HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Oklahoma: Insist That Peo...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:16 PM

Oklahoma: Insist That People Coexisted With Dinosaurs…and Get an A in Science Class!

Intelligence is so elitist.

In biology class, public school students can't generally argue that dinosaurs and people ran around Earth at the same time, at least not without risking a big fat F. But that could soon change for kids in Oklahoma: On Tuesday, the Oklahoma Common Education committee is expected to consider a House bill that would forbid teachers from penalizing students who turn in papers attempting to debunk almost universally accepted scientific theories such as biological evolution and anthropogenic (human-driven) climate change.

Gus Blackwell, the Republican state representative who introduced the bill, insists that his legislation has nothing to do with religion; it simply encourages scientific exploration. "I proposed this bill because there are teachers and students who may be afraid of going against what they see in their textbooks," says Blackwell, who previously spent 20 years working for the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma. "A student has the freedom to write a paper that points out that highly complex life may not be explained by chance mutations."

Stated another way, students could make untestable, faith-based claims in science classes without fear of receiving a poor mark.

HB 1674 is the latest in an ongoing series of "academic freedom" bills aimed at watering down the teaching of science on highly charged topics. Instead of requiring that teachers and textbooks include creationism—see the bill proposed by Missouri state Rep. Rick Brattin—HB 1674's crafters say it merely encourages teachers and students to question, as the bill puts it, the "scientific strengths and weaknesses" of topics that "cause controversy," including "biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning."


http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/02/oklahoma-hr1674-science-evolution-climate-change

127 replies, 11100 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 127 replies Author Time Post
Reply Oklahoma: Insist That People Coexisted With Dinosaurs…and Get an A in Science Class! (Original post)
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2013 OP
MrScorpio Feb 2013 #1
SidDithers Feb 2013 #3
naaman fletcher Feb 2013 #71
0rganism Feb 2013 #86
ballaratocker Feb 2013 #98
SidDithers Feb 2013 #2
OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #4
SidDithers Feb 2013 #8
Tempest Feb 2013 #78
SidDithers Feb 2013 #79
TriEssent May 2013 #124
hrmjustin May 2013 #125
trumad Feb 2013 #9
OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #13
trumad Feb 2013 #16
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #18
trumad Feb 2013 #20
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #21
trumad Feb 2013 #23
gejohnston Feb 2013 #97
xmas74 Feb 2013 #104
Bandit Feb 2013 #26
kiri Feb 2013 #68
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #80
xtraxritical Feb 2013 #89
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #109
BeeBee Feb 2013 #31
Apophis Feb 2013 #50
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #58
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #73
0rganism Feb 2013 #88
JHB Feb 2013 #100
Shadowflash Feb 2013 #106
skepticscott Feb 2013 #119
jpak Feb 2013 #11
TrogL Feb 2013 #12
midwest irish Feb 2013 #116
LonePirate Feb 2013 #15
Nevernose Feb 2013 #53
TrogL Feb 2013 #122
Volaris Feb 2013 #76
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #17
OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #25
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #34
dlwickham Feb 2013 #45
cali Feb 2013 #24
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #33
Walk away Feb 2013 #35
GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #38
LeftinOH Feb 2013 #5
midwest irish Feb 2013 #117
redstatebluegirl Feb 2013 #6
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #7
backtoblue Feb 2013 #10
trumad Feb 2013 #19
backtoblue Feb 2013 #29
trumad Feb 2013 #30
Blecht Feb 2013 #62
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #82
Throckmorton Feb 2013 #102
xtraxritical Feb 2013 #90
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #110
backtoblue Feb 2013 #112
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #113
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #36
kiri Feb 2013 #69
Marrah_G Feb 2013 #75
joeybee12 Feb 2013 #14
cali Feb 2013 #22
hughee99 Feb 2013 #27
Occulus Feb 2013 #43
hughee99 Feb 2013 #48
Occulus Feb 2013 #49
hughee99 Feb 2013 #56
Initech Feb 2013 #28
Rex Feb 2013 #32
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2013 #41
riderinthestorm Feb 2013 #37
kairos12 Feb 2013 #39
OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #40
GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #42
Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #44
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #46
JI7 Feb 2013 #47
Apophis Feb 2013 #51
still_one Feb 2013 #52
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #54
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #55
Lint Head Feb 2013 #57
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #59
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #60
Notafraidtoo Feb 2013 #61
MynameisBlarney Feb 2013 #63
Fla Dem Feb 2013 #64
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #65
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #83
trusty elf Feb 2013 #99
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #85
LibertyLover Feb 2013 #87
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #66
IDemo Feb 2013 #67
RoccoR5955 Feb 2013 #94
rwsanders Feb 2013 #70
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #72
Wolf Frankula Feb 2013 #74
Ezlivin Feb 2013 #77
stuntcat Feb 2013 #81
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #84
blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #91
Stonepounder Feb 2013 #92
yellowcanine Feb 2013 #93
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #95
triplepoint Feb 2013 #96
Turbineguy Feb 2013 #101
mwb970 Feb 2013 #103
skepticscott Feb 2013 #120
MrYikes Feb 2013 #105
intaglio May 2013 #127
damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #107
iandhr Feb 2013 #108
exboyfil May 2013 #126
stevenleser Feb 2013 #111
Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #114
benld74 Feb 2013 #115
fromwyoming Feb 2013 #118
The Flaming Red Head Feb 2013 #121
YoungDemCA Feb 2013 #123

