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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:54 PM

Maddow: MSNBC Special on Iraq WMD Will "Upset" Many



Rachel Maddow Explores Long Buried Claims of Intel Fraud by gw
Rachel Maddow is looking to ruffle feathers, going where Obama or Congress wouldn't dare to tread, in publicizing the claims of the Bush Iraq Team which launched a long and costly war.

Because of a ten year mainstream media whitewash, it's been generally accepted that "mistakes" justified a war that resulted in over 4,800 US troop deaths. But this week, MSNBC will rock the boat, suggesting false pretenses took us to war, meaning the nation should start debating consequences. Rachel Maddow is teasing "many people will be upset" when the documentary Hubris: The Selling of The Iraq War airs on Monday Feb. 18.

If proven deliberate, the Iraq WMD intel debacle could constitute domestic and international war crimes. Someone must have had a long fight behind the scenes to get this controversy on the air because most of the facts have been readily available for years through indie media, books, articles (and even in drips and drabs on MSNBC).

Perhaps most striking is the way most media has ignored Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, a top level Bush administration insider who has offered to testify directly against Dick Cheney and others. So what actionable allegations will Maddow present?

MORE...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Maddow-MSNBC-Special-on-I-by-Gustav-Wynn-130216-72.html

162 replies, 19025 views

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Arrow 162 replies Author Time Post
Reply Maddow: MSNBC Special on Iraq WMD Will "Upset" Many (Original post)
Purveyor Feb 2013 OP
annabanana Feb 2013 #1
Vincardog Feb 2013 #2
calimary Feb 2013 #19
Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2013 #3
timdog44 Feb 2013 #7
ReRe Feb 2013 #32
timdog44 Feb 2013 #35
ReRe Feb 2013 #41
upi402 Feb 2013 #82
ReRe Feb 2013 #125
classof56 Feb 2013 #132
ReRe Feb 2013 #149
Frustratedlady Feb 2013 #157
classof56 Feb 2013 #160
Frustratedlady Feb 2013 #162
former9thward Feb 2013 #137
ReRe Feb 2013 #148
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #115
Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2013 #49
ThomThom Feb 2013 #93
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #116
Jenoch Feb 2013 #75
IthinkThereforeIAM Feb 2013 #120
ThomThom Feb 2013 #139
newfie11 Feb 2013 #159
Orrex Feb 2013 #94
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #122
deminks Feb 2013 #4
sweetNsassy Feb 2013 #8
calimary Feb 2013 #13
sweetNsassy Feb 2013 #20
ReRe Feb 2013 #34
calimary Feb 2013 #54
Lugnut Feb 2013 #78
KoKo Feb 2013 #98
Samantha Feb 2013 #66
bluestateguy Feb 2013 #80
Amerigus Feb 2013 #108
2naSalit Feb 2013 #156
countmyvote4real Feb 2013 #89
jollyreaper2112 Feb 2013 #99
Archae Feb 2013 #5
busterbrown Feb 2013 #6
Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #16
Whisp Feb 2013 #23
demwing Feb 2013 #69
Whisp Feb 2013 #73
cartach Feb 2013 #105
Kahuna Feb 2013 #126
oldbanjo Feb 2013 #25
Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #29
stevenleser Feb 2013 #21
RobertEarl Feb 2013 #50
stevenleser Feb 2013 #53
RobertEarl Feb 2013 #57
stevenleser Feb 2013 #60
RobertEarl Feb 2013 #62
stevenleser Feb 2013 #65
RobertEarl Feb 2013 #67
idwiyo Feb 2013 #87
KoKo Feb 2013 #100
brush Feb 2013 #92
idwiyo Feb 2013 #70
stevenleser Feb 2013 #72
idwiyo Feb 2013 #86
Amerigus Feb 2013 #130
Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2013 #141
KoKo Feb 2013 #102
arikara Feb 2013 #119
vanbean Feb 2013 #48
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #79
Amerigus Feb 2013 #10
calimary Feb 2013 #17
johnnyreb Feb 2013 #33
Amerigus Feb 2013 #111
johnnyreb Feb 2013 #136
Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2013 #142
Amerigus Feb 2013 #145
ReRe Feb 2013 #37
tavernier Feb 2013 #96
eppur_se_muova Feb 2013 #26
Harry Monroe Feb 2013 #43
spanone Feb 2013 #9
sheshe2 Feb 2013 #11
chervilant Feb 2013 #106
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #12
Purveyor Feb 2013 #15
DavidDvorkin Feb 2013 #18
aptal Feb 2013 #28
Brother Buzz Feb 2013 #14
KoKo Feb 2013 #103
Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #22
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #40
Hissyspit Feb 2013 #46
Samantha Feb 2013 #68
Amerigus Feb 2013 #112
Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #114
sibelian Feb 2013 #24
maindawg Feb 2013 #27
Whisp Feb 2013 #30
ReRe Feb 2013 #31
Politicalboi Feb 2013 #36
truth2power Feb 2013 #101
OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #121
rdharma Feb 2013 #38
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #39
RobertEarl Feb 2013 #47
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #58
RobertEarl Feb 2013 #61
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #63
RobertEarl Feb 2013 #64
Martin Eden Feb 2013 #134
WillyT Feb 2013 #42
TomClash Feb 2013 #44
libdude Feb 2013 #45
derby378 Feb 2013 #51
defacto7 Feb 2013 #52
Diclotican Feb 2013 #55
ellie Feb 2013 #56
LancetChick Feb 2013 #59
Timbuk3 Feb 2013 #71
Left Coast2020 Feb 2013 #74
JEB Feb 2013 #76
FleetwoodMac Feb 2013 #77
upi402 Feb 2013 #81
FleetwoodMac Feb 2013 #88
DallasNE Feb 2013 #83
just1voice Feb 2013 #84
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #85
John2 Feb 2013 #90
4dsc Feb 2013 #91
cstanleytech Feb 2013 #95
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #117
idwiyo Feb 2013 #138
cstanleytech Feb 2013 #151
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #152
cstanleytech Feb 2013 #153
Amerigus Feb 2013 #154
Dustlawyer Feb 2013 #97
global1 Feb 2013 #104
cstanleytech Feb 2013 #109
TomCADem Feb 2013 #107
TeamPooka Feb 2013 #110
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #113
OneMoreDemocrat Feb 2013 #118
Amerigus Feb 2013 #123
lexw Feb 2013 #124
dixiegrrrrl Feb 2013 #127
Cleita Feb 2013 #128
DissidentVoice Feb 2013 #129
lovuian Feb 2013 #131
snagglepuss Feb 2013 #133
gateley Feb 2013 #135
RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #140
Amerigus Feb 2013 #143
RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #147
DearHeart Feb 2013 #144
RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #146
DearHeart Feb 2013 #150
Amerigus Feb 2013 #155
laureloak Feb 2013 #158
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #161

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:56 PM

1. Well-l-l. . . He IS guilty of War Crimes . .so why not?

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Response to annabanana (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:04 PM

2. Not just gW

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Response to annabanana (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:11 PM

19. Totally! Card-carrying and with bells on.

cheney - and all his little neoCON friends should be in leg irons.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:12 PM

3. It is now safe to round up Bush and Cheney to prosecute them

and then jail them

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:44 PM

7. Could be why

the Bush family bought all that property in South America where extradition is not a part of the legal system.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:00 PM

32. Did they really do that? n/t

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:17 PM

41. Oh, yeah...

...they make their future plans, just in case. It seems like I remembered this, but when you said it, the Senior moment hit. Thanks.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:49 AM

82. That's ugly

They've bought hundreds of thousands of acres - looks like even that weasel Neil Bush was involved.

