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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:12 PM

You Should Be OUTRAGED by What Is Being Done to Our POSTAL SERVICE





You are probably hearing that the Post Office is “in crisis” and is cutting back Saturday delivery, laying people off, closing offices, etc. Like so many other “crises” imposed on us lately, there is a lot to the story that you are not hearing from the “mainstream” media. (Please click that link.) The story of the intentional destruction of the U.S. Postal Service is one more piece of the story of crisis-after-crisis, all manufactured to advance the strategic dismantling of our government and handing over the pieces to billionaires.


Here are a few things you need to know about the Postal Service “crisis”:


* The Postal Service is the second largest employer in the United States after Walmart. But unlike Walmart, which gets away with paying so little that employees qualify for government assistance, the Postal Services is unionized, pays reasonable wages and benefits and receives no government subsidies. (Good for them!)

* Republicans have been pushing schemes to privatize the Postal Service since at least 1996. In 2006 Republicans in the Congress pushed through a requirement that the Postal Service pre-fund 75 years of retiree costs. The Postal Service has to pay now for employees who are not even born yet. No other government agency – and certainly no company – has to do this.

* Unlike other government agencies (like the military) since 1970 the Postal Service is required to break even. Once more: the Department of Defense is not required to break even.

* While required to break even the Postal Service has to deliver mail to areas that are unprofitable for private companies to operate in. A letter sent from a small town in Alaska is picked up and transported across the country to a farm in Maine for 46 cents. While the Internet and recession have eaten into some of the Postal Services letter business, magazines, books, newsletters, prescriptions, advertising, DVD services like Netflix and many other services still depend on the Postal Service for delivery. And many people for one reason or another still send letters. In a democracy these people are supposed to count, too.

* But along with requiring the Postal Service to break even, Congress has restricted the Service’s ability to raise rates, enter new lines of business or take other steps to help it raise revenue. In fact, while detractors complain that the Postal Service is antiquated, inefficient and burdened by bureaucracy, the rules blocking the Postal Service from entering new lines of business do so because the Postal Service would have advantages over private companies. For example, Republicans in Congress forced the Postal Service to remove public-use copiers from Post Offices and even blocked the Postal Service from setting up a secure online system that allowed Americans to make monthly bill payments.





The Postal Service is a public service for We, the People, not a business. The Service is hamstrung by people who pretend it is supposed to compete and then won’t let it. They won’t help with taxpayer dollars and say it has to compete in the marketplace (again: the Department of Defense is not required to break even.) Then they give it rules that no private company could survive. Then when it gets into trouble, say that government doesn’t work, start laying people off, selling off the public assets, and saying it has to be “privatized” (so all the gains will go to a few already-wealthy people instead of to the public).


cont'





http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/14467-you-should-be-outraged-by-what-is-being-done-to-our-postal-service

