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Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:56 PM

Wondering if anyone here agrees with me about why we went into Iraq

I just saw a fairly good interview with David Corn and Michael Isakoff on Hardball in which they were asked why the * administration went into Iraq against all the evidence. My paraphrase of their answers is basically for regime change.

That certainly wouldn't be my answer. I won't say what I think because I'd like to hear what y'all think. I'm curious whether your gut reaction is the same as mine.

All answers welcome.

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Arrow 58 replies Author Time Post
Reply Wondering if anyone here agrees with me about why we went into Iraq (Original post)
senseandsensibility Feb 2013 OP
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #1
struggle4progress Feb 2013 #6
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #7
LibGranny Feb 2013 #29
rurallib Feb 2013 #46
NightWatcher Feb 2013 #2
otherone Feb 2013 #3
Purveyor Feb 2013 #4
Dirty Socialist Feb 2013 #5
patrice Feb 2013 #8
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #9
RebelOne Feb 2013 #42
Demeter Feb 2013 #10
Hoyt Feb 2013 #11
Cleita Feb 2013 #12
robinlynne Feb 2013 #13
MH1 Feb 2013 #23
randome Feb 2013 #14
Voice for Peace Feb 2013 #15
senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #19
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #31
HoneychildMooseMoss Feb 2013 #56
El Supremo Feb 2013 #16
annabanana Feb 2013 #17
Warpy Feb 2013 #18
jazzimov Feb 2013 #20
MH1 Feb 2013 #21
Blaukraut Feb 2013 #43
magellan Feb 2013 #48
quaker bill Feb 2013 #22
JI7 Feb 2013 #24
Downwinder Feb 2013 #32
WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #25
Motown_Johnny Feb 2013 #26
JI7 Feb 2013 #34
graham4anything Feb 2013 #27
El Supremo Feb 2013 #35
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #28
riverbendviewgal Feb 2013 #30
rainy Feb 2013 #33
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #36
Poiuyt Feb 2013 #37
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #38
rufus dog Feb 2013 #39
meti57b Feb 2013 #40
Ruby the Liberal Feb 2013 #41
RC Feb 2013 #44
MrSlayer Feb 2013 #45
WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2013 #47
A HERETIC I AM Feb 2013 #49
lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #50
still_one Feb 2013 #51
Lint Head Feb 2013 #52
shadowmayor Feb 2013 #53
applegrove Feb 2013 #54
2Design Feb 2013 #55
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #57
CanonRay Feb 2013 #58

Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:59 PM

1. Destabilization of the Middle East, oil/energy control, defense contracts, increased pentagon

spending.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:03 PM

6. + neoconservative desire to increase W's power as "CIC"

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:05 PM

7. True. "War President", that was a big deal until Prez O.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:43 PM

29. What you said +1

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 10:23 PM

46. + hand the treasury to their friends while bsnkrupting the US so that

when any "social" spending came along the Repubs could say "we don't have any money."
Been saying that from 9/11 on. 9/11 gave them the green light to piss away our money with little question.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:59 PM

2. War is big business and "money trumps peace, sometimes"

The only honest thing the shrub ever said.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:01 PM

3. We needed an away game

fight em over there..

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:03 PM

4. Israel To U.S.: Don't Delay Iraq Attack

Israel is urging U.S. officials not to delay a military strike against Iraq's Saddam Hussein, an aide to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Friday.

Israeli intelligence officials have gathered evidence that Iraq is speeding up efforts to produce biological and chemical weapons, said Sharon aide Ranaan Gissin.

"Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose," Gissin said. "It will only give him (Saddam) more of an opportunity to accelerate his program of weapons of mass destruction."

The United States has been considering a military campaign against Iraq to remove Saddam from power, listing him as one of the world's main terrorist regimes. However, there is considerable world opposition to a U.S. strike.

