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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:07 PM

Sheriff: Cabin not purposely burned in firefight

Source: Associated Press

Sheriff: Cabin not purposely burned in firefight

By GREG RISLING and TAMI ABDOLLAH
Associated Press

-snip-

San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said Wednesday his deputies did not intentionally burn down the cabin. His deputies shot pyrotechnic tear gas into the cabin, and it erupted in flames, he said.

McMahon did not say directly that the tear gas started the blaze, and the cause of the fire remained unclear.

A charred body was found in the basement, along with a wallet and personal items, including a California driver's license with the name Christopher Dorner, an official briefed on the investigation told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing probe.

McMahon said authorities have not positively identified the remains.

-snip-


Read more: http://www.wect.com/story/21131542/fugitive-ex-la-cop-charged-with-murder-of-officer

42 replies, 1998 views

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Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sheriff: Cabin not purposely burned in firefight (Original post)
Eugene Feb 2013 OP
Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #1
onenote Feb 2013 #25
Archae Feb 2013 #2
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #10
Archae Feb 2013 #19
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #30
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #3
GP6971 Feb 2013 #4
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #5
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #14
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #15
onenote Feb 2013 #27
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #40
Hatchling Feb 2013 #7
Light House Feb 2013 #17
onenote Feb 2013 #26
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #6
jmg257 Feb 2013 #8
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #9
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #11
marions ghost Feb 2013 #21
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #24
onenote Feb 2013 #28
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #42
marions ghost Feb 2013 #33
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #41
Cha Feb 2013 #12
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #13
joshcryer Feb 2013 #16
Travis_0004 Feb 2013 #20
justiceischeap Feb 2013 #23
joshcryer Feb 2013 #38
joshcryer Feb 2013 #37
LineLineNew Reply .
Go Vols Feb 2013 #36
HipChick Feb 2013 #18
Renew Deal Feb 2013 #39
ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2013 #22
onenote Feb 2013 #29
kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #31
jsr Feb 2013 #32
Glamrock Feb 2013 #34
Faryn Balyncd Feb 2013 #35

Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:11 PM

1. That's not real consistent with the audio so much of us have heard.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:46 PM

25. actually it may well be: "burner" is the slang term for the type of tear gas they deployed

I have no idea who was saying what, what they knew and what they meant. But it is true that pyrotechnic tear gas canisters are called "burners" and the slang term for deploying them is to "burn" them.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:12 PM

2. The Konspiracy Kooks will be all over you...

"How DARE you believe what that fascist sheriff says! WE all know the TRUTH!"

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Response to Archae (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:37 PM

10. Listen for yourself

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:27 PM

19. I have my doubts, but it's for the poster of this video.

The sound quality is poor, they could be saying what you claim, and possibly not.

Also this Youtube poster put up a news conference video with this title:

"Christopher Dorner Hoax - Body NOT Found, Despite Reports conspiracy"

It's painfully obvious this person has an ax to grind or an agenda to push.

And that agenda is to bring in a "conspiracy" when there is *NO* evidence of one.

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Response to Archae (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:53 PM

30. Ok then, listen to this direct recording of the police scanner

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:13 PM

3. In his next press conference, the Sheriff will talk about a bridge he plans to sell to the public

It connects Manhattan and Brooklyn.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:14 PM

4. I thought

they found his license outside a San Diego hotel.

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Response to GP6971 (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:21 PM

5. Apparently he had two wallets

and two ID's.

Not sure why a fugitive like Dorner would even want to carry identification, let alone two wallets both with identification.

Perhaps if he got pulled over, he would correctly identify himself to law enforcement? Or maybe he was worried about getting carded at a liquor store?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:55 PM

14. One was apparently his police or military ID in its own wallet, and

the other was a wallet with his CA DL. No mystery at all.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:57 PM

15. Right.

But I'm just wondering why he would even want to carry identification when he's a fugitive. What purpose would it serve?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:49 PM

27. You're assuming he was giving it that much thought.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:15 AM

40. Why would he NOT want to carry it?

I think he had other things on his mind - like the crazy idea that he could clear his name even after murdering innocent people.

