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Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:22 PM

Coroner concludes Dorner died from single gunshot wound to head. Evidence indicates self-inflicted

Coroner concludes Dorner died from single gunshot wound to head. Evidence indicates it was self-inflicted -

Breaking on AP, no link right this sec other thank twitter and

http://www.breakingnews.com/

50 replies, 3035 views

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Reply Coroner concludes Dorner died from single gunshot wound to head. Evidence indicates self-inflicted (Original post)
The Straight Story Feb 2013 OP
dipsydoodle Feb 2013 #1
Light House Feb 2013 #2
frylock Feb 2013 #3
Light House Feb 2013 #6
frylock Feb 2013 #10
Light House Feb 2013 #14
pintobean Feb 2013 #7
emulatorloo Feb 2013 #11
kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #47
marions ghost Feb 2013 #49
thucythucy Feb 2013 #17
frylock Feb 2013 #25
joshcryer Feb 2013 #27
frylock Feb 2013 #29
kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #48
seabeyond Feb 2013 #19
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #38
NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #4
Evergreen Emerald Feb 2013 #12
Light House Feb 2013 #20
frylock Feb 2013 #28
Light House Feb 2013 #41
frylock Feb 2013 #42
Light House Feb 2013 #43
DevonRex Feb 2013 #21
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #37
EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #5
Posteritatis Feb 2013 #9
Logical Feb 2013 #13
emulatorloo Feb 2013 #15
Logical Feb 2013 #16
Shivering Jemmy Feb 2013 #18
Logical Feb 2013 #22
Shivering Jemmy Feb 2013 #34
Logical Feb 2013 #35
Bodhi BloodWave Feb 2013 #50
Light House Feb 2013 #23
jberryhill Feb 2013 #30
UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #31
jberryhill Feb 2013 #32
UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #33
Logical Feb 2013 #36
DevonRex Feb 2013 #39
Logical Feb 2013 #40
Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #8
Cha Feb 2013 #24
robinlynne Feb 2013 #26
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #45
MrScorpio Feb 2013 #44
sakabatou Feb 2013 #46

Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:29 PM

1. I'd have thought that would be obvious.

.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:42 PM

2. I would have thought so also

 

but there were several people that were claiming that LE denied Dorner of his right to due process and his right to a trial.

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Response to Light House (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:49 PM

3. that single gunshot came after they set the cabin ablaze

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Response to frylock (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:55 PM

6. Yeah, OK.

 


Dorner had already made it crystal clear that he wasn't going to be taken alive and he was going to take as many LEO as he could with him before he was taken out.

The country and the world is a better place without him and I won't shed any tears for him.
My tears are reserved for the victims and the families this murderous monster destroyed.

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Response to Light House (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:00 PM

10. yeah i get it..

non sequitur after non sequitur. many of us are able to condemn dorner as well as the tactics employed by law enforcement throughout this entire event. others aren't.

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Response to frylock (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:04 PM

14. We have a difference of opinion

 

and while I may disagree with you, I do respect your right to your opinion.

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Response to frylock (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:57 PM

7. Rather than surrendering

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Response to pintobean (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:03 PM

11. Yep.

Did not want to surrender, so he killed himself.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:27 PM

47. Or being shot the instant he came out of the cabin to surrender

The San Bernadino cops were obviously thirsting for vengeance after two of their own had been shot with one killed. Listening to the tapes of the scanner you can only conclude that Dorner's chances to surrender are very close to nil. No one is there to film them shoot him down after surrendering. He'd be shot dead -white flag or no- and the department would unite around the killing "in memory of our fallen" and we would never be told the truth.

The only way Dorner could be induced to surrender, and the only way the enraged local police could be induced not to murder him if he tried, would be for the commander on the scene to impose a cooling off period by way of a more drawn out siege.

