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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:35 PM

MSNBC: "A hoax. That's what it was.": New evidence that Bush scammed the nation into war.

"Hubris": New Documentary Reexamines the Iraq War "Hoax"
MSNBC film, hosted by Rachel Maddow and based on Michael Isikoff and David Corn's book, finds new evidence that Bush scammed the nation into war.


.................. the documentary goes beyond what Isikoff and I covered in Hubris, presenting new scoops and showing that the complete story of the selling of that war has yet to be told.



One chilling moment in the film comes in an interview with retired General Anthony Zinni, a former commander in chief of US Central Command. In August 2002, the Bush-Cheney administration opened its propaganda campaign for war with a Cheney speech at the annual Veterans of Foreign Wars convention. The veep made a stark declaration: "There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us." No doubt, he proclaimed, Saddam was arming himself with WMD in preparation for attacking the United States.

Zinni was sitting on the stage during the speech, and in the documentary he recalls his reaction:

It was a shock. It was a total shock. I couldn't believe the vice president was saying this, you know? In doing work with the CIA on Iraq WMD, through all the briefings I heard at Langley, I never saw one piece of credible evidence that there was an ongoing program. And that's when I began to believe they're getting serious about this. They wanna go into Iraq.


That Zinni quote should almost end the debate on whether the Bush-Cheney administration purposefully guided the nation into war with misinformation and disinformation.

But there's more. So much more. The film highlights a Pentagon document declassified two years ago. This memo notes that in November 2001—shortly after the 9/11 attacks—Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld met with General Tommy Franks to review plans for the "decapitation" of the Iraqi government. The two men reviewed how a war against Saddam could be triggered; that list included a "dispute over WMD inspections." It's evidence that the administration was seeking a pretense for war.

....................

So Much MORE:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/hubris-rachel-maddow-documentary-iraq-war-david-corn

155 replies, 16668 views

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Reply MSNBC: "A hoax. That's what it was.": New evidence that Bush scammed the nation into war. (Original post)
kpete Feb 2013 OP
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2013 #1
gateley Feb 2013 #21
SugarShack Feb 2013 #107
SkyDaddy7 Feb 2013 #123
gateley Feb 2013 #124
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #133
LiberalLoner Feb 2013 #153
gateley Feb 2013 #155
iemitsu Feb 2013 #32
George II Feb 2013 #39
iemitsu Feb 2013 #46
AverageMe Feb 2013 #50
calimary Feb 2013 #62
RKP5637 Feb 2013 #81
secondwind Feb 2013 #89
lunatica Feb 2013 #71
magical thyme Feb 2013 #80
lark Feb 2013 #130
iemitsu Feb 2013 #154
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #2
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #11
bjobotts Feb 2013 #18
Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #22
iemitsu Feb 2013 #93
Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #97
SomethingFishy Feb 2013 #100
Botany Feb 2013 #115
mwb970 Feb 2013 #125
George II Feb 2013 #40
cantbeserious Feb 2013 #3
gateley Feb 2013 #25
Mnpaul Feb 2013 #44
gateley Feb 2013 #51
Mnpaul Feb 2013 #56
gateley Feb 2013 #83
Volaris Feb 2013 #92
gateley Feb 2013 #122
msongs Feb 2013 #4
cantbeserious Feb 2013 #6
Ilsa Feb 2013 #5
cantbeserious Feb 2013 #7
Berlum Feb 2013 #68
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #102
JHB Feb 2013 #8
Octafish Feb 2013 #9
gateley Feb 2013 #33
Bonobo Feb 2013 #10
R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #42
Skittles Feb 2013 #48
Agony Feb 2013 #76
aquart Feb 2013 #12
hay rick Feb 2013 #20
idwiyo Feb 2013 #117
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #29
Demobrat Feb 2013 #37
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #41
global1 Feb 2013 #59
dtom67 Feb 2013 #13
Archae Feb 2013 #14
russspeakeasy Feb 2013 #15
ladjf Feb 2013 #16
riverbendviewgal Feb 2013 #17
Lasher Feb 2013 #19
SheilaT Feb 2013 #23
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #45
99Forever Feb 2013 #87
Marr Feb 2013 #138
laundry_queen Feb 2013 #64
Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2013 #88
blm Feb 2013 #99
SheilaT Feb 2013 #149
mwb970 Feb 2013 #128
Euphoria Feb 2013 #152
Straw Man Feb 2013 #136
Lobo27 Feb 2013 #24
Brewinblue Feb 2013 #26
nonoxy9 Feb 2013 #27
Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2013 #28
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #30
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #63
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #74
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #77
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #78
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #79
kohodog Feb 2013 #96
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #146
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #145
johnnyreb Feb 2013 #95
WillyT Feb 2013 #31
notadmblnd Feb 2013 #34
Livluvgrow Feb 2013 #35
kohodog Feb 2013 #98
Livluvgrow Feb 2013 #103
idwiyo Feb 2013 #119
Whisp Feb 2013 #36
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #147
Whisp Feb 2013 #148
DallasNE Feb 2013 #38
Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2013 #90
colsohlibgal Feb 2013 #43
sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #85
loyalsister Feb 2013 #47
triplepoint Feb 2013 #49
blackspade Feb 2013 #52
upi402 Feb 2013 #53
harmonicon Feb 2013 #54
Marr Feb 2013 #58
Auntie Bush Feb 2013 #134
deutsey Feb 2013 #75
johnnyreb Feb 2013 #55
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #57
calimary Feb 2013 #60
prouddem19665nvd Feb 2013 #61
just1voice Feb 2013 #65
polly7 Feb 2013 #66
rwsanders Feb 2013 #110
polly7 Feb 2013 #141
Berlum Feb 2013 #67
RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #69
90-percent Feb 2013 #70
GoCubsGo Feb 2013 #72
kentuck Feb 2013 #73
leveymg Feb 2013 #82
caseymoz Feb 2013 #84
Loubee Feb 2013 #86
Gorp Feb 2013 #91
L0oniX Feb 2013 #94
still_one Feb 2013 #101
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #104
AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #105
frylock Feb 2013 #106
iandhr Feb 2013 #108
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #109
RebelOne Feb 2013 #111
gvstn Feb 2013 #112
Botany Feb 2013 #113
RainDog Feb 2013 #114
AsahinaKimi Feb 2013 #116
idwiyo Feb 2013 #121
Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2013 #118
Solly Mack Feb 2013 #120
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #126
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #127
pacalo Feb 2013 #129
KansDem Feb 2013 #131
Lobo27 Feb 2013 #132
humbled_opinion Feb 2013 #135
wildbilln864 Feb 2013 #137
LiberalLovinLug Feb 2013 #139
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #140
Ganja Ninja Feb 2013 #142
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #144
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #143
Skip Intro Feb 2013 #150
Peregrine Took Feb 2013 #151

Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:42 PM

1. After going through the pain of watching Cheney on Charlie Rose the other night, I have no doubts at

all that he is a truly deranged, distorted person, and nothing should be considered out of the realm of possibility for what Cheney, Bush et al did to ensure we did what we regrettably did in Iraq.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:31 PM

21. I was just telling someone he is truly the most scary person I've ever laid eyes on.

Makes my blood run cold.

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Response to gateley (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:32 PM

107. Monday night at 9pm on MSNBC - Since i had to go to the station to find this info

 

Just thought I would insert it here!

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Response to SugarShack (Reply #107)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:55 PM

123. Thanks!! I was just looking...

on the internet and all I could find was the documentary for sale on Amazon for $10...I was pissed that I would have to pay to see it.

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Response to SugarShack (Reply #107)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:55 PM

124. I hope it becomes available online and maybe even on YouTube for

those who don't get MSNBC. Myself, I'll be GLUED to it!

And...maybe OTHER networks will take note and it'll seep into a Big Story in the mainstream media. Not holding my breath, but ten years ago I wouldn't have believed we'd have a Black President, either.

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Response to gateley (Reply #124)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:37 PM

133. I hope it becomes available online

These things are usually available after airing on the TV, on MSNBC's web site.

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Response to gateley (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 10:15 PM

153. I shook hands with him once and was photographed with him.

His eyes frightened me. I felt pure evil emanating from him.

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Response to LiberalLoner (Reply #153)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 02:24 AM

155. I don't really believe in evil, but I make an exception for Cheney. Frightening.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:46 PM

32. And all done to bankrupt the nation so they could

dismantle Social Security and all other safety net programs.
They are a truly evil bunch.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:32 AM

39. It was a deception, but not for the motive you state. Sorry.

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Response to George II (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:06 AM

46. Are you certain of this?

Secure, comfortable workers are bad for business. The right wing has been after Social Security since its conception.
This may not have been the only motivation for the war but it certainly factored into the method of financing the ill-conceived and illegal war.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:18 AM

50. Why is this not on the NBC broadcast network

 

so that people, such as myself, whose cable TV does not carry MSNBC can see it. It is news worthy since it explains why someone like Chuck Hagel would change his position on the war. Call NBC and ask them to broadcast it.

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Response to AverageMe (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:25 AM

62. Welcome to DU, AverageMe!

Because nobody at the big network had the courage. THEY'RE all still interested in not messing with their precious fucking access. "Oh-my-my nobody will talk to me! My sources will dry up. I won't get invited to all those chi-chi Georgetown cocktail parties anymore! Won't get to rub elbows with the high and mighty anymore..."

Rachel Maddow stands head and shoulders above them all. This is valuable information that NEEDS to be out there in the public eye, and in the public square. This was all pushed under the rug, and it's still being sanitized and rewritten and face-lifted today. What a disgrace. We were literally yelling and screaming about it! I remember so well. The petition drives. The email campaigns. The call-your-congresscritter campaigns. The letter-writing campaigns. The protests. The marches. The rallies. EVERYTHING. Nobody covered it. NOBODY asked questions. All those White House press briefings and news conferences were little more than worship sessions and softball tosses. They even had a stooge or two planted in there to lob cutesy little distractions and cream-puff questions and editorializing, to further pollute and pervert the information exchange. Result? It rendered the public neutered, disconnected, and almost irretrievably cynical. Wouldn't trust anybody at that point, even those of us trying to get the truth out there.

What an awful time.

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Response to calimary (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:37 AM

81. Yep, well said! 'Investigative reporting' has morphed into 'cover-up reporting.' Rachel is

one of the few willing to buck the status quo. I am surprised Comcast is allowing this ... unless they see truthful reporting as a new revenue stream and this is the beta.


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Response to AverageMe (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:53 AM

89. welcome, welcome, AverageMe !!!

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:57 AM

71. The reasons were all laid out in PNAC

Project for the New American Century. Scroll down to see all the signatories who launched this thing to ensure that the US would remain the only Superpower country in the world.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:35 AM

80. it was a resource grab, plain and simple

Cheney, Jeb, Wolfewitz, and most of the other "players" in that administration were founders and longtime members of PNAC, which had the goal of establishing the US as the sole world empire via military control of the world's oil. PNAC at one point had a list of target countries to invade and take over. Iraq was #1 on that list; Afghanistan was #2. 9/11 gave them the excuse; they simply needed to reverse the order of their 1st two targets.

Despite their pretense to the contrary, they are fully aware of the reality of peak oil and know that whoever controls the oil supply controls the world.

Destroying our economy was just an unexpected side benefit from their perspective. They honestly expected the wars to be a "cakewalk," the stolen oil to pay for the war, and to be able to continue down their wet dream of taking over all the resource-rich countries in the world.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:02 PM

130. That may have been a desired by-product, but not the main game.

Mainly it was being a "war presidency" so they could jack up daddy's Carlyle Group with more unneeded weapons systems and put Haliburton/KBR as their major vendor with no bid contracts. Well, increasing Cheney's net worth 400% was one of the big goals, but passing all kinds of laws where they could put anyone in jail forever for no reason other than "suspicion", and giving our oil company's control of Iraq's oil fields and building a pipeline through Afghanistan were all in the top 5 as well.

