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Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:23 PM

Pregnant 12 year old threatens suit to carry to term despite parents wishes



I made that up, but I'd like to know y'alls opinions on it.

56 replies, 5755 views

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Reply Pregnant 12 year old threatens suit to carry to term despite parents wishes (Original post)
elehhhhna Feb 2013 OP
virgogal Feb 2013 #1
elehhhhna Feb 2013 #2
virgogal Feb 2013 #3
elehhhhna Feb 2013 #13
Drale Feb 2013 #4
Brickbat Feb 2013 #5
elehhhhna Feb 2013 #8
cali Feb 2013 #15
REP Feb 2013 #17
cali Feb 2013 #24
REP Feb 2013 #25
cali Feb 2013 #26
REP Feb 2013 #27
cali Feb 2013 #28
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #6
pnwmom Feb 2013 #10
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #14
newfie11 Feb 2013 #7
elehhhhna Feb 2013 #11
REP Feb 2013 #16
newfie11 Feb 2013 #19
pnwmom Feb 2013 #9
demwing Feb 2013 #30
pnwmom Feb 2013 #31
Lars39 Feb 2013 #12
Ilsa Feb 2013 #18
slackmaster Feb 2013 #20
gollygee Feb 2013 #21
LeftyMom Feb 2013 #22
pnwmom Feb 2013 #33
JVS Feb 2013 #23
demwing Feb 2013 #29
OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #32
demwing Feb 2013 #34
OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #35
demwing Feb 2013 #36
MichelleB Apr 2013 #37
Rhiannon12866 Apr 2013 #38
MichelleB Apr 2013 #39
Rhiannon12866 Apr 2013 #40
MichelleB Apr 2013 #41
Rhiannon12866 Apr 2013 #42
Warpy Apr 2013 #52
TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #43
cali Apr 2013 #49
In_The_Wind Apr 2013 #44
TeeYiYi Apr 2013 #45
JaneyVee Apr 2013 #46
hrmjustin Apr 2013 #47
cali Apr 2013 #48
ret5hd Apr 2013 #50
winter is coming Apr 2013 #53
Captain Stern Apr 2013 #54
rug Apr 2013 #55
Aerows Apr 2013 #56
ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #51

Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:24 PM

1. Our opinion on your making it up? Silly,IMHO.

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Response to virgogal (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:25 PM

2. oh my what a welcome and helpful response

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Response to elehhhhna (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:30 PM

3. You asked for an opinion,I gave one.

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Response to virgogal (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:40 PM

13. thank you, wise one

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:31 PM

4. Let her have the baby, if she does not want an abortion

but then she should have to put it up for adoption or lose it to DCFS because being a mother at 12 is paramount to child abuse.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:32 PM

5. Why make it up? It's happening in Texas. Only with a teen, not a 12-year-old.

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:37 PM

8. That's actually my point. A 16 year old is one example, but

at what age is it the mothers choice entirely? Perhaps a moot point as it is not medically adviseable for most 12 y/olds to carry to term. Just wondering what people have to say about it.

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Response to elehhhhna (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:47 PM

15. no one should force anyone into having a baby or having an abortion

even if the prospective mother is 12 unless expert medical opinion is that carrying the child to term would result in the death or serious injury to the mother- which isn't to say that I think the TX case is anything but bullshit with anti-choicers pulling the strings.

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Response to cali (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:54 PM

17. Complete agreement on the Texas case

That's what I thought the second I read about it.

And death/serious long-term injury is almost guaranteed with a full-term birth in a 12 year old. I'll see if I can dig up the stats.

Here's one:

Pregnancy and childbirth-related deaths are the number one killers of 15 - 19 year old girls world-wide. Each year, nearly 70,000 die. At least 2 million more are left with chronic illness or disabilities that may bring them life-long suffering, shame, and abandonment. Physically immature and often with few resources, the youngest first- time mothers are most at risk. Moreover, each year 2.2 to 4 million adolescents resort to unsafe abortion. Ninety nine per cent of maternal deaths occur in the developing world, and most of them—an overwhelming 74 per cent—are preventable.
Sources: UNICEF 2002; WHO, UNICEF, and UNFPA 2004; Safe Motherhood Inter-Agency Group 2002; Olukoya et
al. 2001; Bale, Stoll, and Adetokunbo 2003; Wagstaff and Claeson 2004.