If there was a protracted siege, it is quite likely that Dorner shoots himself anyway rather than surrendering. For those who justify the frontal assault on the cabin and subsequent arson, both of which were surely meant to kill him, by saying that "Dorner wanted to end it this way" I say, law enforcement doesn't exist to give criminals what they want. They aren't there to grant mad dog killers their wishes for a final "blaze of glory" shootout. The first priority is to safeguard the lives of the public. Dorner surrounded in the cabin isn't able to threaten the public. The second priority is to bring criminals into custody to face the justice system. Christopher Dorner had constructed a legend of himself in his own mind in which he was the hero battling an evil grand conspiracy embodied in the police forces of Los Angeles - and wherever else he ran to. Because he never faced the justice system, he got to believe his own bullshit right to the end. He never had to face the fact that he was a criminal, not a hero. He stayed the hero warrior in his tale because the police were willing to play the part he scripted for them. You don't defeat legends with bullets, but by countering their fictions with facts. That happens only in a courtroom. It's done by very ordinary boring non-heroic people called judges, attorneys and juries. Dorner needed his legend destroyed by methodical exposition of facts: this is what you did Mr. Dorner - your manifesto can neither excuse nor acquit you. You're not a revolution, Mr. Dorner, just a selfish miserable fuck up and a conscienceless killer. He lost the battle, but his legend won a kind of moral victory by not being deflated and disproved to his face. This way -"ending it the way he wanted" - the legend becomes something that can survive him and spread. He dragged the cops down to his level by forcing them to meet him in battle like equals. He dragged them down and trapped them in a squalid struggle for vengeance - not totally unlike his own.

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Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:23 PM

49. You ascribe a lot of logical thought

to a psychotic mind...

Your last line gets to the essence of motive--

"He dragged them down and trapped them in a squalid struggle for vengeance - not totally unlike his own."

-----------------

I don't agree that the cops would have shot him if he came out hands up & weaponless. That would have not been a smart thing to do, even if they felt like it (which I'm sure they did).

Agreed, Dorner would never surrender. He could have run out the back even when they lit the thing. He was never going to give them the satisfaction of being captured. The cops decided to force him to make a clear choice. He did that IMO.

Not everyone wants to save themselves. People have a hard time understanding that. Should the cops have "worked harder" to save his life? Maybe. That's where they likely decided in the negative.

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Response to frylock (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:08 PM

17. If the house I was in was set on fire

I'd run out to save my life. Shooting myself in the head wouldn't be my first or even my second choice.

Chances are he could have surrendered, even after the house started burning.

Just saying.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:02 PM

25. no way was he getting out of that house alive..

either by his own hand or a hail of bullets. don't take that as an endorsement of dorner, because it's not.

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Response to frylock (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:05 PM

27. And he knew that, which is why he chose to be in power.

There is a remote chance that had he ran out and a hail of bullets hit him he could've still survived (highly unlikely, but beyond his control). So he did the last thing he could do within his control.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:09 PM

29. that is indeed likely to be the case, on all counts

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Response to frylock (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:44 PM

48. Only if the scene commander draws back and lays siege

the voices on the tape are red hot for killing. It doesn't get hotter than that.

A siege would impose a cooling off period. Dorner still probably shoots himself, but I can think of ways to wear him down. It would be better to try to bring him in than not to try at all.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:22 PM

19. we got that info about immediately with the single shot heard. i agree. nt

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 10:23 PM

38. It was obvious. Just not accepted here. nt

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:51 PM

4. Well, that and the 1,200 degree heat, or fear of dying by fire.

Police lobbed "burners" in there.

Not tear gas, not flash-bangs.

Burners.

Investigate.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:03 PM

12. Seriously?

He refused to surrender, was shooting, killing, kidnapping, robbing, carjacking innocent people...investigate what? They would have been justified dropping a bomb on him. He was in a shoot out.


Just like mcveigh, just like 911, he had excuses for his rampage.....and we should give him as much crediance as we did them.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:24 PM

20. Your wrong.

 

Burners is the slang term for that particular type of tear gas cannister, the slang comes from the fact that that CS gas causes severe burning of the mucous membrane, the eyes, the nose and any open wound, not because it will light a fire, although with that particular cannister, there is that danger.

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Response to Light House (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:06 PM

28. the slang comes from the proper name, which is PYROTECHNIC gas grenade..

as has been stated already in this thread, there are two types of gas canisters. these types are known for the possibility of igniting interior areas. the cops knew exactly what they were doing. now whether you believe the actions of the police were justified or not is another discussion, but let's get real here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101799335

from DevonRex's link below:

"The burner" was shorthand for a grenade-like canister containing a more powerful type of tear gas than had been used earlier. Police use the nickname because of the intense heat the device gives off, which often causes a fire.

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Response to frylock (Reply #28)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:39 AM

41. The term burner is also used because of the intense burning sensation it causes.

 

I have experience in this field and I well know what the slang term is.

