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Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:55 AM

Pistorious bail hearing going on now, and he looks worse and worse:

@barrybateman: #OscarPistorius
Botha: Oldwage said they were looking for a memory stick with details of offshort accounts in the safe. BB

Oldwage is his lawyer. Botha is a detective investigating the case.

He has also said they found testosterone and needles. In addition, the defense says Pistorious did not have prostheses on, but trajectory of bullets was down.

Pistorious owns a house in Italy.

The bail hearing is ongoing. These are some details of the testimony from reporter in court

@barrybateman: #OscarPistorius Nel:
the accused says he was too scared to switch on the lights.
Botha: a witness says the lights were on. BB.


@barrybateman: #OscarPistorius
Botha also has a witness claiming he heard shots, checked the house to see the lights on, then screams and more shots. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarPistorius Roux is arguing that the trajectory of the bullets to hit the toilet is consistant with the accused version. BB
Roux is Pistorious's attorney. Botha concedes it is possible

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Reply Pistorious bail hearing going on now, and he looks worse and worse: (Original post)
Are_grits_groceries Feb 2013 OP
Skittles Feb 2013 #1
Are_grits_groceries Feb 2013 #2
Skittles Feb 2013 #11
graham4anything Feb 2013 #3
TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #6
trumad Feb 2013 #13
graham4anything Feb 2013 #16
lapislzi Feb 2013 #19
WCLinolVir Feb 2013 #31
BainsBane Feb 2013 #4
TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #5
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2013 #8
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #9
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #18
magellan Feb 2013 #7
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #10
magellan Feb 2013 #12
exboyfil Feb 2013 #17
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2013 #28
magellan Feb 2013 #29
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2013 #32
magellan Feb 2013 #33
magellan Feb 2013 #35
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2013 #40
magellan Feb 2013 #41
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #37
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2013 #14
polly7 Feb 2013 #15
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #21
polly7 Feb 2013 #23
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #24
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2013 #25
polly7 Feb 2013 #27
lapislzi Feb 2013 #20
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2013 #26
KharmaTrain Feb 2013 #22
redqueen Feb 2013 #30
WCLinolVir Feb 2013 #34
lapislzi Feb 2013 #38
riverwalker Feb 2013 #36
Bucky Feb 2013 #39

Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:02 AM

1. they argued, he lost it, and a gun was available

very common in America

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:04 AM

2. Occam's Razor

However, the defense wants people to hear zebras, giraffes, gnus or anything but horses.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:06 AM

3. This case is a prime reason gun and bullets should be banned.

 

This case is a prime reason no private person should have a gun and bullets.

Not sure why this case gets so much coverage, but either way it shows this is
about the gun and easy access to one, and how one in fear grabs a gun and uses it and someone is dead.

Or if he did it on purpose, it is because of the gun and bullet.

Guns and bullets kill.

I blame the gun and bullets.

Harder to murder somebody using another method, though of course it is done.
Guns and bullets make murder easier.

Guns and bullets make accidents happen.

(note-I never heard of this guy before this happened, so I am not familiar with him or his history or his fame nor of any underlying issues).

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:22 AM

6. he's South African

South Africa is a shit pot of crime, and it's probably a good idea for citizens to own weapons to protect themselves there.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:25 AM

13. Crime and apparently Super Models.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:09 AM

16. If only this Olympian had a gun, right? Oh, wait, he did.

 

A gun never saved anyone that their wits couldn't have saved to begin with. imho

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:55 AM

19. South Africa is also sports mad

Like, insane mad.

This is the biggest thing to happen for a long, long time.

I lived there, and I can tell you true that it is one schizophrenic society. The level of paranoia suffered by the average (white) citizen (i.e., one not hopped up on steroids and delusions of entitlement) is extreme, even by American standards.