MORE...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/18/world/main519037.shtml

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:05 PM

8. Oil.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:08 PM

9. O peration I raqi L iberation = O I L

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:42 PM

42. I agree with that. n/t

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:12 PM

10. Joy-Riding with the Oval Office

Too much cocaine, beer, arrogance, stupidity and license...to kill.

They were just overgrown kids, clear cases of arrested development. A fully developed psychopath would have done a much better job of it...see Obama administration.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:14 PM

11. Right wingers just wanted to kill a bunch of innocent Muslims after 9/11.

Iraq was convenient and militarily weak/unarmed.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:14 PM

12. I think it was to make money on the stock market.

Our military/industrial complex profited immensely from these wars and those millionaires who could invest knew money was going to be thrown at all those private corporations that took over operations that had formerly been done by the military not to mention the production of hardware and all other equipment needed to conduct war. They are billionaires today. Oh, yes and the possibility of getting their paws on a big supply of oil.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:15 PM

13. war contracts. money. money. money.

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Response to robinlynne (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:34 PM

23. this. ^^^ nt.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:18 PM

14. A confluence of Daddy Issues with PNAC. A perfect storm.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:18 PM

15. In their noblest delusions, they were trying to advance civilization. ie, big picture, long term.

Destabilizing, blowing up the "old" and then in with the "new."
They want to totally remake the middle east by western
standards.

Other than that, I agree with most of the other posters.
So many motivating factors.
Except I don't think it was to raise Bush's stature
except in his own mind, to keep him busy playing
War President.

But I am curious about your own thinking... ?

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Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:24 PM

19. I think I agree most closely with robinlynne

unfortunately. It gives me no pleasure to say so. I can see why so many say "oil", but of course oil doesn't say it all. We the people, who paid for (and in some cases died in) this war received no benefit from this "oil." Gas prices certainly didn't go down. I think it was for the benefit of the one percent. And of course they paid no price for it.
I expected either Mr. Corn or his co-author to at least hint at this. They didn't.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:46 PM

31. Control and manipulation of supply for multinational oil and energy companies--

if anyone in America thought we would get cheap gas out of Iraq, they were being had. Same as anyone who thinks we're going to get cheap gas out of Keystone running through our countryside. Nope--oil goes on the world market, it's never for our benefit. That doesn't mean oil resources weren't a fairly big factor in Iraq.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:02 AM

56. Bush and Cheney were both oil men

Their base was the "haves and have-mores"-- not us. Making us pay more for gas merely helped line the pockets of their oil buddies.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:20 PM

16. It was because Sadam had a plot to kill *'s daddy.

And that his daddy didn't "finish the job" in the 1st Gulf War - so he would.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:21 PM

17. #1). oil.. . . . . . #2) the Great Neo-Con wet dream

Remember the kids they sent in to run the country after sending ALL the experience Iraqis packing? It was going to be a pure market driven utopia.

And then pallets of money went poof... 100% clusterfuck

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:22 PM

18. Two groups wanted that war

and that is AIPAC and the oil barons. The rest of the bunch in PNAC and the OSP in the Pentagon were the hired help making sure intelligence got faked so that it would happen.

The same two groups are the ones trying to beat war drums for Iran. They're far less organized this time and have far less support in Congress and even in the Pentagon.

We need to make sure that stays the case.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:30 PM

20. PNAC.

Yes, it called for regime change but went beyond that - it advocated using Iraq as a US military base of operations.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqmiddleeast2001.htm

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:32 PM

21. An excuse to loot the U.S. Treasury via the Military Industrial Complex;

specifically via companies like KBR into which the Family* have their hooks.

* By Family I mean the Bushies and the Cheneys and the rest of their cabal.


(btw I am answering without reading any other answers in this thread. I have always believed that MIC profits were the real reason for the war.)

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Response to MH1 (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:46 PM

43. Exactly. So many defense contracting companies, so few wars to profit from at the time

That was the only reason to start the Iraq war. Those companies, KBR, Halliburton, Titan, BAE, etc etc all made out like bandits, and are still going strong. Some have reinvented themselves and changed their names since then, but they are still milking the wars for all they can.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:08 AM

48. ^ This ^ helped provide cover for bankrupting the government, long a Repub goal.

