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Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:42 PM

Remember the Project for a New American Century? You know those guys who wanted war with Iraq?

Their website is still up even though they have stopped being public and have renamed themselves and gone underground:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Remember they were the guys who wanted to invade, not just Iraq, but the whole Middle East to institute a Pax Americana by force. They said it would take a Pearl Harbor type incident for us to be able to do it and guess what, Osama bin Laden complied by giving us 9/11. Unfortunately, at that time they had installed their figurehead as our President, George W. Bush, with the help of SCOTUS, so the banners of war were raised against the wishes of the majority of the American people and the world.

They were rattling their sabers for war as early as 1998 as evidenced by these letters they wrote:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqletter1998.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Bushletter.htm

These and other letters as are on the website point to the planning already in the works before 9/11 occurred. And guess who created the PNAC? PNAC was an offshoot of the Heritage Foundation, which guess what leads us to our friends the Koch Brothers who provided most of the funding. They did trick us into war and our government helped them do it. Live with it. As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.



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Reply Remember the Project for a New American Century? You know those guys who wanted war with Iraq? (Original post)
Cleita Feb 2013 OP
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #1
Cleita Feb 2013 #2
Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #71
kelliekat44 Feb 2013 #83
RevStPatrick Feb 2013 #3
Cleita Feb 2013 #4
ProSense Feb 2013 #5
Cleita Feb 2013 #7
L0oniX Feb 2013 #9
Cleita Feb 2013 #10
ProSense Feb 2013 #16
Cleita Feb 2013 #12
calimary Feb 2013 #42
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #46
ProSense Feb 2013 #57
L0oniX Feb 2013 #6
Cleita Feb 2013 #8
calimary Feb 2013 #43
rdharma Feb 2013 #11
Cleita Feb 2013 #13
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #14
Cleita Feb 2013 #15
calimary Feb 2013 #45
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #17
Cleita Feb 2013 #19
Turbineguy Feb 2013 #18
Cleita Feb 2013 #21
harun Feb 2013 #44
treestar Feb 2013 #20
Cleita Feb 2013 #22
Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #29
Cleita Feb 2013 #30
Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #34
Cleita Feb 2013 #36
alfredo Feb 2013 #40
JHB Feb 2013 #67
entanglement Feb 2013 #69
progressoid Feb 2013 #86
LeftInTX Feb 2013 #23
Cleita Feb 2013 #27
bvar22 Feb 2013 #24
truedelphi Feb 2013 #26
bvar22 Feb 2013 #35
Cleita Feb 2013 #37
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #81
Cleita Feb 2013 #82
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #47
global1 Feb 2013 #77
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #87
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #49
bvar22 Feb 2013 #52
Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2013 #72
bigtree Feb 2013 #25
Cleita Feb 2013 #32
Arkansas Granny Feb 2013 #28
mitchtv Feb 2013 #31
Cleita Feb 2013 #33
WillyT Feb 2013 #38
elleng Feb 2013 #39
johnnyreb Feb 2013 #41
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #48
Cleita Feb 2013 #50
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #51
Cleita Feb 2013 #54
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #58
Cleita Feb 2013 #60
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #63
global1 Feb 2013 #79
tarheelsunc Feb 2013 #53
Cleita Feb 2013 #55
mn9driver Feb 2013 #56
Cleita Feb 2013 #59
mn9driver Feb 2013 #61
Cleita Feb 2013 #62
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2013 #76
rdharma Feb 2013 #64
Cleita Feb 2013 #65
rdharma Feb 2013 #66
Cleita Feb 2013 #68
PufPuf23 Feb 2013 #70
Agony Feb 2013 #73
Cleita Feb 2013 #75
wildbilln864 Feb 2013 #74
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #78
KansDem Feb 2013 #80
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #84
Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #85

Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:01 PM

1. I think it's fascinating that some original PNACers and their relatives (thru AEI) were also

the proud inventors of The Surge, when things went bad and a salvage operation for the glorious war was needed. The Frederick Kagan referenced in this article also later went to Afghanistan with his wife and the two of them directed Petraeus's conduct of the war when he took over as commander. Joe Lieberman and John McCain figure prominently in this article--explains why they can't let The Surge go:

http://www.salon.com/2007/01/06/aei_2/

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:05 PM

2. I always considered Lieberman a turncoat of the worst type.

McCain was always a part of the cabal. Lieberman got the votes of pacifists in earnest and turned on them. Too bad there is no jail for treasonous party members especially when their actions lead to unnecessary deaths.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:00 PM

71. When they lost General Petraus, they lost their main inside man in this administration.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:30 PM

83. They have been pretty damn successful, if you ask me.

Lebanon
Iraq
Libya
Egypt
Yeman
Syria
Afghanistan
Pakistan

and working on Iran and central Africa

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:07 PM

3. I was one of those people...

 

..who was well aware of PNAC long before they got their new Pearl Harbor.
It was really frustrating watching what was happening, and seemingly intelligent people saying to me "oh that's just a silly conspiracy theory."

