 3 y/o's wheelchair, in attendance with family, might have explosives?

In what universe?

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Response to Hestia (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:19 PM

105. um, THIS universe. If I were a terrorist and I knew that TSA agents were giving a pass to--

--3 year olds in wheelchairs, I'd instantly use one to get my bomb on board. The three-year old is, after all, working for a higher cause in this--or so any suicide bomber would think. And remember that we had bombers try to put bombs in shoes and underwear before this. Why not a little girl's wheelchair?

Look, the TSA agents should be more compassionate, sensitive and polite to such situations. That we can agree on totally. But we DO live in a world where fanatics train little kids to fight in wars--hell to carry signs and protest gays at funerals come to that. Where little kids wired with explosives have been sent out to blow up soldiers. A terrorist is in a war, and anyone and anything can be used against the enemy--the end justifies the means.

Putting it another way, if I can think of it, so can they--and they certainly have and they certainly will. So while we, the TSA agents, etc. might well look at this particular little girl and her family and think "highly unlikely," is it worth taking a chance? That this could have been handed better we can agree on--there really is no reason to have upset the family or reduced the kid to tears. There are always ways to make a delay or requirement easier, less unpleasant.

But would you want to be the TSA agent who said, "I let that little girl in the wheelchair go unchecked..." after the bomb explodes on a plane and hundreds die? Including the little girl in the wheelchair? I know, I know, it all seems so unlikely, so over-the-top for a slim chance. But TSA can't take even that slim chance. They really don't dare given the consequences if they're wrong.

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Response to Hestia (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:33 PM

142. In a universe where someone else has put them there...

...because 3 year old's wheelchairs aren't checked.

Duh.

Drug smugglers use baby diapers - on real live babies.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:35 PM

47. Another victim-blamer.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:23 PM

5. how many terrorists

have they caught?

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Response to Marblehead (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:57 PM

17. Nice of you to ask .......

http://blog.tsa.gov/


Maybe not terrorists, but not things I want to be sharing a plane with!

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:38 PM

50. But very few if any of those objects

were found on a person and if they were found on a person, they were found by the scanner and molesting everyone is not required. The scanners do a pretty damn good job at finding stuff in peoples bags and if they have and and want to go through my bag they can but if anything is missing theres going to be hell to pay. I just don't want to be sexually assaulted by an untrained minimum wage worker looking to assert the little bit of authority they have in their lives.

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Response to Drale (Reply #50)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:39 PM

89. Yeah! Because minimum wage workers are the scum of the Earth!

Is that what you were trying to say?

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #89)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:43 PM

92. No but the more you pay someone

especially in a hard and stressful job, the more they will care about the job and the better they will do that job. A great many of the TSA agents seemed to have once worked at the DMV and don't seem to really care about what they are doing.

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Response to Drale (Reply #92)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:56 PM

146. Mock one set of government employees by denigrating another set -

good one!

You do know that we the people own the government, don't you? If government employees are underpaid, who is responsible?

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 08:00 PM

136. LOL, finding a gun, knife, weapon does not mean discovering a terrorist. What a reach! n-t

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:26 PM

6. What's sad is watching the TSA agents ask an elderly person in a wheelchair

to get up and walk through a scanner. I've seen it several times and you can often see the anguish in their eyes. Their job requires them to ask the near-crippled person to hobble through a security gate, and nobody but a real monster would enjoy that kind of thing.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:17 PM

26. +1. My mom's had a stroke. She uses a rolling walker, more for balance than support.

Sometimes, the TSA people have been really nice... they've offered her two wooden canes to make the trip through the scanner, and taken the time to be sure she's steady on the canes. Other times, there was nothing: she was expected to walk through without any assistance/support and hurry it up, lady.

She's decided not to fly anymore.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:27 PM

7. Would be nice to see Disney comp them their trip.

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Response to RedSpartan (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:49 PM

122. Did I just see "disney" and "comp" in the same sentence?

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:34 PM

10. "It's illegal to do that" -No, it isn't.

How is this STILL an issue.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:18 PM

104. Too many people take the word of someone in a uniform? That's my guess. n/t

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:37 PM

11. Sounds like the mother was trying to create an incident

And using the daughter to do it.