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Response to lark (Reply #130)

Tue Feb 19, 2013, 01:22 AM

154. Yeah, I guess that was Bush's trifecta.

Mr big winner, who now paints peek-a-boo pictures of himself coyly hiding behind the shower curtain. The man who hides from and fears the truth, a fitting theme for his retirement artworks.
If Cheney's life were revealed in a Dorian Grey portrait we would see a bloody monster, devouring the lives and resources of others. In the background we would see nothing of his victims except a pile of their hearts, kept on ice, waiting their turn to briefly vitalize the decrepit King of the Undead.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:42 PM

2. War criminals ............. it is time to arrest bush and them all

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:59 PM

11. Yep. They need to be prosecuted.

This cannot stand.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:24 PM

18. Massive death and destruction 4 profit.

$1 trillion cost to start...$13 trillion to gain from the effort not counting the power. No punishment too great for the Bush/Cheney cartel

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Response to bjobotts (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:34 PM

22. Whose profit? Not America's. Halliburton (Cheney's old co.) profited. Some other contractors

profited. Individuals who were put in charge of things in Iraq profited (like some recent college grad who was put in charge of, believe it or not, setting up from scratch a city...I hope it wasn't Baghdad, but I forget which city - totally inexperienced person who was paid a ton of money for failing to do something she was almost certain to fail at).

Who else profited? I'm sure there are others.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:53 AM

93. Plus palettes of money were "lost" in Iraq.

Money earmarked to pay the families of innocent Iraqis who got in the way of our bullets.
Someone walked off with this money.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #93)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:26 PM

97. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Millions....pics of soldiers walking away with bills...and then just

missing huge amounts of money.

Then there are the stolen treasures. Iraq was the site of the OLDEST known city in the world, so it had some of the oldest human relics in the world. The place was pillaged. No doubt some billionaires have these items sitting in their drawing rooms and basements.

What a waste. The whole damn thing.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #97)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:00 PM

100. Not millions... BILLIONS...

9 Billion dollars missing from Iraq. And the scary part is that is a drop in the bucket compared to the over 2 TRILLION the pentagon can't account for.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #100)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:53 PM

115. Wrap it up in shrink wrap, load it on to pallets, and then fly it off someplace

The whole thing was a big bloody scam based on lies.

?w=600

I think that some in the GOP and god knows who else skimmed billions off of
that war. Dick Cheney did pretty good too.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:19 PM

125. Iran. /nt

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Response to bjobotts (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:33 AM

40. $13 Trillion - isn't that close to what the National Debt was when the idiot left office?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:47 PM

3. America's Low Information Voters Could Care Less - Move Along - Nothing To See

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:38 PM

25. I feel for the people who still trust the news, trust everything they're told.

Too many don't CHOOSE to be low information voters, but are stretched so thin working, trying to take care of their families, and try to keep up by watching the nightly news. They vote, they hope that the people they helped to elect are working for the best interests of our country. They care.

Now I was a low information voter -- I just had no interest and was very cavalier. I CHOSE to be low information.

My heart goes out to the people who honestly think they're doing what is required to be a "good citizen" -- and they are.

There will always be watchdogs and those trying to spread the truth, but they're outspent and quieted.

This country breaks my heart.

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Response to gateley (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:52 AM

44. I agree

Watch the Panama Deception on Youtube or Netflix. The media is intentionally deceiving us. You can see why they want to censor the internet. Jr. Bush was just following in his dad's footsteps.

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:26 AM

51. In this case, anyway, it was Cheney who was intentionally deceiving the media (and the

Congress and the American people...)

I'm not saying the media isn't complicit at times, and true journalists would have dug deeper. But the media has become -- literally -- entertainment. They just read the "news" that comes across their desks.



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Response to gateley (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:06 AM

56. Bush played a part as well

The whole uranium from Niger bit in the SOTU was Bush.

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Response to Mnpaul (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:57 AM

83. And let's not forget Rumsfeld. And others.

I usually use Cheney because I think he his the MOST evil of them all, and the most deranged.

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Response to gateley (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:46 AM

92. well, yeah, entertainment PAYS more.

If the FCC had any damn nerve it would require that any "News" programming brodcast over the PUBLIC airwaves NOT be a profit generator for the Parent Company. If NBC, et al, want to run ads they can, but any revenue generated during that program needs to be donated to a publically approved charity or to JOURNALISM SCHOOLS. Anyone who chooses NOT to do this, must post or read a disclaimer at the end of every commercial break that says THIS PROGRAM IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY, HAS NOT BEEN FACT CHECKED, AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED IN ANY WAY TO BE INFORMATIONAL. IT IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY.

Rush and Glen and Billo would scream like stuck little piggies, and then in 2 weeks they would be off the fucking air.

Keeping the Public INFORMED should be its own reward, and the "Monetary Value" of a news program should be measured by how much people believe that you are trustworthy. Newsrooms should operate AT A LOSS in the country.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:46 PM

122. It's always about the money.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:49 PM

4. the current administration prefers to forget about this and move.....forward, thanks nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:50 PM

6. Yes - One Of The Worst Failures Of The Obama Administration

eom

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:49 PM

5. And Americans still scratch their heads wondering

Why we are hated by so many people on the other side of the planet? Or they just say, "They hate us for our freedoms."

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:52 PM

7. More Corporate Propaganda Fueled By The Minions Of The Ultra Wealthy

eom

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:14 AM

68. That line was such obvious utter reeking bullshit

How could anyone have swallowed "they hate us for our freedoms" ?

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:03 PM

102. An excellent novel on this subject is, "The Ugly American" written by....

Eugene Burdick and William Lederer in 1958. It was later made into a movie by the same name starring Marlon Brando.

Amazingly prophetic novel, and just as applicable to today as it was back then.