And it was thought to be purchased ahead of expected war crimes charges.

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Response to upi402 (Reply #82)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:56 PM

125. You do remember...

...that the Bush Administration would not sign on to the ICC (International Criminal Court). I think he also made some flippant comment about not having to abide by International Law. Didn't he also say, derogatorially that the Constitution was nothing but a "piece of paper"? GWs years in the WH were such a nightmare to me. How I lived through that, I will never know.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #125)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:46 PM

132. Yep, I do remember all the above.

Had it not been for Jacob Weisberg's Bushisms posted on Slate and also on daily calendars I kept myself supplied with, I'm not sure I'd have lived through those eight years with my sanity intact. Can't wait for Rachel's program tomorrow. Keeping the faith that the truth might set us free. Or at least land Bush and his evil minions in jail!

I know--dream on. Or perhaps that should be nightmare on. It just doesn't seem to end!

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Response to classof56 (Reply #132)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:18 PM

149. Ditto all you said...

Not feeling well, must turn in...

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Response to classof56 (Reply #132)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:58 PM

157. DU is what helped me keep my sanity intact.

Without DU, I probably wouldn't even be here, as a stroke or heart attack would have taken me out. DU members let me know I wasn't alone and I wasn't wrong.

BTW, I am also from the Class of 56! Great time to grow up.



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Response to Frustratedlady (Reply #157)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 05:02 PM

160. Well, hello, fellow Class of 56er!

Thanks for being here on DU! The 50s did seem like a more peaceful and uncomplicated time to grow up, huh? I'd have probably liked things better if my family hadn't been so danged poor, but hey--we got by! No longer that poor, but not sure where I'd be emotionally if I hadn't found DU when I did. One thing I know--money is not everything! There are times I almost feel sorry for those who think it is.

Cheers!

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Response to classof56 (Reply #160)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 10:15 PM

162. Cheers back atcha!

I don't remember social standing meaning that much back then. We had just finished WWII and were on a fun ride through the 1950s with all kinds of revolutionary changes in the way we lived and all the new concepts that came out with new inventions, bright colors (after many years of dull shades for clothes, housepaint, cars, etc.) and a big relief that rations were a fading part of memory. I babysat for a quarter/hour, filled the gas tank with gas at a quarter/gallon and bought my school clothes by detasseling corn each summer.

I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat (if we had air conditioning).

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Response to ReRe (Reply #125)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:18 PM

137. The Obama administration has not signed on to the ICC either.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #137)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:14 PM

148. Looks pretty fishy to me.

Both when GWB did it and now that PO has done it. Not being a signator to the International Criminal Court looks to me like an admittance to guilt in the breaking of International Law. Do you suppose PO knows nothing about this?

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Response to ReRe (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:43 PM

115. Yes. Paraguay, even.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:53 PM

49. Junior is lying low right now

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:34 AM

93. yes painting his toes

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Response to ThomThom (Reply #93)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:44 PM

116. Painting himself while cleansing is psychologically interesting to me.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:12 AM

75. The problem with your theory

is that Paraguay apparently does have an extradition treaty with the U.S.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:14 PM

120. Paraguay changed their extradition laws...


... after the Bush family purchase the land (lots of water rights go with the land purchased) and a government not endeared to the Bush family cause(s) came to power. But it is still there, Jenna Bush was down there, "researching a book", she presumably wrote, and carrying further water for the Bush Crime Cabal, ie... meetings.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:46 PM

139. It's all about the water

property sitting on the largest aquifer in the world

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Response to ThomThom (Reply #139)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 04:02 PM

159. That is my thought also nt

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:56 AM

94. Huh. I figured it was so Dubya could be closer to his cocaine supply.

Two birds w/ one stone, I guess.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:35 PM

122. Not extradition, we have it with them since 2001. Most likely water rights.

 

While we are gnashing our teeth and worrying about oil and climate change, problems that exist right now, the people that matter are setting up for the next big thing, fresh water.

This is how it works, has always worked. They were preparing for the inevitable collapse of the world's oil supply 50 years ago. They have known about and been preparing climate change for forty years. Overpopulation for 50. Soil depletion since the 40s, and so on.

Fresh water, through overuse and pollution, is going to make the cheap energy problems of today seem like the "good old days" in the next 50 - 100 years and they're already getting in place to take maximum advantage of that crisis as it develops.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:16 PM

4. Most of us on this board have spent years documenting the lies and crimes of the BFEE.

I am trying really hard not to be underwhelmed. I love Rachel, but this is so long overdue. I will definitely be watching.

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Response to deminks (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:48 PM

8. +1

 

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Response to sweetNsassy (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:06 PM

13. Welcome to DU, sweetNsassy!

Glad you're here! I cannot wait for this! It's gonna be old news to many of us who tried like hell to fight this war, stop it before it started, stop it after it started, stop it any way we could. Even just trying to be heard!

But I'm glad it's getting out there in the open! I hope it rocks the boat a LOT!

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Response to calimary (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:13 PM

20. Thank you, calimary!

 

Appreciate the welcome!

This is such old news though, I have a really hard time getting excited about it. It's been in the open and nothing came of it....so I'm a little underwhelmed with it all, but glad it's rising it's head again.

Thanks again!

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Response to calimary (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:04 PM

34. Have you ever noticed...

... how the "naysayers" always turn out to be right in the end?

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Response to ReRe (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:08 PM

54. Yeah, no kidding.

I remember one post I made here awhile ago - along the lines of "I'm sick of being right" - and not being listened to. This whole site here, DU, is full of people who could easily make that statement. SO MANY of us were correct about bush/cheney, the war, Saddam, EVERYTHING. We DU "naysayers" have proven more reliable than a brand new compass.

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Response to calimary (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:03 AM

78. + infinity! n/t

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Response to calimary (Reply #54)


Response to deminks (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:55 PM

66. You are so right

There is probably a lot of documentation in the DU Archives that won't be in the MSNBC special. DU was all over that for a long time....

Sam

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Response to deminks (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:15 AM

80. I think you're right

It could just be a compilation of stuff we have already known for 11 years.

But, who knows? Maybe Rachel found something new.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #80)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:39 PM

108. What's new is that this is getting onto TV...

...for the first time. Maddow has announced that many new whistleblowers are stepping forward and new documents will be shown as well.

As intel agency officials retire, they may be more inclined to speak. As statutes of limitations expire, people get bolder. As more voices join the chorus, a critical mass can be reached to turn the tides.

We also have new waves of elected officials who are not tied down by baggage. Anyone who voted for the Iraq war in 2002 is compromised because they either fell for Bush's lies like suckers, or they actually still believe the lies! Remember this was a major issue in the 2008 primaries and before. Hillary came out in 2006 with her "If I knew then what I know now" excuse.

All these things contribute.

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Response to Amerigus (Reply #108)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 02:52 PM

156. That's what I think too

Not that a vast majority of the citizenry has already figured this out, it's that it is getting on a major news entity that is often not so willing to rick the boat.

I wonder how many politicos will actually be embarrassed or feel the pain when this gets aired and whether there will be some kind of technical glitch that makes it impossible for many to see...?

And i wonder if the POTUS is going to do anything different than he already is willing to do about this shit. Then, too, one has to wonder if he has a gun to his head over what he actually does about anything in this issue.

Can't wait to see it and see if there's anything revealed that serves as a catalyst for actual change in paradigm here.

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Response to deminks (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:05 AM

89. And we were there in the streets in protest from the get go.

Sadly, all that will come of this is some crying over spoiled milk.