No, they have a website!

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Response to RevStPatrick (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:10 PM

4. Yes, remember. It wasn't hard for people to say it because the ideas presented

on the PNAC website seemed so wacky back then. Now it seems the thinking is mainstream.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:10 PM

5. Who could have

known with names like: Elliott Abrams William Kristol Donald Rumsfeld Paul Wolfowitz John Bolton Charles Krauthammer

Did anyone ever trust these guys? They're neo-cons. They're the same ones pushing for war with Iran.

Iraq: Bush lied
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022389965


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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:11 PM

7. And today, they seem to have more credibility among the non-thinkers than

they even did back then.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:13 PM

9. ...and the Heritage Foundation was an out house for them to shit on the USA. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:20 PM

10. btw look at the signatures on the Statement of Principles.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:29 PM

16. Oh, Jeb Bush

is a despicable asshole. The 2000 and 2004 elections were a coup for these warmongers.

Exclusive Copy of Jeb Bush Letter Praising Swift Liars

<...>

Excerpt from Jeb Bush's letter:

"As someone who truly understands the risk of standing up for something, I simply cannot express in words how much I value their willingness to stand up against John Kerry."

http://daoureportgrit.blogspot.com/2006/05/exclusive-copy-of-jeb-bush-letter.html

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:22 PM

12. I sent your post to the Greatest Page. I hope it's not too late. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:53 PM

42. And ol' myth wrongney had a bunch of 'em lined up to be his foreign policy advisors.



MAN did we EVER dodge a bullet there!!!

These greedy belligerent fiends are like trapdoor spiders. Hiding for now, but ever-present. And just waiting for their time to come again.

WHENEVER you have to decide on a candidate for high office, you can't afford just to study that candidate and leave it at that. It's more critically, even urgently, important to know who they have assembled around them to advise them and coach them and "educate" them about issues and policies. It's not just the candidate him/herself. IT'S WHO THEY BRING INTO OFFICE WITH THEM!!! Especially those who don't need Senate confirmation or any other kind of formal vetting as a condition of hiring or of being appointed. Those, especially, are dangerous because they are thus accountable to no one but the successful candidate who brought them into power.

So you have to watch EVERY republi-CON and even so-called "moderates" and "independents" - both of whom are in actuality neither all that moderate NOR that independent. I worry that even a Jon Huntsman might bring some of the PNACers in with him if he got elected. Because, moderate or not, he's still a republi-CON, and we all know painfully well who republi-CONS hang with, and listen to, and pay the most attention to, and to whom they give the most access and who they freeze out and ignore.

From here on, that HAS to be one of the leading guidelines for deciding for whom to vote. Just one example: randy scheunemann - a BOARD MEMBER of the PNAC from the earliest, advised rummy on Iraq, advised john mccain on foreign policy during hte '08 campaign, coached (in some frustration, I might add) sarah palin in her debate prep against Joe Biden, and was often consulted when wrongney was the candidate, in both press queries and behind the scenes. These bad pennies just keep turning up, again and again and again and again. And let's all remember john bolton. He has VERY PNAC-dirty hands - remember the obnoxious spectacle he made of himself while (I CRINGE to say this) America's ambassador to the United Nations during the bush/cheney years. What an utter slap in the face to the whole world!!!! And he was circling around the outskirts of the wrongney foreign policy team - already considered a likely Secretary of State. JESUS, MARY, and JOSEPH!!!!! OH GOD would we have been sunk as a country if THAT had happened.

I was stunned, several years ago when I noticed Michael O'Hanlon's name as a PNAC signatory. SHOCKING!!! During that miserable time when bush/cheney held America hostage, the ONLY voice that was allowed ANY room or face-time at all in the media SUPPOSEDLY to "represent" the opposing view on the buildup to the Iraq war. He was from the Brookings Institution, at the time the ONLY think tank or foundation or institution to be found on the left side of the political spectrum, while even back then there was the Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, the Cato Institute, the Hoover Institute, the Eagle Forum, and umpteen-dozen other organizations available to go on camera and on radio and in print and write those editorials and commentaries and appear on all those talk shows and cable programs and panel discussions and guest (and even guest-host) on all those millions of hate-radio shows. On our side, there was only the Brookings Institution - when anybody in the media even bothered to make room for the "other side." And fucking michael o'hanlon's name turns up as a signatory of the PNAC. SHEESH!!!! A true wolf in sheep's clothing. And HE was the only one we had. Or the only one who was given any exposure - SUPPOSEDLY to represent the opposing view. That's certainly one for the "Yeah, SUUUUUUUUUUUURE" file. When I spotted his name on that PNAC list, I freaked! Brookings Institution be damned - he was one of THEM. One of the BAD GUYS.