The great GDP that Bush touted was smoke and mirrors created by tax cuts, two wars on credit, and lack of enforcement/regulation of the mortgage market and WS, leading to a housing boom and soaring stocks. Everything was peachy keen...till the house of cards collapsed.

What's been happening since? Major cuts, real and threatened, to public services & employees, and to the social safety net.

I believe it was intentional. So many saw it coming, it's unlikely those in charge didn't. They were orchestrating events.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:33 PM

22. Because they wanted to do it anyway

and there was "good stuff to blow up". I think it was largely for our entertainment after 9/11, which was why we got all the gun camera footage (at first).

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:34 PM

24. Remember the MOral Clarity Crap ?

of course the usuals like oil people and others who benefit because of business supported it. i think Cheney fits into this category. but it was more than that.

pnac guys were pushing the war in iraq for along time and most of these aren't the oil business types. they saw 9/11 as a way to get wider support for it.

it didn't help having an idiot for a president.



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Response to JI7 (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:51 PM

32. The DOW was down to $8,000, war boosts the economy.

The dot com bubble had burst and time to build the real estate bubble was too short.

Fanciful

They have plowed everything from Kabul to Timbuktu rifling the museums along the way looking for the Holy Grail or the bowl of the winds or something.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:35 PM

25. $$$$

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:36 PM

26. Yes, Regime change... but that desire was rooted in ...

the fact that Bush Sr. didn't remove Saddam when he had the chance. The people who thought that was a mistake sold the idea to Jr. and convinced him it was the right thing to do.

I think the line was that Sr.'s place in history would be destroyed if Saddam did something terrible after he was allowed to stay in power.

Shrub was always just a puppet President.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:56 PM

34. i do agree that's how they convinced BUsh of it

the whole crap of finishing what his dad was suposed to do and of course he believed the crap about being greeted with candy and kisses and whatever the fuck.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:39 PM

27. Because of a personal grudge, same as Ross Perot had a personal grudge in 1992

 

Bush family had a personal grudge against Saddam
same as they went to war and got rid of Dan Rather because of a personal grudge

Same reason Ross Perot ran, not to win, just to stop 41 in 1992
(proven when in 2000 and 2004 he backed W over Gore and Kerry.)

None of these had anything to do with politics, all were personal grudges.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:08 PM

35. You got it! n/m

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:42 PM

28. The same reason we went to Vietnam and Afghanistan. "Tough on Bogeymen" political PR.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:43 PM

30. MONEY MONEY MONEY

W wanted to best his dad
Cheney's Haliburton was on the verge of bankruptcy.
the oil guys wanted the oil.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:56 PM

33. I did hear that. Supposedly Saddam

Was planning on nationalizing the oil and trading in the euro not the dollar.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:09 PM

36. 1) Oil; 2) One more piece in the ring around Iran...which is still the NeoCons' #1 target. nt.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:13 PM

37. To show up Poppy and to win political capital

W had always been in the shadow of his father. W wanted to invade Iraq and take out Saddam because Poppy didn't do that. He saw that as an opportunity to finish something his father didn't or couldn't do.

He had also wanted to be a "War President," and even referred to himself in those terms. He felt that being a "war president" would allow him to push his conservative agenda. He actually talked about that before he was took office.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:17 PM

38. "regime change" is a catchall

The relevant question is regime change for what purpose?

Securing oil supplies combined with daddy issues is the answer.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:21 PM

39. Well my first answer would be Big Oil

AND THE NEXT HUNDRED MOTHER FUCKING ANSWERS WOULD BE THE SAME!

Sorry, this just pisses me off.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:31 PM

40. We went to war in Iraq, to give some focus to the lackluster Bush administration and

.....provide them with an excuse to demand our support.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:38 PM

41. Oil/mineral rights

No bid private contracts to get it done.