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:19 PM

1. Is Blackwell even aware that some OK students would eventually like to get into good colleges? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:20 PM

3. They can't all go to Liberty University, can they?...nt

Sid

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SidDithers (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:20 PM

71. Problem solved, locally:

 

http://snu.edu/

http://www.oru.edu/

http://www.oc.edu/

I used to teach at one of these. I won't say which.

Yes, I needed the money.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:13 PM

86. seems like he's far more interested in making sure they attend an approved church

but if that's who the Good People of Oklahoma choose for their leadership, then they, and their children, will be left to reap the whirlwind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrScorpio (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:27 AM

98. He doesn't want them in good colleges.

He wants them to stay in the same bubble they have always lived in so they don't get to see what the outside world is like. Then they can keep voting Republican and he can stay in office.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:19 PM

2. Dumbasses...`

Hope they get their heads handed to them, like the Intelligent Designers did in Dover, PA.

Thanks for posting.

Sid

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:27 PM

8. No. A science paper is graded on the understanding of the science in the paper...

"Gawd did it" isn't science.

Sid

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SidDithers (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:04 PM

78. Court has ruled in the Dover case that creationism isn't science

An F would be an appropriate grade.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tempest (Reply #78)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:08 PM

79. Dover was a great ruling...

and even better is the fact that Michael Behe got his ass handed to him by both the attorney for the plaintiff, and the judge.



Sid

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tempest (Reply #78)

Tue May 28, 2013, 10:26 PM

124. The Courts

So..do you really think that the court is the best qualified to pass judgement on what IS science? Because the court says so....it must be?

D

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TriEssent (Reply #124)

Tue May 28, 2013, 10:51 PM

125. IWell Creationism is not science and I say this as a Chrisian. As for the courts they are there for

the hard choices. Welcome to Du.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:27 PM

9. Did you really just write that?

So if it is articulated that Fred rode Dino---and it was written in an articulate way, that student should get a good grade?

Is that what you are saying?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trumad (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:30 PM

13. I also said, "Well supported". Being well-articulate alone isn't enough.

 

A student who can make a convincing, well-supported, insightful, observant and well-reasoned argument for creationism in a 7-page paper should deserve a better grade than a student who writes one sentence, for instance, "Evolution is correct because my friends tell me so" and leaves it at that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:32 PM

16. "well-supported"

How can fiction be "well supported".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trumad (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:34 PM

18. "Well supported" as in: "Derrrrr ... Gawd done sed it in the book he done rited!"