Hey, brothers and sisters, remember the warnings Mad-Eye Moody always gave to Harry Potter: one, of course, was "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!!" And the other one was "YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW!!!!!" Just as you've got to know who the Death Eaters are in the Harry Potter world - you've ABSOLUTELY, DEFINITELY, and URGENTLY GOT TO KNOW who the bad guys are in real life and politics. You've GOT to know not only who the players are, but who's advising them, putting ideas into their empty heads, and steering them toward and into directions of sheer evil, war, death, and criminality.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:01 PM

46. I like your signature line.

I realize this is not relevant to this thread, but I just wanted to say that.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:21 PM

57. Thanks, it's a quote from a 2009 (floor speech) by Senator Kerry. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:11 PM

6. ...and Bill Kristol and Charles Craphammer still suck! n/t

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:12 PM

8. Yes, and I'm sure they are still part of the strategists behind all of this

push to invade Iran and probably North Korea if they are successful in getting Washington to invade Iran.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:57 PM

43. Yep. You've GOTTA keep track of 'em. ALL of 'em.

And who THEY hang with - in and out of power. Remember bill kristol has a whole set-up of his own with his Weekly Standard magazine that spews all kinds of PNAC and NeoCON poison at every step. Think of the rat's nest THAT is! And who's involved there, writing and editing, and eventually of course, getting face-time on Pox Noise to legitimize them as the next generation of movers and shakers from Hell.

It's exhausting. But it has to be done. We HAVE TO keep track of these people - where they scatter to, and who they work for now, and in what circles they're still actively moving, since they're still out of power with President Obama reelected and the White House remaining OUT of enemy hands. Thank GOD!

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:21 PM

11. PNAC was an offshoot of the Heritage Foundation

 

Did you mean the American Enterprise Institute?

Not that it makes much difference. The American Enterprise Institute and the Heratage Foundation are like identical twins with their agendas.

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Response to rdharma (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:24 PM

13. The Heritage Foundation is part of the American Enterprise Institute.

They all are funded mostly by the Koch brothers so they are pretty incestuous in their relationship. Same people and same wacky ideas abound in all of those institutes.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:25 PM

14. Who else is a founding member

The younger Bush.

Iran....if he ever gets to the WH.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:25 PM

15. Yes, Jeb along with Dick Cheney. n/t

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:00 PM

45. You bet your sweet bippy. Li'l jebbie bush is a PNAC signatory.

That ALONE is reason enough to work like hell to keep him OUT of the White House. 'Cause if he gets there, he brings all that same PNAC vermin and all their little friends back into power with him. Take that one to the bank. It doesn't matter HOW circumspect he sounds now, about the Iraq war, it doesn't matter HOW reasonable he talks now. He's STILL one of them. And not to be trusted as far as you can throw your car.

These bastards ALL have to be watched. ALL THE TIME. We have to know where they are and who they hang with AT ALL TIMES! Because that's always a good indication of what they're up to.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:39 PM

17. A lot of people also don't know Bush warrantless wiretapping started prior to 9/11...

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:43 PM

19. Yes, we got sucked into a rabbit hole with the Bush coronation.

He is nothing more than an usurper king and history should record him as such. He quickly took on as many powers of a dictator as he dared and this was one of them.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:42 PM

18. It always amazed me that

they actually used their real names.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:45 PM

21. It always amazed me that they thought their ideas were popular.

I believe this is why they were so open to it and used their names. They thought all Americans would think this was wonderful, well trust funded, entitled, white, male Americans anyway. The rest of us didn't matter.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:59 PM

44. That's a big problem actually. See, these people didn't go away. They were arrogant

enough back then to put it all out in the public. Now they have all gone underground. Underground as in they don't broadcast their world domination plan. But the ideology is there and flourishing. I would even go so far as saying they have a majority of politicians supporting them.

If you floated this for a vote it wouldn't get 15% of the population supporting it though.

Some Democracy we live in.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:45 PM

20. Truly evil people

Responsible for millions of deaths.

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Response to treestar (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:47 PM

22. Yep, their signatures read like a roster of the damned. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:14 PM

29. Here's a list I made back in 2010: PNAC members in positions of power during the Bush pResidency...

PNAC members in positions of power during the Bush pResidency...
Neocons in positions of power:

Dick Cheney - Vice President

Donald Rumsfeld - Secretary of Defense

Paul Wolfowitz - Deputy Secretary of Defense

Richard L. Armitage - United States Deputy Secretary of State

I Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Chief of Staff for VP Cheney

Condoleeza Rice - US National Security Adviser

Stephen Hadley - Deputy National Security Advisor

Elliot Abrams - National Security Council Senior Director for Democracy, Human Rights, and International Operations

John Bolton - Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security

Paula Dobriansky - Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs

Zalmay Khalilzad - head the Bush-Cheney transition team for the Department of Defense and Khalilzad briefly served as Counselor to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

Richard Perle - Chairman of the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee

Peter W. Rodman - 1995-2001 Director of National Security Programs, Nixon Center.
July 16, 2001 - March 2007 Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs

William Schneider, Jr. - Chairman of the Defense Science Board

R. James Woolsey - Within hours of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Woolsey appeared on television suggesting Iraqi complicity.