Retrieved from https://www.unfpa.org/webdav/site/global/shared/documents/publications/2007/giving_girls.pdf

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Response to REP (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:04 AM

24. world wide, but what about in the U.S?

After all, in many impoverished parts of the world, childbirth is still deadly for both mother and child. It is not almost guaranteed that a 15 year old in this country will die in pregnancy. 750,000 girls between 15-19 get pregnant every year in this country. 2/3 of those choose to carry to term. You're surely not suggesting that most of those girls die?

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Response to cali (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:09 AM

25. That's for 15-19 YOs; haven't had time yet to check on stats for 10-15 YOs

I'm not giving a number, but as I recall, even in the US, the morbidity/mortality for that age group is staggering. WHO was the first data set I could put my hands on that even addressed that age group.

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Response to REP (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:40 AM

26. Here's what I've found. As of 2007,

evidently, 400 women died in the U.S. of causes related to childbirth.

http://www.harpersbazaar.com/beauty/health-wellness-articles/wife-died-after-childbirth-0909

Worldwide, girls <15 are 5x more likely to die then women over 20.

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/component/content/article/436-adolescent-maternal-mortality-an-overlooked-crisis

This is the breakdown state by state, 1999 through 2007:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/mortality/gmwk23f.htm

You are wrong. Most girls under 15 who carry to term, do not die in childbirth in this country- or others. Yes, the mortality rate is higher but it isn't even close to your claim.

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Response to cali (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:34 AM

27. That mortality table is for ALL deaths

I made the claim for maternal mortality and morbidity in primaparas ages 10-15 ... not for mortality of everyone in that age group.

It's 3:30 am; I'm not going to be doing much more research tonight.

On edit: it IS 3:30 am and I did just have surgery not that long ago ... I'm not missing an argument FOR 12 YOs to give birth, am I?

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Response to REP (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:44 AM

28. No 12 year old should be pregnant but once a 12 year old

is pregnant, I believe it's her choice as long as long as her medical team agrees.

Choice means choice.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:33 PM

6. Funny I was just thinking about that.

IMO a 16 year old would need very little parental guidance to make the decision on whether or not to have an abortion. A 12 year old I think would need a lot more guidance and would not be a mother if she carried a baby to term. A 12 year old is simply not equipped to be a mother. So, the parents of a 12 year old would in fact end up being the parents. So, that is a lot tougher of a situation. Even a 16 year old with a child is somewhat problematic, but I would expect a 16 year old to be able to make all the small decisions of care and most the larger ones.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:39 PM

10. The parents are within their rights to tell the girl they won't raise their grandchild.

But they're not within their rights to force her to have an abortion. It's her body, her choice.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:46 PM

14. I think the parents also need to inform the child of the health risks at that age as well...

And of course the parents can refuse to raise the child, but that would mean putting their daughter out of their home as well. A 12 year old even if only taking care of herself isn't in any shape to live independently a 12 year old with a baby definitely will need someone to look after her and the baby. So, this will be a foster care situation. Then it is likely the grandparents may not be able to know the whereabouts of their child and grand child. But, Idk about that if they voluntarily give their child up to foster care. In Minnesota they parents would be financially liable for the foster care if they give up their child voluntarily so, if they can't afford that they will be on the hook to take care of both their child and grandchild, which they might also not be able to afford. This situation IMO is much different than an older teen with a baby, not by a million miles, but it is different. In this instance there are a lot more issues to think about. But, ultimately it will be a decision the 12 year old will have to make.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:35 PM

7. I Believe anyone that wants an abortion should be allowed one

This girl should have the baby if that is her wish. It would be cruel to force her to have an abortion.

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Response to newfie11 (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:39 PM

11. I personally could not force my daugher to have an abortion

don't think so, anyway

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Response to elehhhhna (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:50 PM

16. If I had been pregnant at 12, I wouldn't have been needed to be 'forced' into having an abortion

But I have no doubt my mother would not have let my life be so endangered by a full-term pregnancy at that age (it's pretty risky for a child that young to give birth). That's after she killed my rapist, of course.

I knew at age 9 I didn't want children, so if this had happened to me, no 'force' necessary.