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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:41 PM

12. Yeah, it was all a plot to make TSA look like stupid thugs.

I guess it worked.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:43 PM

13. Some people need attention

And we all have a chance at our 15 minutes.

There are plenty of posters like yourself perfectly willing to expect trouble and let expectation lead so it becomes a reality.



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Response to treestar (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:11 PM

24. And some people just want to go on their way without unnecessary hassles.

"There are plenty of posters like yourself..."

You don't really know anything about me, do you?

The TSA has apologized for the incident.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 08:04 AM

166. Well if not you, I've seen plenty of posts

about how awful it is that the TSA does anything to make sure flights are safe. They are called totalitarian jackboots for doing that job. Some rush to condemn them entirely for every bad incident. Their apologizing doesn't mean they did anything wrong or that they are jackbooted thugs trying to harm disabled little girls. It just means somebody created another incident to complain about. Did they really "touch" this "little girl?" as they are accused of in this instance?

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Response to treestar (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:21 PM

31. Some little children need their stuffed animal back

And not to be harassed like they are the Wheelchair Bomber. Oh, wait, there's never been one of those.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:42 PM

54. Because security insures that won't happen.

 

Letting the guard down will make this happen.
Very easy for someone in a place like an airport to put something on the bottom of the chair
(much like people can put something without the owner knowing, in a suitcase, but heavy security screens all luggage now).

An ounce of prevention has probably saved millions of lives.

Because of course, what is never known are all those who decided what they wanted to do can't happen because of security, so it never happens and of course, that isn't tracked as nothing happened.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #54)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:53 PM

68. your brand of paranoia

is a part of the problem, not the solution.

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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:19 PM

29. Another disgusting post. nt

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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:35 PM

46. The courts have maintained that recording of law enforcement activity is NOT illegal

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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:46 PM

57. I know, how dare she challenge authorities while they bully her child.



What is it with police-state fanbois here?

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #57)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:35 PM

143. How about comforting the child instead of standing back with a camera?

What is it with the obvious non-parents here?

When my kids were three, and something upset them and made them cry - which is hardly rare in all kinds of situations with three year olds - I don't think I ever reacted by reaching for a camera.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #143)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:05 PM

162. This parent disagrees with you

Please don't act as though your parenthood status automatically make you the authority on this question.

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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:55 PM

129. What specifically leads you to that conclusion?

What specifically leads you to that conclusion?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #129)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 08:02 AM

165. This part

Mrs Forcks responds: ‘You can’t touch my daughter unless I can record it,’ and later adds: ‘The problem is, I don’t allow anyone to touch my little daughter.’

Throughout the argument between the mother and the TSA agent, Lucy can be heard crying, apparently confused at what exactly was going on.


Why didn't she comfort the child instead of letting her cry on for the whole time? And was the agent was touching the child? The agent is being accused of touching the child when we don't know if the agent even made any move to do that or tried to. The way she uses the word "little" daughter. Like she's trying to emphasize that to make sure her argument has the best emotional impact. She's busy arguing with the silly agent rather than comforting the child. Busy taking video rather than telling the child it is OK. So as to have minutes of the poor child crying.



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Response to treestar (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:01 PM

159. What led you to this most impressive theory?

They were already through security when the mother launched her wily plot, causing the TSA to change their minds and search the girl and her wheelchair again. Mom's plan was so damned diabolical and sneaky that the TSA has now apologized to the family. Thanks for getting to the bottom of this, Dr. Einstein. And remember, the victim is almost always wrong.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:57 PM

18. Another reminder why it is so unpleasant to fly these days.

Too many reports I am afraid of TSA agents behaving badly.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:09 PM

21. The TSA has issued an apology

ST. LOUIS -- The Transportation Security Administration is apologizing after agents at Lambert Airport in St. Louis sought to screen a 3-year-old girl in a wheelchair.

The mother of the child shot video that caused a stir in social media after it was posted online.

The incident happened Feb. 8. The girl and her family were about to fly to Disney World in Orlando, Fla. A TSA agent asked to pat down the 3-year-old and screen her wheelchair. The agent initially told the girl’s mother, Annie Schulte, it was illegal to tape the activity.