Robert B. Zoellick - U.S. Trade Representative - member of the Executive Office, with the rank of Ambassador


These shit stains infiltrated our Government and Military and there's no telling how many of their followers/moles have done the same. They were/are hellbent on bringing about their New World Order.

Do you want to take a crack at some more of them? Have fun!

Original 25 PNAC Signatories

Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
Lewis Scooter Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz

Additional PNAC Signatories

Morton Abramowitz
Gordon Adams
Ken Adelman
Urban Ahlin
Madeleine K. Albright
Richard V. Allen
Giuliano Amato
Mark A. Anderson
Uzi Arad
Richard L. Armitage
Timothy Garton Ash
Anders Aslund
Ronald Asmus
Andrew Y. Au
Maureen Aung-Thwin
Nina Bang-Jensen
Rafael L. Bardaji
Carolyn Bartholomew
Wladyslaw Bartoszewski
Arnold Beichman
Peter Beinart
Jeffrey Bell
Jeffrey Bergner
Robert L. Bernstein
George Biddle
Carl Bildt
Daniel Blumenthal
John Bolton
Max Boot
Ellen Bork
Rudy Boshwitz
Pascal Bruckner
Mark Brzezinski
William F. Buckley, Jr
Reinhard Buetikofer
Janusz Bugajski
Buster C. Glosson (USAF Ret),
Michael Butler
Martin Butora
Daniele Capezzone
Per Carlsen
Gunilla Carlsson
Frank Carlucci
Linda Chavez
Steven C. Clemons
Seth Cropsey
Ivo H. Daalder
Helle Dale
Massimo D'Alema
Dennis DConcini
Pavol Demes
Larry Diamond
Peter Dimitrov
James Dobbins
Thomas Donnelly
Nicholas Eberstadt
Robert Edgar
Uffe Elleman-Jensen
Amitai Etzioni
Lee Feinstein
Edwin J. Feulner, Jr.
Jeffrey L. Fiedler
Michele Flournoy
Hillel Fradkin
Aaron Friedberg
Frank Gaffney
Peter Galbraith
Jeffrey Gedmin
Sam Gejdenson
Robert S. Gelbard
Reuel Marc Gerecht
Bronislaw Geremek
Carl Gershmann
Marc Ginsberg
Andre Glucksmann
Merle Goldman
Philip Gordon
Daniel Goure
Istvan Gyarmati
Morton Halperin
Pierre Hassner
Vaclav Havel
John Herfferman
Charles Hill
Richard C. Holbrooke
James Hooper
Toomas Ilves
Martin S. Indyk
Bruce P. Jackson
Eli S. Jacobs
Michael Joyce
Frederick Kagan
Robert Kagan
Max M. Kampelman
Adrian Karatnycky
Penn Kemble
Craig Kennedy
Paul Kennedy
Col. Robert Killebrew (USA, Ret)
Glenys Kinnock
Lane Kirklan
Jeane J. Kirkpatrick
Harold Hongju Koh
Bernard Kouchner
Peter Kovler
Jerzy Kozminski
Louis Kraar
van Krastev
Charles Krauthammer
William Kristol
Girts Valdis Kristovskis
Ludger Kuehnhardt
Mart Laar
Mark Lagon
Anthony Lake
Vytautas Landsbergis
Stephen Larrabee
John Lehman
Lewis E. Lehrman
Mark Leonard
Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger
Tod Lindberg
James Lindsay
Perry Link
Bette Bao Lord
Rich Lowry
Connie Mack
Christopher Makins
Tom Malinowski
James Mann
Yu Mao-chun
Mary Beth Markey
Will Marshall
Margarita Mathiopoulos
Clifford May
Sen. John McCain
Michael McFaul
Daniel McKivergan
Matteo Mecacci
Mark Medish
Edwin Meese III
Thomas O. Melia
Saah E. Mendelson
Michael Mertes
Ilir Meta
Adam Michnik
Derek Mitchell
Richard Morningstar
Joshua Muravchik
Klaus Naumann
Wing C. Ng
Steven J. Nider
Dietmar Nietan
James O'Brien
Michael O'Hanlon
Janusz Onyszkiewicz
Mackubin Thomas Owens
Wayne Owens
Cem Ozdemir
Can Paker
Mark Palmer
Martin Peretz
Richard Perle
Ralph Peters
Friedbert Pflueger
Daniel Pipes
Danielle Pletka
Norman Podhoretz
John Edward Porter
Florentino Portero
Barry R. McCaffrey (Gen. USA, Ret)
Samantha Ravich
Anusz Reiter
Sophie Richardson
Robert H. Scales (USA, Ret)
Peter Rodman
Alex Rondos
Jim Rosapepe
Dennis Ross
Kenneth Roth
Jacques Rupnik
Eberhard Sandschneider
Randy Scheunemann
Christian Schmidt
Gary Schmitt
William Schneider, Jr.
Charles Schumer Senator
Simon Serfaty
Stephen Sestanovich
John Shattuck
Sin-Ming Shaw
Richard H. Shultz
Radek Sikorski
Stefano Silvestri
Martin Simecka
Paul Simon
Walter Slocombe
Gary Smith
Abraham Sofaer
Henry Sokolski
Stephen J. Solarz
Helmut Sonnenfeldt
James B. Steinberg
Leonard Sussman
John J. Sweeney
William Howard Taft IV
Dick Thornburgh
Gry Titley
John Tkacik
Helga Flores Trejo
Ed Turner
Karl-Theodor von zu Guttenberg
Ivan Vejvoda
Sasha Vondra
Arthur Waldron
Cleste Wallander
Malcolm Wallop
James Webb
Ruth Wedgood
Caspar Weinberger
Kenneth Weinstein
Richard Weitz
Paul Weyrich
Leon Wieseltier
Chris Williams
Jennifer Windsor
Marshall Wittmann
R. James Woolsey
Minky Worden
Larry Wortzel
Dov Zakheim
Robert B. Zoellick