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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:54 PM

8. Yeah, yeah, rehash old stuff, but What About BENGHAZI!?!? ANSWER THAT!!!



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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:56 PM

9. Paul O'Neill: Iraq planning came before 9/11

By Dave Moniz and Peronet Despeignes, USA TODAY

CRAWFORD, Texas — Paul O'Neill, President Bush's Treasury secretary in the first two years of his presidency, says the Bush administration was planning to invade Iraq long before the Sept. 11 attacks and used questionable intelligence to justify the war.

In wide-ranging interviews with the CBS program 60 Minutes and Time magazine, O'Neill said Bush and a number of top advisers began planning to get rid of Saddam Hussein soon after the 2000 election. As early as January 2001, they began looking for ways to justify an invasion, O'Neill said.

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein is a bad person and that he needed to go," O'Neill told 60 Minutes. "From the very first instance, it was about Iraq. It was about what we can do to change this regime."

In the interviews, O'Neill was critical of Bush's leadership skills. He said Bush is too secretive and has saddled the economy with crippling long-term debt.

Bush fired O'Neill in December 2002 after clashing with the Treasury secretary over economic issues, including Bush's $1.7 trillion in tax cuts. O'Neill is the principal source for a new book about the Bush administration, The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House and the Education of Paul O'Neill by former Wall Street Journal reporter Ron Suskind.

CONTINUED...

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-01-11-oneill-iraq_x.htm

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Response to Octafish (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:49 PM

33. I'd love to have him as Sec of Treas today -- a straight shooter telling the truth.

But, like when Biden tells the truth, it's "embarrassing" and they become a subject of ridicule.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:56 PM

10. This is why some of us were ENRAGED by "Let's look forward".

Because it wasn't forward-looking, it was criminal excusing.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:47 AM

42. Some of us were ENRAGED. Not enough of us for what it cost us all.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:12 AM

48. THANK YOU

the excuses from the swooners were SICKENING

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:37 AM

76. Yup...

there is always time to look back

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:02 PM

12. Not hoax. FRAUD.

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Response to aquart (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:30 PM

20. Not fraud. TREASON.

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Response to hay rick (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:21 PM

117. Yes, treason. Both governments (UK and US) are guilty of treason.

And all other governments from the "coalition of the wilful criminals"

And every damn politician who voted for invasion.

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Response to aquart (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:43 PM

29. I was going to write exactly the same thing.

Hoax sounds almost playful. This was organized crime. Follow the money. It was all about maximizing profit opportunities for "the players".

In fact, lots of people made out handsomely with the extra trillion dollars we funneled through the Pentagon. But the oil thing didn't work out so well. No problem, there is always Iran.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:29 AM

37. The oil thing worked out just fine.

It worked out exactly like it was supposed to. Once we went into Iraq and took control of the oil there the American oil companies on whose behalf the war was fought suddenly had a lot less competition - and could charge whatever they wanted. Remember what happened to gas prices once we went in there? That was the whole idea.

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Response to Demobrat (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:38 AM

41. Good point. What I was referring to was

that the hope going into this thing was that we would essentially colonize Iraq and divide the Iraqi oil fields among the big oil players (BP, Shell, etc). As it turned out, Iraq didn't take so well to being colonized. I haven't really followed the outcome closely, and I'm sure these companies found ways to get their hands on a lot of that oil revenue anyway.

And in any case, we dropped the production, which allowed the oil companies to remain the most profitable corporations in the history of the world (while paying very little by way of US taxes to help fund the war machinery that makes it all possible for them.)

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Response to Demobrat (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:11 AM

59. Wasn't There A Meeting Held By Cheney With The Oil Companies Where They Supposedly Divided....

up Iraq for the oil companies? Didn't someone try to get the minutes of that meeting and Cheney used Executive Privilege to keep them private? What about PNAC and the justification for going in was a 'new Pearl Harbor'?

We watched this all unfold before our eyes. Some of us here were calling them out as it happened - but the hurt of 9/11 helped let many Americans look the other way. It seems all so obvious now - looking back.

How about the Patriot Act. Wasn't that all set and written ready to be enacted if we had some justification to enact it?

Missing money in Iraq. TSA and the hassle we all went through and are still going through at the airports.

I'm thinking this documentary is just one part - a big part - of connecting the dots. There are other documentaries that need to air that expose all these other things as well.

Yellow cake. Valerie Plame. Powell's speech at the UN.

If someone wrote a fictional novel based on all this - it all follows in line - perfectly. So perfectly - people wouldn't believe it - yet it happened right before our eyes and under our noses.

I sit back now and say - who was behind all this? what was the motive? money? oil? power? complete bringdown of the United States?

Is it still going on? Hmmmm..... Citizens United? Election rigging? The fiasco of what we call Congress now?

I wonder!!!!!!!
.............................. connect the dots people - connect the dots.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:06 PM

13. its funny...

We have seen this type of thing throughout history, yet no one wants to believe it about their own sacred cows. Talking about this stuff after the fact is kinda stupid.

How about watching what is going on right now ?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:08 PM

14. I'm going to go Godwin here...

But I don't give a shit.

Hitler wanted Poland, so he and his goons created "border incidents" as a justification for invading Poland, triggering WW2.

Cheney (Bush was just a willing patsy,) created the "Connection to 9-11/WMD/whatever" lies as thier justification to invade Iraq, and Cheney's old Halliburton cronies made out like bandits.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:19 PM

15. Is GITMO full ?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:20 PM

16. I thought everyone already knew this. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:21 PM

17. I will watch it.

But how many others will? We on DU know this already. Will this documentary reach people who do not watch Rachel?







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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:25 PM

19. New evidence my ass.

The nation has just been looking the other way, plain and simple. Just go ahead and arrest the fuckers or STFU.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:35 PM

23. Like there was ever any doubt?

How is it that I, an ordinary person in the middle of the country, knew perfectly well from the very get-go that there was absolutely no reason to go to war, and yet almost the entire Congress and huge parts of the nation were bamboozled? I like to think I'm smart, but I'm certainly not the Genius of the Western Hemisphere. I figured it out.