On the video, the little girl, Lucy, who has spina bifida, is seen crying.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/TSA-apologies-for-screening-3-year-old-in-wheelchair-at-Lambert-192309991.html

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:01 PM

160. If the TSA was genuinely regretful over the incident, the agency should fire the individuals.

 

Start at the top.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:27 PM

34. Not to detract from the outrageousness of the incident, but isn't three a little young

for that kind of excursion? I mean is she really going to have memories or even know what she's experiencing? I sort of noticed that my friends never did the Disneyland trip before the age of five unless they were forced to lug a toddler or baby around while giving an older child their Disneyland trip. I personally wouldn't want to have a three year old on a plane, especially one with special needs, unless it was absolutely necessary like going to the funeral of a grandparent or something like that.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:58 PM

74. My husband and I took my 2 and 3 year old daughters to Disney World 5 years ago.

Partly from an offer to pay part of the trip by my mother in law. We all had a great time but it was exhausting lugging around the stroller on the plane and the luggage from the plane to the hotel. My kids did very good on the plane, better then me (I have flown twice round trip and hated both times, I have extreme fear of heights/flying). They colored, played with some small toys I bought them and drank juice during taking off and landing. They were kind of in awe of the whole thing. We drove two years ago and I enjoyed that better despite driving from Connecticut all the way to Florida. It was an adventure.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:42 PM

91. She will probably cry again when she finds out

that Mickey Mouse is a seven-foot tall rat.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:28 PM

37. I was flying out of Boston

and my front was enthusiastically patted down by a female TSA agent. I guess she didn't think my boobs could be that big, but they are. Now she knows they are.

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Response to ellie (Reply #37)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:44 PM

94. Is a second opinion needed?

Hmmm... maybe I would make a good TSA screener.

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #94)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:55 PM

133. Hee hee

I'll make you a deal. If you ever find yourself working for the TSA and I am in Boston, I will come through your line.

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Response to ellie (Reply #133)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 08:28 PM

138. Yippee!

Except I'll probably have to do that in my next life.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:29 PM

39. Damn, I feel safer already!

 

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:34 PM

43. Daily Mail and mostly bullshit. The TSA agent was wrong about the recording but

she was perfectly polite and patient with the snotty woman, who to my eyes, after watching the whole vid, had an agenda. Furthermore, "Lamby" was in the child's lap at throughout most of the vid and a the end of it.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:34 PM

45. What's almost amazing as the TSA's thuggery are some of the responses on this thread.

 

Posters blaming the victim, the victim's family, embracing authoritarianism, and so many willing to give up their civil liberties for the illusion of safety.

A sad sign of how this country, and DU has declined. I remember when TSA first started exhibiting their jack booted approach to security, and almost to the last person, people here on DU decried their actions. Now we have a large number of people embracing them. My, my, how things have changed around here.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:41 PM

53. Not trusting the Daily Mail? How stupid.

I'm completely against the heavy handed TSA crap, but there's something here that just doesn't smell right. Call it my sense that these are entitled white people acting imperious with a low paying black working person.

and it's a crock of dog shit, that things have changed around here. They really haven't. It's the same as its ever been.

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Response to cali (Reply #53)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:54 PM

69. Well, is this a more acceptable source for you?

 

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/girl-wheelchair-detained-tsa-caught-tape-18555238?pt=BureoF2GVB

I understand your distrust over the Daiy Mail, it's a rag. But this story is all over the media, and they are pretty much all saying the same thing.

Furthermore, I understand the mother's concern, TSA agents have been busted multiple times for groping adults and children, and frankly I wouldn't let anybody I didn't know touch my kid without a video record either.

I don't know what you're smelling, but the only thing that I smell is, once again, the authoritarian hand of the TSA.

Oh, and the TSA pretty much admitted they did wrong when they apologized to the family(see the post upthread).

Yes, things have changed around here. Go dig around in the archives, compare this thread with the early threads concerning TSA thuggery. You'll see a lot has changed.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:55 PM

71. a legion of paranoid freaks

who believe harrassing a little girl in a wheelchair is somehow making them safe from TERRA! absolutely disgusting.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:37 PM

88. Couldn't agree more! n/t

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:36 PM

48. Wow, I'm so glad the TSA heroes stopped this three-year-old disabled terrorist!

I feel so much safer now!

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:46 PM

56. All this shit for

NOTHING! This is another reason we need to investigate 9/11 AGAIN! If planes can be taken over with box cutters, then 10 martial arts terrorist could do more harm than any box cutter ever could. This is all a bunch of shit.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:47 PM

59. This is really very simple...

 

Either you want invasive screening or you don't.

