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Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:44 PM

85% of households in China plan to buy (or buy more) Ivory 'artwork,' as they become more affluent.

Just on MSNBC.

Say goodbye to African Elephants.

Religious statues made of ivory is a highly desired 'status symbol' in China.

Blood Ivory
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/opinion/global/blood-ivory.html

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Reply 85% of households in China plan to buy (or buy more) Ivory 'artwork,' as they become more affluent. (Original post)
onehandle Feb 2013 OP
yardwork Feb 2013 #1
we can do it Feb 2013 #2
queenjane Feb 2013 #3
el_bryanto Feb 2013 #4
CBGLuthier Feb 2013 #12
Beaverhausen Feb 2013 #19
Lasher Feb 2013 #5
obnoxiousdrunk Feb 2013 #6
wickerwoman Feb 2013 #7
G_j Feb 2013 #11
wickerwoman Feb 2013 #18
G_j Feb 2013 #20
wickerwoman Feb 2013 #21
onehandle Feb 2013 #9
AngryAmish Feb 2013 #8
riverbendviewgal Feb 2013 #10
pansypoo53219 Feb 2013 #13
Gorp Feb 2013 #14
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #15
MoonRiver Feb 2013 #16
Liberal_in_LA Feb 2013 #17

Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:44 PM

1. That's disgusting.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:45 PM

2. And we are putting money in their hands to do this.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:57 PM

3. China's responsible for the decimation of tiger populations, too

They use tiger parts in their "traditional" medicines.

A friend who works in wildlife conservation told me that, because tigers are increasingly rare, LIONS are now being slaughtered and their parts passed off as tiger parts.

I rarely buy anything new that was made in China because I can't give these heinous people money to buy these things. And that's what we're doing buying their crap: we're funding the extinction of glorious beings.

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Response to queenjane (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:01 PM

4. Well there are probably some good points to Chinese people too nt

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Response to queenjane (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:26 PM

12. a billion people are heinous because of the practices of a few?

Damn, I just know there is a word for that kind of thinking. What is it now?

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Response to queenjane (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:07 PM

19. Ever heard of "tiger wine"?

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:03 PM

5. I'm skeptical.

That's an awful lot of Chinese households.

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Response to Lasher (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:11 PM

6. Exactly...

That's what I thought.

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Response to Lasher (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:12 PM

7. I'm prepared to call bullshit as well.

Migrant construction workers stashing ivory in their straw sleeping pallets in the glorified shipping containers they live in?

I lived there five years and was invited into a number of private homes. As far as I know, I never saw ivory in any of them. Having a TV was a luxury for middle-class Chinese. Having an economy car was very upper middle-class. 50% of Chinese people are still essentially subsistance farmers. I went to the house of a "wealthy" farmer where they never turned the lights on to save electricity costs.

Maybe, maybe 85% of upper-middle class people in Shanghai and Beijing have a tiny ivory bauble or two but there's no way even a simple majority of all Chinese people do.

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Response to wickerwoman (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:20 PM

11. I wouldn't underplay how serious this is

whatever you saw, it is fact that china is driving the ivory trade.

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Response to G_j (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 11:01 PM

18. That may be true,

but then that's all that you need to say. There's no need to pull ridiculous statistics out of your ass like 85% of Chinese people have illegal ivory. All that does is weaken the credibility of the overall case.

13% of Chinese people are rural people living illegally and unregistered in cities. How many of those people, most of whom work in factories or construction, live in shipping containers or packed 14 to a three bedroom apartment, and earn less than $1 a day and still manage to send money back to support their relatives in the countryside who are worse off than they are, can afford to buy even the smallest speck of ivory or would be inclined to do so even if they did?

So that leaves 2% of ethical Chinese people (or legal urban residents too poor to afford ivory too) and everyone else in China is an asshole? Come on. It's not an issue of my experiences or observations. That's absurd on the face of it and feeds into the pretty blatant prejudice against the Chinese which seems to be permissable even in a place like DU (looking at you posts 3 and 16).

