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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:23 PM

Is it mutually exclusive to be both pro-gun rights and a Democrat?

Because it sure seems so on DU.

I know MANY fine Democrats who happen to also be gun owners, and pro-gun rights. That doesn't mean they aren't in favor of some increased control, they just do not agree with the ALL GUNS ARE EVIL refrain.

So, can you be both an otherwise very liberal Democrat, and also be pro-gun rights?

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Arrow 57 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is it mutually exclusive to be both pro-gun rights and a Democrat? (Original post)
Samjm Feb 2013 OP
Scootaloo Feb 2013 #1
dmallind Feb 2013 #3
Scootaloo Feb 2013 #11
dmallind Feb 2013 #19
Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #56
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #15
dmallind Feb 2013 #20
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #48
frylock Feb 2013 #31
Posteritatis Feb 2013 #23
GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #52
Coyote_Tan Feb 2013 #2
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #13
libtodeath Feb 2013 #4
derby378 Feb 2013 #25
frylock Feb 2013 #32
libtodeath Feb 2013 #35
Paladin Feb 2013 #46
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #49
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #5
dmallind Feb 2013 #6
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #18
dmallind Feb 2013 #21
Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2013 #7
Samjm Feb 2013 #16
get the red out Feb 2013 #8
Samjm Feb 2013 #17
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #50
Blue4Texas Feb 2013 #9
yellowcanine Feb 2013 #10
Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #12
Hoyt Feb 2013 #53
Samjm Feb 2013 #14
frylock Feb 2013 #33
arely staircase Feb 2013 #36
frylock Feb 2013 #47
arely staircase Feb 2013 #57
Ohio Joe Feb 2013 #22
Samjm Feb 2013 #38
Ohio Joe Feb 2013 #39
derby378 Feb 2013 #24
ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #26
Paladin Feb 2013 #27
Zoeisright Feb 2013 #28
frylock Feb 2013 #29
petronius Feb 2013 #30
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #34
rdharma Feb 2013 #54
guardian Feb 2013 #37
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #40
etherealtruth Feb 2013 #41
TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #42
Go Vols Feb 2013 #43
nyquil_man Feb 2013 #44
madinmaryland Feb 2013 #45
Cha Feb 2013 #51
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #55

Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:28 PM

1. Guns are a tool. They neither have rights or moral value

If someone had a room full of hammers or belt sanders, and talked endlessly of the merits and failings of every little feature of them, I'd think he was crazy. If he fell into an apoplectic, hate-filled raving rage if a variety of belt sander was deemed dangerous and taken off the market, I'd regard him as dangerous and crazy. If he maintained that his mass hammer ownership made him a more patriotic person, of stronger ethical fiber, who was protecting other peoples' rights, then I'd think he might need an extra helping of lithium.

But trade hammers and belt sanders for firearms, and suddenly he's supposed to be a normal and accepted member of society who we should respect and cherish and regard as having a more valid opinion than others.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:36 PM

3. But we are also routinely told on DU

That anyone who owns a belt sander is a homophobic sexist accessory to murder, and that all belt sanders should be removed from public hands ASAP, regardless of how responsibly the vast majority of belt sander owners use them. that's just a tad crazy too, and far more common here than your strawman that gun owners are accepted as higher-level citizens.

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Response to dmallind (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:52 PM

11. There is a world beyond DU. n/t

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:12 PM

19. Fuck yeah there is - almost all of it less to the far-left

As consistent polls of approval for Obama here and among Democrats in general show.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:32 PM

56. Yes, thank goodness! nt

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Response to dmallind (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:56 PM

15. who told us that?

be specific.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:14 PM

20. Before I do so (and I will) lets get definitions straight.

Question 1. Do you agree that anyone who owns something is by defintion for the right to own it?

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Response to dmallind (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:41 PM

48. Do I think everyone who owns a gun is an NRA talking point spewing nutjob?

Why no, I don't.

