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Sun Jan 29, 2012, 10:05 PM

In defense of Occupy Oakland...

No one knows whether or not those who chose to burn an American flag were part of the movement or not, but we know this: If you DON'T think that there are ways the super-wealthy and/or police/FBI officials will actively go to great lengths to infiltrate movements like this and stir the pot using violence, inciting riots, or burning flags, etc. to sway public opinion and overthrow movements than you should consider opening your mind to the world of such actual protests and protestors. This is NOT a new tactic and is damn near a staple in every social justice uprising since the beginning of the 20th century.

I've seen it with my own eyes. From the massive NYC anti-war protests to the massive protests of the RNC here in NYC to the 11x I've been to Occupy Wall Street, TRUST ME, it goes on. ALOT. And it doesn't just stop there. They don't just infiltrate protests, they infiltrate lives. They become part of the movement and form trusting bonds with actual revolutionaries, not just inside of the protests but along side in each others personal lives. Often times because of the nature of these movements such people are welcome with open arms and trusted because they've been seen doing the "dirty work" and were in the trenches with the masses. They became a familiar face and were allowed into many of the inner circles of the scene, sometimes even taking on leadership roles. To further the bond they will also take on much less confrontational positions such as assisting helping the poor and working on community issues and needs with their fellow activists. This gets them in good standing and they become trusted and respected.

(Also, in defense, I would like to note that there has always been a long history of police brutality and tension between the citizens of Oakland and the police)

Below I'm going to post 2 links, the first one is from a forum message board where you will see a letter posted to the forum by an undercover FBI agent who infiltrated such a movement and confesses (Read the comments below the letter for how his "friends and allies" view him after the confession). Not only did this person assume a leadership role in many movements from the anti-war movement as well as movements for social justice following Hurricane Katrina, this person coerced people to carry out violence and had them arrested even before the act on grounds of conspiracy. See here: http://www.indymedia.org/pt/2008/12/918526.shtml

And for the second link here is a Mother Jones article/interview with this person and is VERY in-depth and WELL worth the read. I suggest reading this one first to get you up to date before reading his written confession.
Here: http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/08/brandon-darby-anarchist-fbi-terrorism

After reading these 2 links I'm sure you may find it best to wait before accusing actual protestors of such actions. We also have evidence of many protestors pleading with persons NOT to burn the flag. All I'm saying is: Keep your mind open.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply In defense of Occupy Oakland... (Original post)
FarLeftFist Jan 2012 OP
2ndAmForComputers Jan 2012 #1
Remember Me Jan 2012 #2
TheWraith Jan 2012 #4
WillyT Jan 2012 #5
Remember Me Jan 2012 #21
EFerrari Jan 2012 #7
Zorra Jan 2012 #3
RZM Jan 2012 #6
jberryhill Jan 2012 #8
EFerrari Jan 2012 #10
jberryhill Jan 2012 #11
EFerrari Jan 2012 #12
starroute Jan 2012 #14
EFerrari Jan 2012 #9
annm4peace Jan 2012 #16
EFerrari Jan 2012 #19
Rex Jan 2012 #13
mike_c Jan 2012 #15
annm4peace Jan 2012 #17
T S Justly Jan 2012 #18
FarLeftFist Jan 2012 #20

Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 10:10 PM

1. Look up Phil Parlock. He exists. He did those things. It's established fact.

That is all.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:49 PM

2. I've said from the beginning: WHENEVER protesters of the Left

 

are accused of anything, ALWAYS, ALwAYS, ALWAYS suspect agents provocateurs. Why? Because most of the time they're the ones who did it, or staged things to LOOk like the protesters did bad things, or just lied about us. Period.

