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Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:58 PM

Just a couple tidbits on the recent mishaps by a cruise line

In Mexican Waters...

Same line, carnival.

First one, closest port was a Mexican port, but they did not have the extensive repair facilities, going to San Diego made sense, to a point, took three days. They should have gone to port in Mexico and unloaded and taken people north by bus. Ok, I get it...those pesky port fees...the excuse, war on drugs...the army offered escort.

Nope, it was the fees and possible fines.

This one the nearest port with facilities was the Port of Veracruz, the naval port. Since they bought the Newports that thing can handle a cruise ship, tight, but it can. That was a 24 hour tow at most...

There were all kinds of excuses. It was again port fees and possible fines, I am betting.

I hope you all realize cruising is not the upper crust thing it used to be. Yes, some are expensive, upper deck cabins, but you too can cruise for 500 or less.

But at this point you could not pay me to cruise on a carnival ship.

Oh and the Mexican navy offered to do helo evacs of sick people...I hope the board of Admiralty listens to this, I sure hope so.

42 replies, 2744 views

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Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply Just a couple tidbits on the recent mishaps by a cruise line (Original post)
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 OP
CreekDog Feb 2013 #1
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #3
Safetykitten Feb 2013 #2
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #4
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #7
jberryhill Feb 2013 #5
pinboy3niner Feb 2013 #10
Aerows Feb 2013 #15
jberryhill Feb 2013 #18
democrat in Tallahassee Feb 2013 #33
jberryhill Feb 2013 #39
Safetykitten Feb 2013 #6
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #17
loli phabay Feb 2013 #23
Texasgal Feb 2013 #8
Safetykitten Feb 2013 #9
Shrike47 Feb 2013 #11
Texasgal Feb 2013 #14
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #27
loli phabay Feb 2013 #29
Shrike47 Feb 2013 #31
jberryhill Feb 2013 #40
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #19
Texasgal Feb 2013 #22
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #25
Texasgal Feb 2013 #32
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #36
Texasgal Feb 2013 #38
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #41
Texasgal Feb 2013 #42
loli phabay Feb 2013 #24
Whisp Feb 2013 #12
Aerows Feb 2013 #16
annabanana Feb 2013 #30
democrat in Tallahassee Feb 2013 #34
Whisp Feb 2013 #35
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #13
Cleita Feb 2013 #20
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #26
riverwalker Feb 2013 #28
riverbendviewgal Feb 2013 #21
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #37

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:01 PM

1. foreign ship in international waters...people don't realize how little protection they have

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:02 PM

3. It broke down in Mexican waters.

It drifted into international waters.

But yeah, folks have no clue.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:02 PM

2. They seem like going to a mall and then it being put in the water.

 

Not such a fun thing I would think.

My parents went on one in Alaska, seemed less...mallish.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:02 PM

4. I was wondering why

they did not tow the ship back to it's port of origin? I would have thought it would be easier in the long run to do so rather than Mobile and would save transporting the passengers across country to return them to their vehicles in the case of those who drove to the docks.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:06 PM

7. Mobile has repair facilities as well.

But Mexico offered safe harbor under maritime tradition.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:04 PM

5. One insane fact I learned

Is that people can go on these cruises without passports. Apparently they can be checked onto the boat in the US, get shore passes at the ports, and disembark again in the US.

Since passports have become more expensive and difficult to get, avoiding that requirement allows them to get more bookings.

Why anyone would leave the country without one astounds me, but it makes it tough to take a contingency route back.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:13 PM

10. Evokes thought of 'The Man Without a Country' nt

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:22 PM

15. Wow

I had no idea you didn't need a passport for a cruise. I wouldn't leave the country without one, either.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:28 PM

18. It goes to show how much influence they have

Wait until these passengers find out what legal rights they signed away to take the trip.

But, yeah, when the new passport requirements were imposed and the fees went up, the cruise lines got an exemption for loop cruises.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:31 PM

33. You absolutely do have to have a passport

You use it when you get on and when you get off. They use a bar code an you pass your passport under it. You cannot board without it; they also scan all luggage--it's not that different from flying. We went on a Royal Caribbean cruise last year to the Caribbean and it was wonderful--relaxing and beautiful.

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Response to democrat in Tallahassee (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:32 PM

39. That is incorrect

Last edited Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:20 AM - Edit history (1)

Only if one of the ports of call requires it for entry, or you are not on a closed loop itinerary. Also, the cruise line may require it as general policy. Carnival does not.