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Reply You Should Be OUTRAGED by What Is Being Done to Our POSTAL SERVICE (Original post)
Segami Feb 2013 OP
Solomon Feb 2013 #1
madrchsod Feb 2013 #2
magellan Feb 2013 #3
ProfessionalLeftist Feb 2013 #5
PatSeg Feb 2013 #7
magellan Feb 2013 #29
PatSeg Feb 2013 #35
Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #54
PatSeg Feb 2013 #101
erronis Feb 2013 #46
magellan Feb 2013 #48
Grammy23 Feb 2013 #93
kelliekat44 Feb 2013 #60
magellan Feb 2013 #61
angrychair Feb 2013 #4
erronis Feb 2013 #49
Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #81
angrychair Feb 2013 #90
annabanana Feb 2013 #6
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #21
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #26
TBF Feb 2013 #98
ceile Feb 2013 #8
HomerRamone Feb 2013 #9
backtoblue Feb 2013 #10
Cleita Feb 2013 #11
xtraxritical Feb 2013 #55
SaveAmerica Feb 2013 #12
truedelphi Feb 2013 #50
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #58
geardaddy Feb 2013 #13
msongs Feb 2013 #14
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #15
alfredo Feb 2013 #16
sketchy Feb 2013 #17
eggplant Feb 2013 #18
RedSpartan Feb 2013 #19
benld74 Feb 2013 #20
Uncle Joe Feb 2013 #22
Blue Owl Feb 2013 #23
ReRe Feb 2013 #24
freshwest Feb 2013 #67
UCmeNdc Feb 2013 #25
Curmudgeoness Feb 2013 #27
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #33
Curmudgeoness Feb 2013 #40
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #41
jmowreader Feb 2013 #71
Curmudgeoness Feb 2013 #72
WCGreen Feb 2013 #28
Euphoria Feb 2013 #30
rurallib Feb 2013 #31
coluccim Feb 2013 #32
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #34
coluccim Feb 2013 #37
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #51
Doctor_J Feb 2013 #52
coluccim Feb 2013 #89
AmyDeLune Feb 2013 #78
Grammy23 Feb 2013 #95
RoccoR5955 Feb 2013 #96
beac Feb 2013 #99
coluccim Feb 2013 #100
LineLineLineLineNew Reply .
beac Feb 2013 #102
coluccim Feb 2013 #103
beac Feb 2013 #104
coluccim Feb 2013 #105
Teamster Jeff Feb 2013 #36
snappyturtle Feb 2013 #38
forestpath Feb 2013 #39
City Lights Feb 2013 #42
beachgirl2365 Feb 2013 #43
Chorophyll Feb 2013 #44
historylovr Feb 2013 #45
truedelphi Feb 2013 #47
Blecht Feb 2013 #53
tclambert Feb 2013 #56
tclambert Feb 2013 #57
rawbdude Feb 2013 #59
Rhiannon12866 Feb 2013 #75
senseandsensibility Feb 2013 #62
gulliver Feb 2013 #63
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #64
Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #65
hay rick Feb 2013 #73
marlakay Feb 2013 #66
Canuckistanian Feb 2013 #68
Hayabusa Feb 2013 #88
alp227 Feb 2013 #69
lonestarnot Feb 2013 #70
glinda Feb 2013 #74
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #76
blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #77
Skittles Feb 2013 #79
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #80
cyclezealot Feb 2013 #82
wyldwolf Feb 2013 #83
Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #84
blackspade Feb 2013 #85
valerief Feb 2013 #86
Earth_First Feb 2013 #87
myrna minx Feb 2013 #91
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #92
SunSeeker Feb 2013 #94
RoccoR5955 Feb 2013 #97

Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:15 PM

1. k and r

Yep. Good post.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:26 PM

2. yup!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:28 PM

3. It's sad, but there's much apathy about this

At least among the people I've told. And I suppose they're right: what can be done? Not enough Americans know the truth, and even if they did, the Dems don't seem interested in correcting the legislation that caused the problem. Hell, all the Senate Dems supported it at the time.

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Response to magellan (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:40 PM

5. Dems don't care. Many Dems supported the eviscerating legislation...

...and as for the public, most have bought into the propaganda that "email" has made the USPS at its current level obsolete.

Ignorance, complicity and complacency all around. What a goddamned shame.

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Response to magellan (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:49 PM

7. People are apathetic now

but they don't realize how much the Postal Service affects everyone. If it was gone, they would realize what they've lost.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:26 PM

29. Then it'll be too late to do anything but complain

...as with so many things we've lost.

The USPS is like our crumbling public school system; most people gripe about "low standards" and "overpaid employees", and take advantage of the private options, never realizing they're being manipulated into contributing to the demise of public services.

It's intentional. The media and the government are working hand-in-hand.

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Response to magellan (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:52 PM

35. Yes, very intentional

and it has been in the works for a long time. With all their many shortcomings, republicans sure know how to quietly and persistently plan ahead, until they've destroyed everything.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:13 PM

54. Agreed

That's why it's critical to properly "frame" issues from day one, and never waver...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #54)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:34 PM

101. A union postal worker said

(I think I read it here on DU) that back in 2006 they all thought this was a good deal. Very few people could see the disaster waiting ahead.

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Response to magellan (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:34 PM

46. Primarily the corporations (Fedex/UPS?)

that are in cahoots to dismantle the USPS. The media and the government may be bought and willing, but following the money leads to corporations.

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Response to erronis (Reply #46)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:54 PM

48. Without a doubt

Always follow the money. As a whole, it's rare for the media and government to act strictly out of any sense of morality or ethics. There's often a corporate payoff buried somewhere.

But my sniff test is even simpler than that: if the Repubs support it, it's bound to be bad for America.

Welcome to DU, erronis.

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Response to erronis (Reply #46)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:17 AM

93. You are on the right track with your assertions that Fed Ex and UPS are involved....

Fed EX already plays a role in the transporting of the US mail and has done so for years. I am related to someone who worked for them and it is a fact that for a long time, they have carried a portion of the mail to expedite moving it from one part of the country to another. This is not new.

Do any of you think that the lobby for Fed Ex (and they have plenty in DC) aren't actively working to get the USPS pushed further into the background so that they can slide into that slot to move our mail even more than they do? And how much do you think it will cost to send a letter when they are the only game in town? We have it pretty darn cheap now, even though some people complain about how much a stamps costs.