If you do, then this is what you are going to get. They cannot issue a free pass to anyone. Children and the elderly and the handicapped are going to be targetted for additional screening. The alternative is a some form of non-invasive screening where officers watch from a distance and look for signs of stress and what not -- and in an airport that's a tough task. If you go that alternate route it is possible that there will be more terrorist attacks.

Possible.

We have to decide as a nation what we want. We have to decide if we want more government "protecting" us or less. We have to decide if we want airport and bus station and city street pat downs; we have to decide if we want drones sitting over our homes and peeking in our windows; we have to decide if we want the government reading our emails and forum posts and databasing every website and image we view. And it wont stop there. It never stops there.

We have to decide if we are a nation of fucking cowards or a nation that accepts the occassional tragedy or assault as one of the prices we pay for freedom. Until then this is all just faux-outrage and hypocrisy. You're angry because the meanies at the TSA did the job you demanded that they do, and it's as silly as weeping over the lawn clippings after the gardener finishes mowing the grass. So either cowboy the hell up and demand and end to ALL of it, or accept that this is just one more thing you will tolerate in the name of "safety."

Blunt, but there it is.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #59)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:16 PM

79. +1 (nt)

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #59)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:25 PM

83. Fair enough, I choose...

freedom.
Throw out the Patriot Act. I would rather live in a dangerous free country than a safe place where my every action, decision and thought is monitored or chosen for me.

To some that may mean I am not a liberal but whatever it is, that is what I am.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #83)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:55 PM

101. Me as well

 

The government has MORE than enough to do inspecting meat and oil rigs. Let them do that and leave off inspecting me.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #59)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:22 PM

106. Fucking A. n/t

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:48 PM

62. Thank god we have the TSA there to protect us!

I'm glad they didn't let this "little girl" with her shenanigans through security without a thorough check. It's high time three year olds learned that if you insist on bring your wheelchair to the airport, you should expect it to be thoroughly checked for the safety of the other passengers. Also, you'll get "Lamby" back when TSA is good and done with it. Until then just shut up and cooperate.

I don't know how these people sleep at night knowing they are causing so much trouble for our air passengers' first line of defense, the TSA.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #62)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:24 PM

116. You had me going there for a minute.

I thought it was a typical TSA defender post.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #116)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:26 PM

117. After I wrote it, I figured

the tag shouldn't be necessary.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #117)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:33 PM

118. I got one sentence in and realized where you were going.

Of course, further down thread we have a staunch defender of anything TSA holding forth. And possibly another waiting in the wings.

I'm just not getting people who are willing to put up with this bullshit to travel. And who say "It's just fine as long as it keeps us safe".

The terrorist's won with the passage of the "Patriot (sic) Act".

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:49 PM

63. Wheelchairs and Scooters - Travelers with Disabilities and Medical Conditions

Most airlines provide accommodations to persons with disabilities who have difficulty walking through the airport—usually in the form of a wheelchair and wheelchair attendant. Please contact your airline for more information about wheelchair assistance as TSA does not provide this service.

The screening process for a passenger who uses a wheelchair or scooter is determined by a passenger’s ability to stand and walk. A passenger can be screened without standing, walking, or being required to transfer out of a wheelchair or scooter; however, a passenger should inform a security officer of his or her ability before the screening begins.

Passengers who can neither stand nor walk will be screened by a thorough patdown while they remain seated.

Passengers who can stand but cannot walk will be asked to stand near their wheelchair or scooter and will be screened using a thorough patdown.

Passengers in wheelchairs or scooters who can walk may be able to be screened using a metal detector or imaging technology.

A patdown procedure is used to resolve any alarms of a metal detector or anomalies identified by imaging technology.

Regardless of how the passenger is screened, the passenger’s wheelchair or scooter will be inspected, including the seat cushions and any non-removable pouches or fanny packs. It will also be tested for traces of explosives, and any removable pouches will be required to undergo X-ray screening.


http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/wheelchairs-and-scooters

The above is TSA's standard policy. People should inform themselves of these policies so that they aren't surprised at the airport or can choose to take alternative transportation.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:07 PM

76. What's the solution? Do away with all TSA checks? Or only certain profiles?

Every time there's a story like this, people basically say that young children can't pose any threat, little old ladies can't pose any threat, disabled people can't pose any threat. It's really a form of profiling: "Do I look like a terrorist to you?" Well, children and little old ladies and people in wheelchairs can be used in such a manner and have been the world over. If we're going to create excepted classes when it comes to security, we might as well do away with it altogether. Are airport security measures too intrusive? Are they effective? These are important questions but not really the point here.