There ya go!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:35 PM

20. I love arguing with Creationist....

It really is too damn easy and fascinating at the same time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trumad (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:37 PM

21. Also a wee bit depressing.

*sigh*

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:38 PM

23. Sigh is the right expression for sure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trumad (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:01 AM

97. I think that was the point,

set some kid up for an impossible task.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #97)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:32 AM

104. That's what I got from the message.

If the student could write a well articulated paper, if they could offer valid sources, if, if, if. It's a losing battle but a student is welcome to try.

The lawmakers, otoh, are full of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:42 PM

26. Do you understand there is a difference between Scientific Theory and common theory

Once Science has determined something to be Theory, it is considered Fact...Theories are not just some abstract thinking.. To become a Theory there has to be one hypothesis after another that is subject to peer review and this is done until there is NO One in the Scientific Community that can refute the hypothesis. Once that has happened which usually takes years and years the hypothesis is elevated to Theory and there it will remain until proven false.. Another "Theory" does not prove it false.. It just does not work that way..When you are being taught Science, you are being taught truth as is understood by the Entire scientific community. Science class is not the place to introduce untested Theory...It just does not work that way..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bandit (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:48 AM

68. Gravity is Just a Theory

Consider:

Gravity is Just a Theory
http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/schempp.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kiri (Reply #68)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:17 PM

80. Gravity consisntently kills those that don't believe in it. And many that do.

Or those who try to defy it.



I fear Gravity more than some random deity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kiri (Reply #68)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:55 PM

89. Newtowian mechanics explained gravity quite well for hundreds of years before Einstein

 

came along and it was replaced with Einstein's theory. Einsteins theory may be improved upon with String Theory. How do you put a saddle on a dinosaur? Very carefully.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xtraxritical (Reply #89)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:54 PM

109. Einsteins's theory of gravity did NOT replace Newton's theory, it includes Newton's theory. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:48 PM

31. It is impossible to make a scientifically "well supported" argument for

creationism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:55 PM

50. There is no evidence to support creationism.

 

Any paper that is written to support creationism in a science class deserves an "F" grade.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:20 AM

58. If they can pull it off, forget the grade, they will be looking at a Nobel Prize n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:53 PM

73. Even Behe, ON THE STAND under oath admitted creationism isn't science.

Full stop. There it is. Debate over.

You can't 'well support' complete fucking gibberish that has not a goddamn thing to do with science, in a science-related paper.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:19 PM

88. anyone who wastes a science teacher's time with 7 pages of creationist wank deserves an F

The student who writes, "Evolution is correct because my friends tell me so" is possibly still teachable.

The student who writes 7 pages of "well-reasoned" creationism has been trained by their religion to stop learning science.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:03 AM

100. Well, then that student can get an F+ instead of an F...

...for the tweet masquerading as a paper.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:19 AM

106. If creationism is to be taught side by side

With evolution in a SCIENCE class, how far away is teaching biological reproduction side by side with the alternative 'Stork theory'?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 08:05 AM

119. Even "professional" creationists

Can't make "well-supported" arguments with affirmative evidence for creationism. All they ever do is try to poke teensy (and meaningless) little holes in evolutionary science, and even that always, always falls apart under a moment's scrutiny from people who know what they're talking about.

You really need to go back to Science 101...if you were ever there. But now I suppose you're going to tell us all about your extensive scientific training, and how it taught you to be "open-minded" and not "dogmatic"? The usual creationist woo-woo?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:29 PM

11. Creationist douchebaggery, no matter how well articulated or written

deserves a F in science class.

yup

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:29 PM

12. That's not how science works

They were giving Fs to evolutionists 150 years ago (were they?) because they weren't teaching science.