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Response to REP (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:51 PM

19. I knew a 12 year old that was pregnant

She was very mature looking for 12. She carried the baby to term and gave it up for adoption. To my knowledge she had no resulting health problems. I was 15 at the time so may have missed more details.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:37 PM

9. It's her body, she should decide. Period. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:13 AM

30. should she be allowed to drink alcohol?

smoke? enter into contracts?

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Response to demwing (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:17 PM

31. None of those questions relate to her RIGHT TO CHOOSE

whether she goes through a pregnancy or not.

The right to choose doesn't apply only to the right to have an abortion; it also applies to the right not to have an abortion, because it is based on our right to privacy.

If her parents won't help her, she could give up the baby or she and the baby could go into foster care.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:40 PM

12. Obvious threat to physical and mental wellbeing...

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:06 PM

18. A 12 year old is at higher risk for complications

compared to a sixteen year old. She is more likely to have problems complying with any regimen prescribed by the doctor, more likely to need a C-section.

Ovulation in 12 year olds doesn't mean they are really ready to make babies yet.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:55 PM

20. I would feel sorry for everyone involved, but not have any sense that it was my business.

 

They're in a bad situation that resulted from some poor decisions.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:59 PM

21. I know someone who had a baby at 13

and is now my age. She had a more difficult life to be sure but all was well.

I think if it were my daughter (who is close to that age) I'd have her visit a doctor to make sure she knew the potential problems and a psychologist to make sure it was really what she wanted, but if she was well informed and wanted to have the baby, I would not make her have an abortion and I would support her and the baby if she decided not to place it for adoption.

I think abortion is a great option and I'm very glad the option exists, but I worry about how difficult it would be to be forced to have one against your will and grow up wondering about what the baby would have been like. To choose an abortion is to be at peace with it, but to have it forced when you don't want it is to always wish it hadn't happened and to always regret it. At least I see that as the most likely end circumstance.

I believe pro choice means allowing choices that make us uncomfortable.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 09:04 PM

22. I wouldn't let my nearly 12 year old BABYSIT a newborn.

The notion of any child that age parenting anyone is absurd, let alone one who has led the sort of sad, abused life that would result in a child that age being pregnant.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:19 PM

33. That isn't the issue. The right to privacy underpins every woman and girl's

right to have an abortion and the same right underpins their right to go through with a pregnancy.

What happens after a baby is born is a separate issue.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 09:06 PM

23. Her body, her choice. However as 12 years old is too young for custody, the parents should...

decide whether the infant is kept by the family or given up for adoption/foster system, etc. Those are the rules I'd make. So she can have the kid if she wants, but the parents get to decide if she keeps it. Such rules would apply until a pregnant child is 18 or is an emancipated minor.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:10 AM

29. I believe in a woman's right to choose

a 12 year old is a child, not a woman

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Response to demwing (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:18 PM

32. So everyone 17 years old and younger would not have the right to choose an abortion?

 

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Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:22 PM

34. Not what I said, is it?

A 12 year old child is not a woman.

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Response to demwing (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:23 PM

35. Technically, everyone under the age of 18 is a minor.

 

By this logic, a 17-year old who wanted an abortion could be prevented by her parents from getting one.

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Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:26 PM

36. A 12 year old child is not a woman

say whatever else you must, I stand by my point

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 01:43 AM

37. MY 12 year old is pregnant. FOR REAL.

This is gunna sound truly crazy but my daughter who is twelve is pregnant. I am so not happy about it. And I'm trying to find out what my rights are. I live in the state of Vermont, and seem to have no rights. I have begge and pleaded for her to abort. I've showed her all the medical risks and labor videos. And still all I get is, nothing. She seems to think shed be a murderer. But to carry on is murder to her self. She won't listen to reason or anything else. Now, because she's so young, I'm responsibile to make sure she's going to appointments and all else. But I have no say weather she keeps it or not?? She's only in the 7th grade. Not even in high school. Never even changed a diaper. And no, I'm not a parent that lets there children go gallavanting at all hours and acting like little hood rats. Simply put, she lied to me about where she was going and who she was going with. Long story short we find ourself in this situation. A f'ed up crappy one at that. She's only 7 weeks and her hands and feet are already so swollen it hurts for her o walk. If anyone has any legal information to help me with, PLEASE do so. Or any moms in this situation PLEASE HELP. I'm dying on the inside!!