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Response to deminks (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:49 AM

99. It's news to most people

There was not much new to me in Fahrenheit 911 but put together it was overwhelming to me, someone who was paying attention. To those who hadn't been it made their heads explode. This is all true? Surely he's making shit up! No?! It's all fact?! Bush, that motherfucker! And what an ugly mother to fuck.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:16 PM

5. Cheney's reaction to this show will be this...

To quote him exactly:

"So?"

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Response to Archae (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:25 PM

6. You forgot the...

“look, the whole european commonwealth plus many more countries thought he had weapons” bullshit!

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:09 PM

16. They'll also quote Bill Clinton and Al Gore...

But fail to mention Clinton never went to war with Iraq (though he did do aerial assaults).

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:25 PM

23. and sanctions that really hurt the Iraqi population.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/170/41910.html

AMY GOODMAN: President Clinton, UN figures show that up to 5,000 children a month die in Iraq because of the sanctions against Iraq.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: (Overlap) That's not true. That's not true. And that's not what they show. Let me just tell you something. ....

---

AMY GOODMAN: The past two UN heads of the program in Iraq have quit, calling the US policy ... US/UN policy, genocidal. What is your response to that?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: They're wrong! They think that we should reward ... Saddam Hussein says, I'm going to starve my kids unless you let me buy nuclear weapons, chemical weapons and biological weapons.

---

Bill Clinton was very much into the Bush idea of how Iraq should be treated. I know people get mad at me for saying that, but Bush 1 started with Gulf War, Clinton weakened that nation with sanctions then Jr. came in for the kill. Clinton was part of this, so get mad. I don't care, it's the damn truth right in front of your eyes. Clinton was part of the culling of Iraq. And I don't want his wife any where Near a position to do that to another country.


===
More importantly, the entire Oil-for-Food program is fundamentally flawed. It forces Baghdad to purchase all of its goods outside of Iraq, thus doing nothing to rebuild and "develop" its shattered economy and infrastructure. As a result, despite more Oil-for-Food goods entering the country than ever before, massive unemployment and poverty persist. Couple this with the fact that Iraq gets zero investment to repair infrastructure, and you have all the ingredients for an indefinite, manufactured humanitarian crisis. Over 20% of children remain chronically malnourished. And epidemics of water-borne diseases continue.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:13 PM

69. Let me get this straight...Clinton didn't go to war with Iraq

so therefore, the Iraq war is Clinton's fault?

Is that really the argument you are making?

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Response to demwing (Reply #69)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:54 PM

73. what?

can you ask that again because I don't understand.

Killing by sanctions isn't really called war then, lots of kids died because of those sanctions but if you don't want to call it war, call it whate4ver you like, call it Padisysyallassi, but Iraqi citisens suffered greatly under Clinton.

Clinton was part of it all, is it his fault Bush Jr was a mass murdering giggling idiot that took it to the extreme? No, but Clinton had a part of killing Iraqis and weakening Iraq.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #73)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:24 AM

105. Maybe we should just call it murder

and be done with it. That should take care of the confusion with labels. And yes I agree all three were part of it all.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:57 PM

126. People forget that Hans Blitz(SP?) was on the ground in

Iraq looking for evidence of WMDs and didn't find any. Blitz was ordered out of Iraq so that jr. could get his invasion on. I doubt that Clinton or Gore would have proceeded with an invasion once the inspections failed to find any evidence of WMDs.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:36 PM

25. Everytime his girlfriend was mentioned he would bomb them.

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Response to oldbanjo (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:39 PM

29. He was waggin' the dog.

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:18 PM

21. If you think its bullshit, there are links. And it wasnt just the Europeans.

Ignoring facts that do not fit your narrative does not help your cause.

The fact that most politicians around the world thought Iraq had WMD doesnt change the fact that invading after UN Weapons inspectors were on the ground and reporting there were no weapons there means that Bush and his administration committed war crimes.

If your agenda is to blame Democrats, the facts might be a bit frustrating, but in terms of Bush and Cheney and the rest of that awful admin, they are guilty as hell. Period.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:56 PM

50. We are all guilty

Doesn't make it right. Doesn't allow for excuses that some of us weren't quite as bad as Bush.

No, not until we all see that we misuse our military power will there ever be true peace. I do understand that many never would want true peace, and they will continue to dredge up excuses. But they will all go to hell in due time, eh?

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #50)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:04 PM

53. Its all a matter of degrees.

I campaigned for Gore, I fought the election theft, I marched in peace marches in 2003 before the war and after. I did everything short of unlawful measures to stop the war. But I still payed taxes and I did not emigrate.

I believe though that only two organizations are truly guilty here and that is the Bush administration and the Blair administration. The latter makes me really sad because outside of the Iraq war, I really liked Tony Blair.

Bush was determined to go to war and nothing would have stopped him. He had a Republican House of Representatives that would not have impeached him nor would it have ever contemplated a Boland like amendment. But of course, we see with Reagan how much a Boland amendment means. It means nothing unless congress is willing to impeach the President over breaching it.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:19 PM

57. Excuses, everybody has one

The right wing democrats share in the deceit. Were it up to the left wing democrats, it would have been stopped. And had we had the support that all can now see should have been freely given, it could have been stopped.

We didn't stop it and so we share in the blame.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #57)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:24 PM

60. Your post makes no sense. There was no stopping the Iraq war once W was elected with a GOP House

Stopped how?

You honestly believe that without passage of the IWR, the Republican House of Representatives in 2002 or 2003 votes to impeach George W. Bush over going to war in Iraq?

Think about what you are saying because it makes no sense whatsoever.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #60)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:34 PM

62. No,

I get that you want to make excuses. But I quarter no excuses. Too many people died over the lies and ineptness of our leaders to stop the slaughter BEFORE it happened. Sorry, I ain't buying what you are selling.

Why don't you just accept that we were wrong and get on that bus? Why keep fighting to enforce what we all know was the wrong thing?

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #62)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:46 PM

65. You are just wrong and dont want to admit it. You have no argument. Again...

explain to me under what circumstances you see a Republican House of Representatives in 2002 or 2003 voting to impeach George W. Bush for invading Iraq even without an IWR.

And realize that is only the beginning. Republicans had control back of the senate in January of 2003 so you would have needed all Democrats and 18 Republican Senators to vote to convict.

Its fine to believe whatever you want to believe, but ultimately you have to give way to reality and facts. Tell me which Republicans in the House and Senate you think would have voted to impeach Bush for invading Iraq.

You can save yourself a lot of time and effort by just admitting this assertion of yours is a ridiculous one.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #65)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:59 PM

67. Impeachment

What the heck are you babbling about now? I never said anything about impeachment. I am saying it could have been stopped. Remember the votes?

What I am saying is that many right wing democrats, Clintons included, stepped aside as Bush lied and people died.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #67)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:13 AM

87. +1 the desire to whitewash is very strong in some people.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #67)


Response to RobertEarl (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:08 AM

92. I resent what you're saying

Most of us here on DU were against the Iraq war. We marched and protested against it. We were not wrong. Maybe you went along with the Bushies and the complicit media and therefore have the gall to write things like this:

"Why don't you just accept that we were wrong and get on that bus? Why keep fighting to enforce what we all know was the wrong thing?"

But don't try to pull us all into it. Many of us knew as we marched in Manhattan and Washington that the lies about WMD and all that crapola was wrong. We knew it then and we know it now that it was all about "blood for oil".