I still like one of my former Priest's take on it. "In the beginning God created the heavens, the earth and all the creatures on it. The methodology He used was evolution. Where is the problem?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TrogL (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:54 PM

116. former Priest

 

That's the problem. The catholic church accepts evolution as compatible with scriptures and their theology. Evangelical protestants (the one's making a fuss about this) do not accept it at all. They believe in a literal, word for word, interpretation of the Bible. Of course if you ask them about some parts they will says its an allegory or not to be taken literally. However when it comes to creationism they have drawn their line in the evolutionary sand. Heck, many think that Catholics aren't christian and that the pope is the anti-christ. They have explicitly rejected the idea that God used evolution.

What your Priest said versus what evangelicals believe is like night and day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:31 PM

15. Good luck finding a scientifically supported case for creationism in a high school science report

If a student puts wrong information on their math test, they will fail. I don't see how putting scientifically unsubstantiated hogwash in a science paper is any different. The student is not writing a paper for their theology class.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LonePirate (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:58 PM

53. My daughter asked me what "imaginary numbers" were

I said, "Honey, I'm an English teacher. If you have a question about proto-feminist poets of early Victorian England, I can help, but I am essentially innumerate. So if you're asking me to explain imaginary numbers, go in the backyard and count the number of unicorns you see. That's the best I've got."

So we hired a math tutor...

(Sorry for the brain droppings!)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nevernose (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 11:34 AM

122. Somebody brought that up in an argument in favour of Biblical literalism

Apparently he thinks "imaginary numbers" are taken on faith.

I pointed out that those "imaginary" numbers are very real. If they didn't exist, neither would your cell phone.

It's the same logic by people saying that "E=mc^2" doesn't exist. I ask them to please explain the following:


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LonePirate (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 02:36 PM

76. OR for an English Professor.

By the logic and standards of thi bill, Physics Instructors might as well just make students watch re-runs of Star Trek, and turn in papers on that. (And just because it would probably breed a better generation of Science Majors than re-runs of The Flintstones, DOES NOT make this a good idea.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:32 PM

17. "Evolutionist view" ... Uh, you mean "the view" of 99.99999999999 percent of all legit scientists?

Evolution, the very foundation of biology -- Is that what you're talking about? The "theory" that is "controversial" among the non-stupid in the way the "theory" that the Earth is more spherical than flat is controversial? The thing that is NOT based on silly hallucinogenic desert mythology from 2,000 years ago? The thing that is rooted in fact and observation, not fiction, and should be taught in a SCIENCE class? That evolution?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:39 PM

25. You're comparing apples and oranges. n/t.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #25)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:49 PM

34. "Apples" as in the apple that the first woman on the planet ate, you know, 4,000-6,000

years ago, before she apparently had incestuous relations with her sons to populate the planet and before the bearded dude put two of all the animals on the big boat? Wow, think about that -- because there are about 400,000 species of beetles on the planet, and, of course God must have made them all "as is," right?, wow, old Noah must have had to have made a shitload of cargo space just for beetles!

Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of peer-reviewed scientific sources to support that version of things!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:36 PM

45. LOL

very good!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:39 PM

24. bzzzt. gigantic fail. Science is fact based and fantasy

has no fucking place in science class. EVER.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:49 PM

33. You gotta be kidding me...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:50 PM

35. This has to be sarcasm!

No one in their right mind considers creationism a viable theory. Graduating from a school that teaches Dino sciences should disqualify a student from a degree in the Sciences unless they are evaluated by a board of real scientists from real schools.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:58 PM

38. You're joking, right?

And if you're not, then you really don't have an understanding of what science does.

But I suspect you may not be joking which is really unfortunate.



And no matter how well articulated that paper may be, it would still be based on a faulty premise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:24 PM

5. "Academic freedom" = the right to be ignorant. The Stupid Party strikes again!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LeftinOH (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:01 PM

117. Remember about 7 or 8 years ago

 

when there was legislation in Ohio saying professors had to include the conservative version of things in their curriculum because colleges were "just too liberal." It failed but it was frightening that it was even proposed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:24 PM

6. The ignorant Oklahoma Legislature

will not stop until they get this approved. We tried to have a scientific conversation with one elected official regarding my husband's research. All he was concerned with was if it was "against the teachings of the bible".