It just makes me furious that now almost everyone will be saying how shocked they are, just shocked to learn this. Well, all of you out there who are so shocked, get your heads out of your asses and pay attention to something but the Kardashians or American Idol or Dancing With the Stars or whatever else it is you think is so much more important.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:05 AM

45. Hillary Clinton was among the war mongerers, the hawks.

Was she really fooled? Did she choose to be fooled? If so, why?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:44 AM

87. Some very good questions.

However, I don't think asking members here those questions will yield much information and I would also doubt that anyone will ask Ms Clinton what her motives were. It's both disturbing and telling that very powerful people, on BOTH sides of the aisle, who either knew better or didn't and should have, joined in the beating of the war drums. Those that want to lay the blame solely at the feet of the Bush Junta, obviously weren't paying attention.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:19 AM

138. It was plain as day what was happening, as it happened.

The small collection of people who hold most of the nation's money decided they wanted to seize Iraq's oil, and the machinery of state, along with all of their various corporate tentacles, set about making it happen. US media turned into a round-the-clock invasion infomercial, and the politicians dutifully got in line.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:21 AM

64. Yep.

I was a Canadian stay at home mom pregnant with my 3rd, and was somewhat of a 'sheeple' (though not completely uninformed) until the point I heard the word, "Iraq" uttered in the same sentence as 9/11. I KNEW Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 (being Canadian, we had real news, thank goodness) and I instantly thought, "that FUCKER is going to lie and use 9/11 to go to war!" Turns out my entire family had the same thought (all conservatives by the way).

Honestly I didn't think anyone was going to go along with it, especially once the protests started up. Let's just say the 'whole Iraq thing' totally made the entire world look down in disgust with the US. I was never a huge fan of our Prime Minister at the time, but when he announced we would not join the US in Iraq like we had in Afghanistan, I let out a cheer. HE knew, as did a huge chunk of the rest of the world. And we all wondered how could the US government be so bamboozled?? I suppose the only answer is...they weren't. Which is definitely worse.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:51 AM

88. Right

When I first started hearing Bush, Cheney, et. al talk about going to war in Iraq starting in August 2002, I remember my first reaction as being:



Nothing said after that point changed my mind either. I had initially hoped that Powell, if anybody, would talk Bush down at the last moment but, no, he signed onto the neocon plans even though we now know that he had sincere doubts about the endeavor. When it finally appeared inevitable that it was going to happen no matter what, I began hoping that maybe I was wrong or that I had overlooked something because I lacked the intelligence reports that Bush, Cheney, et. al had. Turns out that, nope, I hadn't. No WMD and certainly no "threat" to the US or anybody outside of Iraq. Simple as that.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:55 PM

99. Bill Clinton was instrumental in other Dems believing there 'could' be WMDs.

He accessed intel over the years that no other Dem official could have seen.

The DC Dems trusting that unseen intel supported the possibility of WMDs didn't happen entirely in a vacuum.

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Response to blm (Reply #99)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:27 PM

149. In the run-up to the war I called the DC office of my representative,

and was given a load of horse manure about how he'd been given briefings that contained top secret information, and so of course he was voting to go to war on information I didn't have. Such crap!

For one thing, why in the world is it necessary to make that information secret? Secondly, everything that was actually out there was clearly a pack of lies. Scott Ritter kept on screaming to high heaven that there was nothing there. Not to mention we kept on being told that Saddam had kicked out the inspectors, which was totally false. Our government had pulled them out, in the face of absolutely no evidence of WMD, basically because if they let them stay and conclusively prove no WMDs it would be much harder to perpetuate the lie.

In any case, the information about no WMDs was completely and totally out there, but of course all of the MSM went along with the lies of the Bushies, never allowing any dissenting voices to be heard, only putting on the air those who were enthusiastic about going to war, who said it would be a cake walk and cost a couple of million dollars, tops. Again, anyone and everyone who was remotely sentient knew this was all totally false, and I just want to scream in the ears of those who now, once again actually, are saying they didn't know, no one could have known, the intelligence was there and on and on. Fuckers.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:25 PM

128. I always wonder about this too.

I knew that there were no WMD. I knew that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. I knew that Saddam was not in league with al-Qaeda. I knew the war would not be over by Christmas. I knew it wouldn't pay for itself. I knew that the Sunni-Shiite rivalry would emerge and muddy the conflict. I knew that we wouldn't be greeted as liberators.

There was plenty of evidence for each of these points. If I, a random person in Columbus, Ohio, knew ALL these things, how is it even POSSIBLE that the federal government in Washington would not know ANY of them?

Everything I and my friends said about Iraq turned out to be true. Everything bush and cheney and the other crooks said about Iraq turned out to be false.

It's maddening.

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Response to mwb970 (Reply #128)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 10:04 PM

152. You are right - on all counts

Especially your closing sentence.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:25 PM

136. Exactly.

And who was it who recently said that everyone thought there were WMD, based on the available intel? Hans Blix didn't think so, and he was in a very good position to know. He became a non-person very quickly.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:36 PM

24. ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!

The war has been about money... I've read that last year they found a trillion dollar lithium deposit. A rare metal, very rare, that is used in phones, comps etc...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:39 PM

26. This is NEWS???

n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:39 PM

27. Wait, there's actually still debate? From the moment

They chose to testify in secret with no minutes being taken, I assumed that everyone either KNEW they lied or just stopped caring. There's NO debate left...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:41 PM

28. The GOP orchestrated all of it starting with 9/11

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #28)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:45 PM

30. Some folks don't cotton to that kind of talk 'round these here parts.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:57 AM

63. It all can be very painful so people would rather not even think of it. n/t

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #63)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:14 AM

74. Which is why it takes 50 yrs, 100 yrs, sometimes more time...

Last edited Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:52 AM - Edit history (1)

for the truth about such matters to see the light of day.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #74)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:13 AM

77. By then the principals are dead, so most of the truth is never learned.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #77)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:18 AM

78. Yep. Dueling history books...

What ever DID happen to the Maine????

