Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:17 PM

Hugabear (9,866 posts)

There were other options

When I first heard about Dorner being holed up in the cabin, I assumed that we would be looking at a stand-off lasting days, if not weeks. Why? Because we've seen this before. Even with Waco, the standoff lasted for quite awhile before the decision was made to go in.

In this case, they knew where he was. They knew that his goal was to kill as many law enforcement as possible. There was no need to put officers' lives in danger.

They also knew that he had limited firepower and limited ammo - after all, it would be very difficult to carry a lot of ammo and weaponry through the woods like that.

Why not establish a perimeter, cordon off the area so that nobody could get through unnoticed. Why not make use of robotics, which would allow them to check out the house without exposing anyone to danger? Why not wait until nightfall? After all, they have the advantage of night-vision/infrared/thermal vision. If he tried to sneak out of the house at night, he would have stood out like a Christmas tree. Plus, he was only one person - he'd have to sleep sometime.

Fact is, they have technology exactly for these types of things - so that they can minimize risk to human life. Once they had his location pinned down, there's no reason why they couldn't have just established a defensive perimeter and waited him out.

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71 replies	Author	Time	Post
There were other options (Original post)	Hugabear	Feb 2013	OP
For what purpose should they have waited out? What would that accomplish?	LisaL	Feb 2013	#1
So that justice could have been delivered.	NCTraveler	Feb 2013	#6
Dorner killed himself. Didn't matter how long they waited	dbackjon	Feb 2013	#70
Dykes had a child for a hostage is the difference	backtoblue	Feb 2013	#10
PRESUMABLY?	Hugabear	Feb 2013	#44
I'm not sure, but I believe they did know there was nobody in the cabin. This is a winter resort.	robinlynne	Feb 2013	#50
Fuck Dorner	sharp_stick	Feb 2013	#2
And fuck the blood-lust crowd	Hugabear	Feb 2013	#9
No, it's not hard to believe, considering the number of posts about it. On, and on, and on.	LisaL	Feb 2013	#12
I agree they had few options BUT it is right to spend some time	marions ghost	Feb 2013	#61
This is the second thread where some of the comments made me think I was on a	liberal_at_heart	Feb 2013	#13
Well I guess we are not all carbon copies of each other.	LisaL	Feb 2013	#15
it does surprise me when democrats act like republicans	liberal_at_heart	Feb 2013	#18
Oh please. This has nothing about acting like republicans.	LisaL	Feb 2013	#22
Maybe at heart	tblue	Feb 2013	#23
"if he'd gone the conventional route....	Yavin4	Feb 2013	#42
Really?	tblue	Feb 2013	#65
that's how authoritarians are programmed to think..	frylock	Feb 2013	#26
Oy. Yup.	tblue	Feb 2013	#68
I don't think a "non-violent" approach is considered when someone shoots police. when someone kills	robinlynne	Feb 2013	#29
I understand the non-violent approach appreciation	Dorian Gray	Feb 2013	#71
Once again, for the hard of understanding...	sibelian	Feb 2013	#51
Oh, disapproving of reckless police tactics means I'm a Dorner fanboy?	backscatter712	Feb 2013	#69
Agree	HERVEPA	Feb 2013	#3
So they should sit out there in the snow day and night for however long?	LisaL	Feb 2013	#5
Police routinely conduct standoffs	Hugabear	Feb 2013	#7
What does liking the job have to do with it? nt.	NCTraveler	Feb 2013	#8
I wouldn't choose to be in law enforcement. They did.	HERVEPA	Feb 2013	#20
How would waiting prevent cops from being killed?	LisaL	Feb 2013	#24
Was there any reason to expose cops to someone holed up who they knew was a cop-killer?	Hugabear	Feb 2013	#27
actually they kept from being shot. They did exactly what you are suggesting; eliminated the possibi	robinlynne	Feb 2013	#33
Stay behind something that blocks metal??	HERVEPA	Feb 2013	#35
give me convenience, or give me death..	frylock	Feb 2013	#30
not about normal. This felt like the hunt for Osama Bin Laden, as many people said.	robinlynne	Feb 2013	#36
that's just ridiculous hyperbole..	frylock	Feb 2013	#41
I live in Los Angeles. That is how it felt. POlice were out shooting people becuase they were in	robinlynne	Feb 2013	#47
kinda underscores some of the accusations leveled at the cops IMHO..	frylock	Feb 2013	#48
no reason cept that toasting him meant no long drawn out trial	2pooped2pop	Feb 2013	#4
true that	frylock	Feb 2013	#32
Dorner was a sharpshooter. Should they have surrounded the area and waited to be picked off?	randome	Feb 2013	#11
According to many on DU, sure.	LisaL	Feb 2013	#14
They probably did SOMETHING wrong at some point in their lives, right?	randome	Feb 2013	#16
this. he was a sniper and had the training to pick of Leo counter snipers	loli phabay	Feb 2013	#31
It appears they send in tear gas.	LisaL	Feb 2013	#49
First they bashed the walls of the cabin	marions ghost	Feb 2013	#63
And what?	Light House	Feb 2013	#17
I'm taking a hard line on this, sorry.	Avalux	Feb 2013	#19
I must agree with you. It was all his choice.	RebelOne	Feb 2013	#25
taking hard lines is the hallmark of conservative thinking	frylock	Feb 2013	#34
Why are you insulting me?	Avalux	Feb 2013	#59
my apologies..	frylock	Feb 2013	#60
Apology accepted....	Avalux	Feb 2013	#62
awwwwwwwwhhhhhh..	frylock	Feb 2013	#67
Yes, and I dont think he had any intention of being arrested either.	robinlynne	Feb 2013	#52
What's your expertise in this area?	JoePhilly	Feb 2013	#21
I second your post. Would very much like to know	COLGATE4	Feb 2013	#28
hind sight being 20/20 and all.....	Sheepshank	Feb 2013	#40
And accepting whatever authority tells you without question is how we should think?	Hugabear	Feb 2013	#43
your extreme/absolutism interpretation of what I said is a defensive response.	Sheepshank	Feb 2013	#46
The fact that it's been done before, and we know the technology exists	Hugabear	Feb 2013	#37
I simply want to know your level of expertise ... and you attack me personally?	JoePhilly	Feb 2013	#45
So if I'm not an "expert" then I should just STFU?	Hugabear	Feb 2013	#54
Did I say "STFU?" ... no. I did not. I asked you what you level of expertise is.	JoePhilly	Feb 2013	#55
The implication is that unless one is an "expert" in tactical response, then one shouldn't criticize	Hugabear	Feb 2013	#57
As I said, I asked, so I could better JUDGE how much credibility I should give to YOUR	JoePhilly	Feb 2013	#58
But that would've increased the chance that he'd be captured alive.	egduj	Feb 2013	#38
Did I miss something? We appear to assume that the PD touched off the house......	wandy	Feb 2013	#39
There was yet another option: the motherfucker could have surrendered	Dreamer Tatum	Feb 2013	#53
How do we know that he didn't start the fire?	EC	Feb 2013	#56
Possibly.	RebelOne	Feb 2013	#64
There is recorded audio of the police saying "burn that motherfucker". They wanted him dead.	Electric Monk	Feb 2013	#66

