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Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:30 PM

President Obama is outrageous

in his efforts to improve public safety. Let's give him our support.

"Last year, there were 443 murders with a firearm on the streets of Chicago, and 65 of those victims were 18 and under. So that’s the equivalent of a Newtown every four months." —President Obama

Find out how you can help reduce gun violence and protect our kids—then share this so your friends can, too: http://OFA.BO/7TmuJ4


18 replies, 2859 views

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Arrow 18 replies Author Time Post
Reply President Obama is outrageous (Original post)
BainsBane Feb 2013 OP
MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #1
frazzled Feb 2013 #6
DevonRex Feb 2013 #7
frazzled Feb 2013 #9
MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #10
DevonRex Feb 2013 #12
frazzled Feb 2013 #14
MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #16
frazzled Feb 2013 #18
iandhr Feb 2013 #11
frazzled Feb 2013 #15
BainsBane Feb 2013 #17
KingFlorez Feb 2013 #8
lamp_shade Feb 2013 #2
frazzled Feb 2013 #3
BainsBane Feb 2013 #4
frazzled Feb 2013 #5
Skittles Feb 2013 #13

Response to BainsBane (Original post)


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:57 PM

6. Yeah, these murders sprang full blown from the head of Rahm Emanuel

Don't let the facts about the homicide problem of Chicago get in the way of your preconceived notions. Let's pin it all on the guy who has been mayor for all of 21 months, despite these statistics on homicides in the City of Chicago:

Homicides in Chicago by year:

1928: 399
1965: 395
1974: 970
1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435
2012: 506

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago



Note that the uptick in crime (1974) began during the tenure of Richard J. Daley, and continued up and down by bits throughout the mayorships of others, including our beloved Harold Washington, and no so beloved Richie M. Daley. So forty years of Daleys for mayor, and a handful of others as mayors, but let's pin this all on the most recent mayor. Not too bright.

If you lived here, you'd know at least that Emanuel has been doing something none of the Daleys ever did: going to the homes of the families of murdered children, deep in the heart of Englewood and other disenfranchised neighborhoods on the South and West sides. And he has been bringing attention for the first time to these kids, and to the gun problem ... and has been fighting like heck to get new and stronger gun laws and gang-violence prevention assistance in place.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:11 PM

7. Thanks for posting the statistics for so many years. Rahm didn't cause this.

It's a gun issue that's been around for a long time, as your statistics bear out. We've got to stop that pipeline of firearms into Chicago. Imagine how much money people are making by smuggling the weapons in. Chicago ought to be able to have the gun laws it wants without outside interference. Especially since it's just because smugglers want to make a buck and don't care about the murders.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:18 PM

9. Yes, we need clearheaded policies, not scapegoatism and bogeymen

We need to put pressure on Indiana, next door, to strengthen their gun laws; we need stem the flow; we need better state laws (not just in Chicago); we need federal laws on background checks and private sales; we need better and smarter gang intervention measures; we need economic development and jobs. Even then it will be tough.

But I guess it's easier to make a snarky comment about the-guy-who's-responsible-for-everything-that's-wrong-everywhere than to actually focus on real issues.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:34 PM

10. You're right.

While it's disappointing that murders have increased significantly under Rahm's watch, rather thanfalling, I don't know the situation well enough to cast blame. So I've deleted my post.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:42 PM

12. Good job Manny.

I respect that.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:02 PM

14. I think that you need to consider ...

that in 2011 the recession had caused unemployment and foreclosures in Chicago to hit highs and federal money for neighborhood policing had dried up, that last year was the freaking hottest on record (a big crime inducer), and that a federal court struck down Chicago's gun laws as unconstitutional; so the slight uptick in crime last year was hardly surprising. It's been a persistent problem here for more than 40 years.

I'm glad you acknowledged that there's more to this issue than a snark, but it doesn't quite seem you've totally given it up. I guess I'm just sensitive because this is the city I live in, and because I know how hard everyone is working to stem this gun violence. And it hits everyone, even us: the 13 year old cousin of my husband's TA was killed in a drive-by shooting. A little boy, innocent. And yet we have no qualms about driving around the South and West sides, and no, we don't have (and have never had) a gun.

This isn't something someone can snap their fingers and fix overnight.