We have to work down here to reestablish the Democratic party and challenge these folks. It can be done, I know it can. I think it will be a lot of work fighting organized religion who press politics from the pulpit but I really believe if we work at it we can convince people that their interests are not being served by these people. I know, it may not be possible, but I think we have to at least try rather than throw in the towel!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:25 PM

7. and apples are the fruit of the devil

snakes could talk at one time
six people populated the world

the things one can learn in school

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:28 PM

10. The great scientists of our past looked outside the theories and laws of their times.

I personally don't agree with creationism, but as long as evolution is taught and studied, students should have the right to do research and try to elaborate on their findings.


Study what your science teachers are teaching, memorize it and get good grades, then you can write your own thesis and present your supporting evidence.


Please don't yell at me for my thoughts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:34 PM

19. But how can you support evidence that does not exist?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trumad (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:44 PM

29. Very true

If one truly believes in something, then I encourage that person to do the research necessary to prove their thoughts.

Teach what we know to be true in the classroom, but encourage broader participation and don't belittle another's beliefs.

Keep evolution as our theory(law) of existance. I believe in the science evolution. There are many people who do not. I just think that pushing those to do the research and provide results is how we've gotten this far in science today. We didn't get the information we have today by denying anyone their beliefs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:45 PM

30. You belittle them by giving them an F for bullshit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:18 AM

62. You really need to take a science class

And make sure you do not take it in Oklahoma.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:23 PM

82. I believe that Pi = 3, as stated in the Bible.

Do I get an "A" ?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #82)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:34 AM

102. Is that in the Book of Armaments?

Because as I recall, "the number of the counting shall be three".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:05 PM

90. It's a theory about evolution called "natural selection" thru mutation.

 

Mendelson did it with peas, first. It's been established by scientists in many species.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:00 PM

110. That totally backwards. Anyone who can "prove their thoughts" pro creationism deserves a Nobel prize

If you knew the most fundamental thing about science you would understand that science is not about belief.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #110)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:07 PM

112. I didn't say that they could prove it. I said they should try to if that's what they believe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #112)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:16 PM

113. They can try all they want. They will still get a richly deserved F.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:52 PM

36. I believe rainbow-sparkle unicorns exist. My source? My own ass. I pulled that theory out of it.

Give me my "A" now, please!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backtoblue (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:53 AM

69. Evolution is Not a religion

http://concordareahumanists.org/blog/201301/evolution-religion
Is Evolution a Religion?
By Ellery Schempp

IDists claim that there is an "intelligent design" view and that
evolution is "an equal religion". They usually say "Darwinism". Of
course, there is no such thing as "Darwinism", this is a word made up
by IDists to label those who do not accept their views. Let's
consider what characterizes traditional religions and whether
evolution is a religion. The historical record shows numerous
distinctions.

The Theory of Evolution is not a religion.

Evolution has no priests, pastors, ministers, preachers, bishops,
ayatollahs, imams, mullahs, prophets (or televangelical profits). No
holy books or sacred scriptures. It has no holidays, no feast days,
no canonized saints. It depends on no miracles. It gets no tax
exemptions.

Evolution has no alter boys, no prayers, no church establishments, no
edifices with crosses, stars or crescents, no churches or temples, no
coming-of-age rituals like Bar Mitzvah or confirmation.

Evolution has no banned books, no warnings about heresy or blasphemy,
no record of burning witches or heretics, no public displays of piety
or prayer, no holy book supposed to contain "All Truth", no creed to
be ritually recited. Evolution does not define pagans or infidels.
There are no mythological beliefs or transubstantiations.

Evolution has no history of torturing non-believers, has never
started a war, never burned an opponent at the stake. The idea of
evolution has no record of sex scandals. No record of financial
fraud. No record of trying to get a passport stamped for entry into
heaven. Evolution offers no condemnations to hell nor promises of an
after-life.