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Response to dmallind (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:47 PM

31. i think you overestimate the number of people that would ban all belt sanders..

sure, there are a handful. but the more common argument seems to be if you want to regulate some belt sanders, than that means you want to ban all belt sanders. that kind of black/white thinking seems to be predominant among the pro-belt sander movement.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:17 PM

23. But dammit, someday the government will come for us with rough-hewn, splintery lumber...

What will you do then?

*runs away, dodging thrown objects*

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:50 PM

52. But no one is trying to take his hammers and sanders away from him.

To continue the analogy:

Here, we do have a large group that wants to take away all his woodworking tools. So under those conditions it is entirely understandable that he would oppose such laws and would join organizations dedicated to the preservation of his right to have woodworking tools.

Because there are so many who really are trying to completely outlaw guns, it is natural that we would push back.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:29 PM

2. Of course you can...

 

I support all of the Constitution...

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Response to Coyote_Tan (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:55 PM

13. Would you have held the same position in 1857?

oh wait...

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:38 PM

4. Pro sensible gun laws is not anti all guns

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:21 PM

25. Sensible: codeword for "whatever Dianne Feinstein wants"

We've learned to regard the term as a sort of dog whistle. If you want to break us of that habit, show us where we've gone astray.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:50 PM

32. more black/white thinking..

fucking nonsense.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:58 PM

35. If you think the word sensible is that then you have problems I cant fix.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:39 PM

46. More Coddling Of Our Resident Gun Whiners?


No, I don't think so.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:46 PM

49. Interesting opinion on a democratic message board.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:40 PM

5. Many DUers are responsible gun owners and manage to refrain from being gun nutters.

I guess you haven't been paying much attention, or you would know that.

Did you perhaps just post this to stir up shit?

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:42 PM

6. Which doesn't stop other DUers saying they "have blood on their hands"

Did you post saying THAT was stirring up shit? Why not?

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Response to dmallind (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:06 PM

18. This may come as a shock to you, sweetcakes, but I don't read every single post on DU.

I'm good and fast at reading, but I'm nowhere nearly that good.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:15 PM

21. If I link you to it, pumpkin, will you be consistent?

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:43 PM

7. Is it fun to make up Strawman arguments?

I know you just love to do that. Probably out of a sense of inadequacy. Or maybe a mother issue?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:03 PM

16. What?

I love to make strawman arguments? What are you talking about?

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:45 PM

8. No, and I'm not pro-gun

If we can't allow debate we have no right to talk about tolerance IMO.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:04 PM

17. I agree!

Yes! That's my point. When any pro-gun post gets shot down it does not lead to rational discussion.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:47 PM

50. There are lots of opinions we don't tolerate here.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:47 PM

9. I can be liberal DEM, favor gun rights and gun control

And not like guns personally

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:51 PM

10. "ALL GUNS ARE EVIL refrain." If you want a reasonable discussion you might want to avoid that

kind of talk. It is provocative and a red herring.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:53 PM

12. a gun owner? no, 20-30% of Democrats own guns. A gun rights radical? Pretty much yes.

Last edited Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)

If your political focus and obsession is the 2A, you most likely have a rightwing perspective on many issues.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:55 PM

53. +1

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:55 PM

14. I took a hiatus from DU after Newtown

Because I couldn't handle reading the gun hating vitriol.

I'm not trying to stir up shit, it was an honest question. It seems like anytime anyone posts anything even slightly pro-gun they're shot down in flames, branded a schill for the NRA and not a "true" liberal. If we're going to accept that many liberals are gun owners too, then we need to be actively engaging these people in the discussion. Not shouting them down. They are the very people who should be leading the discussion. We can not be seen as the anti-gun party if we want to retain the gains we've made politically.

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Response to Samjm (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:53 PM

33. define "pro-gun"

do believe that you need an AR-15 with a 30 rd mag for home protection? that's not pro-gun, that's fucking stupid.