From the horse's mouth - US Customs and Border enforcement:


https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1139/~/documents-needed-to-take-a-cruise

U.S. Citizens on closed-loop cruises will be able to enter or depart the country on the cruise with proof of citizenship, such as an original or copy of his or her birth certificate (issued by the Vital Records Department in the state where he or she was born) and, if 16 or older, a government issued photo ID. If the child is a newborn and the actual birth certificate has not arrived from the Vital Records Department, we will accept a Hospital issued birth certificate. The United States does not require you to have a passport. (A Consular report of Birth Abroad issued by the Department of State or a Certificate of Naturalization is also acceptable.)

HOWEVER, it is possible that one or more of the Caribbean Islands on your itinerary, does require you to have a passport to enter their country. In that case, it is very possible that the cruise line will require you to have a passport to board, even if it is not a U.S. requirement. You should always check with your cruise ship, travel agent and or destination country to confirm the requirements for entry into the foreign countries you will be visiting. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) provides document requirements for entry into the United States only.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:05 PM

6. Can you imagine one of our warships picking up the people?

 

Where is the buffet?

You sleep in THIS?

Mojitos?

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Response to Safetykitten (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:28 PM

17. Any warship.

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Response to Safetykitten (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:46 PM

23. at least in a civilised warship you can get some alcohol. would hate to be on a US one with no beer

 

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:08 PM

8. Here's the thing..

Why would the Mexican Navy help when Carnival could take the Americans safely ( although uncomfortable ) back to an American port?

Rescue ain't free unfortunately as I am sure you know. Checked the price for a simple ambulance trip lately?

Nobody was dying, yes it was a horrid situation. One passenger was removed for a medical issue. The passengers will make it back to port with their lives.

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Response to Texasgal (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:10 PM

9. And completely cured of sinus issues.

 

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Response to Texasgal (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:14 PM

11. But they are going to get sued by a hell of a lot of passengers.

You would think they would try to minimize the misery. The complaints initiating suit are going to be juicy reading.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:17 PM

14. Most likely

it is definitely a "shitty" situation.. Pun intended.

At least no one lost their lives!

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:01 PM

27. This will go into it

You can bet on it.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:03 PM

29. probuably no legal standing for suits due to the documents signed and being a foreign flagged vessel

 

Would be interesting to see if any do come out but i doubt the liberian courts would be sympathetic.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:28 PM

31. Bless their hearts, Carnival's headquarters are in Florida.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:39 PM

40. It is virtually impossible to sue them


The terms and conditions of service, the Bahamian registry of the vessel, the relevant treaty on maritime claims, and several other techniques often come as a surprise to injured cruise customers. Carnival has a lot of influence over the relevant provisions of the Florida code on top of everything else.

Do follow this story if you don't believe me.

They are VERY sophisticated and experienced in avoiding claims for things like passengers being raped by crew members. This stuff is insignificant in relation to what they get away with all of the time.

It's one heck of a contract you sign when you book these things. And it's been upheld countless times.

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Response to Texasgal (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:33 PM

19. Have you heard of naval traditions?

Any time a ship is in distress, ships respond...period. Why the Reagan responded off the coast of Baja, not known, the first ship on scene was a Mexican navy ship, well outside the US it was.

And you know what? This typifies the problems we have...the tug boats ARE MEXICAN TUGS, NAVY TUGS.

Unlike the USN that privatized those...

Oh before the well explains the line snapping...five days under constant tension is outside operational parameters, so it was not a surprise. The shock is it lasted that long.

Suffice it to say...this shit from Carnival must stop, and let the inspections begin every time they pull into Mexican ports.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:44 PM

22. Oh hey, I agree that cruise ships

need more oversight. Lot's of shit happens on cruise ships.

But... unless they were sinking and human lives were at stake I cannot imagine why any Navy would try to rescue.

It would cost too much for for the passengers and like I said... No one was dying. They were uncomfortable, without for a while but they were not critical.

Why would any Navy use their recourses for a ship of people that could list back to port with no injuries?

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Response to Texasgal (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:56 PM

25. They offered to rescue

They staid near in case until this was handed over to the Coast Guard. Likely, like the last time, the ships pulled into port in the US, got free birthing, and a courtesy shore visit, oh and gas to get back home, and provisions. The tug boat probably got a new rope too.

This is part of those naval traditions. They remained on station just in case. That is the way it is. A ship that had a fire and was dead in the water is in distress, by definition.

Oh and the cost is the shipping line's concern, not the passenger.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:30 PM

32. Oh well.. there must be a reason

why the Mexican Navy didn't rush to help.



Thank goodness everyone got to shore alive.

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Response to Texasgal (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:50 PM

36. They did

They were refused insofar as the Big boys...who the fuck do you think towed them to Mobile?