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Response to Remember Me (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:00 AM

4. Oh please. That's a cop-out and we both know it.

It's a way of excusing anything and everything: "agitators did it!" Since clearly there can't be anyone at all in "the movement" who does things anyone else disagrees with. Except, that's not even close to true, so trying to blame anything unwanted on "agitators" is just a way of trying to excuse bad behavior by protesters.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:05 AM

5. Yeah... But The Bad Behavior Of Elected Democrats And Republicans Has Caused FAR WORSE DAMAGE

Just take a look at our country right now.


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Response to TheWraith (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 10:34 PM

21. No, I'm sorry, dear. I'm cynical, but you beat me by bunches.

 

So, no I DON'T "know" that it's a cop-out.

Please note I said SUSPECT agents provocateurs. And why is that? Because there's a nice, long, vivid and lurid HISTORY of their involvement in trying to bring down leftish movements of virtually any type -- and more often than I've been heretofore willing to even allow myself to SEE, winning.

So dismiss it if you will. I'll not enable the opposition by refusing to see the likelihood and/or reality of their fine hands at work.

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Response to Remember Me (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:11 AM

7. Yep Especially something as cliched as flag burning

in a movement that has been so creative.

I have no idea who burned those flags but the safer bet is troublemakers, not movement people.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:54 PM

3. Yep: Rightist Sparks DC Police Reprisal at Museum Protest

Reporters from the progressive websites OpEd News and FireDogLake have taken a lead in documenting how a right-wing agent provocateur created a violent police reaction Oct. 8 against peaceful Occupy Occupy DCWashington antiwar protesters. This shut down a Smithsonian museum and led to arrests. Furthermore, the role of the disrupter from The American Spectator was ignored by most mainstream news coverage until the next day. Instead, establishment reporters initially relied on police and museum spokespeople for spin-filled, dubious accounts of a demonstration that occurred in plain view near the center of the historic Mall.

Rob Kall, publisher of OpEd News, and his colleague Cheryl Biren have shocking photos of the event to illustrate their account. She was pepper-sprayed three times despite her credentials as a journalist and such important work as her photo at left. They and other journalists below have helped piece together an account of how the confrontation escalated because of a pre-planned stunt by an American Spectator editor identified as Patrick Howley, left. Howley is partly obscured in Biren's photo just behind another and larger unidentified demonstrator in the black tee-shirt. Biren says she compared her photos of the unidentified, heavyset man carefully with the mug shot of a New Jersey rightist reputed on some websites to be him, but believes they are not the same person. Over the past week, FireDogLake's Charlie Grapski did most of the detective work, and published an updated report on Oct. 10 called, Anatomy of a Deception: How a Conservative Magazine Attempted to Discredit the Occupy Movement, Read his coverage and that at OpEd News in such columns as, "Occupy" Participants Beware: Agents Provocateur Like The One at Air Space Museum Are Threat. Then help report the news widely through your Facebook, Twitter and other accounts.


http://justice-integrity.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=474:secret-agent-provokes-police-at-dc-museum-protest&catid=44:myblog

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:08 AM

6. Try to think of it this way

 

There are malcontents out there on the left who think flag-burning is a good thing. They aren't large in number, BUT . . .

From their perspective, Occupy is a natural home for them. They oppose the 1 percent and the general makeup of society. While Occupy might not want such elements, they definitely want Occupy. Here's a real movement with national traction that stands for some of the same things that they do. From their perspective, it's a perfect fit. They get to go out in public, do their thing, and get coverage and have people backing them up.

Just because the rest of Occupy isn't feeling them doesn't matter. It's an open movement. If you accept participation from anyone in the 99 percent, you have to accept them too. They are the 99 percent as much as anybody else is.

I really don't think it's a setup. I think this is real douchebags doing their thing. It's not called 99 percent for nothing. 99 percent includes about 98 percent of the riff raff out there

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:12 AM

8. Then buy City Hall a new flag and glass

The only way to clearly dissociate from those responsible - whether plants or not - is for the vast majority of OWSers to engage in a productive act of repudiation and restitution.

There is a world of difference between "we didn't do it" and "we'll fix what those assholes did and tried to blame on us".