Fred Smith and "the suits" that now run Fed Ex are Republicans. Big supporters. They are not interested in what's good for the US. They are in it for what's good for Fed Ex and it's share holders. Fred had good intentions when he started by having a LOT of Democracy in the work place and was recognized for that. But THAT Fed EX is gone and Fred is not making all the decisions now. It is run by corporate people and by so-called "efficiency experts". They used to reward employees who figured out better ways to do the job. Now if you do not follow company rules ... to the letter....you are punished. The Fed Ex that was recognized in the 80s is long gone. Fred made his millions and whatever he intended his company to be matters little any more.

And if destroying the USPS furthers the agenda developed by the corporate leaders running the show now, they will do whatever is necessary to accomplish that goal. Another sad chapter in our history.

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Response to magellan (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:38 PM

60. There is apathy because no one is explaining the issue to people clearly. Bill Clinton could

explain tough issues to ordinary folks in a way to get them to fight for their rights. The President with just a little effort could do the same with this issue. Once people were informed about the GOP attempts to thwart voting they took action by standing in long lines and refusing to be derailed by the GOP antics. Our Post Office is almost or should be as honored as the flag. It has been and still is in large measure what keeps this nation going on many levels. Ed and Al and Rachel and Larry need to put this story out there in a way that people realize that a basic utility is about to go the way of the telephone and electric companies. We will be paying for this forever. And the one big reason the GOP hates the Post Office is because it is another of those "government" agencies that gave minorities and women a chance to enter and stay in the middle class with good pay and solid benefits. The GOP hates most of government for the same reason...affirmative action, job security, and decent benefits although they will put their dislike in other terms. They never acknowledge that most agencies at the upper levels are stacked with political appointees from previous administrations whose job it is to make work life as miserable as possible for the career Federal employees while wasting untold sums of taxpayer dollars on their own boondoggles, bonuses, exotic pay scales, and conflict of interest actions. This issue is just another issue to clobber the Fed government under President Obama.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #60)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:56 PM

61. Yes, but it's not about Obama or the Dems

It's about the right's desire to whittle the federal gov't down to nothing except what serves their needs. Having a Dem in office now just puts the enemy's face on things for them. The right have been trying to destroy every social program run by the government for many decades and go about it relentlessly regardless of who's in office.

Also, Obama could speak out about the USPS if he wanted. Other Dems with some power, like Reid, could as well. Nothing stopping them. Why don't they?

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:30 PM

4. More importantly

It is one of the few Constitutional mandated jobs of our government. If they like it or not, they can't dissolve it w/o changing the Constitution.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:57 PM

49. But they can try to starve it

It's just like a republican's unwanted baby - it's immoral to abort it outright but they're perfectly happy to let it die a slow and lingering death. Too bad their mommies didn't take one of these options.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:31 AM

81. Unfortunately, that's not true

The Constitution just says that Congress has the power to "establish Post Offices and Post Roads". (Article 1, Section 8)

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #81)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:32 AM

90. It is true

Based on past SCOTUS rulings. The Constitution states that Congress has the power to create post offices and has done that without opposition to the premise since the inception on our nation, thereby establishing the premise for its constitutionality. The SCOTUS has rulings on the powers engendered to Congress with respect to the Postal clause. Most powers derived from the Constitution are based on rulings of the SCOTUS on their interpretation of a given admendment or clause as opposed to being explicitly enumerated in the document itself. Does Congress have the same right to dissolve the USPS? That would be a question to be put to SCOTUS put I would wager the answer is no.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:45 PM

6. It was the original internet.

It brought the Country together before roads or anything else.

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Response to annabanana (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:50 PM

21. But the internet is much more susceptible to failure in delivery due to rain, snow and sleet.

The post office is the backbone of the US.

You cannot give legal notice of a court hearing or something like that over the internet because the internet is not reliable enough.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:07 PM

26. The cost of everything will go up... n/t

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:08 PM

98. When they've sold the USPS to Pitney Bowes the service will still be there -

only it will be more expensive and there will be no more union. That is what is going on here.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:49 PM

8. K&R! n/t

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:55 PM

9. I hope this gets more traction than when I posted it--great article nt

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:00 PM

10. k & r

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:02 PM

11. I am outraged, and have been for a long time, but who listens to the likes of me? eom

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Response to Cleita (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:14 PM

55. Fuck fucking republiCONs and the T party even more.

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:12 PM

12. When it's privatized will it go to the highest (no) bidder?

Which Republican insiders are they setting this up for? We've been suspecting this for a while and it's crazy to watch it happening when you've been yelling about it for years.