He wasn't playing with a full deck. That's really obvious.

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Response to GP6971 (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:24 PM

7. Just watchng 10 news here in SD

Apparently the ID found locally was his military ID. A specific that wasn't made until today.

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Response to GP6971 (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:58 PM

17. What they found in San Diego

 

was his wallet badge and LAPD ID. Most cops carry their police credentials in a separate wallet designed just for that purpose, what was found at the burned out cabin was his regular wallet with his driver license.

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Response to GP6971 (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:48 PM

26. You thought wrong.

They found a picture ID. It was never said to be his driver's license and as many knowledgable people on this board have pointed out, it wouldn't necessarily be odd for him to have a separate wallet for his driver's license etc. than one for his ID.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:22 PM

6. Right, because everyone knows pyrotechnics never cause fires.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:25 PM

8. Yep...they were SO surprised when the cabin caught fire after the 7 burners

Were deployed.
One can almost hear some inflection in their voices.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:35 PM

9. Sheriff: Going ahead with the burn plan like we talked about.

 

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:40 PM

11. "I don't want to hurt you. Start walking and take your dog,"

 

From the OP link. Not a stark-staring lunatic as some here have decided.

No, I do not condone his alleged crimes. I DO condone getting real information to get to the bottom of this.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:30 PM

21. Not a lunatic ?

I prefer "psychotic," but this guy was insane, by any definition.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:43 PM

24. Psychosis means fixation upon a single thing to the excluion of all else. Someone who

 

while in hiding for his life encounters a stranger, who could ID him and get him killed post-haste, advises them to leave, that he doesn't wish to hurt them? He was in control of his value system and of his compassion. Perhaps he was at war and only with LAPD, and not everyone else? Soldiers go to war. Perhaps this was soldier stuff brought to a head. It's how he was trained.

I've studied a bit of psychology and am not an expert, but it is likely going too far to say he's insane by "any" definition.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:51 PM

28. this guy was fixated on one thing:killing cops and cop family members

which is why it makes perfect sense that he didn't kill the guy he carjacked or the women he allegedly tied up (and if I understand the timeline, from whom he first stole a car).

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Response to onenote (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:42 AM

42. Yes, but we don't know if it's psychosis or simply the morals of war.

 

I've seen enough people suffer in my day, and I've suffered enough myself, to hope that he wasn't just basically "nuts", even if it was within the guidelines of his training

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:28 PM

33. "He was in control of his value system"

--well all I can say is that his value system runs counter to what is generally considered sane. (It certainly runs counter to my value system). Any intentional killing other than self-defense or legitimate euthanasia, you could argue, is insane.

Yes it's possible he was messed up by his stint in Afghanistan, if not by the LAPD. But he declared war, basically he became a domestic terrorist. Sad that he got no help for his issues, but at the time that he started killing people he was insane (by general definition). I'd have to know more to know exactly what kind of insane. I would imagine you don't believe his killings were justified. In this case, it seems to be premeditated murder, so I don't know if an insanity defense would help. It's a tough call on that.
--------------------

Here is some discussion about the James Holmes defense:

"This is not a whodunit," said Craig Silverman, a former chief deputy district attorney in Denver. "The only possible defense is insanity."

Under Colorado law, defendants are not legally liable for their acts if their minds are so "diseased" that they cannot distinguish between right and wrong. However, the law warns that "care should be taken not to confuse such mental disease or defect with moral obliquity, mental depravity, or passion growing out of anger, revenge, hatred, or other motives, and kindred evil conditions."

Experts say there are two levels of insanity defenses. Holmes' public defenders could argue he is not mentally competent to stand trial. If they cannot convince the court that he is mentally incompetent, and he is convicted, they can try to stave off a possible death penalty by arguing he is mentally ill. Prosecutors will decide whether to seek the death penalty in the coming weeks.