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 01:54 AM

38. I am so sorry for your dilemma, MichelleB!

Since this discussion was from February, you might get a better response if you posted in one of these groups. Welcome to DU and hope that you get both support and some answers here.


Parenting (Group)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1160

Pro-Choice (Group)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1152

Vermont (Group)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1080

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #38)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 03:32 AM

39. Thanks!!

thanks!! Unfortunately I haven't responded to enough links to start my own? Kinda odd. Anyway, in this situation, due to the whole patient privacy acts, I never had to be informed that she was pregnant. Yet because she went to planned parenthood, because I had scheduled the appointment, they contacted DCF and I know have them watching to make sure I make her go to all the appointments. Yet I don't have to be informed of them?? And when at the appointment, she had no idea WHAT a spectulm was or what it did. She was all for aborting until the boyfriend had something to say about it. He'd leave her. She was a murderer and everything else he could fill her head with. Doctors told her about her risks but she doesn't acknowledge. Yet, she didn't even know what the term bowel movement was!! Not that u would really expect a twelve year old too!! Yet.. Once again.. I get no say. I don't understand how that works. But god forbid she's not making the appointments!! I'm held responsible!! Not to mention, I'm not in a good spot financially yet who will end up paying for it?? She can't. She is t even old enough to get welfare. So what to do??

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #39)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 03:59 AM

40. Perhaps you need to talk to an attorney?

Since she is a young child and you are responsible for her, wouldn't you be her medical proxy? If would also help if you had a sympathetic doctor or someone at Planned Parenthood who's experienced in counseling who could speak to her.

The dangers are obvious, but what about the rest of her life? Teenagers have trouble looking ahead and seeing the big picture, only live in the now, so I can't imagine how it is with a 12-year-old child. She's certainly not old enough to live on her own, get a job, and legally she needs to be in school.

Do you know the boyfriend's parents? A touchy subject, especially if he's just as young, but they have to be having the same feelings that you are, if they know. I'd find a responsible counselor, someone she sees as impartial who might be able to explain the facts to her who she might listen to.

You really do have a dilemma and there has to be some help out there. And someone on DU might be able to steer you in the right direction... You can start your own thread after 10 replies.

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:30 AM

41. So frustrating.

Yes. As a minor, I am her proxy but when it comes to this, the abortion law is her body her choice. And if she was even 15, though I wouldn't want that either, I wouldn't try to push abortion on her. But she's not even old enough to know what the term bowel movement is yet!! She's not responsible or mature enough to make that choice. She doesn't know what it's like to be pregnant. She hasn't even had a babysitting job yet!! Never mind that she's only had her period a year and just started blooming. She doesn't even where a coat with out an argument!! What does that say?? I've talked to family court and I'm told there really isn't much I can do. The boyfriends parents want her to keep it!! That'd crazy!! He's 15. She's not. An yet nothing I can do. I think in this situation it should be my choice and not hers. As she just doesn't kno what's best for herself yet!!

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #41)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:32 AM

42. Well, I happen to agree with you. She's way too young to make such decisions.

And this is her life you're talking about. She has no idea at such a young age. Perhaps you could talk to someone at Planned Parenthood or to a counselor to advise her. Certainly no one her own age can possibly have a clue. She's just a child, so can't be expected to understand, and it makes no sense that the boyfriend's parents can't realize that. We're not even talking about a teenager here. Since you are her medical proxy, and her parent and guardian, that should count for a lot. I'd still consult a lawyer and/or an experienced counselor, since it's not just a difference of opinion, but a child who needs help to make a decision that's in her own interest, which she's just not capable of at such a young age. I am so sorry that you're faced with this...

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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #42)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:40 PM

52. Wrong, it's her body and this is not life threatening

although it's risky--at any age.

Besides, my bullshit meter is pinned.

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 12:55 PM

43. Michelle, I just want to say...

...that I am so sorry for your situation. A very enlightening and thought provoking post. Btw, welcome to DU.

You've got me thinking about something that I never imagined might be an issue. As I sit here, not in your position, I tell myself that if I were in your situation I would have taken my daughter to the doctor or PP and had them give her the morning after pill. That shows you how ignorant I am on such things.