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Response to SaveAmerica (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:58 PM

50. Maybe I live in an alternate universe, but this is one issue

Where both parties are at fault. The Democrats had majority control of Congress from Jan 2007 to Jan 2011, and during that time, they did nothing to better the Post Office situation. (And since there was a Dmeocat in the WH from Jan 2009 to Jan 2011, they had NO excuses on this issue.)

In fact, under Nancy Pelosi, the Democrats in the House got very busy, as their very first piece of major legislation, in Feb 2007, to make the Postal rates higher for small businesses,while carving out special rate reductions for the Biggest Players, like Time Life and Amazon. They should have focused on seeing that the onerous requirement for pre-paying the USPS retirement fund was sent aside, but they too answer to their masters. And those masters are not you or me.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #50)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:23 PM

58. You got it. It is a bipartisan betrayal and has been for decades.

 

Both parties have been working to hogtie the Post Office for decades. Those Big Campaign Donors couldn't even exist if not for Congressional restraints on The People's Delivery Service.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:14 PM

13. K and R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:21 PM

14. democrats in congress and white house do not share your concern nt

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:38 PM

15. It's classic disaster capitalism. Same as they did to Hostess and other companies.

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:39 PM

16. All the Republicans want is to bust the union. They don't care what it will do to the country.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:39 PM

17. Rep. Gerry Connolly challenging Postmaster General to explain this move

Link:
http://www.news.ruralinfo.net/2013/02/connolly-challenges-postmaster-generals-constitutional-statutory-authority-to-unilaterally-eliminate-saturday-mail-delivery.html


From the Article:

Connolly Challenges Postmaster General’s Constitutional & Statutory Authority to Unilaterally Eliminate Saturday Mail Delivery
February 6, 2013

Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe lacks the constitutional and statutory authority to unilaterally implement his announced plan to eliminate Saturday mail delivery to tens of millions of American homes and businesses, Congressman Gerry Connolly (D-VA) said Wednesday. In a sternly-worded letter to Donahoe sent hours after the postmaster general announced that the U.S. Postal Service plans to end Saturday mail delivery starting in August, Connolly requested that USPS provide legal justification and documentation for the proposed action. The Virginia congressman made the same request to Attorney General Eric Holder and Postal Regulatory Commission Chairman Ruth Goldway.


“Logic dictates that when USPS and the Administration repeatedly request that Congress explicitly provide USPS the authority to reduce mail service from six days to five days, it is clear acknowledgement that, absent Congressional action, USPS lacks the statutory authority to do so,” Connolly said in his letter. For nearly three decades, Congress has repeatedly passed legislation prohibiting USPS from administratively transitioning to a five-day delivery mail schedule.


Connolly said that six-day mail delivery “remains a critical strength and competitive advantage for USPS that will enable it to grow business and bolster revenue in the long run.” He warned that accelerating a decline in mail volume could result in additional revenue losses and wipe out any operational cost savings, citing a 2012 confidential study commissioned by USPS showing that a 7.7 percent reduction in mail volume would lead to a revenue loss of $5.2 billion in the first year alone.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:44 PM

18. I am outraged too, but let's get one fact straight to avoid the other side throwing this back at us

The post office is not like a tax-supported government agency. It lives in a quasi-public / quasi-private world all to itself.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/uspsabout.htm
Until adoption of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970, the U.S. Postal Service functioned as a regular, tax-supported, agency of the federal government.

According to the laws under which it now operates, the U.S. Postal Service is a semi-independent federal agency, mandated to be revenue-neutral. That is, it is supposed to break even, not make a profit.

In 1982, U.S. postage stamps became "postal products," rather than a form of taxation. Since then, The bulk of the cost of operating the postal system has been paid for by customers through the sale of "postal products" and services rather than taxes.

The Postal Service takes on some several very non-governmental attributes via the powers granted to it under Title 39, Section 401, which include:
•power to sue (and be sued) under its own name;
•power to adopt, amend and repeal its own regulations;
•power to "enter into and perform contracts, execute instruments, and determine the character of, and necessity for, its expenditures";
•power to buy, sell and lease private property; and,
•power to build, operate, lease and maintain buildings and facilities

The USPS does get some taxpayer support. Around $96 million is budgeted annually by Congress for the "Postal Service Fund." These funds are used to compensate USPS for postage-free mailing for all legally blind persons and for mail-in election ballots sent from US citizens living overseas. A portion of the funds also pays USPS for providing address information to state and local child support enforcement agencies.


So it does get some taxes, but just a pittance.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:44 PM

19. USPS is one of a few agencies whose creation is specifically authorized by the Constitution.

Begging the question: why do Republicans hate the Constitution?