Evolution does not support occult beliefs. The scientific theory of
evolution has no dependence on a supernatural deity or pixies; no
prayer rituals, no burial rituals, no sacraments. There are no
invisible beings, gods, deities, devils, demons, ghosts, satans,
angels, spirits, cherubim, seraphim, faeries, or a soul. Evolution
recognizes no destructions as "acts of God" nor acts of violence
as "acts of Satan or an anti-christ."

Evolution does not depend on blind faith; it offers no argument from
authority; no conclusion first, facts second. There is no body
of "apologetics" from the theory of evolution.

The above are evidences of religion. The idea of evolution, which is
based on observation of the natural world as we see it, does not have
any of the attributes of religion. Indeed, evolution is the
opposite, it welcomes energetic inquiries and thoughtful inputs.

Evolution looks not to miracles to understand the world around us.
Evolution, as all science, looks to evidence that we can see and
understand and test. Neither evolution nor any scientific construct
claims to offer moral or political guidance.

Evolution is consistent with a democratic outlook in which the rights
of the people are derived from the people. Evolution is not
consistent with the view that the natural world is only revealed by
authorities or a view that rights derive from authorities, especially
not from authorities anointed under a doctrine of the Divine Right of
Kings or one or another "holy scripture". It is the natural world as all can see and understand, and it
depends on no revelations, no sacred texts.

The Theory of Evolution, the Theory of Gravity, the Germ Theory of
Disease are not religion and not religious. Just because you think
something is true does not make it a religion.

The theory of evolution is the antithesis of traditional religions;
it champions the free mind, and the spirit of free inquiry to see
where facts, observations, and the power of reason as the human mind
leads.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kiri (Reply #69)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 02:29 PM

75. You should make this it's own post!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:31 PM

14. ALEC sponsored legislation...they're doing it in other states...phuckers...knr

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:37 PM

22. This is just more batshit insane legislation that doesn't stand a chance.

Republicans catering to their batshit crazy constituents. I'm beginning to think this is a deliberate tactic: First propose something totally batshit to soften things up, then propose something less batshit, but still crazy and hope that has a chance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:42 PM

27. I don't have an issue with students not accepting everything they're being taught in science class

provided they can make their argument using the scientific method. I'm not in favor or anyone getting an A for opposing a scientific position based on faith, though.

Look at older models of the atom and (going back further) the solar system... or even phlogiston. At one time, and even today, I'm sure students are being presented with science that is inaccurate due to our incomplete understanding of how things work. I don't want to discourage them from thinking on their own, but I don't think they should be rewarded for arguing a scientific viewpoint that they can't support using science.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hughee99 (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:26 PM

43. Creationism is not not not a scientific viewpoint.

End of discussion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #43)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 08:58 PM

48. If a student wants to bang his head against the wall trying to prove creationism

using scientific method, I'm all for it. Sometimes the best way to convince someone of something is to let them figure it out for themselves. If a student wants to try to prove that cinder blocks can fly on their own power, by they time the go through the study, I think they'll be convinced that they're wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hughee99 (Reply #48)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:49 PM

49. No, creationism has an invisible deity as a component, which is by definition unprovable.

If faith could be proven, it would be science. It's not. It's faith, and has no place being allowed serious discussion in a science classroom.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #49)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:20 AM

56. Then let the student realize that for themselves.

I'm not proposing they spend class time on it, but if a student wants to write a paper on it, make them use the scientific method and prove their assertions.

Yes, I realize they won't be able to. That's the point. Let them learn the hard way if necessary.

Frankly, I wouldn't have an issue if, on day one, the professor gave an "on your own time" assignment "Prove god exists" using scientific method, and then not discuss creationism again until someone shows actual scientific proof. "If you want to discuss it as science, show proof, until then, we'll dedicate our time to provable scientific study and leave the study of faith to others".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:43 PM

28. When did the American Taliban take over our schools?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:49 PM

32. Sure, why the fuck not!?!?!

Hell can we also throw in Alien ancestors? How about ZOMBIES? Virus zombies, of course, not the religious kind...unless someone is game?