I could tell you stories from the recent past.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:48 AM

31. Yeah, and apparently it also has a problem with domestic violence.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:09 AM

4. what is the significance

of the downward trajectory of the bullets?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:20 AM

5. That he had to have been wearing his prosthetic legs

making him taller than a person in the bathroom would have been. Had he really not been wearing his legs he would have shot the gun pointing more upward. It could also mean that he knew who was in the bathroom and that they were probably cowering on the floor.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:06 AM

8. hope this is not too sensitive a question, but can he actually walk without

his legs?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:13 AM

9. Yes - he says in his testimony he has 'mobility on his stumps' (nt)

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:53 AM

18. He said he didn't have his legs on

But, the angle of the shots show he was standing on them.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:26 AM

10. Why I think his version cannot be true

The athlete woke up in the early hours of 14 February, he added, and went on to the balcony to bring a fan in and close the sliding doors, blinds and curtains.

"I heard a noise and realised that someone was in the bathroom. I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.

"I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed."

One moment, he's claiming he's too scared to switch on the light; the next he's screaming at the burglar to get out of the house? These 2 things do not go together. If he was screaming about a burglar, she would have replied "it's me, you idiot, I'm on the toilet".

He went on: "I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.

"It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window. As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself.

"I believe that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.

He's got a gun in his hand, there's a person in the toilet with no other way out, and he thinks' *he* is trapped? It would take an extra second to unlock his bedroom door if he wanted to leave the bedroom/bathroom area. As the prosecution has said, deciding to fire at whoever is in the toilet looks like murder, even if they were a burglar. They were trapped, and he has the means to defend himself.

"I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.

Too scared to switch on a light still doesn't make sense. He's been shouting, firing a gun multiple times, but he's scared to turn on a light?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/19/oscar-pistorius-weeps-riveting-testimony

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:40 AM

12. Yep

And if you look at the floorplan, you can see how far he had to venture into the bathroom on his stumps, in the pitch dark, feeling terrified and vulnerable, in order to see the toilet door, behind which he believed there was an intruder. We're supposed to believe he did that instead of unlocking the bedroom door and getting him and Reeva out safely instead. Or closing the bathroom door, turning on the bedroom light, and keeping the gun trained on the bathroom door from a safe vantage while phoning the police.

Makes no sense at all, unless this is a scene from a horror film where everyone always goes into dark rooms to investigate noises.

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Response to magellan (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:43 AM

17. And they only do that because they have been drugged

ala Cabin in the Woods

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Response to magellan (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:38 AM

28. what do you mean "unlocking the bedroom door" ? when was it locked?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:43 AM

29. Don't know, but it's in his defense statement

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/19/oscar-pistorius-defence-statement

"It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window. As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself. I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps."

So he made it all the way into the bathroom (and if you look at the floorplan, you'll see it's not just a matter of going through a door), but he couldn't make it to his bedroom door to unlock it.

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Response to magellan (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:55 AM

32. I don't see the door on for the bathroom - unless it's that "low ceiling" area?

Guess he will say that when he left the bedroom he accidentally locked the door behind him?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:03 AM

33. I think it's where the "1200" is printed

That would make the "tiles" to the left of that an entrance hall to the bathroom, which leads around a corner to the "low ceiling" part. Then you're in the bathroom proper. Note the toilet is behind another door, at the top right corner of the bathroom.

I'm only guessing the door to the bathroom is there based on the plan. I suppose it could be further down that "tiles" section but not marked.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:18 AM

35. Here's a graphic that shows two doors between bedroom and bathroom

Slightly different layout. Looks like there's a wardrobe area in between, which might be the "cupboards" marked on the floorplan.


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Response to magellan (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:41 PM

40. perfect graphic...thanks M. Interesting tidbit that the window

was open. He might have a chance if they can prove that it was open and had maybe fingerprints or something.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:55 PM

41. Well, remember there was no intruder

It's just his claim that he "thought" there was one, but it was actually Reeva.