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x73139#73211

Peace,

Ghost

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:19 PM

30. Amazing that the Koch Brothers were so able to keep their names out of this

and yet it seems that they are the Admiral and Captain of the Mother Ship. That's really impressive Ghost. It's going into my bookmarks.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:27 PM

34. Thank you, Cleita

I also had a post on the old DU about how Cheney was trying to get Wolfowitz into the Pentagon before the recount was done, or even before the SCOTUS stepped in. He was willing to spend his own money to do it, too!

Peace,

Ghost

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:29 PM

36. I really hope Cheney goes to trial somewhere. I hope he forgets some day that several

countries have a warrant out for him for war crimes and some cities in the US. Don't ask me which right now because I only remember reading about it but not the particulars. Anyway, I hope he forgets and he goes to those places and they arrest him and put him on trial. It would be so sweet.

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:40 PM

40. I was dismayed to see Vaclav Havel on that list.

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:31 PM

67. Bookmarking. I was going to ask if anyone had a list like this. n/t

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:03 PM

69. Excellent list. n/t

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:35 PM

86. Charles Schumer is on there.

Why?

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:52 PM

23. Renamed and gone underground....

I know individually they are still active, as a group not as much. They may have gone underground to collectively come up with a new agenda and then disperse to other groups. Makes it harder for them to have a public (cough, cough, transparent) agenda.

Good point.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:01 PM

27. They just aren't putting their ideas out there for everyone to see.

It makes me think of back room deals that were made in the past and no one was aware of them until it was too late. It even makes them more dangerous.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:55 PM

24. The DLC website is still "up" too,

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:59 PM

26. Ssh. The cult of personality

Is now the only litmus test. Either you as a leader are popular or you aren't - doesn't matter what policies you have made as part of your agenda.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:28 PM

35. Talk About!

Bush could NOT have gone to Iraq without active HELP from the Democratic Party leadership,
....but NOW it is ALL Bush-the-Lesser and those PNAC people LIED us into WAR.

Those who don't know History....

Those who try to re-write History....

Truth IS that most of the Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party DID oppose the Invasion of Iraq, but then, as now, they were marginalized by the more conservative Big Business/Free Trade faction of the Party (DLC etc).

ANYBODY holding a position in the Democratic Party who claims that Bush Fooled Them should be eliminated from that position for a shocking lack of good judgement.
EVERYBODY KNEW that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld were LYING.

Some chose to STAND against them,
but others went with the flow for reasons of Political Convenience,
or supported Bush for more venal reasons.

I'm sure that ALL who helped to needlessly kill a MILLION Iraqis would prefer to cover up their participation,
or rationalize it away with excuses ("Bush Lied" What could I doooooo? ),
but the HISTORY is written for all who choose to see.


The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.

The Authorization to Use Military Force in Iraq
(The Iraq War Resolution)

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu


Some Democrats who originally voted FOR the Invasion of Iraq
later recanted their vote, and apologized.
Others, like Hillary, have stood by their vote.

No Democrat who OPPOSED the Invasion of Iraq has been appointed to a position of authority or power in the current administration.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







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Response to bvar22 (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:32 PM

37. Yep, this is the reason, I have never been a supporter of Hillary Clinton

although I probably would have voted for her for President if she had been the candidate in the General Election.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:20 PM

81. How about Hagel? He was a Republican who voted for the war, people run around here claiming

he was an opponent of the war. He was on board and on board hard for years on end.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #81)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:25 PM

82. Don't care for him or many other of Obama's other RW picks either.

I'm not one of those "running around" praising him although he has come to oppose the wars so are the claims made. I personally would have preferred a Wesley Clark but I'm not the President so why even bring this up to me?