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:47 PM

20. I am and have been. I have emailed, called all types of Congress critters AND Senators

and basically get their Thank You for contacting me letter back,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:50 PM

22. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Segami.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:58 PM

23. Most folks take USPS for granted

Don't know watch ya got, until it's gone....

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:01 PM

24. I AM outraged!!!

K&R

Actually, we need to put a stop to the corporatization of all of our commons! The Post Office, Education, Health Care and the list goes on and on! Thank you Segami for posting this excellant article from TruthOut.org!!!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:29 PM

67. +1,000,000

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:05 PM

25. I am outraged but there is no organized push back by anyone.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:12 PM

27. I would just like to know how a for-profit would do the job

that the post office does. It would not be possible. There is no way in hell that there is a profit to be made from delivering mail to every house and business in the country. It can't be done.

I will tell you that, if the post office would be privatized, we will all have to make a trip to some substation to pick up our mail. And who knows how many places they would have to get your mail. You may have to drive 10 miles to pick up your mail, because you can be assured that it will not be delivered to your house.

THEN the bitching will begin.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:46 PM

33. For private business to do what the USPS does, they charge about $8.

 

That's about 1750% more Than USPS and their employees, the ones that do the actual work, make less than half their unionized quasi-governmental counterparts. The only winners in dismantling the USPS are the parasites that are bleeding this nation to death.

Happily, most of the people here on DU understand what this is really all about, and the few that are tragically deluded or pushing a hidden agenda are regularly buried in facts when they try to represent their swill as reality.

The USPS' only real problem is Congress and a series of administrations that are dedicated to doing the bidding of the parasite class, plain and simple.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #33)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:00 PM

40. What I do not understand is why a for-profit would even want this.

What could they possibly think that they would get out of it? They cannot be any dumber than I am. They have to know that there would be no profit in it. So what is the point of destroying the post office, and allowing private companies to pick up that job?

It makes no sense.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:32 PM

41. There would be unimaginable profits. One of the reasons they only charge as much as they do

 

is the very existence of the USPS restrains them somewhat.

First of all, these parasites would get to buy USPS assets for pennies on the dollar, this would be done because none of them have enough of anything to take over the job that the USPS does. As private companies they would not be under any obligation to provide universal service, so everybody that lives in inconvenient locations would not have any service at all (a fact that I'm sure the "real Americans" living in rural communities have not considered). You live in a farming community of only a few hundred spread out over hundreds of square miles? You can drive to the nearest larger community to pick up your stuff. Live in Alaska? Forget it.

Since there are only two major corporations in the field, we would see the same thing we have seen in every other industry that has been allowed to consolidate, constantly degrading service and skyrocketing prices. Collusion is much more profitable than competition. So while FedEx currently charges about $8 to take a letter across the country, that price can be expected to at least double in a few months.

The list profit of opportunities without a USPS goes on and on. Worse still would be the far-reaching and devastating effects it would have on other industries from online merchants to small businesses.

The Post Office is in a very real sense, the circulatory system for the nation. To lose it will be disaster.

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Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:58 PM

71. They only want part of "this"

The privatized postal companies called UPS and FedEx would LOVE to have the Express Mail and Priority Mail business, and here's why: I created a notional one-pound letter and got rates to ship it from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, to Fayetteville, North Carolina.

USPS:
Express Mail (overnight service): $14.10
Priority Mail (two-day service): $5.60

FedEx:
Overnight: $58.52
Two-day: $26.35

UPS:
Overnight: $39.89
Two-day: $25.08

Three guesses as to why FedEx and UPS want the post office gone.

First Class Mail? Library Rate? Publications Rate? Sorry, they don't want those and they will be happy to get rid of them for you.

The Republicans do not understand that every civilized country in the world, and most of the uncivilized ones, have public postal services.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #71)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:02 PM

72. Yeah, I understand the package business.

But I would hope that any company wanting to privatize postal services would have to take it all or nothing.

I can dream that the PTB would feel this way too.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:25 PM

28. It's in the constitution....

The Postal Clause

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:33 PM

30. I too am outraged

A day ago I was in my local Post Office waiting for the guy ahead of me to be served. He was asking for a specific kind of stamp and the clerk said that they don't currently have it and maybe in a week. He said that she told him that a week or two ago. She just nodded and said that she hopes it'll come in.
I excused myself, interrupted, and told him that these great clerks and workers are not getting the support they need to do their job. I said that the PO makes great money. I continued and said that Congress, in particular the majority party in the House, is doing their best to strangle and make ineffective our PO system. Continuing, I said that it was because the guys in power would prefer that their friends, in the private sector, would make more money out of sucking dry what great things are done on behalf of the public.
I apologized to the clerk for maybe putting her in a difficult position, but it needs to be said.
He didn't say anything to me, just walked out.
I then went up to the clerk and said, something about "even getting a stamp becomes political these days....hang in there".
Her eyes said it all.