Holmes ultimately could enter a plea to the anticipated dozen first-degree murder charges verbally, or his attorneys could enter it for him. Prosecutors may file multiple counts of attempted first-degree murder and other charges against Holmes, whom Aurora police say booby-trapped his apartment with the intent to kill any officers responding there.

http://www.csmonitor.com

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:41 AM

41. I agree that it's a shame the system(s) failed him and that all of this occurred :(

 

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:41 PM

12. Thanks Eugene..

So if the "body" isn't Dorner.. who is it and how did it get there?

I don't blame the police for trying to end this maniac's rampage.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:53 PM

13. Like hell they didn't.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:58 PM

16. There are two types of tear gas, pyro and gas.

You do not use pyro indoors. The officers trained to use the gas know that. They are trained to know that. And they likely did it intentionally. Whether or not they were ordered to do so I do not know and I won't jump on a conspiracy bandwagon that they might have been. All that you need to know is that the officers handling the tear gas knew what they would do. Which is precisely why they used "burners" on the police radio call. They knew the likely outcome.

They should be investigated and those who fired the tear gas should be held accountable. If they were ordered to do it they should come forward and say as much.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:28 PM

20. Even if they started the fire, its not like he couldn't have left the cabin.

If your cabin is on fire, then walk out the front door. If they would have shot him, that would be wrong, but frankly this doesn't bother me one bit. He got what was coming to him.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:32 PM

23. Unless, of course, he was injured in the gun fight

and couldn't come out of the cabin on his own. The police set the place on fire and you shoot yourself so you don't burn alive.

Seems like a plausible scenario to me since one of the reports is that the SWAT officers saw blood spatter.

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:42 PM

38. He brought scuba gear for that ocassion.

It's unclear whether he had it with him since he got caught sort of with his pants down and it was unplanned. As far as I understand the fire had hardly got going when the gunshot went off, so he probably could've attempted to surrender at that point (whether he could've done so successfully is anyones guess), but he self admittedly said he was not going to be taken alive.

I think he didn't have the gear with him and he realized that he was being hit with pyros and all his contingencies were worn out so he killed himself rather than be taken alive.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:39 PM

37. 7 pryo tear gas canisters are going to be difficult to manage.

If you've ever been hit by one of these, even outdoors, they completely incapacitate you. In any event, had he fled the house he would've been shot. I figure he killed himself but all the conspiracy theory people won't believe it even if the coroner says as much.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:36 PM

36. .



He said deputies initially fired conventional "cold" tear gas into the cabin in Seven Oaks, near Big Bear Lake, then switched to "pyrotechnic-type" rounds" known as "burners."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/13/dorner-lapd-officer-fugitive-gunbattle/1915961/

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:59 PM

18. They are lying

Audio recorded their police scanner, no matter how much they want to spin it..

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Response to HipChick (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:58 PM

39. I agree

Though there might be a liability issue here. If they "burned" the cabin, they are on the hook for the repair rather than Dorners estate.

Either way, they should be truthful and I think thy are blatantly lying.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:30 PM

22. I thought his wallet and ID was found in San Diego somewhere. Now they

are saying it was in the cabin.

So, which is it?

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:52 PM

29. Asked and answered. See above.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:54 PM

31. Who could have known that the "burners" would "burn the motherfucker?"

I mean really people, Andy Griffith was a nice character, and all that - even wise in his homespun way. But you can't expect a simple Sheriff to know the immediate future! He isn't a crystal ball with a badge.

You throw some burners into a wooden cabin, and a fire breaks out. There's no predictable causal relationship there. It's like the tides. Know what I mean? Tides go in tides go out and nobody knows why. You can't explain that!

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Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:00 PM

32. That's good enough for me!

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:29 PM

34. I ain't buyin it

Might be plausible had they not been opening fire on everything that moved the week before.

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Response to Eugene (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:32 PM

35. So he is saying that they didn't know that pyrotechnic tear gas is flamable?

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