BRAWNDO! ITS GOT WHAT PLANTS CRAVE!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:05 PM

41. Let's not forget Vampires and werewolves

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 05:53 PM

37. A kick for more eyes on OK and its craziness. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:01 PM

39. If this is science education in Oklahoma, better check to see where your Doctor is from--the SOONER

the better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:04 PM

40. Not to nitpick with the thread title,

 

but I don't think the proposal is that students get A's for advocating creationism, but rather, that they won't get F's solely for doing so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #40)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:21 PM

42. They should be getting F's for advocating "creationism"

Or as the AIG folks would style it "Intelligent Design".

The Dover, PA case made if very clear that "ID"/"Creationism" is religious at its base and that base is that "Gawd did it!". It has no place in science class. And anyone trying to make a case for it is deserving of ridicule and failing grades.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #40)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:33 PM

44. Well, in a biology course, they should...

keep the creationism in a world religions or mythology class or something...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #40)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:42 PM

46. Creationism is completely and utterly unverifiable nonsense based on a fictional work

known as the "bible". It has ZERO basis in science. Students who argue in favor of it deserve an F because it demonstrates that they have learned absolutely nothing in their science class.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #40)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 06:46 PM

47. in a Science Class it should

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:58 PM

51. Wow... just...wow.

 



Anyone who writes a paper in science class that presents creationism as fact deserves an F in the class.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:58 PM

52. Actually the Democrats in Congress are trying to coexist with dinosaurs, but the dinosaurs are an

Extremely bigoted group

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #52)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:04 AM

54. If only a targeted meteorite would take them out ...

Is it possible to get a benevolently evil or evilly benevolent scientist to harness and direct a meteor directly into the next large RNC meeting?

Hmmm, a girl can dream, can't she?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:05 AM

55. There is plenty of photographic evidence proving this theory.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:23 AM

57. Gee I wish I could have received an A for whatever I believed was a correct answer on exams.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:24 AM

59. That's like giving students an A in "Abstinence Only" class, for having sex on a desk.

I mean, it's a valid alternate viewpoint, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:25 AM

60. If this passes you will see some hillarious "science" papers. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:08 AM

61. lol

If you cant use the scientific method to make your case its not science its something else case closed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:10 AM

63. They are encouraging and rewarding

their own children for being willfully ignorant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:25 AM

64. Of course humans and dinosaurs co-existed. I have proof.

What more do you need to believe it? The Flintstones had one as a pet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fla Dem (Reply #64)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:32 AM

65. More proof?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #65)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:26 PM

83. Jesus said: "Let the little Sinosauropteryx and Microceratops come to me, and forbid them not,

for such is the Kingdom of Fred and Wilma." Amen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #83)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:29 AM

99. He also said.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fla Dem (Reply #64)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:09 PM

85. Flintstones - who's the green guy????

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #85)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:19 PM

87. That's the Great Gazoo

He was banished from the planet Zetox for having invented a doomsday device.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:45 AM

66. Where Oklahoma Common Education Committee fits into the grand scheme of things:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:47 AM

67. It's pasta, all the way down

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IDemo (Reply #67)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:56 PM

94. RAmen! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:12 PM

70. Will they be able to use episodes of "The Flintstones" or Jim Henson's "Dinosaurs" as references?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 01:27 PM

72. They probably got their ideas from the Ica stones of Peru....



....and....



....and a temple carving from Cambodia....




Hey, can I turn this in for distance learning credits?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 02:23 PM

74. If I were A Kid in an Oklahoma History Class

And I claimed Jesus prevented Columbus from sailing off the edge of a flat world, could I get an A?

Supposed I claimed Gitchee Manitou created everything?