Boy I am outraged because once again, right from under our noses &/or in front of our eyes, major rip-off is happening and no one seems to care.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:35 PM

31. I am outraged and have been for a decade

Sure would be nice if this country had media that told the fucking truth.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:39 PM

32. Paper mail should be eliminated as soon as possible.

I do realized that there are older individuals that do not have the technical abilities, but, the US could buy everyone in need a digital mailbox (computer) and come out way ahead.

Obviously, packages will still have to be delivered.

Time to move on.

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Response to coluccim (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:50 PM

34. And how is everybody in the nation going to receive actual physical objects?

 

And another point, the USPS proposed implementing roughly what you suggest, the telecom industry called their Congressional lapdogs and had it stopped.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:58 PM

37. Did you see my statement of packages needing to still be delivered?

The USPS would still receive money for "delivering" mail to us digitally.

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Response to coluccim (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:02 PM

51. That's one of the USPS' biggest problems. Hardly anybody knows how they work.

 

Any system as large and efficient as the USPS, necessarily works as a whole. Every component you take away destabilizes the remaining components. If you eliminate the infrastructure, you wipe out not only (desperately needed) jobs, you eliminate the overall capacity as well and create a cycle of self-consumption that breaks the whole creation down.

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Response to coluccim (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:09 PM

52. "Time to move on" is right

back to freeperville with you. Call Beck and tell him you were here and got bitch-slapped

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #52)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:46 AM

89. Not sure where that came from.

So you think it is OK to drive paper door to door everyday to everyone in the country?

When does this horrible practice end? It is shameful the damage we are doing to our environment.

Do you at least recycle all that "good stuff" that comes in the mail?

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Response to coluccim (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:16 AM

78. I gave my 85 year old mother a laptop for her birthday...

17", 500 GB hard drive, blu ray player. Set up all the software she would need. My brother set her up with a gmail account and a Facebook page. Number of times she has used this laptop for anything? 0, Zip, De nada! I turn it on every month or two to update all the software but she never uses it.

She prefers snail mail and phone calls to interact with people and pay bills.

She's not a technophobe or a luddite, she just feels uncomfortable using a computer. She has a Nook color and has me download books for her, she won't do it herself. I don't know why...

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Response to AmyDeLune (Reply #78)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:28 AM

95. My 81 yr. old MIL has a computer...her second one.



She uses it a little but has DIAL UP and using her computer is more like a punishment than a pleasure. She lives out in the country and probably has some cable out there but isn't willing to pay for that. Not that she can't afford it, just not willing to pay for that.

She has really screwed up her computer from time to time and has NO CLUE what she did. My husband finally got her back online after her modem died and when he was talking to her about pass words and User Names, etc. it was CLEAR she was confused about all of that. It's a wonder she has ever been able to get on-line at all!!!

Her problem is NOT fear, which in her case would be a good thing. Her problem is she is FEARLESS about clicking things, downloading whatever and then not writing it all down so we can figure out what the hell she has put on her computer. LOL

In the past she has used her computer for email, but she got it so royally screwed up that we have not gotten email from her in ages. Even after my husband got her back online, we have not gotten emails from her. I think she still attempts to look up stuff on the internet but, in my opinion, it's a huge waste of time since it takes more than 5 minutes just to load a page. Guess she doesn't know the difference but I DO and never use her computer when we visit.

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Response to coluccim (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:28 AM

96. What about contracts?

What about various papers that cannot be delivered by any other means? Contracts, insurance policies, auto registrations, photos, and other things belong on paper.

What happens when the computer fails, as all computers eventually fail?

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Response to coluccim (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:19 PM

99. It's not just "older individuals" who still rely on paper.

Many, many corporate entities still require "hard copies" of paperwork of all sorts.

And you are aware that much of the country has no access (and no reasonable hope of access in the near future) to the internet, aren't you?

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Response to beac (Reply #99)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:05 PM

100. Do you really send these by regular mail?

Of course not.

Normally it is sent certified.

Everyone is going to come up with that one special circumstance were we just have to get our precious mail.

"But what about my publishers clearing house, I may have already won..."

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Response to coluccim (Reply #100)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:39 PM

102. .

What a witty and clever rejoinder!

I notice you didn't bother to address the LACK OF INTERNET ACCESS issue.

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Response to beac (Reply #102)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:58 PM

103. What part of as soon as possible do you not understand?

Did I say shut down the USPS?