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Response to frylock (Reply #33)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:58 PM

36. i don't know what that is supposed to mean either

i am a gun owner (though I haven't shot one in years since I stopped skeet shooting when my father died). i believe in universal background checks and bans on high capacity magazines and other sensible gun control measures. I also believe in a 2nd Amend. right to keep guns for self-defense, hunting, etc.

Am I "pro-gun'?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #36)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:44 PM

47. you sound like me..

i'm a gun owner and I too believe in common-sense gun laws such as those you've outlined. to some people, any restrictions on mag capacity or wanting universal background checks makes you a gun grabber.

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Response to frylock (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:46 PM

57. it is why i don't participate much in gun control related threads

this place is extremely polarized on that issue.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:17 PM

22. Exactly what 'rights' are you talking about?

Do you want to gun down anyone that scares you?

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:35 PM

38. Um, no

Just like the vast majority of people.

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Response to Samjm (Reply #38)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:36 PM

39. Well... What kind of 'rights' are you looking for?

Please explain.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:19 PM

24. Proud, liberal, Kalashnikov-owning Democrat here

I also chair a state Democratic gun owners caucus and used to run a small pro-RKBA Democratic website.

I'm not quite as active on the RKBA front as I used to be, but if you ask many DUers who support gun control, they'll probably tell you that I'm still waaaaaay too pro-RKBA for their tastes.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:25 PM

26. "Is it mutually exclusive to be both pro-gun rights and a Democrat?"

Since most Democrats are pro 2A, I think the answer is "obviously no."

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:39 PM

27. Keep In Mind The Differences Between Gun OWNERS And Gun ACTIVISTS.


There are plenty of Democratic gun owners, such as myself. To be a full-fledged gun activist involves drinking a lot more of the LaPierre/Nugent/Palin/Stockman/Coulter/Cheney kool-aid. Daily proof of this is available in the DU Gun Control/RKBA group, or, for that matter, on this thread.....

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:40 PM

28. Yes, it is mutually exclusive.

Because guns have gotten completely out of control in this country.

And because repukes LOVE guns.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:44 PM

29. i'm not a democrat, but i am a liberal who owns guns..

and yes, I think you can be a liberal gun owner and be for common-sense gun laws.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:47 PM

30. Short answer: yes, of course it is, and many of us are

Not every 'reasonable pro-RKBA DUer' is a 'frothing gun nut', and not every 'reasonable pro-more-gun-control' DUer is in the "guns are evil grab them all!" camp...

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:53 PM

34. No, but notice how a lot of gun nuts tend to echo right wing talking points on other issues?

Go to the gun forum and attack Republicans. You'll get some backlash.

Trust me.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:00 PM

54. Go to the gun forum and attack Republicans. You'll get some backlash.

 

But it sure is fun!

Invariably you'll get some death threats too!

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:05 PM

37. yes n/t

 

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:47 PM

40. Of course you can be both. n/t

 

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:48 PM

41. A cautious no

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:56 PM

42. I've been a far left purity seeker and had blood on my hands the same day on here.

Who cares?

They cannot explain how transition power from the many to the few is liberal or why so many on the other side of this are so cool with free speech zones, warrant-less wiretaps, shitting on habeas corpus, trial by hellfire missile, and any other violation of our individual rights. I'm surprised they aren't trying to cut corners on military housing and make the troops bunk with us.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:01 PM

43. yes

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:19 PM

44. It's a big tent.

Don't be surprised to find someone in the tent who thinks you're wrong.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:36 PM

45. It is ok to be pro-gun here, but spouting pro-NRA talking points will get you a well-deserved

banning.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:49 PM

51. You have to also have common sense and know your right to own a "gun" is

not going to be taken away from you.

This is about sensible gun laws including background checks.

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Response to Samjm (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:30 PM

55. Not in my opinion you can't. But why do you care what others think?

 

Those of us who loathe and abhor guns do so powerlessly as long as the NRA sucks Congress' willing dick.

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