Response to Hugabear (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:19 PM

LisaL (22,836 posts)

1. For what purpose should they have waited out? What would that accomplish?

They waited out with Dykes for a week. He still ended up dead.

There were other options

1. For what purpose should they have waited out? What would that accomplish?

6. So that justice could have been delivered.

70. Dorner killed himself. Didn't matter how long they waited

10. Dykes had a child for a hostage is the difference

44. PRESUMABLY?

50. I'm not sure, but I believe they did know there was nobody in the cabin. This is a winter resort.

2. Fuck Dorner

9. And fuck the blood-lust crowd

12. No, it's not hard to believe, considering the number of posts about it. On, and on, and on.

61. I agree they had few options BUT it is right to spend some time

13. This is the second thread where some of the comments made me think I was on a

15. Well I guess we are not all carbon copies of each other.

18. it does surprise me when democrats act like republicans

22. Oh please. This has nothing about acting like republicans.

23. Maybe at heart

42. "if he'd gone the conventional route....

65. Really?

26. that's how authoritarians are programmed to think..

68. Oy. Yup.

29. I don't think a "non-violent" approach is considered when someone shoots police. when someone kills

71. I understand the non-violent approach appreciation

51. Once again, for the hard of understanding...

69. Oh, disapproving of reckless police tactics means I'm a Dorner fanboy?

3. Agree

5. So they should sit out there in the snow day and night for however long?

7. Police routinely conduct standoffs

8. What does liking the job have to do with it? nt.

20. I wouldn't choose to be in law enforcement. They did.

24. How would waiting prevent cops from being killed?

27. Was there any reason to expose cops to someone holed up who they knew was a cop-killer?

33. actually they kept from being shot. They did exactly what you are suggesting; eliminated the possibi

35. Stay behind something that blocks metal??

30. give me convenience, or give me death..

36. not about normal. This felt like the hunt for Osama Bin Laden, as many people said.

41. that's just ridiculous hyperbole..

47. I live in Los Angeles. That is how it felt. POlice were out shooting people becuase they were in

48. kinda underscores some of the accusations leveled at the cops IMHO..

4. no reason cept that toasting him meant no long drawn out trial

32. true that

11. Dorner was a sharpshooter. Should they have surrounded the area and waited to be picked off?

14. According to many on DU, sure.

16. They probably did SOMETHING wrong at some point in their lives, right?

31. this. he was a sniper and had the training to pick of Leo counter snipers

49. It appears they send in tear gas.

63. First they bashed the walls of the cabin

17. And what?

19. I'm taking a hard line on this, sorry.

25. I must agree with you. It was all his choice.

34. taking hard lines is the hallmark of conservative thinking

59. Why are you insulting me?

60. my apologies..

62. Apology accepted....

67. awwwwwwwwhhhhhh..

52. Yes, and I dont think he had any intention of being arrested either.

21. What's your expertise in this area?

28. I second your post. Would very much like to know

40. hind sight being 20/20 and all.....

43. And accepting whatever authority tells you without question is how we should think?

46. your extreme/absolutism interpretation of what I said is a defensive response.

37. The fact that it's been done before, and we know the technology exists

45. I simply want to know your level of expertise ... and you attack me personally?

54. So if I'm not an "expert" then I should just STFU?

55. Did I say "STFU?" ... no. I did not. I asked you what you level of expertise is.

57. The implication is that unless one is an "expert" in tactical response, then one shouldn't criticize

58. As I said, I asked, so I could better JUDGE how much credibility I should give to YOUR

38. But that would've increased the chance that he'd be captured alive.

39. Did I miss something? We appear to assume that the PD touched off the house......

53. There was yet another option: the motherfucker could have surrendered

56. How do we know that he didn't start the fire?

64. Possibly.

66. There is recorded audio of the police saying "burn that motherfucker". They wanted him dead.