Children cry about lots of things. Good parents make experiences (like a trip to the doctor or dentist, for example) less scary by explaining things ahead of time, by showing their child a relaxed demeanor, by distracting the child when necessary, etc. This child was upset in large part because of the behavior of the parents.

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Response to Nine (Reply #76)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:25 PM

82. Honey, we are going to go on an airplane

but first we have to go through security. You will be separated from mommy and daddy, people in uniform will touch your private parts, they will go through your stuff and may even keep some of your toys. But don't worry, sweetie, it is for your own safety.

I'm glad I'm old and will never have to have that conversation.

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #82)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:07 PM

103. I didn't see any of that on the video. (nt)

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #82)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:37 PM

125. Some children's books may help...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #125)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 08:29 PM

139. The child did not receive a pat-down, much less a cavity search. (nt)

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Response to Nine (Reply #139)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:31 PM

141. Ooh, the TSA was being magnanimous in their bullying. n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #141)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:03 PM

148. Do you realize that airport screeners do not set TSA policy?

You don't like the TSA or the security measures they have in place, fine. But airport screeners are just low-wage, low-power working stiffs trying to eke out a living and get through their workdays. They didn't single out this child because they get their jollies targeting disabled kids. They did it because somewhere in their employee handbooks is a regulation telling them to check wheelchairs for explosives or whatever. If you don't like TSA policy, work to get it changed through political channels. Don't harass people who are on their feet all day dealing with disgruntled travelers. The employee was mistaken when she told the mother that it was illegal to film, but other than that she was just trying to do her job. A week ago DUers were all singing the praises of restaurant servers and bragging about the huge tips they all leave, and here you have employees doing work that is just as shitty, if not more so, than food service, and all the good progressives on here are calling them thugs and grope-happy perverts. The girl in this story did not even receive a pat-down, so what was the big trauma we're all supposed to be angry about?

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Response to Nine (Reply #148)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:06 PM

149. If your job is violating the liberty and dignity of thousands of people every day, FUCK YOUR JOB.

Sorry, I'm not going to make it easy for them.

If they had a moral bone in them, they'd quit and find work that didn't involve humiliating people to enforce a police state.

I don't give a fuck about them. My empathy for TSA screeners is at zero.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #149)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:17 PM

151. Glad to know where you stand.

Tell me, do you fly? If everyone who had a problem with TSA would simply boycott air travel as much as possible, the policies you object to so much would have a good chance of ending. People don't want to give up air travel because it's too much of an inconvenience. People don't want to get to their vacation destinations by bus or to vacation only in nearby locales. People who travel on a business are not about to put their own livelihoods at risk by refusing to fly. But you want the people at the bottom of the economic ladder to do the noble thing and turn down gainful employment? My how liberal of you.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #149)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:05 PM

161. x2

 

Well said.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #149)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 03:10 AM

164. Freedom and liberty are NOTHING to the 3000 people who died on 9-11.

 

Putting down 100% of the TSA is saying 100% of what the TSA does is bad.

1% of the TSA might not be good, which means 1% of what the TSA does is bad.

The TSA are union people.
Wanting to get rid of the TSA to me is union busting.


I would trust the TSA with my life 100% even if 1% is bad.
And 5 out of billion complaints is a helleva good percentage for anything.
So mass hating 99% of something is ridiculous.

I would trust the NRA ZERO percent with my life, nor any PRIVATE citizen not working on duty
at the time who had a gun and a bullet.(ESPECIALLY if they are pro-NRA).
(If they are on duty as a federal, state, local police, I would trust them.)

Simple FACT.


IMHO.

I am not a fan of libertarians.

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Response to Nine (Reply #76)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:45 PM

120. I think you stated the situation correctly.

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Response to Nine (Reply #76)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 08:13 PM

137. GET RID OF THE TSA

Can I possibly make it any plainer than that? Get rid of them. They only exist to keep us afraid. And they're hurting airline traffic.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:14 PM

77. Here's a blogpost I wrote a couple of years ago . . .

. . . addressing the question of whether or not these intrusive TSA procedures were, in fact, keeping anybody "safe."