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #78)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:33 AM

79. Case in point, most of the people who have first hand knowledge of the Kennedy assassination

will be dead in the next 5-10 years. Half of them are dead now.

Once that happens, the only hope of getting any more of the truth exposed is:

1) Secret documents emerging

2) Hearsay reported by people who feel more freedom to talk after others have died.

So even though it has been 10 years, I'm glad that MSNBC is pushing the Iraq war stuff while people are still alive to to be held accountable. And the damndest thing about the Iraq war is that they did almost all of that in plain sight. Then they came back later and said, "how could we have known none of the premises were true? We all got suckered."

As Maddow will point out, we didn't all get suckered. Millions of us froze our butts off protesting this in February, a month before the invasion started. And I vividly remember that day. The various speakers addressed every one of the Bush claims, and pointed out the body of evidence already openly available, showing that those claims were all bogus.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:23 PM

96. That was an amazing day in February.

So, so many people of all stripes pouring out of Grand Central, flooding 3rd avenue. The cross streets to 2nd avenue were closed and we snuck through the barricades (with Morgan Freeman) somewhere in the 70's. 2nd Ave was a literal sea of people. My first protest since the 60's and my daughter's first at age 11.

Too bad it was ignored by the press and pols. We were right. They lied, and I for one will not forget.



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Response to kohodog (Reply #96)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:41 AM

146. I arrived by bus at Port Authority. The police presence was at every corner, making

me walk quite a circuitous route to the protest.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #78)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:39 AM

145. At least the Maine explosion was investigated!

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #77)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:07 PM

95. "History. We don't know. We'll all be dead."

Asked by Woodward how history would judge the war, Bush replied:
"History. We don't know. We'll all be dead."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17347-2004Apr16.html

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:46 PM

31. HUGE K & R !!!


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:54 PM

34. They wanted control of the flow of the oil

None of this is anything new. There were hundreds of people here pointing out the lies as cheny and bush we spewing them. You do go back through the archives and read what DU members were saying at the time, they were spot on.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:02 AM

35. People calling for their arrest

Need to keep in mind what that would then mean for President Obama when his second term is up. I just dont think that would be a good precedent and would put all future democratic presidents at risk of trial and imprisonment on trumped up charges at the end of their terms. Remember we are talking about a very petty vindictive republican party.

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Response to Livluvgrow (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:28 PM

98. I totally disagree

Should we have turned our back and ignored the Holocaust? We are talking about war crimes, not speeding tickets. If Obama's drone policy is deemed to be a war crime, so be it. Over 100,000 (and that figure is probably light), for what?

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Response to kohodog (Reply #98)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:04 PM

103. guess

it wouldn't bother you to see Obama go to jail after his terms because that is exactly what the repubs would do. Do they deserve to go to jail with out a doubt yes, but if that precedent is started every president from here on out especially dems would be locked up for some trumped up charges.

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Response to Livluvgrow (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:25 PM

119. Maybe it will teach ALL feature Presidents and Prime Ministers to think twice before condemning

millions of innocent civilians to death as "collateral damage" and "price to do politics", just so they can play their sick power grabbing games.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:06 AM

36. Bill Clinton is not innocent in the ravaging of Iraq.

let us not be rewriters of history like the repugnicants.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:42 AM

147. Uhh...Who was President in 2001, 2002, 2003, etc.?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #147)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 10:21 AM

148. during the Clinton admin. killing Iraqi's 'was an instrument of our policy'.

Amy Goodman:

... many say that, although president Bush led this invasion, that president Clinton laid the groundwork with the sanctions and with the previous bombing of Iraq. You were president Clinton’s U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations.... the U.N. sanctions, for example ... led to the deaths of more than a half a million children, not to mention more than a million Iraqis.

Governor Richardson:

Well, I stand behind the sanctions. I believe that they successfully contained Saddam Hussein. I believe that the sanctions were an instrument of our policy.

---

how soon you forget. No wonder the U.S. doesn't have universal health care and things much less rich countries have. they can't remember past a certain time frame and especially can't remember when it is their own party dude doing the bombin' an the killin'.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:31 AM

38. What Has Always Galled Me Is Bush's Claim

After he started the Iraq war that "Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in". He made it on at least two occasions. Hans Blix and the UN inspectors had been there for months and were kicked out by Bush so he could start the war. As the UN inspectors reported by to the UN, Iraq had no WMD and had no WMD program that could lead to WMD. Why Bush had to say this is because the war authorization was specific to UN WMD inspection teams to have unlimited access, which they did after a brief pushback regarding Saddam's private castles. The war Bush fought is not the war Congress authorized. That should have been an impeachable offense right there.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:55 AM

90. I remember that

I thought that having the inspectors in there and not finding anything would make a difference. Nope. They were bound and determined to get their war on, damn the torpedoes!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:50 AM

43. The Crime That Will Keep On Costing

I blame Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield/Wolfowitz/ etc, that whole bunch and just as much big media for gross enabling with prejudice and pom poms.

And now - The R's drone on about Obama and the debt when they know it's the bogus war expense and tax cuts for their wealthy buddies/donors. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out witch tells us how dumb most of the tea party is.

Now if only people like Chuck Todd and David Gregory would do their jobs instead of licking the R's boots so the people that are trying to run the US in the ground won't cut off their access.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #43)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:35 AM

85. They are doing their jobs. If they did OUR job, they would not be on the air.

People like Greg Palast eg, is unable to provide the American with his investigative news material. And Ashley Banfield who dared to tell the truth just about what she actually saw in Afghanistan after our bombs fell on those people, was taken off the air. Even people like Christiane Amanpour was prevented from reporting the truth on CNN at the time, or even questioning the 'reporting' and was trashed with impunity on Fox the main State Propaganda channel.

In 'Capitalism A Love Story' after Congress was forced back to revote on the Corporate Welfare Bailout against the will of the people, MM asked Marcy Kaptur, 'would you call what happened there a Coup D'Etat'? She answered 'yes'.