Everyone should have internet access, technology is moving rapidly.

Is 40 years enough time to get this done?

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Response to coluccim (Reply #103)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:32 PM

104. You do realize they are talking about sweeping changes to the Post Office RIGHT AWAY, right?

Please don't bother replying. You don't seem to understand the issues involved in getting internet access to remote areas, so further engagement with you is pointless.

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Response to beac (Reply #104)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 05:00 PM

105. I understand perfectly what is going on.

They want to eliminate Saturday delivery of paper mail to save money.

Check the Verizon wireless coverage map. It seems like we are pretty close to getting some form of internet access throughout the continental US.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:55 PM

36. K&R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:58 PM

38. K&R Posted to my FB page....posted one a few days ago and have

gotten only one "Like" but...............this campaign for the demise of the USPS is a travesty. imho

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:00 PM

39. K&R

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:34 PM

42. I am fuming about this!

Thank you for this post!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:38 PM

43. Makes you wonder

 

How much the corporate lobbyists for UPS and FedEx had a hand in all of this, and the politicians they bought and paid for to help make it happen?

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:45 PM

44. Indeed. And I am.

K&R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:08 PM

45. K & R

Outraged and disgusted.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:48 PM

47. Proud to be rec 100. n/t

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:11 PM

53. I'm outraged!

But many of us are experiencing outrage fatigue. So much shit to be pissed about, all of which is important.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:19 PM

56. If the USPS charged what Canada charges (63¢) or Great Britain (66¢) they'd have made billions

in profit. Of course, they're not allowed to make a profit. They have to try to break exactly even. If any private company (especially a monopoly) had their per piece costs rise like the Post Office has, they'd certainly pass that on to the customer. But Congress won't allow it.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:22 PM

57. To be perfectly fair, I think the Defense Department could break even, at least the Navy could

if we allowed them to go into business as privateers. We'll show those Somali pirates what REAL pirates can do.

Wait, hundreds of billions in swag every year? OK, maybe not.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:31 PM

59. I'm outraged, and WE can do something about it!

I've started a petition on the Whithouse website. Granted, it's not perfectly written, but the intent is to get the President's attention on this, and have him bring it out to the public, who will, hopefully, in turn, apply pressure to their representatives and senators. See if we can embarrass this crowd into doing what's right. Signing isn't enough. We need 100,000 signatures in 30 days, which is up on March 9th. If you can post, tweet, email, do whatever occurs to you, would be a great help. I sent an email to the website of the Postal Workers Union, but if anyone out there has membership, or knows someone, I think that would be a GREAT help! The link is:
We all gotta stick together!

Thanks!

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Response to rawbdude (Reply #59)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:04 AM

75. You forgot to post the link...

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:06 PM

62. K and R for the truth.

Great OP!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:10 PM

63. Another Dem issue to capture rural voters.

We have been wondering what we can do to get rural voters. Why not save the post offices in these small rural towns? It's simple. The mail must go through, and everyone in the country, urban or rural, should have access to it.

As usual, no one needs to ask who is trying to screw the little guy. It's the Republicans again. They have no sense of history, no sense of duty, and no loyalty to the rural postal customer.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:23 PM

64. It's a real shame. nm

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:28 PM

65. None of what you say negates the fact that the USPS isn't used as much, any more.

Many people send e-mails, texts, pay bills online, send internet gifts that are direct delivered by UPS, my bank sends me statements via email, etc. I am one. I rarely use the USPS.

It is sad, but I don't see a way out, unless the USPS starts an online service of some sort. The world is changing. It's called progress by some, but whatever it is, there has been a change and looks like the change will continue.

It was this way with other industries in the past. The horseshoe business went out of business, once cars were in wide use. You can't keep a business floating just because it employs people. It has to provide a needed service.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #65)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:04 AM

73. You're echoing the MSM.

That's part of the story (the smaller part, actually) and the only part they are interested in telling. In fact, the Postal Service has been able to reduce its workforce enough through attrition to compensate for reduced mail volume. What they haven't been able to do is meet the health care pre-funding mandate imposed by the Republican lame duck congress in 2006. That law, The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA) requires the Postal Service to pre-fund future healthcare benefits for 75 years- within a 10 year period. The Postal Service is mandated to fund in advance health care for employees who have not yet been hired or, in many cases, even born yet. No other entity, public or private, operates under this burden.

Yes, the Postal Service should be expanding into providing other services, and no- congress will not allow them to do so. The real, very depressing story of USPS is simply sabotage.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:35 PM

66. I am outraged

and I made sure my republican rural postal worker knew the true story of why her hours got cut. I really liked her too. She ended up losing my route and years later got a full time one next town over.