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:21 AM

10. Can you wait until they get out of jail?

They're probably still sorting themselves out. I know my Code Pink list has been buzzing all day.

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:22 AM

11. Is all of OWS in jail?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:27 AM

12. The group's attention is on making sure everyone is okay,

gets medical care, gets processed out, is accounted for.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 02:27 AM

14. Much of Occupy Oakland is

The authorities haven't released exact figures, but something like 400 people were arrested -- a big chunk of the 1000-2000 that were marching. Many of them hadn't even been booked yet as of a couple of hours ago, which is a deliberate police tactic to keep them off the street and to keep those outside from knowing exactly who was arrested and who might simply be laying low.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:19 AM

9. Brandon Darby. If you doubt this stuff happens, check out this report at Amy's site

Prominent Austin Activist Admits He Infiltrated RNC Protest Groups as FBI Informant (2009)

An Austin-based activist named Brandon Darby has revealed he worked as an FBI informant in the eighteen months leading up to the Republican National Convention. Darby has admitted to wearing recording devices at planning meetings and wearing a transmitter embedded in his belt during the convention. He is expected to testify on behalf of the government later this month in the trial of two Texas activists who were arrested at the RNC on charges of making and possessing Molotov cocktails.


http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/6/prominent_austin_activist_admits_he_infiltrated

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 09:30 PM

16. I was there. we had infiltrators all over the place

This happened at the RNC 2008 in St Paul.

I'm in several peace groups.. as soon as it was announced that the RNC was to be in ST Paul the infiltrating started.

The story on these two kids was very sad and they had a lot of support at their hearings and trial but like ret. FBI Coleen Rowley said.. the FBI were not going to lose, even if they were wrong.



I wish people were as upset about American Citizens who are homeless and dying on the street as they are of some kid destroying a flag.

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Response to annm4peace (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 10:05 PM

19. But flag burning sets off long-cultivated triggers.

It's a Pavlovian response.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 01:30 AM

13. I've watched people here declare OWS dead for months now.

Of course I see people posting all kinds of crazy shit, like we are going to war with Iran or that Ron Paul somehow sounds sane for 2 minutes out of each day. None of it is true, even if they 'don't want it to be'.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 08:39 PM

15. I don't give a rat's goddamn if they burned a flag....

Sorry, I cut my teeth in the streets in the early 1970s. I have seen many a flag burned. It's not a biggie. Doesn't even make much of a fire, usually. Now burning a bank or a corporate headquarters, that'll warm your toes for a few hours for sure, and warm your heart for a lifetime....

Note to alerters: it's IRONIC HUMOR, not an incitement to violence. OWS is nonviolent.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 09:34 PM

17. the corporate news continues spin the Occupation or silences it

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/1/30/occupy_oakland_over_400_arrested_as

ARIA LEWIS: Hi. Yeah. So, this weekend, despite the brutal police repression that the people of Oakland faced, I think was a really beautiful weekend. What we saw was thousands of people taking to the streets to reclaim what this economic and political system in this country has systematically denied us, which is the right to basic food, basic shelter, basic medical care, the things that the Oakland Commune, Occupy Oakland, used to provide in its encampment and has been unable to since that encampment was brutally repressed by the Oakland police. There were thousands of people in the street who fought to reclaim a building, a vacant building, and one of the hundreds of vacant buildings in the city, and to open that space up for people as a social center, as a place where we can get basic—our basic needs met and meet them ourselves. And while we weren’t able to secure that building this weekend, I was really amazed at the spirit and the voracity of the Oakland residents who were fighting in the street this weekend.

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Response to FarLeftFist (Original post)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 09:51 PM

18. Good try, but I think the police are the ones needing a defense. Thank you. (nt) (nr)

 

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Response to T S Justly (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 10:16 PM

20. The police will always have their defense. All I'm saying is, is that this DOES happen and OFTEN.

I myself do not condone any acts of violence at protests and I don't condone flag-burning.

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