As Thomas Jefferson said about Big Corporations and Banks 'they are more of a threat to a nation than a standing army' once they gain the kind of power they obviously have gained over this country.

And when the people finally rose up in the of OWS, they were crushed and we have people even on this democratic board, who have no problem with that.

We get the government, and the media, we deserve. Maybe one day the people will wake up and stop supporting their own oppression, but so far Bush/Cheney and the rest of the Wall Street and War Criminals, have nothing to worry about.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:07 AM

47. Of all involved, I think Bush is probably one of the least culpable

It's clear that Chenney, Rumsfeld and the neo-con cabal worked very carefully and effectively to rope as many patsies in as they could. Powell, Rice, Bush and congress were given their scripts and they followed them.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:14 AM

49. The Statute of Limitations for Murder is Never

 

and the same for war crimes. Maybe after the airing of this documentary, some attorney general in one of our states will step forward and file.

http://www.prosecutegeorgebush.com

Regardless of the horrendous damage Bush has inflicted upon Iraq and this country, George W. Bush is planning to walk away from the greatest crime ever committed by an American President. He took this country to war under false pretenses. He lied to the Congress and the rest of the American people in order to start his war with Iraq. How can we let this happen? Is there anything we can do about it? Vincent Bugliosi has come up with a remarkable solution in his latest book, The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder. After reading the book it becomes obvious that impeachment, even if it was "on the table," was not justice.

Source: http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/143772/index.php

"Bugliosi meticulously lays out a case against George W. Bush for purposefully deceiving the United States into war, thereby causing over 4,000 U.S. soldier deaths and 100,000-plus civilian Iraqi deaths and counting." "Bugliosi is in a good position as a former prosecutor to ask--on behalf of millions of people--why should someone who accidentally kills a person in a liquor store holdup be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, yet someone who creates death and destruction on an unimaginable scale sail off into the sunset and have a library named after them? Is U.S. law based on justice, or whim?"

From the The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder website:

"A searing indictment of the President and his administration, The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder also outlines a legally credible pathway to holding our highest government officials accountable for their actions, thereby creating a framework for future occupants of the oval office." Any state attorney, and many county-level district attorneys, can prosecute George W. Bush for murder and conspiracy to commit murder. To establish jurisdiction for murder, a U.S. soldier who died in Iraq would have to be from that state, or from that local county. And every U.S. state has lost at least one resident to the war in Iraq. We couldn't do anything about George Bush while he was in office. But now some brave prosecutor in this country, armed with the information in Mr. Bugliosi's book, can bring this war-criminal to trial.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:28 AM

52. Looks like time for smores around the campfire!

or popcorn?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:44 AM

53. will frogs ever march?

is the rule of law just for us plebes?

k/r

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:47 AM

54. Who fucking needs new evidence? This shit was evident from day one.

New evidence?! Jesus Fucking Christ. Did they also dig up new evidence indicating that north is polar opposite to south?

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:08 AM

58. Yep. It was infuriating to watch. A slow-motion disaster.

It was plain as day-- especially if you read any foreign media-- that the administration's claims were bogus. But no one with a microphone in the US would acknowledge that obvious fact, or even ask some very obvious, logical questions.

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Response to Marr (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:03 PM

134. Can I be so cynical to think the media encouraged us to go to war

because it would be good for TV ratings etc.?

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:25 AM

75. I'm thinking the same thing

I remember hearing about the Rumsfeld thing back before the invasion or shortly afterward, for example. There were also reports by intelligence insiders saying that the White House was forcing them to create false intelligence, and there were plenty of other reports indicating the rationale for going to war was based entirely on lies.

Just like then, however, this "new evidence" isn't going to do anything to bring the Bush junta to justice.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:59 AM

55. musical interlude kick

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:08 AM

57. K&R!

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:13 AM

60. Tommy Franks indeed. Man, he sure skeedaddled outta there in a hurry.

He freakin' disappeared as soon as his time was up. Gee, Tommy, why didn't you stick around for all the glory?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:15 AM

61. It's unbelievable how Bush and his cronies could do all this shit

 

Even worse, they managed to escape facing justice. What a sad world we live in these days, sigh.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:29 AM

65. "Iraq on the Record", 237 WMD lies by Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and Powell

 

This report contains 237 claims for specific misleading statements made by:

* Colin Powell
* Donald Rumsfeld
* Condoleezza Rice
* George W. Bush
* Dick Cheney

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_on_the_Record_Report

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:43 AM

66. I used to keep track of every lie and had a whole file on them right from the start.

This MoJo timeline was great: http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline

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Response to polly7 (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:56 PM

110. I think one of the most significant facts that often gets lost is on 2/24/2001...

When Colin Powell said Iraq had no WMD capabilities.
I still have no respect for him not for changing his tune, but for jumping in with that crowd to begin with. Before he did, Bush had no foreign policy credibility and even the MSM were saying that he'd never win like that.
As far as I can remember, it was a rarity to have a cabinet selection announced so early and so many people are oddly in awe of Powell.
I don't respect him, but he's not stupid and I'm sure he knew what the republicans were like. So why did he willingly go along?

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Response to rwsanders (Reply #110)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:25 AM

141. I know, that bothered me a lot.

He'd said on that trip to Egypt Hussein "has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors." I don't know what happened to make him do a complete 180 but, imo, his presentation sealed the deal of approval for many people. I hadn't known about his involvement in My Lai and Iran/Contra and that he'd been considered a 'consummate team player' all along. Just another blood-thirsty warmonger to me now, imo.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:08 AM

67. Occultist Republican cabal deceives America

How twisted is that?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:35 AM

69. Uh, yeah, we know...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:41 AM

70. Shifting War Rationals

That's what always got me. Once the war commenced, the GWB Administration kept coming up with NEW REASONS to justify the war.

The reason for going to war should be absolute and unchangeable!