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:05 PM

47. Hillary Clinton was quite a hawk. And still no apology

as far as I know.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 01:19 AM

77. Hillary Seems To Be The Odds On Favorite For 2016 President.....

should we hold this against her? What's the speculation with respect to Iran if she does get elected President? Is Biden a better candidate for President instead of Hillary because of her hawkishness? Just askin?

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Response to global1 (Reply #77)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:42 AM

87. Hillary is and was too hawkish for me. She is also, in my

opinion, too old. I'm a few years older than she is. Trust me, she will be too old to be president for the full 8 years.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:08 PM

49. Sabo (MN), also the late...

although his seat is now occupied by the Honorable Keith Ellison!

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:14 PM

52. I'm not certain to whom you are referring to as "the late"...

...but if you mean Paul Wellstone,
he was a Senator, and Al Franken now has his seat.


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:13 PM

72. Sabo is still alive

He wrote an article for MinnPost a couple of weeks ago, but he seems to have started to learn rightward in his old age.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:57 PM

25. my two pennies on PNAC

Committee for the Liberation of Iraq which lobbied through Rice's office had a cast of characters from PNAC's bowels:

Members of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq included, John McCain, Newt Gingrich, William Kristol, General Barry McCaffrey, and former CIA director James Woolsey. (Woolsey proposed the reinstatement of a constitutional monarchy in Iraq, in which a king would appoint the prime minister.)

George Shultz, Amb. Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton, and Elliot Abrams were also involved with the group. Abrams and Bolton are founding members of the CLI.

Elliot Abrams is a senior Bush official on the National Security Council. He was formally head of President Reagan's efforts in the Middle East. Abrams, was convicted for President Reagan's crimes in the Iran-Contra scandal and then pardoned by Bush I.

As assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs under President Reagan, Abrams was responsible for the controversial policies of that administration in Nicaragua and El Salvador during the 1980s, and played a key role in the U.S. relationship with Manuel Noriega. In 2000, Abrams was made the improbable president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center. In 2001 he was hired by Condolezza Rice for a position on the NSC overseeing Arab/ Israeli negotiations. http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6895 (The Return of Elliot Abrams)

Among the other participants in the CLI were: president and executive director, Randy Scheunemann (Scheunemann served until recently as a consultant on Iraq to Donald Rumsfeld), Treasurer Julie Finley, Gary Schmitt (director of the conservative foundation, Project for the New American Century) and Richard Perle, (chairman of Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board), who is also closely associated PNAC.

The present war with Iraq is the ambition of the corporate wing of the conservative establishment who views Iraq as a potential wedge against the domination of Mideast oil-producing nations which, in many respects, are openly hostile to American economic interests in the region. Having failed to turn the first war to their corporate advantage, the exiled power brokers brooded and plotted to revive a public campaign against Saddam Hussein which would unseat the dictator and allow the U.S. to install an authority there compliant to American business concerns.

Ominously, in the fall of 2002 the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (Chairman of the Board, Bruce Jackson), was established in the Washington offices of the right-wing American Enterprise Institute. The CLI engaged in educational and advocacy efforts to mobilize U.S. and international support for policies aimed at ending the regime of Saddam Hussein.
http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo1119.html
http://www.aei.org /

This advocacy came at the same time that Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley were engaged in a series of briefings with foreign policy groups, Iraq specialists and other opinion makers that was termed as a "new phase," by a White House spokesman, who described the goal as building fresh public support for Bush administration policy vs. Iraq.

Members of the CLI met in November of 2002 with President Bush's national security adviser, Condi Rice, in an effort to mount "education and advocacy efforts to mobilize U.S. and international support freeing the Iraqi people from tyranny."

Condi Rice would be an unremarkable figure in this Bush administration, if she were judged solely on her work experience outside of government, in which she perfected the role of corporate promoter and apologist.

From her position at the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors, to the board rooms of the Transamerica Corporation, and Hewlett Packard, Rice forged the corporate relationships which propelled her into the White House executive club. Rice, is a former longtime member of the board of directors of Chevron Oil, which merged with Texaco. Rice has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

Rice's contribution to the Bush dynasty began when the Soviet Union collapsed and the Bush I administration needed an experienced Sovietologist. She was basically bullish on the Soviets and she was appointed Director of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council.

She was undoubtably brought on board to teach George I and his clan the difference between Perestroika and Glasnost. She has assumed the traditional role of an international affairs Svengali to George II - a role that has distinguished such past notables as, Colin Powell, John Poindexter and Robert Iran-Contra McFarland - and she dutifully adjusted our experience-deficient commander-in-chief to the doctrine of her conservative think-tank benefactors.

Her deputy sidekick, Stephen Hadley, has been advocating policies for many years which have, to no one's surprise, found their way into the ideological bulldozer which forms the doctrine of the Bush league's foreign policy.