I would really hope you listen to this edition of last week's "This American Life"—part one of a two part exploration of gangs in Chicago:

We spent five months at Harper High School in Chicago, where last year alone 29 current and recent students were shot. 29. We went to get a sense of what it means to live in the midst of all this gun violence, how teens and adults navigate a world of funerals and Homecoming dances. We found so many incredible and surprising stories, this show is a two-parter; Part One airs this week, Part Two is next week.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/487/harper-high-school-part-one



I cannot recommend this program highly enough. It will shatter your idea of what you think gangs are today. It will depress you about how numbingly hopeless life must be to these kids, that they take all these shootings as a matter of course. In a way, how complex and difficult this is to change, despite all the dedicated people at all levels trying to address it.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:11 PM

16. Recession/depression, unemployment and foreclosures? Rahm definitely owns a piece of that.

His malice towards working Americans and obsequiousness towards big money is legendary.

I *do* get the hopelessness of life for these folks. Until the 30-year bipartisan war on the 99% ends and we start to take back our country, they have no future. It's horrific, and can only end very badly for everyone unless we get in there and fix it. I'm very interested in the TAL episode, have not heard it yet but will.

That's why I get so upset at Third Way folks like Rahm - they've banded with Republicans to destroy our economy and push political discourse so far to the right. Real people are suffering and dying from this stuff.

Hopefully Elizabeth Warren and other FDR Democrats will be able to clear the Third Way from political life. She's made a damned good start.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 11:39 PM

18. Legendary in your mind

If you truly think the recession was caused by Rahm Emanuel, I'm gonna guess your name is, say, Mitch Daniels, or maybe Dick Cheney. You've go a little time warp here, Buster. Remember something called the Bush administration, under which the recession came to be? And even afterward, Rahm Emanuel was the WH scheduler, not a policy maker.

Neither the vilification of Rahm Emanuel, on whom you seem to blame the ills of the world, nor the sainthood of Elizabeth Warren, whom you seem to think is infallible (she's not) is a rational world view. If you want to blame failures of the Obama presidency during the early days of the recession on someone, blame them on Obama (and, well, on the Republicans and conservative Democrats in Congress). He's the boss, and I'm sure he'd agree with me on that.

PS: Warren was never an FDR Democrat; she has said she was a Republican until 1995, because, as she put it: "I thought that those were the people who best supported markets." Till she was 46 years old! Elizabeth and I are the same age. So while I was out there in the 1960s getting tear gassed at demonstrations against the war in Vietnam, and then fighting for women's rights, and being aghast at Iran Contra, and voting for Paul Wellstone in Minnesota, she was voting for Republicans, because they were 'better for the markets.' So don't give me this kind of good guy - bad guy shit. I'm not that naive. I grew up in a strongly FDR Democratic household; Adlai Stevenson was god around our house when I was a kid. I pounded the pavements for Democratic candidates for decades. I was a founding member of my town's chapter of Progressive Democrats of Massachusetts before moving (yet again) to Illinois. I'm nobody's fool.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:41 PM

11. My god

New York had 414 murders in 2012.

New York is 4x the population.

At to blame Rahm is wrong. Its a a big problem long before he got there.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:05 PM

15. Yeah, well, NYC has the racist, unconstitutional "stop and frisk" policy

Let's just say, we do not want that here in Chicago.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 11:18 PM

17. Gun violence rates in other cities

Last edited Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:45 AM - Edit history (1)

As bad as Chicago is, it doesn't crack the top ten. I think the campaign may have posted Chicago on my website because it's close to me (I'm in Minneapolis. We used to be called Murderapolis).

Cities with the Highest Rates of Total Gun-Related Deaths
(per 100,000 people)
Rank City City Rate Metro Rate City/Metro
Ratio
1 New Orleans 69.1 32.8 2.1
2 Detroit 41.4 14.8 2.8
3 Las Vegas 36.9 17.6 2.1
4 Miami 33.5 11.7 2.9
5 Baltimore 33.1 15.2 2.2
6 St. Louis 31.1 14.0 2.2
7 Richmond 29.9 15.7 1.9
8 Memphis 25.5 19.8 1.3
9 Cleveland 25.2 10.9 2.3
10 Philadelphia 24.3 12.4 2.0

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:15 PM

8. Violence has been rampant in Chicago for years

Ever hear of gangs? It seems no one really cares about this violence until it can be used to blame certain politicians.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:43 PM

2. I'm in.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)


Response to frazzled (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:54 PM

4. You responded to the wrong post

You must have meant to respond to Manny's. I welcome your correction.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 07:55 PM

5. Oops, thanks, I'll move it /nt

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Response to frazzled (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:51 PM

13. you want I should kick some frazzled ass?

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