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Response to Light House (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:03 PM

42. then you know that they have the potential to cause fires, which was the desired outcome.

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Response to frylock (Reply #42)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:10 PM

43. Yes I do know that

 

and I acknowledged that in this post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022382782#post20

As far as it being the desired outcome, I disagree with that statement and I choose to believe the Sheriff that the intent wasn't to start a fire, but it was to try to force Dorner out of the cabin, the fire was an unfortunate accident which the Sheriff admitted to.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:25 PM

21. Ordinary teargas had been used earlier. LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dorner-fire-20130215,0,5831477.story
"The burner" was shorthand for a grenade-like canister containing a more powerful type of tear gas than had been used earlier"

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 10:12 PM

37. Autopsy revealed cause of death. His own gun.

Fire investigation will reveal the truth.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:54 PM

5. He denied himself due process. nt

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:00 PM

9. Yep. (nt)

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:04 PM

13. You really think if he would have walked out he would of lived? n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:05 PM

15. Hands in the air, unarmed? Yes

But that's not what he wanted.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:07 PM

16. Well, I am sure he would have "reached for a gun" and been killed. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:17 PM

18. yes but

he would most likely have *actually* reached for a gun.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:25 PM

22. LOL, yes, like the paper delivery women or the surfer. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:53 PM

34. They weren't armed. He was and had an MO

I have no further use for you in this discussion. Good night.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 10:09 PM

35. I'll try to recover. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:15 PM

50. You are aware that those who shot at the cars were not the same department as those at the cabin nt

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Response to Logical (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:28 PM

23. He could have surrendered any time during the week he was on the run.

 

He could have called a lawyer, the media, trusted friends to escort him to any police station of his choosing, didn't have to be an LAPD station, and surrendered to police in front of his witness's, instead, he opted to continue his murderous spree and the outcome is history.

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Response to Logical (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:26 PM

30. Ah, so shoot yourself in the head to avoid getting shot


Brilliant plan!

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:40 PM

31. Spree killers do that quite often.

 

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:42 PM

32. Oh, I know that


I'm just trying to figure out the next objection from the extrajudicial killing brigade.

I had anticipated this one of the form "He had to shoot himself because the police would have shot him" because it is as fundamental flawed as it was predictable.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:45 PM

33. They've probably beat you to it.

 

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 10:10 PM

36. Yes, control your own death instead of letting cops execute you. I agree, better plan. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 10:27 PM

39. Of course, if he hadn't become a serial killer he'd be alive right now. nt

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 10:45 PM

40. Not defending Dormer at all. But that does not means the cops are not wrong. n-t

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 07:58 PM

8. I can believe that.

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:31 PM

24. He did to himself what he did to those four

other people he killed. He had plenty of chances to surrender before he got himself cornered in the cabin. He had more of a chance than he gave Monica Quan and Keith Lawrence. Fucking coward.

Dorner's last victim was Jeremiah MacKay

Sheriff John McMahon said that MacKay, 35, was pronounced deceased at the hospital. According to McMahon, MacKay was a member of the sheriff's department for 15 years and that he was married and a father to two children -- a 7-year-old girl and a 4-month-old son.

MacKay was presently assigned to the Yucaipa station but was also a detective at the Big Bear station.


Meanwhile, Riverside police held a funeral for the officer killed in last week's gun battle. CBS San Diego affiliate KFMB reports Michael Crain, a 34-year-old father of two, was allegedly shot by Dorner when the fugitive ambushed him and another officer. The second officer was wounded
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57569237/deputy-slain-in-ex-cop-shootout-has-been-idd/

Mackay interviewed last Saturday..

MacKay was interviewed by The Associated Press last Saturday while helping search for Dorner. “Everyone is here for the safety of everyone,” MacKay said, “for the safety of each other, for the safety of you.”
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/13/authorities-in-san-bernardino-say-manhunt-for-dorner-is-now-over/


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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:05 PM

26. There's only one thing. If you watch the videos, you never hear that single gun shot

in any of them. It is possible that it is too quiet to hear it because of the walls and distance. but you hear so many gun shots, and never one lone gunshot.

the scenario does make sense though.

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Response to robinlynne (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:46 PM

45. It was reported by the newsperson on scene just a few moments after the fire started. n/t

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:14 PM

44. So, burning him to crisp was just icing on the cake? nt

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Response to The Straight Story (Original post)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:52 PM

46. At least the stain is gone.

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