NOVEMBER 24, 2010 5:12AM
My response to Ruth Marcus

In her Washington Post column titled, "Don't touch my junk? Grow up, America" (Nov. 24, 2010), Ruth Marcus scolds:

The uproar over the new procedures is overblown and immature. The marginal invasion of privacy is small relative to the potential benefit of averting a terrorist attack.

I think what constitutes "immaturity" is for the country to allow policy to be driven by raw emotionalism and irrational fear rather than by a sober, data-driven analysis.

According to the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, there are approximately 28,537 flights per day in the U..S. That means in the past nine years since 9/11, there have been over 93 million flights. In the same period, there have been three attempts to carry explosives onto commercial aircraft (none of which were successful): (1) Richard Reid, the "shoe-bomber," (2) the London liquid bomb plot and (3) the more recent "underwear bomber." So, based on three incidents, or 1 in 31 million, hundreds of millions of people are being asked to endure, respectively (1) the absurd ritual of removing belts and shoes, (2) having their shampoo confiscated if its half an ounce bigger than what is now permitted and (3) being subject to a virtual strip search or intrusive pat down, in effect being treated as if they were criminal suspects. Yet people still buy into the line that these things are "necessary to keep us safe."

The right to be secure in one's person is surely at the heart of the Constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure. The Fourth Amendment stipulates the requirement of "probable cause," which the courts in recent decades have relaxed to the lower standard of "reasonable suspicion." In the case of airline passengers en masse, there is neither. But the TSA, by using the scanners and/or pat-downs, is effectively treating everyone as if they had reasonable suspicion sufficient to warrant a search of their persons.

Given that it is generally accepted (intellectually if not always emotionally) that there is no possible way for the government to provide a 100% guarantee of safety, what, then, is a fair margin of risk? With a rate of occurrence over a nine year period of 1 in 31 million, WITHOUT (prior to) the scanners and/or newly intrusive pat downs, I would say we are doing a fine job already, and that we don't need to go around instituting new procedures every time an incident occurs (and there will, inevitably, be more occurrences). How "safe" do we really need to be?

Finally, the question begs: if a rate of occurrence of 1 in 31 million rises to a level of risk sufficient to broadly abrogate citizens' rights under the Constitution, what, then, can the government not justify in the name of "safety" or "security?" At that point, we've pretty much defined out of existence the possibility of any search under any circumstance being deemed unreasonable.

So, no, Ms. Marcus, the issue is not one of "immaturity" on the part of those who are opposed to the new machines and/or pat downs. But there may well be a maturity issue with those blindly accept anything the government tries to impose upon us (and anything former government officials are getting rich from selling to us) in the name of "safety," when they have never actually remotely made that case.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:28 PM

85. I for one feel much safer now that we are patting down wheel-chair bound little girls.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:48 PM

96. Has all this TSA BS

even stopped one potential terrorist?

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 03:49 PM

97. Again, if this shit is allowed to happen... the Terrorists have clearly fucking WON.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:00 PM

102. It's not a war on terror it's a war on personal freedoms.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:35 PM

110. Extra screening can lead to missed flights, etc....

For those who say people who use wheelchairs-- but don’t want to be subjected to onerous screening measures-- should find alternative transportation, I would reply that it unrealistic … and harsh. My daughter, who is quadriplegic, has often needed to travel to Washington, DC for her advocacy work. We live in San Francisco. There is no realistic alternative to air travel for her. We don’t mind that she receives extra screening. We mind when she receives so much extra screening that flights are missed. One time, when our whole family -- including her (then) three-year-old sister and her (then) seven-year-old brother--- was traveling with her back from Washington, we were ALL pulled aside with her and ALL subjected to extra screening…. and we had to wait and wait (and WAIT) as other non-disabled passengers continued to get screened… until finally someone was available to screen us… but even though we had gotten to the airport early (as we always try to do), we missed our afternoon flight, and couldn’t get on another flight until the wee hours of the morning. It’s one thing to be “sentenced” to hanging out in an airport for hours with a three-year-old and seven-year-old when it is unavoidable (flights grounded, etc.), but this did not feel unavoidable. The extra screening has resulted in other missed flights, too… not to mention, frantic rushing to make the plane, while also needing to make a bathroom stop first, since even when there are “accessible” bathrooms on planes, they are not really all that accessible. Also, aisle chairs are always requested ahead of time, but seldom ready at the gate, so there is usually a delay for that, too. It can make it seem like it’s my daughter’s “fault” if a plane doesn’t leave on time… when other passengers can see we are the last people boarding, but don’t know that we actually arrived early, but were subjected to delays they didn’t have to experience.