Stephen Hadley served as assistant secretary of defense for international security policy from 1989 to 1993 and was responsible for defense policy on NATO and Western Europe, nuclear weapons and ballistic missile defense, and arms control. He was active in the negotiations that resulted in the START I and START II treaties.

Hadley was also a member of the National Security Council staff during the earlier Bush administration. Former Lockheed president, Bruce Jackson and former Lockheed counsel, Hadley have worked closely together on the Committee to Expand NATO. Jackson was president of this entity, based in the Washington offices of the right-wing American Enterprise Institute; Hadley was its secretary.
http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/articles/petrasse... (Nato Expansion, James Petras)

As reported by Karl Grossman of the Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space, Stephen Hadley told an Air Force Association Convention in a speech September 11, 2000, "Space is going to be important. It has a great feature in the military,"
http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/feb01grossman.htm (Aerospace Executives On Bush Star Wars Team, Karl Grossman)

Hadley worked closely with the Bush-Cheney campaign as a foreign policy advisor specializing in European and Russian affairs. He was a partner in Shea & Gardner, the Washington law firm representing Lockheed Martin. He was a member of the Vulcans, an eight-person foreign policy team formed during the Bush campaign that included Condoleezza Rice and Richard Perle.


*me- internet-derivative book, 2004 'Power of Mischief'

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Response to bigtree (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:22 PM

32. Thank you for posting this very important information and for

expanding what people need to know about this. I hope Rachel Maddow will delve into this in her special. I haven't read the book she is building her show from, so I don't know if what we all knew back then will be included.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:13 PM

28. They wrote a letter Pres. Clinton in 1998 to persuade

him to use military action against Iraq over wmd's. It's had been their plan for years. All they needed was the Supreme Court to appoint GWB to go along with their plans.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:22 PM

31. Well, Colin Powell sure modified his place in history

with the public lies to the UN and US.
Not that they're back, they just changed the storefront.

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Response to mitchtv (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:24 PM

33. He sure smeared poo all over his reputation with that move

and still hasn't been able to wash it off.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:33 PM

38. Yep... K & R !!!


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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:35 PM

39. Yes, they were the big pro-war propagandists.

Chaired by Kristol

http://www.newamericancentury.org/aboutpnac.htm

The group: Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:50 PM

41. pdr_pnac.mp3

Intensive 30-minute info-music pnac immersion
http://freechannel.org/pdr_pnac.mp3

Originally posted 2005-08-16 (downloads too slow lately):
http://radio.indymedia.org/en/node/6404


Pass it on.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:06 PM

48. "Why rehash this tired old shit now? Wanting to smear Tom Harkin?"

"Most of the folks on the "YES" list have recanted their votes. Said it was wrong and a mistake.

I can't remember how many times we have gone over and over the IWR vote.

And honestly I'd personally like to kick every DU'er in the ASS who campaigned against John Kerry in 2004 with their fucking "But he voted for the WAR." bullshit. In '04 we had a chance to elect a LIBERAL for President. But we fucking threw it away for FOUR MORE YEARS OF BUSH and his economic meltdown. "

Someone actually said this on DU.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #48)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:08 PM

50. Huh? This old shit brought us to the new shit we are dealing with now.

Rachel did say it would be upsetting.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:13 PM

51. I agree, but there ARE DUers who are saying we should let sleeping dogs lie.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:17 PM

54. Only if they are dead and can't bite us anymore.

These sleeping dogs are very much awake, in positions of power, and making so much money, my head would spin. You weren't very clear that you were copying another post. Sorry.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:22 PM

58. I was hoping the quotation marks would do that :)

And I agree. Never forget the lapse of judgment (to use a charitable phrase) on a vote for the war. I expect my elected representatives to be a smarter than that.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:33 PM

60. Next time, add a link for those of us who need

instructions.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:48 PM

63. k :)

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Response to Cleita (Reply #54)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 01:40 AM

79. Again - We're At A Point Where We All Know Where The Sleeping Dogs Lay - And We Know What They Are..

up to as well.

We sit here and criticize them and almost predict what they will do if they get back into power. Yet we are powerless to do anything to prevent any of this from happening - just like we were powerless to prevent BushCo from getting us into these two unnecessary wars.

Are we going to be looking back 10 years hence and say the same things about Iran then that we are saying now about how BushCo lied to us and deceived us into these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

A lot of us knew then what BushCo was up to - but we couldn't prevent them from doing it.

It just pisses me off that we know now who is the problem (like the Koch Bros and their minions) and we all know what needs to be done to fix the economy and get this great country back on track - but we are powerless to make it happen. We sit here on DU and criticize. We listen to MSNBC hosts like Maddow, Schultz, O'Donnell, Hayes, Matthews and hear them tell us what the problems are and who is at fault - we hear them criticize - we criticize - yet we are still powerless to do anything about any of this.