Rachel's piece will be a sad trip down memory lane for many of us. I'm glad she is doing it. She is truly emerging as our Murrow. And let's not forget Cenk Uygur who turned down the big contract with MSNBC rather than tone down his questioning of establishment figures with ties to all the Iraq War/Bush mess.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:21 PM

70. Saying that most of the politicians THOUGHT Saddam had WMDs reduces them to the level of door

knobs.
One had to be deaf and blind not to notice the incredible amount of bullshit that US and to some degree UK (Toni, I am talking about you, you fucking arsehole) were trying to sell to the citizenry.
I do not buy for a damn second that your or mine, or anyone else's politicians were "fooled". bullfuking shit. They bloody well knew what was going on and decided to play a game, hoping that if they win, they would be the ones writing history. Fuck them. Every single one who voted for that war is a war criminal. That would include most of your Senate and Congress and most of our House.

"We" the people in UK didn't believe it. 10 million of us on one single day marched against that war. That's about 1 out of 6 people in UK. If we could see bullshit for what it was so could they, assuming they were willing.


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Response to idwiyo (Reply #70)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:45 PM

72. Completely and utterly wrong.

There was no proof either way until the UN Weapons Inspectors were on the ground examining the sites.

And I dont believe the bullshit you are peddling that "people knew". Nobody knew. People had suspicions one way or the other, they didn't "know". It was a boolean proposition, yes they had them or no they didn't and you happened to guess right, that doesn't mean you "knew".

If you have a progressive bone in your body, you know the difference between assuming or supposing something and a hard fact. Until an impartial body looks at something and says it is or is not there, you are doing the former, not the latter.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:24 AM

86. I am not "peddling" anything but truth. You, on the other hand are peddling bullshit.

There was no fucking Boolean proposition. There was "prove the negative" that Shrub and Toni kept insisting on, and if you have even an ounce of integrity in YOUR body you'd know it for what it was.

There were reports by UN inspectors who were saying that chances that Saddam had WMDs were so low as to be laughable.

There was "yellow cake" bullshit

Did you conveniently forgot about Downing Street Memo? Or are You going to tell me only 2 people were privy to it contents?

Bush-Aznar memo?

Iraq dossier?

Your fucking piece of shit Colin Powell masterful performance in UN?

Moronic pictures of fuck really knows what that "I" was told to believe we're mobile weapons labs? Even so experts were saying it was extremely unlikely?

Hysterical statements by Ahmed Chalabi?

This is just a top of the iceberg. If anyone of your or mine politicians wanted to make sure they knew what was going on, they could. They decided not to because their political feature was more important to them than starting a war of aggression based of fake premise.

I repeat my statement: every single one of them who voted for that war is a war criminal.

If YOU had a progressive bone in YOUR body, you would know there were no hard facts presented before that war. None. Nada. Zilch.
There were allegations that didn't bear scrutiny.
There were appeals to patriotism.
There were statements based on hearsay (Chalabi and others comes to mind)
There were shitload of demands to prove negative.
That's bloody it.

NOTHING ELSE.


But go ahead, keep insisting that some of your politicians are whiter than white and were against it before they were for it if it makes you feel better.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:28 PM

130. No proof either way means we should not have invaded...

The people didn't know, the Congress didn't know, the media didn't know, but the intelligence agencies did know. That's the stated point of this special, the accounts of dissent within the government and how they were treated.

There have been three cases I know of where agents found out their dissents were being steamrolled only as the principals were giving public speeches. In Hubris, Zinni talks of almost choking on his lozenge when Cheney tells the Veterans of Foreign Wars WMD have been found. Another career intel official threw his shoe at the TV when he heard Bush make a similar comment.

Tyler Drumheller, the European Chief of the CIA was flabbergasted to hear in Colin Powell's address that Curveball was referenced when he had already been assured he was removed. Overseas, the Brits knew - the Germans knew, their paper trails are also documented.

Those of us out on the street protesting had hunches, but couldn't prove it.

So I think the thrust of this book/TV special will be learning how those inside the government who actually knew were squelched and ignored.

But you're right that there needed to be inspections on the ground. Powell thought WMD would eventually be found, even though there had been no real evidence beforehand, they'd rustle something up and that all would be okay. Hans Blix not only said his inspectors saw no evidence of WMD, but that Cheney took him aside and told him to lie to Bush, to say there were, or he'd be discredited.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:40 PM

141. "There was no proof either way..."

So, by all means, invade!

No. That is criminal.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #70)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:00 AM

102. +1...!

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:08 PM

119. I don't for a minute believe that most politicians in the world thought there were WMD

Millions of ordinary people all over the world were astute enough to look at the facts and conclude that it was bullshit. I think that the politicians went along knowing full well it was a lie. Perhaps out of fear of Cheney and his insane monkey, perhaps they did it to be self serving, but in the end every one of them that went along with the invasion are culpable too.

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:53 PM

48. Or, he will quote from the NY Times but fail to mention he was the source.

Deja Vu all over again.

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Response to busterbrown (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:15 AM

79. The Bush administration could have simply and honestly

been wrong about, say the Niger documents, or say, the trucks that were moving WMD launch sites or say that Hussein was supporting Al Qaeda. Could have been wrong about one, maybe two of those things. But the Bush administration was wrong about everything. They built a case for war based on lies and nothing more.

They relied on statements made by a prisoner who was being tortured. But . . . . what else did the tortured prisoner say that they chose to ignore?

They relied on obviously forged documents?

They ignored the report of the UN investigators which was presented to the UN before we entered Iraq.

Read the Vanity Fair article on the weeks and days before the war. That was published in April 2004. I will never forget reading that article. The whole war was a hoax, and I'm glad that Rachel Maddow is finally reporting on it.

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Response to Archae (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:51 PM

10. I remember that!

I'd forgotten about that...but does the media still have the same fear of Cheney today? He was able to get stories killed left and right when he was in power and for years after. I remember when 20/20 withdrew their rumored show about Cheney being on the DC Madam's list.

Then, the news never reported that Halliburton paid over $500 million in fines for bribes made when Cheney was CEO. Cheney had a strong influence over the media for so long. The worst was Sean Hannity, setting up softball questions one after one like a bootlicking puppy dog...

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Response to Amerigus (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:09 PM

17. Welcome to DU, Amerigus!

Good to have you with us! The worst may have actually been Tim Russert, who sat there nodding and smiling and giving cheney and all the rest of 'em loads of facetime on "Meet the Press" - not challenging them, not questioning, just happily letting them pass all this false information along to the gullible public. Delighted and smug as could be that he had all that damn precious all-important access. He's to blame for this. When they stovepiped raw, unvetted "intel" straight from the street to cheney's office, Tim Russert was willingly the mainstrem media stovepipe they used to hose America.

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Response to calimary (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:00 PM

33. Here's a quickie Timmy sample

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Response to johnnyreb (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:31 PM

111. Never saw that one...

Good blast from the past. The drawings look like they were done by the Mad Magazine guys.

Let the record show that MSNBC's parent NBC dropped the ball bigtime and that Press The Meat swallowed whole the Bush propaganda. But Bob Schieffer over at Face The Nation was not so gullible. See how busted Rumsfeld was when he tried to deny his own statements after everything came crashing down....you do not often get caught in a lie so badly on live TV, but here it is...

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Response to Amerigus (Reply #111)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:14 PM

136. Good clip, thanks! n/t

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Response to Amerigus (Reply #111)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:46 PM

142. OMFG! "Mmmmm hmmmm." That's all you fucking have to say, Rummy, when you are dead to rights proven a

liar. These scum don't even have the decency to be embarrassed by their blatant lies. Yet these same assholes view themselves as morally superior. And, of course, the lack of outrage from most Americans at this duplicity just seals the deal.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #142)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:33 PM

145. "Morally superior"...

So true, isn't Rumsfeld just so pompous to Schieffer seconds before he was caught in the lie?

It's like he is incredulous anyone deigned to question him. So the clip is the real height of hubris, arrogance mixed with lies and incompetence. He was humbled instantly, muttering that he tried his best to present the best information he had at the time. What a dickweed. A must see video...

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Response to calimary (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:10 PM

37. Yeah..

... and now we have his son.

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Response to calimary (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:25 AM

96. Totally agree!

And David (I proudly party with kkkkarl) Gregory is carrying on the legacy.

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Response to Archae (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:36 PM

26. "Wanna go quail hunting sometime ?" nt

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Response to Archae (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:23 PM

43. No, his quote will be:

"Go fuck yourself!"

Stay classy Darth, stay classy.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:49 PM

9. hope so, it's about time someone has. benghazi? how many iraq deaths????

too fucking many

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:54 PM

11. Dawn breaks over Marblehead!

I got it, I have the answer....this why the GOP hates women so.

This is why they have been waging a war on us, they are Scared to Death of us. They have been trying to push us into the darkness, to SHUT US UP!

Look who we have! Hillary Kicking ass for four years as SOS. Elizabeth in her first thirty or so days is Kicking the Banksters Asses! Now we have Rachel who in my mind, will be Kicking the failed Bushco's Asses to Hell and back!

They don't hate us they FEAR US! Ain't life grand!

Thanks Purveyor!!!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:20 PM

106. That fear

has been the framework for the misogyny and patriarchal hierarchy that continues to delimit our species in stultifying, often deadly ways.

However, if we look carefully, we find strong, amazing women throughout history. Ms Maddow stands on the shoulders of a plethora of brave, memorable women.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:03 PM

12. Nothing will come of it

I'm sorry to say.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:08 PM

15. At the very least it need not be forgot and since it was 10 years ago, some of our younger friends

may be enlightened by crimes that took place.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:10 PM

18. True, and I'm all for reminding people

And for informing those who managed to blind themselves to the reality back then.

However, I see people posting about war crimes trials, and that's not going to happen. I wish it would, but I know it won't.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:38 PM

28. Maybe not, but it is long over due as another posted pointed out.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:06 PM

14. 237 misleading statements about Iraq

Rep. Henry Waxman has released a report of the U.S. House of Representatives (16 March 2004) that identifies 237 misleading statements about Iraq made by President George Bush, Vice President Richard Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice in 125 public appearances.

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/pdf_admin_iraq.pdf

This was some pretty heady stuff back in its day.

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:02 AM

103. Thanks for the reminder with the link! n/t

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:21 PM

22. Can I play devils advocate?

Is the re-focus on this aimed at distracting the blow-back against the Obama administration's drone war campaign?

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:13 PM

40. Seriously would not surprise me.

 

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:43 PM

46. Nah. It's an anniversary thing. It's 2013.

Ten years.

And it needs to be done.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:04 PM

68. I think there are some of the same cast of characters that are trying the same techniques

to get the US involved in other areas overseas, such as Syria. So far, they have failed. But the other night Rachel mentioned on her show someone from the current administration (she might have literally said the White House but I cannot remember her exact words) is leaking information to try to influence public opinion regarding why the United States should assist in Syria.

Sam

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:41 PM

112. no, in fact...

...if you read the article, it mentions Maddow came out strongly criticizing the legality of Obama's drone program.

She has been consistent too, in her book Drift, she mentions how casually Americans accept drone killings, if we even know about it at all.

Here she has exclusive footage of drone strike damage in Pakistan, which caused a major anti-American backlash. She notes Obama has "tripled" Bush's drone policy, maintaining an undeclared war on Pakistan, and kept it secret to boot: http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2012/06/29/12489607-maddow-exclusive-never-before-seen-footage-of-us-drone-strike-damage-in-pakistan?lite

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Response to Amerigus (Reply #112)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:42 PM

114. That is great to hear, I am going to read that, thank you.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:30 PM

24. "justified a war that resulted in over 4,800 US troop deaths"


I'm finished with this entire fucking narrative.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:37 PM

27. I wonder

if she will talk about the 2.3 trillion dollars in cash that is still missing.

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Response to maindawg (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:42 PM

30. this just makes me think of the contrasts

between those times and the horrific stuff the Bush Admin got away with with hardly a contest and question and the acrobats the repugnicants are going through on Benghazi and the 'crimes' of that scene.

They project like no projector ever in any and all known or unknown universes. Yes, they are good at that, the one thing they are good at is accusing someone else of what they did a thousand fold worse.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:59 PM

31. Only someone outside of the government....

... can indict the GWB cabal. The USG will never ever ever hold itself responsible. Commissions = kangaroo court/kabuki theater. That's right, Rachel. It's high time someone did something. It's been ten fucking years now. No, she can't really do anything, but she can damn sure tell the people what the USG and the mainstream media did to this country. And hell, that's just one thing... Think of all the rest of what they did to our country (and the world), re the economy. I really do have a headache over all this.

Does anyone know how long Rachel's documentary is? If it's only an hour, think of how much they had to cut out. Or is this going to go on all week long? Now that would be sweet.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:08 PM

36. Even with all these lies

We are supposed to believe Bush's lies about 9/11 too. Without 9/11, No Iraq war. I wish Rachel will make that jump, but I doubt it. They are too afraid. They fear backlash over the truth of 9/11.

There's video where after 2 months after 9/11 Bush says he saw the FIRST plane hit live as it happened on TV. IMPOSSIBLE! (What's more impossible is a poor black school having cable). Unless of course it was from his limo and it was all part of the plan. Because news crews didn't appear till after the hit. Why doesn't ANYONE with air time look into that? Bush said it twice. I hope this opens EVERY can of worms and we have Bush/Cheney testifying live on TV. No more behind closed doors with no notes or cameras and no DICK Cheney there to correct him and hold his hand.

Maybe Dan Rather could venture off into it. He did say all the buildings looked like a controlled demolition. He was right. IMO. They want to cry over Benghazi, well, let's really watch them cry. How did the Pentagon FAIL us? I mean the fucking Pentagon gets hit, and nobody is interested how that could possibly happen. Or that the man who was supposed to be protecting us was helping victims at the Pentagon. The 9/11 myth wouldn't even make a good movie. Too unbelievable. 19 terrorist hold up worlds biggest defense system, and got away with it for HOURS and nobody blames ANYONE except the 19 terrorist.

Or 19 terrorist who want to blow up a plane in NY fly out of Boston. LOL! Yes over a lot of military bases makes the movie more thrilling. I guess JFK was closed 09/11/01. Oh that's right, JFK didn't allow box cutters on board. Damn, foiled again.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:58 AM

101. A multitude of reasons why 9/11 was an inside job, but all swept under the rug. n/t

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:34 PM

121. Have you noticed

how the phony "War on Terra" has morphed into "Very Real and Serious Threats?"

I'm certain President Looking Forward will immediately launch an investigation into this matter.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:11 PM

38. This is gonna leave a scar!

 

I monitor a lot of the crazy rightie websites. I can picture the heads exploding already!

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:12 PM

39. The criminals responsible will never be held responsible. So really, what's the point?

 

It's all water under the bridge now. They lied, they started an illegal war, and they totally got away with it.

The current inhabitant of the oval office and AG's office have not only turned a blind eye to that, they are using the Bush Administration's Orwellianism as a model for their own very questionable, but not to BE questioned, actions.

Rachel Maddow and the others who worked on this expose no doubt did a kickass job, but nothing will come of it. The screwing is too entrenched.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:50 PM

47. You may be right

In that legally nothing will be done.

But... maybe Cheney's heart gets a nice electrical short that does him in for good?

And little Jeb Bush sees it and decides, ""Nope, ain't gonna run. What's the use? My name is lower than dirt.""

And the next time some warmonger gets a wild idea that he/she can fool the public this review gets shoved in its face?

This whole thing is what could be called 'writing history'. One for the record books. Otherwise only the Bush side makes it through the ages.

I wished I could rec this thread a hundred times.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:20 PM

58. You are more optimistic than I am...

 

I think Repugs will do what they do best, ignore it. Actually, if anything, I think Cheney will get a positive charge from the fact that he perpetrated this crime and NO amount of exposure, including this effort, will ever stop him from getting away from it. I think when Jeb Bush sees the lack of affect this show has on anything, he'll just be more encouraged to run. And other prospective warmongers, too. After all, the bottom line is that there is NO ONE who is in a position to really be able to call them to accoujnt, who is also inclined to do so. I just can't see this documentary doing a thing to change that.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #58)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:31 PM

61. Damn, you are a pessimist.

Cheney will react... if it is strong enough. He wasn't even invited to the last two conventions. No wonder he has a broken heart. This may just short circuit his electric heart. I sure hope I outlive the bastard and this may just be the straw that makes that come true.

Anyway, this hopefully will set the history books straight. And allow the country to see that we were misled, and allow for some republicans and right wing democrats some cover so they can openly repent their evil ways.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #61)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:36 PM

63. I've been alive too long not to be. I'd prefer if you were right, though.

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:39 PM

64. Let's make sure the world sees this report

It will be up to all of us to make sure it becomes the BUZZ.

To me, this truth, so long delayed and hidden, is what has ruined this country and made it tough for Obama to do what he needs to do.

This could be a big tipping point for making progress. But only if we make sure it spreads.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:23 PM

134. Truth, Justice, and the American Way

Even if there is no hope of Justice being served in this matter, we must continue shouting the Truth from the rooftops.

Otherwise, the American Way will be more senseless slaughter based on lies.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:22 PM

42. HUGE K & R !!!


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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:29 PM

44. The sentence

For war criminals under 18 U.S.C. 2441 if a victim dies . . . is the death penalty.

President Obama would be signing his own death warrant if Cheney were indicted. There would be a war within the US foreign policy establishment.

Not happening.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:38 PM

45. Sometimes it is good to be upset by the facts

We have been taught from childhood that no one is above the law, this program may cause all of us to question the veracity of this concept.
Follow the facts where they lead and accept the conclusions.
There were many that did not see the evidence that the Bush administration put forth as a basis for the Iraq war as credible. War crimes, possible genocide, war profiteering, etc. Perhaps it is time that a full investigation by the Congress and even an international tribunal look into the many issues surrounding this matter of the Iraq war where a legally elected government of a sovereign nation was removed.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:59 PM

51. About time someone bucked the trend of sweeping Cheney under the rug

And here I was beginning to think justice would never be done. If Rachel can play a part in throwing Cheney behind bars, let's see what she brings to the table.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:00 PM

52. Holy Kick & R

Get'm Rachel.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:13 PM

55. Purveyor

Purveyor

Not exactly news - as it was known a decade ago, for everyone who was able to put two and two together, that the Administration of mr Bush, was lying, lying, and then some more lying for making the case for the Iraq war.
They was not even shy of making the case for war, with evidences, who was so clearly a hoax, and so full of outright lies, that even a 10 year kid should have understood it... (And most 10 years do understood it I guess)...

The US media have also been cultiple of with wash whatever the Bush administration did, the 8 year they was in office.. Regardless the war crimes - the US media was very god of making excuses, and to tell lies about it - to the evidences was coming to light, as it did when the pictures of soldiers, who proudly was showing of their victims at Abeu Girab - a prison complex, who under Saddam Hussein already had made a notorious reputation - but who under the US control, got a even worst reputation - as the US soldiers, tortured -and even murdered prisoners - and showing it off - by taking pictures of it... But the "smart" ones, higher ups, in the CIA, and in the Army, was never shown in the pictures - and will never getting any punishment for their crimes - who was plenty in the time they was in Iraq...

The US, under the administration of mr Bush - did horrible war crimes in Saddam - and the US media was giving him a free pass - also the others - who was part of the administration in one way or another - was also given a free pass, by the media - even when they more or less admitted to the crimes - and proudly was bragging about how great they had been...

It is definitely TIME for someone to step forward in the US media - to inform a a population who for the most part, have no clue what was being made in their name - the evidences for the crimes, the horrible crimes is overwhelming - and for the most part documented in books, in articles - and in many reports - who was never given to the US population, but who have circulated around the world - and possible made US a few enemies along the way too...

The WMD was a lie - flat out lie from start to end. Just people who had been brainwashed would believe that Iraq pr 2003 had any WMD whats so ever - even though the UN inspectors in Iraq, by the end of 1998 more or less had managed to mop out everything Iraq had of programs - or equipment to make any WMD... As we might know - the US and the UN inspectors in Iraq, was by 1998 asked to leave - because CIA had used the weasel of the UN inspectors - to spy on Iraq government officials - and even tried to requite soldiers - and officers to overthrow Saddam Hussain... The plot was discovered, and many iraqis lost their life in the proses - and the UN inspectors was more or less thrown out of the country...
In 2002-03, the UN inspectors was back inn the country - to look at old and new sites, to, if possible excess the possibility that Iraq had started up the programs, and had WMD weapons - the Inspectors was over all the old sites - and many new ones - who USA intelligence claimed was build to produce WMD.. The UN inspectors, led by Hans Blix, was given a report to the UN Security council, where the evidences was given - but where Hans Blix wanted more time - and more experts on the ground, to document if Iraq had any WMD programs reinstated - The Inspectors was told to F**** them self by no less than the US vice President Dick R. Cheney - and in the end the Inspectors had to leave - because the US was hellbent of going to war...

No Weapons of mass destruction was ever found - not by the UN inspectors in 2002-03 and no one by the Pentagon experts, who was given all the resources the UN inspectors was lacking because of the lack of will from the US government to provide any expert to the UN led organisation... After less than 6 mounts of "recharsh" the Pentagon officers who was there to discover any WMD programs - was either relocated to other task who had nothing with the problems around WMD - or sent back to US, where their reports since have been used as dust catches - as the documents told a whole different story about the possibility about Iraq WMD - than the Bush administration told the public...

I do not believe it is will, or courage in the US to prosecute any officials from the Bush era for what they was doing in Iraq, or in Afghanistan for that matter.. I fear, that the bulk of them, will live out their life - secure, and with no bad days, thinking about the horrible crimes they is guilty of... They know they are secure - as long as their keep their mouth shut - and not in other nations territory. As long as they hide in the US - the crimes they did, on official level - will never be punished - and some of them will even be lauded as great american - by many who really believed the US had to bomb Iraq - and to do the crimes because the possibility of Iraq using nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against the US was overwhelming by 2003.. Most americans it looks like lost their mind after 11 sept 2001.. A collective madness happened - and all reasonable thinking just blow away - and for many americans, their mind is still out in the woods somewhere - some are coming to their senses - and is trying to discover what so many others did understood already as the Bush administration was planing their war against Iraq..

And the fact, is if americans really had been educated to understand what happened in their name, in Iraq, and in many other places - I doubt somehow Bush would have been president for 8 years - but as long as they was been scared out of their minds the whole time - by the media, who ran 24/7/365 propaganda to scare the mind of of them - as long as they continued to do that - most americans was blind to the reality..

Diclotican

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:16 PM

56. Because there weren't any?

Do people really believe that there were WMDs? I mean sane people, not repukes. I knew there weren't any. The inspectors said so. Why would they lie?

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:23 PM

59. Remember, it's not just Rachel Maddow.

She's narrating it, but David Corn is the author or co-author (I forget which), and he was kind enough to bring us the 47% video, which changed peoples' conversations during the election season. I hope there's a nice surprise, like a bunch of witnesses suddenly coming forward. I'm not holding my breath, though... as great as "heads will explode" sounds, Rachel does tend to overhype things ("best new thing in the world").

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:37 PM

71. What We Knew, What We Were Told

The Stories That Led Us to War

http://www.timbuk3.com/knew.htm

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:00 AM

74. I'm assuming someone from the U.K. will see this

I for one will not be "upset". Darth Vader and his neo-cons croonies will. But if this provokes someone in the U.K. or Hague to get off their ass and put war criminals where they belong, so be it. But I worry: Obama may have given GW lifetime Secret Service support--in executive order. Can SS stop criminal investigation/charges? Who over-rides who?

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:19 AM

76. Rachael, please

stay off of small planes. I hope she has people watching her back.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:45 AM

77. This will hit not only the war criminals Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld, but also a few prominent Democrats

for their indirect complicity.

I am looking forward to this. I've almost given hope that Bush, Cheney, et al would ever be brought to justice.

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Response to FleetwoodMac (Reply #77)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:46 AM

81. This - and Elizabeth Warren

are hopeful signs that the rule of law will return to America.

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Response to upi402 (Reply #81)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:04 AM

88. I just hope we can afford the price, mate (NT)

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:33 AM

83. Rachael Maddow Has A Reputation For Being Very Careful With The Facts

And is quick to follow up with corrections when something is not quite right. This should make Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld very unsettled. About time too.

I hope she touches on Bush saying Saddam wouldn't let the UN weapons inspectors in right after he kicked them out so he could start the bombing. And that Hans Blix complained bitterly about the Americans (Bush) sending his inspectors on "wild goose chases" and undermining their inspection efforts.

And lastly, the wording of the Senate resolution authorizing war because it was tied to getting the UN inspectors in and with unfettered access to all sites. Since that was the case, the war Bush started is not the war Congress authorized.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:26 AM

84. The evidence of these crimes has been made public for years and years

 

and still nothing will happen and no one will be prosecuted. Here's some old evidence that most people completely ignore:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_on_the_Record_Report

This report contains 237 claims for specific misleading statements made by:

* Colin Powell
* Donald Rumsfeld
* Condoleezza Rice
* George W. Bush
* Dick Cheney

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:29 AM

85. Excellent. About time. n/t

 

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:02 AM

90. According to this

 

author's statement, " Perhaps most striking is the way most media has ignored Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, a top Bush administration insider who has offered to testify directly against Dick Cheney and others." That is a profound statement considering all the other explosive statements Colonel Wilkerson has made about his Party.

The media is owned by corporate interests. The same corporate interests that support his Party. They are just as complicit with the lies as the Bush Administration that led us into a trumped up War. Lets be honest, Saddam Hussein was an Arab Dictator that needed to be got rid of, for what meddling certain interests wanted to do in the Middle East. They didn't need him anymore, so they got rid of what they thought was a nuisance. That is why the Congress and media went along. Most in the Republican Party still defend that War but now they find themselves in the minority. So instead of real journalism, many in the American media today, ( owned by corporate monopolies) try to shape American Policy, instead of reporting facts. If the facts don't jive with their agenda's, then they create their own facts. Just look at what they are trying to do with fiscal Policy, even though Public opinion isn't with them. They are lying about entitlements too. They weren't so concerned about Fiscal Policy then when they were trumping up an illegal War, leading us to nation building. They are all profiting off it too.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:32 AM

91. But the Democratic leadership will do nothing!!

Yes its going to be a good story with plenty of evidence that points to Bush and Cheney but the democratic party leadership will do nothing about it.


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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:07 AM

95. The real question is does Maddow have proof or just opinion?

If she has actual proof say that Bush knowingly lied about the whole reason to invade Iraq then ya there is a good case imo for war crimes charges but not if its just opinion and or a rehash of old info that is already known.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #95)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:48 PM

117. HOW'S THIS BIG FAT WITTING LIE:

My personal favorite, the one LIE that was SO BIZARRE, SO EASILY DISPROVEN YET WAS NOT BY OUR MEDIA, as to beggar belief:
Saddam Hussein was unwilling to let the inspectors go in to determine whether or not the U.N. resolutions were being upheld."
—President George W. Bush
Dec. 1, 2008
http://www.unknownnews.org/inspectors.html

Hans Blix was imaginary???

See rest of thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2384778

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #117)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:42 PM

138. Hans Blix??? Who's that? What would HE know about WMDs, damn ferriner, he can't even

speak English properly. And anyway, Judith Miller just happen to find this videotape in blasted and burnt out building in a middle of Gobi desert that says Hans Blix and George Galloway were taking bribes from Saddam and killing li'l kittens for fun with Valerie Plame helping as a lookout.
There.






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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #117)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:37 AM

151. But isnt that all old news though WinkyDink?

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #151)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:47 AM

152. I hope this is sarcasm.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #152)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 09:54 AM

153. No, its a serious question.

I'm not disputing the info itself mind you just asking if its all stuff we have known about for awhile? If so then it makes me wonder what exactly Maddow is going to say even more.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #153)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 01:34 PM

154. Significant because it hasn't been on the TV yet...

This is why it's important to generate buzz beforehand. I could have even included a link thanking MSNBC and expressing the hope that they include the reports about al-Libi in the documentary, but that would be a bit sarcastic because I don't actually think they will include that, even though it was in the book. Maybe I'm wrong...

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:41 AM

97. We have lies and cover ups on a lot of important things. I'll admit, this one is the biggest

enchilada! However, right now we have a Foriegn corporation who is using its untold wealth to warp our judicial system and cover up one of the biggest ecological, economical, and preventable disasters. BP, using politicians that it owns, using the media which it bribed, and using the Court system which it also bribed, to fuck over the Gulf coast residents and businesses. They caused the explosion and spill b/c of greed. They were behind their schedule so they cut a lot of corners. They sprayed Corexit on the oil to sink it out of sight so it could not be counted, thus reducing their fine for violating the Clean Water Act. They have aired their propaganda non-stop on Coastal stations making BP the biggest coastal advertiser by far. None dare to write or show anything negative about BP. What is happening to the victims is grossly under reported. The oil and Corexit are killing and/or sterilizing the sea life. They have used their money to bribe the Plaintiffs Steering Committee which were appointed by the Judge (his friends).
We need complete campaign finance reform and to bust up the too big media companies on our airwaves! This shit needs to change. Why did Obama say we were going to look forward, not back? We have too big to prosecute, too corrupt to care!

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:18 AM

104. Connecting The Dots......

I go back to a meeting that Cheney had with the oil companies where they supposedly divided up Iraq for the oil companies? Didn't someone try to get the minutes of that meeting and Cheney used Executive Privilege to keep them private? What about PNAC and the justification for such a war was a 'new Pearl Harbor'?

We watched this all unfold before our eyes. Some of us here were calling them out as it happened - but the hurt of 9/11 helped as it let many Americans look the other way. It seems all so obvious now - looking back.

Did we ever find out who was shorting the airline stocks on 9/11? How about the Patriot Act - wasn't that all set and written and ready to be enacted if we had some justification to enact it?

Missing money in Iraq. TSA and the hassle we all went through and are still going through at the airports.

I'm thinking this documentary is just one part - a big part - of connecting the dots. There are other documentaries that need to written and aired that expose all these other things as well.

Yellow cake. Valerie Plame. Powell's speech at the UN.

The stolen elections. Why didn't Gore put up a bigger fight to what was rightfully his? Why didn't Kerry challenge? Why did these two guys just roll over? Where they or their families threatened?

If someone wrote a fictional novel based on all this - it all follows in line - perfectly. So perfectly - people wouldn't believe it reading the novel - yet it happened right before our eyes and under our noses.

I sit back now and say - who was behind all this? what was/is their motive? money? oil? power? complete bringdown of the United States? Doesn't it look like someone is methodically trying to take down this country? Who benefitted.

Is it still going on? Hmmmm..... Citizens United? Election rigging? The fiasco of what we call Congress now? Not changing the filibuster rule so that we can make progress in this country. Was Reid threatened?

I wonder!!!!!!!

Are we finally waking up? Are we beginning to connect the dots?

That's what we have to do.

.............................. connect the dots people .......... connect the dots.

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Response to global1 (Reply #104)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:23 PM

109. I wonder, cant Obama lift the Executive Privilege claim on the minutes of that meeting now?

Surely a meeting that took place that long ago no longer needs the protection.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:25 PM

107. Yet, the Media Continues To Push RW Conspiracy Theories About Bengazi...

Last edited Sun Feb 17, 2013, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)

...which was one terrorist attack on a counsulate while ignoring Bush's administration wide effort to lead the Nation into war.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:27 PM

110. dvr set. can't wait.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:42 PM

113. Don't travel by small plane, Rachel.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:57 PM

118. Good for her and MSNBC...

 

but, um...anyone who watches her show already knows all this.

Preaching to the choir pretty much...we'll all get angry again and then it'll be time to pick up the dry cleaning and life will go on.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:39 PM

123. Why Obama and Congress did nothing...

A couple of people have asked why Obama and Congress did nothing when it seemed evidence showing fraud was so strong. The issue mattered to voters in the 2008 election - one of two major reasons Obama edged out Hillary in the primaries was the fact that she voted for the Iraq war.

When Obama first got into office in January 2009, some held out hope he would prosecute Bush era crimes. When asked, the President said he wanted to look forward, not back. Most people thought he decided not to burn his political capital by starting investigations and prosecutions. But a member of Obama's transition team spoke about the issue when it came up behind closed doors:

Dean Chris Edley volunteered that he’d been party to very high-level discussions during Obama’s transition about prosecuting the criminals. He said they decided against it...Two reasons: 1) it was thought that the CIA, NSA, and military would revolt, and 2) it was thought the Repugnants would retaliate by blocking every piece of legislation they tried to move (which, of course, they’ve done anyhow).


But even though the Iraq debacle polled as a major issue with voters, no one in the network media would report on it, and no one in Congress would stand up. Some voters expected Congress or President Obama was waiting to take action after inauguration because Bush could no longer pardon his pals, but it never happened.

John Conyers, the chair of the House Judiciary Committee tried a little harder than Obama, calling in 2009 for a special prosecutor because so many "breadcrumbs" suggesting crimes led right to the Bush White House.

But this request got no further than the desk of Attorney General Eric Holder, a "revolving door" appointment who has his own history of questionable activities. The WMD intel crimes met the same dead end as the mortgage fraud crimes that caused the economic collapse. Why? Perhaps it was potentially too "messy", with Democrats too complicit (Chris Dodd, for example, told British ministers the war was inevitable). But sitting Dems may have felt too vulnerable to retribution or blackmail for other improprieties.

Maybe you have an opinion as to why, but Conyers at least did something, Kucinich tried something, Waxman tried something, Feingold spoke up, Cynthia McKinney spoke out, and many localities passed resolutions calling for prosecution. Most in Congress did nothing, beholden to military industrial interests or unwilling to stick their necks out.

The Chilcot Hearings held in the UK also found the Blair administration at fault, speaking much more openly about the deception at the highest levels than we have in the US.

But Obama's appointments and weak stomach for upholding the rule of law continue to be a nagging issue.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:48 PM

124. Be it jail, South Africa or Paraguay, it would be nice to rid ourselves of the filth.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:57 PM

127. "mistakes" justified a war .....

"Sometimes a mistake is wearing white after Labour Day, and sometimes a mistake is invading Russia in winter.” -
Alan Alda's character in Nothing But the Truth.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:15 PM

128. I think mild mannered Rachel is beginning to sharpen

her sword. Keep "upsetting" us Rachel, but be sure to watch your back. You are treading on some very power toes here.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:25 PM

129. One thing the Republicans have always been good at...

...is taking BULLSHIT and, with the help of their media allies, wrapping it in a nice, "patriotic" picture of God, Guns, Guts and the Flag. The trouble is that it's still BULLSHIT and stinks like HELL.

The country was still reeling from 9/11. Bush/Cheney knew that. That is why he was able to, with the help of (inexcusably) complicit Democrats, ram the resolution authorising violence against Iraq through the Congress. Bush had long wanted to settle scores with Saddam Hussein over the attempt on Bush Senior in 1993. PERFECT chance, and to hell with the cost to this country in the blood of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines and Coasties (the USCG's first combat death since WWII) and money/resources.

Bush was able to manipulate it into getting the country's support for the Texan cowboy opening a can of WhupAss against them MOOSLIMS over there, who just HAD to be in on 9/11.

More and more I despair of there being any hope for this country.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:40 PM

131. kick

kick

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:01 PM

133. k & r

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:45 PM

135. This is the BEST piece I've seen on HUBRIS, and a GREAT one to show the disbelievers -- short

and full of links and facts.

Thank you for posting!!

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:48 PM

140. My only question is why GE is now allowing this

to be discussed so openly

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #140)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:27 PM

143. GE is out of the entertainment business...

...you bring up a good question. In answer...

(Reuters) - Comcast Corp on Tuesday said it would buy General Electric's remaining 49 percent equity stake in their NBCUniversal joint venture for about $16.7 billion, speeding up a deal that had not been expected until at least late 2014.

This was just announced last week.

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Response to Amerigus (Reply #143)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:50 PM

147. Thanks. Was unaware. nt

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #140)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:33 PM

144. GE hasn't had controlling interest since 2011 when Comcast bought 51% of NBC

Comcast, just within the last few days, acquired full control (100%) of NBCUniversal. Don't think that GE has been controlling much programming on NBC, MSNBC for a couple of years now. But, I would never have thought that Comcast would let this program air either.

Truly hope this program makes a lot of people very angry...angry enough to demand that the war criminals be prosecuted. I hope that I'm not only dreaming!

[link:http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/comcast-buying-g-e-s-stake-in-nbcuniversal-for-16-7-billion/?partner=rss&emc=rss|

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Response to DearHeart (Reply #144)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:49 PM

146. I actually had no idea, thank you

Still wondering why this is being discussed now of all times, but good to know.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #146)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:20 PM

150. I with you on this one...can't figure it out.

I know that it's the 10th anniversary, but why any "network" or "news" program is "allowed" to air it, don't know. Maybe someone with some power, actually woke up!

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #146)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 01:47 PM

155. The article speculates...

...that the timing suggests they may have waited till after the election to begin production. The liberals in TRMS staff want to prod Obama to prosecute in his second term perhaps (keep dreaming, right?). Maybe they feel some incoming members of Congress will have the spine to investigate.

But Maddow herself had a contract renewal after the election, coinciding with stronger ratings. Maybe this is something she wanted.

Maybe something happened behind the scenes, like someone died or retired, or some score was settled. Maybe there was changeover in the network executive ranks, with new blood wondering why TV in 2013 has to censor the truth to protect Cheney.

We will be coming up on the 10 year anniversary of all these alleged crimes and coverups, maybe it's simply because the statutes of limitations expired.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 03:34 PM

158. The media was complicit in selling the Iraq War.

It never would have happened without Fox News. Hence the firewall.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:59 PM

161. kick

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