I will stop here...

Suffice it to say...

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #36)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:31 PM

38. I have no idea.

Do you have a link?

And really, please stop with the dripping condensation. Just simply state your case with a link.

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Response to Texasgal (Reply #38)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:39 PM

41. Look at the Mexican media

Or a map. I am not being condescending. Serious... Our media sucks ass.

But serious, she was dead in the water 241 km from Yucatan.

There are days.

By the way, so we do not have this unpleasantness again, have a good day.

But here is a MAJOR Mexico City Paper


http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/noticias.html

Have an excellent life...

There are things outside the US, I promise.


.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #41)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:43 PM

42. No need to get uppidy

you could have stated your case far into this thread.

Seeing as that I am fluent in many languages Spanish is not one of them, so I can not make heads or tales out of your link.

Calm down Nads, we are discussing are we not?

Oh, and i have been way out of the US on many occasions. JUst an FYI.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:51 PM

24. no the shock is that the tug boat captains didnt know it was outside parameters and change up the li

 

Lines.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:15 PM

12. I don't understand the attraction of a cruise

 

Obviously many enjoy it but I just shudder at the thought of being imprisoned with a bunch of Wal Mart type shoppers.

These are the kinds of people I imagine would be the big demographic to go on trips like these. The gorgers that stuff that shrimp at the 24hour buffet till their gullets explode and their pants bust with their sinful gluttony and complain about government food stamps helping out a poor family.

If I wanted to travel I sure wouldn't want to be with the same kinds of people that I have to endure right here where I am.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:26 PM

16. I have no intentions

of setting foot on one, either - for those exact reasons. Who wants to be packed up and trapped with a bunch of people they don't know for several days? Then look at this situation - they couldn't even LEAVE the ship. That's not my idea of anything even vaguely relaxing LOL.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:07 PM

30. There are other kinds..

Like the Lindblad/National Geographic cruises.
Small ships, interesting stuff to learn, beautiful places to look at...

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Response to Whisp (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:34 PM

34. pretty snooty post here

This sounds much more like a remark a Republican will make. You don't have to "endure" anyone on a cruise--these boats are huge and even with 3,000 people on board it isn't crowded at all.
We had a wonderful time and are planning on going again.

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Response to democrat in Tallahassee (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:37 PM

35. are you insulted?

 

If you aren't a gluttonous winger that hates the lesser rich among us while stuffing greasy face, then don't you worry, I wasn't talking about you.

oiy but I really have to like what you like?

nvmd.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:17 PM

13. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, I want to be escorted ANYWHERE by the Mexican Army.

NOT

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:35 PM

20. Actually, back in the day of upper crust ocean liners, it was still risky business.

There were the second and third class sections that weren't as well maintained as the first class. The crewmen could be refugees from third world countries, especially what was called coolie labor from China back then. who were treated like slaves and sometimes they mutinied or jumped ship at a port.

The difference was that they didn't rely so much on electrical systems and many things were done manually, so even if part of a ship broke down, they could still keep things operational even though not optimal. I was on a freighter that drifted at sea because some of the systems had been knocked down by a storm. We didn't have electricity but didn't need it as it mostly kept the lights on and a few other things. They were able to get an SOS off and we were rescued in a few days and towed to port. In the meantime, we used lanterns, ate sandwiches and played cards. We could use the bathroom because the systems were operated by gravity not electricity. They had back up generators but used them for absolutely necessary operations, not lights for the eight passengers and crew.

I myself when I have the cash, which is not today, go on the Norwegian or Dutch registry ships. They keep higher standards and higher prices too, but you get what you pay for. Registry is important and when you are dealing with Liberian and other questionable registries you know they are not going to need to pass harsh inspections like they would in other countries of registry with higher standards. Of course any ship can go down in a storm, no matter how well run it is, if Mother Nature so desires.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:58 PM

26. We went on a Norwegian flagged ship

To Alaska for that reason. Registry and flagging matter.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:02 PM

28. Norway's Hurtigruten line, is the best

Bergen north to Russian border, then south back to Bergen. The most beautiful scenery in the world.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:40 PM

21. I went on a Carnival cruise in March 2012

It was a five nighter from Tampa to Cayman Islands and Cozumel.

There were no problems.


After reading about this one I do not plan any time ever to do on another cruise.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:58 PM

37. Oh we will...mebbe when we can afford it

But not on a Liberian or Panamanan flagged vessel...yes, Dutch and Norwegian are a tad more expensive, but they have a safety program.

I hope the Mexican Navy carries out the threat to do safety inspections...trst me, they are tired f this shit.

One ok, shit happens, three in three years...

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