We hear the likes of a Thom Hartmann tell us all the bad things that Reagan brought down on us and how Reagan basically began the dismantling of this country. We hear Mitch McConnell say that his only goal is to make Obama a one term President. We hear John Boehner say he will not negotiate with the President. We see the filibuster tactics in play. We see the House Repugs voting in a block to block this President on virtually everything he tries to do. We see them criticizing him for not taking the lead and then we see the President take the lead and then get criticized for taking the lead and hear them saying that he should stay out of it.

All this is going on under our very eyes - and - we are powerless to prevent it.

Call me a conspiracy theorist - but someone, somewhere is out to take down the United States - and this has been going on for a long time now - and by God - it looks like they are succeeding - and - we are powerless to prevent it.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:16 PM

53. Sounds eerily similar to Mitt Romney's campaign rhetoric.

I'm sure that's completely coincidental though.

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Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #53)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:20 PM

55. Guess who gives him his talking points.

Sarcasm duly noted.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:21 PM

56. PNAC believed that liberty, democracy and capitalism were contagious.

All they needed was to take out a middle east dictator, shove a pallet of democracy and freedom out the back of a C130, and everything else would take care of itself.

THAT is why everything in Iraq turned to shit. They had no actual plan for what would happen if the Iraqis didn't spontaneously start erecting monuments to Bush and start signing big contracts with US corporations.

Here's one tragically hilarious idea they had that, um, didn't work out: "Destination Baghdad"!

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11239

Most of this insanity has disappeared down the memory hole.

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:25 PM

59. "...start signing big contracts with US corporations."

I think that happened, not with the Iraqis, but with our government sending contractors over there and to Afghanistan. Mucho bucks have been made at taxpayer expense, not their taxes because they really don't pay taxes, but the taxes paid by our diminishing middle class.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #59)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:36 PM

61. True, but the PNACers really thought it would be different.

They set up the "Iraqi-American Chamber of Commerce" to bring prosperity to the Iraqis and especially to all of the corporations that would be opening offices, factories, Mcdonalds, Victoria's Secret outlets and call centers there.

They never got much beyond the "security contractor" stage. They should all be in jail.

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:42 PM

62. I agree they should all be in jail.

If nothing else but for stupidity. The first time I read their website and this was before the push to go to Iraq, I thought their ideas to be juvenile and not very well thought out. I think they should have spent their time making a video game instead or maybe bird houses in their garage.

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:49 AM

76. Read "Imperial Life in the Emerald City." It's all there -

the attempted corporatization of Iraq. Really bizarre stuff.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:12 PM

64. I think Rachel Maddow is going to be shining the lights on the cockroaches.

 

She is an absolute expert in providing background on scumbags like these. She can take the most twisting turning story and present it in an easily understandable (and entertaining) way.

She's not only smart...... she's scary smart!

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Response to rdharma (Reply #64)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:13 PM

65. I'm hoping. She is basing it on that Hubris book so since I haven't read it, I don't

know if they dig down as deep as the PNAC involvement.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #65)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:28 PM

66. We were talking about birds of a feather .......

 

..... (Heritage Foundation and American Enterprise Institute).

Did you know...... that the PNAC, The Weekly Standard, and the AEI all shared the same building in DC?

I don't know if they still do........ but it's a small world ain't it?!!!

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Response to rdharma (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:36 PM

68. Sure and they shared each other and their major benefactors the Koch brothers.

They were all in each other's beds.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:58 PM

70. kr

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Response to Agony (Reply #73)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:43 AM

75. Thanks for the links.

What a roster of cockroaches.

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:42 PM

74. k & r! nt

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 01:40 AM

78. and despite bush being out of office, those pnac dominoes keep falling: libya, syria...

 

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Response to Cleita (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:55 AM

80. I was always intrigued that Iraq was the only country...

...singled out on the PNAC world map. And it was Iraq that the Bushistas claimed had WMDs.

A coincidence? I think not...


________

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Response to KansDem (Reply #80)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:45 PM

84. No, I think the original wording of the Iraq War Authorization was intended

to allow the Bush administration to strike anywhere in the Middle East. Look up Joe Biden on that, when he was the Foreign Relations Committee chair--I think he prevented it from happening.

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Response to KansDem (Reply #80)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:23 PM

85. Iraq wasn't the only country

I remember in the early days, just after Bush stuffed his crotch and did his Mission Accomplished speech and all the neocons were gloating and dancing and proclaiming what geniuses they were, there was already talk of moving on into Syria. They were planning to invade pretty much every hostile country in the Middle East: Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. Now if you look at a map, all of those countries are adjacent to each other and all have lots of oil. Who did we put in charge of Afghanistan? Hamid Karzai, a former Unocal oil man.

With all those countries conquered, all they would have to do is put a pipeline running through all of them, and that would pump out oil right into the Mediterranean for the next 100 years, securing America's dominance into the next century. Oh, and make them all a shitload of money in the process.

The Iraqi insurgency put a damper on their plans. They were so arrogant they never thought a bunch of rag tag militia with homemade bombs could pose a challenge to the U.S. military. But like many fascists before them, they were wrong.

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