Founding Fathers and The Treaty Of Tripoli

[WillyT]

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The Treaty of Tripoli

Main article: Treaty of Tripoli: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

In 1797, the United States Senate ratified a treaty with Tripoli that stated in Article 11:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.[16]

According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were "intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. President John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers."[17]

Supporters of the separation of church and state argue that this treaty, which was ratified by the Senate, confirms that the government of the United States was specifically intended to be religiously neutral.[18] The treaty was submitted by President Adams and unanimously ratified by the Senate.

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Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state#The_Treaty_of_Tripoli

[Sherman A1]

1. Is there not some dispute

on this article being in the translated version? I believe I read somewhere that was the case.

[WillyT]

2. I Dunno... You Tell Me...

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Have supporters of such separation never heard of...

The Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom, which Jefferson considered his finest work after the Declaration of Independence?

Jefferson and Madison pushed this through the Virginia legislature in 1799, after huge fights with the Episcopal Church, and it was used as the basis for the religious wording of the First Amendment.

It's much better evidence of the actual beliefs of the Founders than a diplomatic apologia to a foreign government.

[jody]

4. BOR completed 1789 before "pushed this through the Virginia legislature in 1799" nt

[JDPriestly]

6. The intentions of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson are made quite clear

in their correspondence, their letters to each other.

They abhorred religious intolerance of any kind. John Adams was a Unitarian, and Thomas Jefferson left no doubt that he considered the differences between religions to be sheer folly.

Jefferson edited the Jefferson Bible which I recommend to anyone who wants clarity on what he thought about Christianity. He rejected anything that sounded irrational -- the miracles, etc.

[Hugabear]

5. The Founding Fathers were obviously communist

At least that's what the teabaggers would say

[MFrohike]

7. I agree with it

When someone says America is a Christian nation, that's largely true. The nation does predominantly follow some kind of Christianity. The trouble is when people confuse the nation with the state. The nation is literally the people and nothing more. The state is the government and its apparatus, nothing more. This treaty simply states the obvious, that the American state is secular.

The above may seem nitpicky, but there is a clear difference between a nation and a state. The Polish nation has existed for centuries, but it has not always had a state. If the American state were to disappear overnight, for whatever reason, the nation would endure. Look at the Kurds. There's pretty clearly a Kurdish nation but they are unlikely to ever have their own state for a variety of reasons. That being said, you don't need the state for the nation to exist. It's also true that you can have a state without a nation. Look at the USSR, the old Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian Empire.