But I got her to agree what republicans did was wrong in making the pension the way they did. I went over it step by step with her.

That is how we can make a difference, tell republicans who work for post office what really happened, then they will tell friends and family and the truth will get out.

Its not going to get out by news media because the people we need to change are all watching fox!

We need to in person explain the truth to republicans because this is one issue they agree with us on, they don't want to lose service. A lot of them order stuff by mail to rural areas.

Most of them are so swallowed up in brainwash about unions they can't hear it at first, explaining that it is a profiting company until unfair rules put upon it changes the conversation.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:34 PM

68. Not to mention that the postal service is MANDATED by the Constitution

And that all the major courier services are NOT interested in taking on daily mail services, especially to UNPROFITABLE areas like rural regions.

It's time that the USPS be considered a SERVICE to the country, not a PROFIT-MAKING enterprise, for which it was NOT intended.

And the analogy to the military (which, by the way, is NOT constitutionally mandated) is perfectly apt in this case.

I support the USPS and it's unionized work force!

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Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #68)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:25 AM

88. What's that the Republicans and conservatives always say?

Amend the Constitution? Well, why don't they try to follow their own words and just attempt to get the country to pass an amendment that would ban the USPS.That would go over so very well... For us.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:42 PM

69. I've posted 2 related stories to threads on LBN...

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:45 PM

70. I fucking am! I AM outraged!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:39 AM

74. K & R n/t

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:09 AM

76. K&R from a postal spouse...

 

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:17 AM

77. Phony, ginned up "crisis" to push an agenda.

Shock Doctrine, baby!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:58 AM

79. I am outraged

I have soft spot for the USPS; when I was growing up as a GI brat it was too expensive to call my grandparents but we wrote back and forth for decades

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:23 AM

80. Compare Walmart's pension plan to the Republican imposed pension funding on the USPS:

The Republicans want to strangle government and advance their corporate buddies:

According to the Center for Responsive Politics, FedEx Corp is the 21st largest campaign contributor in the United States. The company has donated over $21 million since 1990, 45% of which went to Democrats and 55% to Republicans. Strong ties to the White House and members of Congress allow access to international trade and tax cut rebates as well as the rules of the business practices of the United States Postal Service. In 2001, FedEx sealed a $9 billion deal with the USPS to transport all of the post office's overnight and express deliveries.

In 2005, FedEx was among 53 entities that contributed the maximum of $250,000 to sponsor the second inauguration of President George W. Bush.

During the first three months of 2010, FedEx spent nearly $4.9 million lobbying the federal government (UPS, FedEx's main competitor, spent $1.6 million on lobbying over the same period), a 4% increase from the $4.7 million spent during the last quarter of 2009, but more than twice what it spent on lobbying during the first quarter of 2009. -- Wikipedia


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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 07:23 AM

82. We are

Don't forget.. This bill that raped the Post Office was authored by Daryl Issa. But, our former Democratic hero, Henry Waxman signed on as a co -author.. So, who do we call to express our outrage.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 07:58 AM

83. A recent experience

I'm late to this thread but let me give you my experiences with mailing and shipping items.

I run an Amazon/eBay business on the side. Last year I shipped over 4000 packages - all by the USPS. NOT ONE of those packages were lost or late.

Now, I've gotten two packages in the last month from UPS. The first one was lost and UPS had to track it down. It contained my birth certificate so I was pretty upset.

The second package from UPS arrived two days late.

Perhaps these are isolated incidents. Who knows? But I had no problem strongly educating a woman at the post office a week or so ago who was complaining about the long line.

"what they need is some competition," she said loudly so everyone could hear.

I made several points to here that are also in the article above and then said:

"they do have competition... UPS, FedEx, and if you think your can get you stack of envelopes somewhere cheaper using one of them, they both have stores close by."

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:23 AM

84. I'm not. Advertisers will find other ways to get their crap to me.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:32 AM

85. I've been outraged for years!

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:59 AM

86. kick

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:00 AM

87. Nah, it's so much easier to make another outrage thread about cruises

and blame those who take them as being part of "the problem"

Doing something about the USPS, well that requires actually doing....something.

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:33 AM

91. K&R

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:47 AM

92. The elite overlords are going to tighten the noose until we object. Outrage is hard to sustain. nm

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:27 AM

94. I AM outraged. This is a microcosm of what is happening to the entire U.S. nt

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Response to Segami (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:32 AM

97. I am plenty outraged!

What other entity has to fund three generations' pensions?

Here's a proposal. Suppose the company that "gets" the postal duties, has to fund the same 75 years' pensions? It would only be fair.

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