My next step would be the abortion but I'm sitting her stunned to find out that you have no say in this matter. That you can't, as the mother of a 12 year old daughter, authorize her to receive an abortion.

Maybe you could take her to some kind of counseling to try to help her choose the abortion on her own.

I not some crazy pro abortion advocate that pushes abortion on everyone. I just think that if there was ever a case for early pregnancy termination, this would be it.

Having a baby is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and should in the real world, be given plenty of forethought and planning. Decisions that your daughter is not mature enough to make or emotionally capable of making at her age. She is still a child!

My opinion, possibly not a popular opinion, is that accidental pregnancy in a 12 year old girl, for whatever reason, should be treated as an illness/accident and treated accordingly. Your child gets pneumonia, you give them penicillin. Broken arm, you have the break set with a cast. Pregnancy...you terminate the pregnancy.

Ok, I've gone on long enough. I'm just so surprised that you don't have more legal say in your situation.

I wish you the best.

TYY

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Response to TeeYiYi (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:51 PM

49. grrr. no one should be forced to bear a child or have an abortion. NO ONE

it's maddening to see people here supporting forcing a girl to have an abortion. Choice mean choice. Period.

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 01:20 PM

44. Welcome to DU, MichelleB.

How is your primary care physician handling your daughter's current medical problems brought on by this pregnancy? She needs counseling with a social worker.

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 02:35 PM

45. Michelle. I reposted your question for you as an OP in General Discussion...

Here is a link to your new thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022661346

Hope this helps you.

TYY

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:18 PM

46. Her body her choice. Discuss adoption or try to find the father & his parents to discuss.

Sorry you're going through this difficult time.

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:31 PM

47. Welcome to DU MichelleB!

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 04:31 PM

48. You cannot force your daughter to have an abortion and you certainly shouldn't have

the right to do so. Period.

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:21 PM

50. bullshit.

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 06:48 PM

53. If her hands and feet are painfully swollen at 7 weeks, she needs medical care, stat. n/t

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 13, 2013, 04:02 AM

54. Assuming this is real...

...The choice of whether or not to have the baby is up to the female that is pregnant.....not her parents or their lawyers. There are good reasons for her to have the baby, and there are good reasons for her to not have the baby. If you are a good parent, you'll make sure she's exposed to all the info, and you'll support her choice.

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 13, 2013, 11:38 AM

55. Here's some information.

Minor’s Rights

A minor’s rights in Vermont are the same regardless of whether the choice is to have an abortion or
carry the child to term.

• In Vermont, a minor 14 years old or older can petition the court for a guardian if she is having a
dispute with her parents over her pregnancy.
• A minor has the right to decide to abort her pregnancy or carry it to term.
• Parents are not legally allowed to insist that a minor child give her baby up for adoption.
• The Vermont Department of Child and Family Services (DCF) may become involved if the minor
has been abused or neglected, or is unmanageable.

There are no laws that require a minor in Vermont to obtain her parents’ permission in
order to get an abortion. However, since parents have legal authority over most of their
children’s health care decisions, individual doctors might have various practices about sharing the
minor’s health information with her parents.

If this is a concern for you, be sure to ask whether or not you will be seen confidentially
and whether your medical records will be provided to your parents before choosing an
abortion or birth control provider.

Crisis Pregnancy Centers

Vermont does not regulate crisis pregnancy centers. There is no state oversight to ensure they provide
accurate information regarding pregnancy and abortion. Crisis Pregnancy Centers do not provide
abortion services or referrals for abortion services. They can assist you if you are pregnant, in need of
support, and have made the choice to carry your pregnancy to term.


http://women.vermont.gov/sites/women/files/pdf/Chapter%2012%20Reproductive%20Rights.pdf

http://www.guttmacher.org/datacenter/profiles/VT.jsp

http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OMCL.pdf

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Response to MichelleB (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 13, 2013, 05:46 PM

56. If you haven't reported the

(likely non-existent) pregnancy to authorities, then you are aiding and abetting child rape.

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Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Fri Apr 12, 2013, 05:41 PM

51. Difficult situation.

Parents have total legal say versus parents have no legal say.

I strongly dislike both options. If I had to choose one, I would choose parents have no legal say, but I would love to hear other options.

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