Wolf

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 02:42 PM

77. "...afraid of going against what they see in their textbooks"

How far are they willing to go with this line of "reasoning"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:20 PM

81. k & r

This is #humanity .
Sure some scientists and poets and artists are fantastic, but as a mass just look at this shyt.. we are a sad failure who'll burn and ruin our way through the rest of this century.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:34 PM

84. Lewis Black on creationism:




Neil deGrasse Tyson on science and faith:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:59 PM

91. oklahoma:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:39 PM

92. Well, I'm moving to Oklahoma!

My kid sincerely believes that 2+2=5 and I'll be dammed if I will allow any teacher to mark him down for his sincerely held belief!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:44 PM

93. Academic freedom doesn't mean a student can put wrong answers on a test and still get credit.

Dumbass. If that law passes and I were a teacher in Oklahoma I would make up tests with two choices for answers:
"Please indicate the correct answer by circling it. In the space next to the question indicate what you and the Oklahoma legislature would LIKE to be the answer."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:32 PM

95. Once again another state attempts to prove that ignorance can be taught

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:50 PM

96. Oh the Humanity!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:09 AM

101. That's what made the Dark Ages bearable

The ignorance! Sure, life was brutish and short, but it was normal. Republicans may be doing us a favor. You can't like their policies unless you are stupid, so..... make everybody stupid and their ideas will seem like good ideas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:13 AM

103. This is child abuse.

These poor kids will be left behind in the quest for good jobs by people who were taught facts instead of fantasy in school. It reminds me of what Jindal did to the kids in Louisiana, and what Texas is trying to do to its children. How terrible it must be to live in a backwards, right-wing "red state"!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mwb970 (Reply #103)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 09:39 AM

120. Careful...on the religion board

saying that will get you branded as a bigot by the knicker-twisted apologists.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 08:17 AM

105. Does electricity still flow from positive to negative? nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrYikes (Reply #105)

Wed May 29, 2013, 03:21 AM

127. Technically the "holes" do

in semiconductors ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:03 AM

107. Welcome to Costco

I love you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 01:52 PM

108. I guess the GOP didn't get Jindal's memo...

about how they have to stop being the stupid party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iandhr (Reply #108)

Tue May 28, 2013, 11:35 PM

126. Have you read the Louisiana Science Education Act

which Jindahl supports? Getting past the fact that it is hogwash, it is not even consistent.

"...that promotes critical thinking skills, logical analysis, and open and objective discussion of scientific theories being studied including, but not limited to, evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning."

Human cloning and the origins of life are not scientific theories. Human cloning is a process. No reputable scientist claims that we have a theory of the origins of life. We have several hypothesis that are working their way to the testable stage, but no "scientific" theories. Global warming again is not a theory - it is either happening or is not happening (a fact). The scientific theory would be that global warming occurs through introducing higher levels of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases than what has been seen throughout human history (Anthropogenic Global Warming). Evolution is the only scientific theory even on the list.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 02:00 PM

111. Sharing far and wide. thanks for letting us know about this. Unbe-effing-believable. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 04:40 PM

114. It would do less damage to these kids if they just stopped teaching altogether. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 05:44 PM

115. Let'em watch The Flinstones for their science, it would be right up their alley,,,,

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:15 AM

118. What really weirds me out about this is...

...the phrase in the first paragraph that says "...students who turn in papers attempting to debunk almost universally accepted scientific theories such as biological evolution ..." What is the word "almost" doing in that sentence? I really want to slip in a reference to Norse mythology here, but the "journalist" who slipped in the word "almost" made it clear that oblique references or metaphors are unwelcome. Where is it not clear in the thinking universe that "scientific theories such as biological evolution and anthropogenic (human-driven) climate change" are universally accepted by the scientific community? Not "almost universally accepted." Sometimes it is really hard to live in a reality based world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 09:46 AM

121. The earth is flat and the sun revolves around it

the church is always right about these things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Fri Feb 22, 2013, 11:43 AM

123. Yet more evidence of fundamentalism's danger to education..

Those poor kids.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread