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Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:50 AM

Colorado passed all four gun control bills tonight

http://coloradopols.com/diary/37922/epic-gold-dome-gun-debate-underway

UPDATE 9:28PM: House Bill 13-1228, instituting a fee for background checks, passes on a voice vote with its fiscal note attached. That's almost exactly 12 hours of debate.

UPDATE 9:25PM: HB13-1226, banning concealed weapons on college campuses, passes. 3rd of 4 bills.


UPDATE 6:00PM: House Bill 13-1229, closing the "background check loophole," passes on a voice vote. That's two of four bills, a long night still lies ahead.


UPDATE #2: After more than five hours of debate, the first of four gun bills, HB13-1224 limiting the size of ammunition magazines to 15 rounds (amended from 10 rounds) passes the Colorado House on a voice vote.

The fist two passed (background checks and magazine limits) are the most critical. We've been trying to get the loophole closed for 13 years.

Thank you, Colorado Lege.

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Arrow 59 replies Author Time Post
Reply Colorado passed all four gun control bills tonight (Original post)
politicat Feb 2013 OP
fizzgig Feb 2013 #1
BainsBane Feb 2013 #2
quakerboy Feb 2013 #3
politicat Feb 2013 #4
quakerboy Feb 2013 #7
Cha Feb 2013 #5
defacto7 Feb 2013 #6
AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #8
politicat Feb 2013 #16
AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #23
Kolesar Feb 2013 #26
davidpdx Feb 2013 #9
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #10
Recursion Feb 2013 #14
politicat Feb 2013 #17
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #29
Light House Feb 2013 #11
eppur_se_muova Feb 2013 #12
Recursion Feb 2013 #13
derby378 Feb 2013 #15
politicat Feb 2013 #19
sir pball Feb 2013 #49
baldguy Feb 2013 #30
derby378 Feb 2013 #32
Robb Feb 2013 #33
derby378 Feb 2013 #34
Robb Feb 2013 #39
derby378 Feb 2013 #54
baldguy Feb 2013 #58
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #36
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #35
sir pball Feb 2013 #37
Robb Feb 2013 #40
sir pball Feb 2013 #41
Robb Feb 2013 #42
sir pball Feb 2013 #44
Robb Feb 2013 #45
sir pball Feb 2013 #46
Robb Feb 2013 #50
sir pball Feb 2013 #53
neverforget Feb 2013 #18
Robb Feb 2013 #20
politicat Feb 2013 #22
spanone Feb 2013 #21
Dr_Scholl Feb 2013 #24
laundry_queen Feb 2013 #25
Kolesar Feb 2013 #27
Dr_Scholl Feb 2013 #28
Robb Feb 2013 #31
aptal Feb 2013 #38
sir pball Feb 2013 #47
aptal Feb 2013 #51
sir pball Feb 2013 #52
aptal Feb 2013 #55
sir pball Feb 2013 #56
aptal Feb 2013 #57
sir pball Feb 2013 #43
HappyMe Feb 2013 #48
Dalai_1 Feb 2013 #59

Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:58 AM

1. the lege is just rolling right along this year

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:17 AM

2. way to go Colorado!

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:40 AM

3. Is that done done

Voted by both houses, signed by the governor?

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:59 AM

4. House tonight, but House was THE hurdle.

Senate is 20 Dem to 15 Republican, and does not have a filibuster type of tactic. Hick's kinda... Unfortunate, though much better than Owens. He's been behind all four bills since before proposal, and had said he'd sign.

Universal background checks has had more than 50% popular approval ( in a pro-gun rights state ) since 2003, and recent polling puts it above 80%.

Magazine limits reached majority approval last autumn. The hard way, unfortunately. The hunting element finds high cap magazines unnecessary, and they're the largest moiety of advocates.

Colorado has a TABOR, and a recent history of "pay-for-play" in all regulation. Pretty much any service has a fee attached, and any new service has to have a fee attached to make it close to revenue neutral.

The campuses have not been such a big issue. Weapons are already banned in dorms and CoNGers or ROTC have secure storage. This just moves those armories off campus.

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Response to politicat (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:07 AM

7. cool

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:21 AM

5. Good ol' Home State! Thanks politicat

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:38 AM

6. Rocky Mountain High.....

Colorado....

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:31 AM

8. But, but...

what about hurricanes and tornadoes and gangs and rioters and stuff?

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:33 PM

16. Um... Well, about that...

Given that the state averages 5000 feet of elevation and is entirely landlocked for more than 1000 miles, we don't worry much about hurricanes.

We get twisters, but of the F1-F2 variety. Even out on the plains, the storms don't have room to build up the really big, nasty cells. We lose shingles, crops and sometimes a really old mobile home, but newer mobiles have better tie-downs. We don't lose towns.

Gangs... Yeah. We got some. The major varieties are Ski Bum, Hippie, Johnny Cash Cowboy, RonPaul!-ist, and Software Geek. We've gotten really good at concentrating our Birchers by giving them their own county. We put in attractions for them, kinda like a Fundy Disneyland. We handle them like Key West handles tourists -- herd them into a narrow pen where it's easy to milk them and easy to hose out the poo and the vomit in the morning. Key West calls it Duvall Street. We call it Colorado Springs. Also, we have pot. Three quarters of the state thinks this is a very good thing. Commonality is a blessing (though there are apparently massive theological arguments about variety and growing method.)

Rioters. Heh. Yeah. We don't give couches the right to carry. (See the 8th paragraph. Really. It happened. There's a local folk song about those years.) We also learned our lesson on labor and social justice riots the hard way, a century ago.

More seriously, we've endured two major massacres. Most of the state is within 3 degrees of separation from someone who got hurt or killed in one or the other. When it's that personal, it changes how the culture feels, and fear of the unlikely Zombie/weather/social disaster just stops working.

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Response to politicat (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:15 AM

23. The only 'danger' Mr LaPierre left out of his rant...

was zombie apocalypse, though I'm sure he would have included it had he thought of it.

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Response to politicat (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:59 AM

26. concentrating our Birchers by giving them their own county

Please tell me "where I don't want to retire to". I am going to guess Colorado Springs, the Air Force town.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:36 AM

9. Congrats

Lets hope that other states get smart and do the same.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:52 PM

10. hmmm...

one would think that the demographics of Colorado would not be friendly to reasonable gun control laws, but one would be wrong.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:10 PM

14. These ideas are pretty widely accepted

In fact, as far as the national conversation goes, I think what Colorado did and didn't try to do is a great example.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:42 PM

17. Small population.

There's a demographics paper out there about Columbine. 80% of the state was within 3 degrees of separation from one of those students. Most of the state is within friend of friend of friend, which means everybody got at least a vicarious brush. We haven't done the demographics for Aurora, but given the numbers, that was probably at least 80%. When that many people get brushed, attitudes change.

Also, hunters still have a great degree of influence over the debate, and they consider high cap magazines insulting to their skills.

(And this is just my impression from talking to the long-timers, but there's a huge resentment towards out of staters from the large oil bearing state to the southeast who come up here to hunt and ski. It goes back to the Civil War, but it's still active, and if that state thinks something is good, there's almost a political reflex towards doing the opposite. A certain oil services company whose name starts with H is prominent, but not popular.)

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Response to politicat (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:41 AM

29. Not just that, actually not a rural state.

The urban area population is 86% of the population. National average is 84%. I was suprised at that.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:13 PM

11. These all look like good laws.

 

Good job CO.!!!!

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:48 PM

12. Goodbye, Wild West, your day has passed.

We hope.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:09 PM

13. Good bills

Glad to see those passed.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:53 PM

15. I predict legal challenges around the bend

Any challenge to the improved background check system will likely fail, but requiring a fee for the background check is more problematic from a Constitutional standpoint. Same with the magazine ban.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:52 PM

19. There's already a fee for license in place.

The fee is $25 (I think) when buying from an ATF dealer. (So says the sign at my local outdoor gear shop. I haven't been in recently, but that's what I recall from the last time DH and I were there.) I think that was challenged years ago and it survived. If the Lege was smart (which they generally are) they modeled the language on the tested language in the current bill.

I don't know how the magazine thing is going to work, but IIRC, most guns are packaged with stock magazines in the 10 round range. Our local shop doesn't carry the high cap magazines voluntarily (they pride themselves on only selling quality materials, and the gun counter manager considers them poorly made and a danger to the user. Which he repeats regularly and at volume to anyone who will listen. And watching him get wound up an enthusiast is entirely amusing.)

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Response to politicat (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:58 AM

49. The FFL check fee is now capped by the law

At $10. Don't know if the dealer HAS to perform it if you ask, though.

Most handguns these days come with 12-17 round magazines, stock, and most rifles that take magazines are 20 to 30-round. I don't have a problem whatsoever with limiting to 15 or even 10, but claiming that "high-cap" magazines are unreliable is disingenuous - a genuine Glock 17-round 9mm or Magpul 30-round .223 magazine is going to be as failsafe as possible - I've had cheap 5-rounders for my rifle that are far far worse than any quality 20.

CMags and the like on the other hand..

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Response to derby378 (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:54 AM

30. Face it. The RW gun nuts are losing.

And you will continue to lose.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:00 AM

32. Do I sense a mixed message?

Is this a collective "you" lumping me with the right-wingers, or is this "you" just for li'l ol' me?

Either way, keep telling yourself that.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:01 AM

33. If you tire of being lumped in with the right-wingers, I'd suggest you stop standing with them.

It's a problem you can solve for yourself.

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Response to Robb (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:04 AM

34. My dear Robb, I'm standing where I've always been since 2003...

...when Howard Dean helped my wife pull me into the ranks of the liberal Democrats.

I'm still here. Perhaps it's simply a matter of perspective for you, in which case, may I suggest a little George Orwell?

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Response to derby378 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:12 AM

39. Glad you like Dean. Now stop standing with the right-wing asylum on guns.

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Response to Robb (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:12 PM

54. I'm standing with the Constitution, not the teahadists, silly...

You know me. Okay, not as in I live down the street or we run into each other at Starbucks, but you know me.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #54)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 08:34 AM

58. The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

I don't see anything in the Constitution that says we have no recourse but to allow our children to be murdered by the most efficient killing machines.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:23 AM

36. Ok, ok, gun nuts...

The environment has completely changed.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:21 AM

35. California charges for them, next.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:29 AM

37. Depends on how much the fee turns out to be

If it's a reasonable fee it will pass muster, if it's something usurious designed to make ownership prohibitively expensive it will be shot down (despite the cheerleading some here would give it).

Actually doing my research and reading the bill, it doesn't set a specific amount but rather says a fee that only covers the "direct and indirect costs" of calling in the check. It also looks like it's only for checks the state performs; the BGC bill itself specifies that a dealer is allowed to perform the check - at a cost of no more than ten dollars. Seems like the state may have set their own limits there, I can't imagine their total cost to be any higher than a dealer.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:13 AM

40. CO's constitution requires these sorts of laws be designed to pay for themselves from the get-go. nt

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Response to Robb (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:22 AM

41. Which is entirely reasonable

I especially like the mandate that all money be kept isolated and any leftover at the end of the year is only to be used to decrease the costs the next year. Keeps the state from running a slush fund.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:27 AM

42. Actually, don't get me started. That part's screwy.

The problem with basing next year's funding on last year's spending is that when the economy declines, and a reasonable government does not spend all they are allowed, they become hobbled when the economy grows -- and additional services become required. It's a rule that only causes spending to decrease -- and obviously there are plenty of good reasons for government spending to rise when an economy is booming.

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Response to Robb (Reply #42)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:37 AM

44. I'm not parsing it as strict limits on costs

It seems to me that what would happen is come January 1st, a stats-weenie will project the number of checks to be performed and then adjust the cost of the check to reflect the amount remaining, with costs to rise again if the money runs out earlier. The funding for the program is always there but if it's coming in under budget, the extra is basically decreasing the cost to the state.

I think this needed to be done in order to pass the bill - I'd have mixed feelings about turning this (good) regulation into a moneymaker for the state and I suspect a lot of people would outright oppose it. Not like it's going to be too successful anyway, with the cap on dealer pricing, the gov't check can't be much more than $10 and there isn't much profit to be had at that point.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:46 AM

45. I agree, with this law it won't matter much.

But with almost everything else, the "looking back" spending model screws up vital services. Imagine being in charge of plowing freeways during a drought year. Next year, you're hosed.

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Response to Robb (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:52 AM

46. Bad analogy though

Highway department funding comes from the state but the BGC program is funded by charging the users. "We didn't do a lot of checks last year - sorry, the cost is up 20% this year." That would no doubt be part of the "indirect costs" in the bill.

It's a win-win...the program is self-strengthening insomuch as the more people who use it, the lower the cost to them and the more appealing it is versus an FFL, but if it isn't successful, the increased cost is still passed on to them. And if it's totally unused, there's no real cost beyond the training of a sheriff's deputy or whomever on how to call NICS.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:01 PM

50. If the funding works that way, you're right.

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Response to Robb (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:12 PM

53. The way I'm reading it, that's how it works

The entire program exists in a vacuum; the fees must pay for the program in its entirety and if the state highballs the indirect costs, the leftover money is spent reducing the fees next year. Revenue-and-debt neutral.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:48 PM

18. Good for the Colorado House for passing these very reasonable bills

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:56 PM

20. Senate sponsor is Mary Hodge.

Good, good, good.

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Response to Robb (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:12 PM

22. Yep - eastern Adams County

For non Colorado folks, E Adams is the stereotypical high plains -- rural and small town, mostly agricultural and ranching (though moving towards oil, gas and wind) and old-school conservative. it also encompasses much of Aurora, which is the major population center for the district. And Senator Hodges is a Dem from that area.

She was elected and reelected with a comfortable margin, and she's a middle of the road Dem -- seems okay with fracking, is fiscally sensible, has strong water rights policies.

Also, she's been championing a spaceportat the regional airport. For which she gets a bit of my money even if she wasn't already pretty good.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:08 PM

21. k&r...

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:22 AM

24. I feel 100 times safer already.

 

I mean, no one will ever be able to kill a lot of people on a gun-free college campus using magazines that hold 15 or fewer rounds...

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Response to Dr_Scholl (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 04:26 AM

25. Scared aren't ya? nt

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Response to Dr_Scholl (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 07:02 AM

27. Lame...eom

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 08:34 AM

28. No, realistic.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

Carried out using mostly 10 round and a few 15 round magazines.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:33 AM

31. Kick. And note: all four house bills? Sponsored by women.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 10:36 AM

38. Great bill.

Guess my only question is why the only made it a misdemeanor if it was an illegal transfer.

IMO, it should be a felony.

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Response to aptal (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:54 AM

47. Because it's completely redundant

Illegal transfers are already Federal crimes, I honestly don't know why they even bothered to put that part in there. Not that it bothers me at all, it's just kind of a "huh?"

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Response to sir pball (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:13 PM

51. Making it a felony would have at least detered it somewhat.

But I agree, I doubt this bill will do much to hinder Person to Person transfers.

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Response to aptal (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 09:11 PM

52. How would it deter it more than the Federal crime it already is?

I'm not trying to pull the NRA "criminals won't obey the law!" BS line, I'm just wondering why you think making something that is already illegal more illegal would deter it in any way? Maybe possibly somebody who didn't know it was a Federal crime might become aware of it now that it's a state law, but I don't see any publicity surrounding it so at this point it almost seems like it's just something added to give leverage in plea bargaining.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:54 PM

55. It is not a federal crime to transfer a firearm.

That is the point.

So Colorado passed a law saying that if you don't follow the transfer process and are caught you will get a misdemeanor. I am saying it should be a felony.

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Response to aptal (Reply #55)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:07 AM

56. Oops...reading error

I was reading that as transferring to a prohibited person (w/o check of course) was a misdemeanor, not a transfer without a check at all. I'm a bit ambivalent about a full felony but a much longer prohibition on possession of firearms would definitely be in order.

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Response to sir pball (Reply #56)

Mon Feb 18, 2013, 12:16 AM

57. Right, this is how the are closing the "loop-hole."

Although as I said, I am not sure this will curtail person to person transfer much, especially with just a misdemeanor.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:27 AM

43. As a DU-certified "NRA Shill"

Even though I haven't read any NRA publications, press releases, or any other form of media in years, and think they're basically raving lunatics..

I'm entirely fine with all these laws, having gone and actually read the bills to see the details. I carry where I can obtain a permit, and I own a "battle weapon" (like an "assault weapon" but based on a battle rifle not an assault rifle) as my primary deer rifle; but my pistol only takes 8 round magazines, I am limited to 5 when hunting, and wholeheartedly support background checks on all transactions, dealer or private.

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:54 AM

48. This is good news.



Way to go, Colorado!

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Response to politicat (Original post)

Sat Feb 23, 2013, 06:44 AM

59. K&R n/t

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