The whole thing was bullshit from the get-go.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:53 PM

44. OIL: regardless of what many think, it was oil first and foremost.

 

Saddam was gearing up to switching from the dollar to the Euro. If that happened, the US dollar would have taken a major hit, and then a beating, as the other oil countries followed suit.

Also, why else was the Oil Ministry spared and guarded, while the world class museum nearby, containing priceless artifacts from the beginning of civilization, was looted, as we only watched.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 10:16 PM

45. Saddam was going to switch to the Euro.

 

And that would have hurt the owners. Secondly, it was a good way for the cronies to loot the treasury. It was also to affect policy here at home. Massive war expenditures and giant tax cuts force us into austerity.

All these things are the owners' plan to take everything that's left to wring out of this country before they abandon it completely.

That's why 9/11 happened.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 10:30 PM

47. OIL -- Oil, Israel, Logistics (Ray McGovern)

And as MrSlayer pointed out, Saddam dumping the dollar for euros.

Wow, it feels like old home week on DU.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:13 AM

49. I heard a great analogy years ago...

If a country known the world over for the fact that its people ate more French Fries per capita than any other country on earth, invaded and occupied Idaho and Eastern Oregon but SWORE UP AND DOWN they weren't there for the potatoes,





would we believe them?

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:33 AM

50. The Greg Palast theory: Controlling the oil futures market: The price of oil.

Iraq wasn't part of OPEC, which rigged the market for their own interests. Hussein wouldn't play fair: He'd turn on his tap, flood the market with oil, and the price would plummet.

Then, he'd turn off the spigets and the price would shoot up.

It wasn't getting the oil: It was controlling the price, and allowing the insiders to continue making a killing in oil futures.

He wrote a book: Google it. This answer really makes all of my questions stop. It makes total sense.

Shrub had been a failure at everything he ever attempted, including oil drilling. This was his chance to control the market and win: He provided a proxy army for Saudi Arabia: Our soldiers. The saudis don't dare keep a standing army: It's too dangerous, and too hard to control and protect and move. So, their best buddie Shrub provided the army and we'll never know the extent of the kick-backs the Bush's and their friends enjoyed.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:36 AM

51. You can say it, most people here know it was because of oil

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:37 AM

52. Because murderers like to murder.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:50 AM

53. OK Here's one more reason

Generals with their toys, oil and the boys who set the price, Israel-Saudi Arabia-Iran, 911 all have a part, but really I think it's because of the 7 billion idiots on this little planet to choose from, Jesus decided to talk to George and let him know that going to war - er invading a country in the old testament lands was the right and christian thing to do. God said so.

Remember all the pious nonesense about pray for our president and how this might really be a holy war?

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 12:52 AM

54. They wanted regime change because Saddam Hussein was giving money

to the families of palestinians who caused terrorism in Israel. Plus they wanted a vacuum economy to try out their neocon economic free market theories. Plus they were high testosterone men with no place to put their testosterone (always a danger).

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:08 AM

55. They were already building up the military long before 911 - cheney and rumsfeld

They had secrets they need to kill - war is money - had nothing to do with anything but their selfish interests

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:37 AM

57. Three reasons I can think of.

1) To avenge the damage that Hussein did to Bush's father's reputation when Bush pulled out of the First Iraq War without ousting Hussein.

2) So that the Bush's and their friends could get a cut of the deals on the oil fields in Iraq when they were handed out to various oil companies. Don't know whether they succeeded in that.

3) To help Halliburton and other defense contractors. Some members of the Bush administration and Congress may even have directly profited from the military and support contracts that the war required.

Someone else mentioned a good one: to stir up trouble in the Middle East. I don't think that is so likely, but it is a possibility.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Original post)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 07:28 AM

58. Cheney thought he could get his hands on their oil

for his rich friends, plus make a ton for his contractor buddies running the war. Greed, pure and simple.

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