Personally it doesn't sound like much thinking was going on till after the fact, when an alternate scenario needed to be improvised. The story just doesn't hang together at all, right down to him not calling an ambulance first.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:58 AM

37. I assume that door is between the bedroom and the main part of the house

You might well leave that locked at night, if you worry about intruders getting into the ground floor. If someone were thinking whether they could retreat from the bathroom and bedroom into the rest of the house, it would be through that door. But they'd be able to unlock it at once from their own side - you don't lock your own bedroom door and then put the key elsewhere.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:27 AM

14. good points. Let's say his story is true. What would make zero sense

to me would be that she wouldn't have said, "I AM IN HERE". Second, a normal response when you hear noise is (1) Assume it is your spouse, (2) confirm they are not anywhere else, like in bed, (3) shift into high gear for an intruder.

On the other hand, it is pretty convenient for him that the bathroom has no burglar bars and the workmen left a ladder. Perhaps these things had crossed his mind earlier - for real - thinking about a burglar?

All that said....the witnesses hearing the fighting and screaming does him in.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:29 AM

15. I read that his lawyer was explaining the blood on the cricket bat

by saying he used it to break in the door and then dropped it in her blood. It'll be really interesting to see what parts of all this a judge will believe.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:58 AM

21. If he hit her with it, it'll have skin cells, etc. on it

And, she'll have injuries showing she was hit with the cricket bat.

He is done.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:11 AM

23. Absolutely agree.

I'm glad this trial will be before a judge ... I've been hearing bits and snippets from the Jodi Arias trial and am always amazed at how a good defense lawyer can make even the most ridiculous claims seem possibly believable to a jury of individuals who will all see things differently.

Hoping for justice for her family.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:18 AM

24. They have bench trials in SA because jury trials were so biased

Because of apartheid, etc. From what I've read, the judges are held to extremely high standards. So.....

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Response to polly7 (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:35 AM

25. I am really into the Arias trial. If you happen to be home today, last night ended in

a cliff hanger. Today she will explain exactly what happened when she killed him

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:38 AM

27. Thanks!

I don't believe a word she says, but this should be good!

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:57 AM

20. Add to this:

He was able to go for his gun under the bed, but didn't think to check whether his girlfriend was IN the bed? Never occurred to him? And next he's shouting for her?

There are so many holes in this story it's like Swiss cheese.

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Response to lapislzi (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:37 AM

26. and the bedroom was completely black. so you would have to find the gun without sensing her

presence - hearing her toss and turn, breathe, etc.

swiss cheese is right. this has got to be an open and shut case

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:59 AM

22. Now Was He The Good Guy With The Gun or The Bad Guy With The Gun??



I'll be curious how some NRA Zombie will claim she should have had a gun, too...

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:48 AM

30. Reporters on GMT (BBC) were pushing the 'he's so remorseful, he will probably get bail' shit

I'm going to have to stop watching their newscasts in the morning.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:17 AM

34. "bring a fan in and close the sliding doors, blinds and curtains. "

He was afraid of robbers, yet left a ladder, which could be moved, and his balcony doors open. Don't buy the completely dark theory, as this is a housing tract, not a farm in the outback. There would have been residual light and I would have noticed whether or not I was waking up my partner, especially if his line of sight was closer to the level of the bed. Also I am willing to bet he had motion sensitive outdoor lights, as this is a high end housing development. Not to mention a security system. Which he conveniently left off. And what about AC? If you are paranoid, don't you use ac instead of a fan and open doors? I know I would especially if it was an issue and I wanted to make sure my partner was protected. Swiss cheese indeed. I would lock him up for being stupid, if he actually didn't shoot her, which I think he did intentionally, as he does not seem smart enough.

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Response to WCLinolVir (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:46 AM

38. Having lived in South Africa, I can tell you that that's highly unusual

It's February, and it's stinking hot in Pretoria. You sleep with the AC on and the doors locked. You arm your security system before retiring. You have motion sensors out the wazoo, including in outdoor patio or balcony areas.

Although I'm not familiar with Mr. Pistorius's compound, I've seen enough like it to know that most of them are fortified like Fort Knox.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:23 AM

36. what is the non-banned "herbal testosterone"

they found that has to be given by injection/needle?
EDIT: never mind, I found it http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9881941/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html
The "testosterone" was, in fact, something called "testo compositum coenzyme", a "permitted herbal medicine".

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