-90% Jimmy

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:01 AM

72. And, many of us here say "No shit, Sherlock."

I am looking forward to this, but I don't expect many new revelations. Anybody who saw Colin Powell holding up cartoons as "proof" that Iraq had "mobile weapons labs" already knew this war was a huge scam. But, many thanks to Rachel for telling it. Far too many people still don't get it, and hopefully, this will wake up at least some of them.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:03 AM

73. Remember when they said; "We make our own reality" ?

That's what they did.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:56 AM

82. "A Hoax"? Hitler's diaries were a hoax. This was a war crime. Too big to bust.

The American form of government is simply incapable of holding its top officials accountable. Even Nixon was allowed to walk.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:34 AM

84. Who here is surprised at this?


The left was correct again. We called it. Historians, provided there are any, are going to look back at this age as the time when the political right was consistently wrong, and in the costliest ways possible. I mean, Global Warming, the Iraq and Afghani wars, sex education, monetary and fiscal policy, the political Right has been obstinately wrong on all of those and more. If we survive, they're going to go down as history's greatest and most avaricious idiots.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:35 AM

86. What is it about the American character

that we have fallen for this scam again and again through our history? (Free press, my a**)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:29 AM

91. It's pretty obvious that he scammed us. It was obvious at the time.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:05 PM

94. They are just little war criminals ...no big deal. Bersides ...we're too busy bustin crack dealers.

The international law means nothing. There is no law for Bush, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz, Powell, ect. US Justice is a joke.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:02 PM

101. send that to mccain and stick it up his ass where the sun don't shine.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:16 PM

104. Sorry MSNBC, but Richard Clarke called this years and years ago...

Nothing new here.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:19 PM

105. And why exactly are the war criminals not being prosecuted?

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:26 PM

106. nice to have confirmation of what many of us already knew..

but what will be done about it? two things; jack, and shit.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:45 PM

108. I hope she is dead on right.

I am concerned about the possibility that the right will try to Dan Rather Rachel.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:51 PM

109. I really cannot stand Michael Isikoff. He tore after Clinton more.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:57 PM

111. I thought that anyone with even half a brain

knew that this war was based on lies. I know I did not believe them from the get-go.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:04 PM

112. Let's not forget

It was MSNBC that fired Phil Donahue who was the only person with an hour talk show that was seriously evaluating the reasons for and against going to war with Iran in response to a terror problem that was based in Afghanistan. (There was little or no time to stop the involvement in Afghanistan--that was a done deal. There was a blood lust. But Iran was overreach and should have been stopped.)

MSNBC, the liberal network, jumped ship and hopped on the band wagon.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:08 PM

113. Everybody w/ a brain knew it was a hoax

1) Dick Cheney had maps of Iraqi oil fields on his desk in Feb. and March 2001 as he was
meeting w/ his "energy task force."

He obtained one Pentagon document, dated March 5, 2001, and entitled "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield contracts," which includes a map of potential areas for exploration.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-592330.html

2) The White House Iraq Group and the Pentagon's "Office of Special Plans" worked
24/7 to find reason to have a war w/Iraq

3) The weapons inspectors found nothing and said as much but bush/Cheney/Rummy had them removed from
Iraq even after Saddam had told them they could go anyplace and at anytime.

4) Powell's UN anthrax act .... even after we knew the capital hill anthrax came from Ft. Detrick, MD

5) In Dec. 2000 bush, Cheney, & Rummy had a lets plan a stimulated war w/ Iraq meeting in the Pentagon

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:18 PM

114. This is America: the real, big criminals are never punished

Politicians, bankers, CEOs.

They never face the consequences of their actions. Never.

They won't now, either. The only good this does is provide a retrospective look that millions of Americans knew before the invasion as well. Knew about Zinni, knew about Wilkerson, knew about issues from a variety of sources that were ignored.

It won't serve as a lesson because this has happened over and over again. I wish I were just being a pessimist, but recent history would put the odds in my favor.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:00 PM

116. The question I have is

Who is going to go after Bush Cheney? Nancy Pelosi said it was off the table.

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #116)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:32 PM

121. Of course it is! Gotta have that damn powder dry, you know!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:28 PM

120. The fuckers lied. And assorted other fools and liars went along with them.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:19 PM

126. How can we help get this message into the corp-media? nm

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:23 PM

127. Every intelligent person knew it was a scam

including Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, yet...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:38 PM

129. We'll never get over this. They weren't punished. They belong in prison.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:19 PM

131. Never forget...




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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:28 PM

132. All I know is that if a Dem doesn't win in 2016.

We're gonna a rampage into Iran, on all new lies etc... The Repubs don't know any better.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:21 PM

135. It really is a shame

That the drone program wasn't as mature back then as it is now, seems like it is perfectly fine to target rogue leaders and those you classify as enemies with a targeted drone assasination then to go through the senseless boots on the ground war that ultimately kills hundreds of thousands of people.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:01 PM

137. k & r! nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:24 AM

139. The MSM are embarassed

I think they know full well they dropped the ball, but the profits from pumping up a war, and the huge ratings that came with that, were just too big to resist.

So now, they can't go back. They have too much arrogance to admit they didn't do due diligence. that's why when someone like Julian Assange comes out at reveals war crimes in Iraq etc.. their only response is to smear. They are scared to death of looking like fools in front of the whole nation. They are already fools in the minds of those of us who know but they will fight to the end to "protect" their image as serious news outlets to the majority sheeple.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:28 AM

140. Kick, Rec. n/t.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:28 AM

142. Can I just mention one more thing that shouldn't slip down the memory hole.

False Flag Anthrax Attack.

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Response to Ganja Ninja (Reply #142)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:31 AM

144. Yes, and with actual victims. WHO are the murderous terrorists, again?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:29 AM

143. Be ready. Once people begin to question MOTIVE, they will question OPPORTUNITY. THEN? MEANS:



9/11/01.

BE PREPARED.

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Response to kpete (Original post)


Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 10:03 PM

151. Disappointed they didn't include Bush's "joke" at the Press Dinner....

Most despicable moment in recent history involving the cowardly cringers in the media.

You know, when he looked under the table cloth, etc wondering "where WERE those WMD's???" and they sat there and laughed and laughed.

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