Poaching ivory is bad. Buying poached ivory is bad. Chinese people on average buy more poached ivory than other people and that's bad. But the overwhelming majority of Chinese people are not hoarding ivory, sharpening their knives and slathering over the chance to do in another endangered species for shits and giggles. Many people in China are quite eco-conscious and they are investing a lot in green technologies. They've done a huge amount to protect pandas, for one example.

More consciousness raising is obviously necessary, but accusing virtually everyone in the country above the line of abject poverty of having ivory raises defences not awareness.

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Response to wickerwoman (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:12 AM

20. regardless of what your average person in China

may or may not have in their home, if you go to where the elephants are being slaughtered, you will soon find the money for the ivory is coming from China.

bottomline.. elephants are being obliterated

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Response to G_j (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 12:30 PM

21. Bottom line is we want to stop the elephants being obliterated.

We don't do that by making shit up. We do it by finding out why there is actually a market for ivory, who is buying it and working with those people to eliminate the demand. Wasting resources on consciousness raising among people who don't have ivory in the first place, takes away from that effort.

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Response to Lasher (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:55 PM

9. '85% of the population has some sort of illegal ivory in China'

It was discussed at length with illegal ivory experts on MSNBC.

Talk to them.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:22 PM

8. There is very little social safety net in china

The banks are corrupt. So people try to buy physical things which will not go down in value for old age. Land can be confiscated at the whim of an official. So they buy shit like ivory pool cues and the ilk.

Maybe if their government was not so corrupt and their banks were not so corrupt and they had a higher level of trust in their society...

but then they would not be Chinese, they would be Swedish.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:17 PM

10. perhaps they can 3d print the ivory

that would be okay, eh?

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:43 PM

13. i do not WANT to be racist. and the rhino too. we need armed drones to protect critters.

EDUCATE. jade is not alive.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 04:02 PM

14. They have a different set of values. Shark fin soup is a delicacy.

 

They literally cut off the fins and throw the sharks back in the water to die. It doesn't make sense because shark meat is also highly valued, but the fins take up less space and are far more profitable. I used to broil or grill mako, but that was a very long time ago. I don't do meat of any kind now. I've never had fin.

The Chinese also breed St. Bernards as cattle for their meat. As I said, they have a different set of values. Raccoon dogs are bred for their pelts like mink is. And Europe is in a turmoil over horse meat in their burgers. I always called "Jack In The Box" tacos "kangaroo meat". There was some sort of controversy over that 35 years ago. McD's doesn't qualify as "meat". I'm not sure what it is, but it isn't meat.

Rhino "horns" are considered a Viagra sort of substance in China. Tiger hearts promote health. Ivory is just pretty. Frog innards are supposed to bring wealth. And, they eat bugs of various sorts for various reasons. At least they all go well with rice. Okay, maybe not the bugs.

Our own legacy includes the slaughter of much needed Buffalos simply to skin them for the pelts. The Native Americans needed them for food. They used the pelts, but they rarely if ever sold them. We kill for sport. We destroy for fun. Our entire government is driven by money that comes from industries hell bent on the destruction of our environment for profit. Don't these barons realize that they're going to die some day? Contrary to their popular belief, you can't take it with you.

We've driven too many creatures to extinction already. It hurts me that so many people can't grasp the significance of that. Our ecosystem depends on diversity. We've got zebra mussels in our waterways and sewer systems. The lion fish is taking over the reefs in Florida. Both are imported problems, as are the rabbits in Australia. House cats aren't even indigenous to North America and yet we've got the highest per-capita population of them in the world.

I'm sorry, but human desires are the primary cause of the extinction of other creatures who are equally entitled to life as we are. It's just wrong.



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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 04:04 PM

15. But the Chinese manufacture the Apple products you shill.

So it's kind of a tradeoff, don't you think?

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 04:18 PM

16. Just revolting!

Sometimes I think China and Japan want to destroy every living thing, besides humans, on earth.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 04:20 PM

17. horrible

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