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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:00 PM

115. My friend's 91 year old mom nearly caused a riot refusing to remove her shoes

She finally removed them but not before they threatened to throw her out of JFK airport in NYC. She said she didn't want anyone to see her bunions.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:47 PM

121. Subhuman assholes.




They are automatons, devoid of any human common sense or feeling.



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Response to lpbk2713 (Reply #121)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:33 PM

124. A-fucking-men!

If you're working for the TSA, may I suggest finding another line of work that isn't so dishonorable?

Give me one example. One. Uno. Eins. One example of the authoritarian circus, with the grope-downs, the pornoscanners and the bullying of disabled children, actually catching a real terrorist.

Give me one example. Last I heard, the TSA hasn't caught a single real terrorist. All they do is bully and harass the innocent.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:11 PM

123. I've always wanted to visit Ireland.

And Spain. But since I can't get there without flying, I guess I won't be going. Too many horror stories like this one.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #123)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:21 PM

130. if you already use Google Street View please disregard this post

 

I refuse to fly under these circumstances too. And I was incredibly depressed about it since traveling is my favorite thing to do in the world.

Then I found Google Street view. No it's not like going there, but it's the next best thing and it is only going to get better. Already there's a virtual capsule at goog headquarters - a 360 virtual HD world that moves when you turn your head- like the Holodeck on Star Trek.




You can see stonehenge from up close, walk through the streets of Mallorca, or explore (some) of the castles in Ireland. All the major streets in Ireland have HD Street view now. If you haven't seen it you'd be amazed. Helpful travel guide blogs too- http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/



Ok that's Scotland. I usually hang out on the Big Island.

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Response to green for victory (Reply #130)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:27 PM

132. This is too cool!

Thanks!

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:50 PM

127. Smaller airports aren't immune to this

and haven't been for a long time. My daughter was going to hockey camp in Portland, Me., about 10 years ago. Besides the normal shit we had to go through with her hockey equipment, there was a old woman there in a walker. She was too feeble to take off her shoes, or even her sweater. Although her daughter was with her, they separated them. The old woman was crying because she could not take off her own shoes, sweater, plus the fact they wouldn't let her daughter be with or help her with this. They did not take her to a special room but she was right there with everyone else.

This all went on for about half an hour. Eventually, other people began to complain about how this woman was being treated, and they let her daughter take off her shoes, sweater, and put her in a wheelchair to be taken onto the plane.

It took STRANGER PASSENGERS to complain before anything was done. Plus this was a good 10 years ago.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:27 PM

131. In 2008 at the Nashville airport, my wheelchair-bound wife, age 73, was subject to a grueling

30-minute search nearly causing us miss our flight to LAX. It was the most mind-numbing instance of officious overkill I've ever witnessed.

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:57 PM

134. TSA security is a JOKE! Worthless. Not useful and a waste of time and money. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #134)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:41 PM

144. You need to remember the true purpose of the TSA's dog-and-pony show.

The true purpose of the pornoscanners and grope-downs is to coercively condition the American populace into passively accepting an authoritarian police state.

Of course, the TSA's completely useless for catching terrorists trying to skyjack or bomb an airliner - that's just their cover story.

Anyone who works for the TSA is a piece of shit.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #144)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 09:57 PM

147. Great Points! +1

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Response to Tony_FLADEM (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:19 PM

152. Yes, Yes!

 

All little girls in wheelchairs deserve free pass onto airliners! Praise Alla…. I mean, praise God!

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Response to railsback (Reply #152)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:39 PM

154. By "Alla" I assume you mean "Allah?"

And "Allah" is the name of God among Muslims (and Arab Christians).

So you're saying "Praise God...I mean God!"

What the fuck does that mean?

What's the difference?


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