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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:45 AM

For those of you who want me to lay off the Pope: "Let Me Show You"

From ABC News:

“Father Marcial Maciel pushed my hand onto his penis. And I didn’t know anything about masturbation,” Juan Vaca, who was first abused when he was 11 years old, told ABCNEWS. “And he says, ‘You don’t know how to do it. Let me show you.’ And he gets my penis himself and starts to masturbate me. I was in shock.”


more from ABC - after reading this, you WILL cry:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020607141945/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_Vatican_coverup_020426.html


A taste of Marciel’s relationship with John Paul and the Vatican:

Called to accompany Pope John Paul II on his visits to Mexico in 1979, 1990, and 1993, Maciel was also appointed by the Pope to the Ordinary Assembly of the Synod of Bishops on the Formation of Priests in Circumstances of the Present Day (1990). … The golden anniversary of his priestly ordination was celebrated on 26 November 1994, with 57 Legionary priests ordained on the anniversary’s eve. … Maciel collaborated extensively with the pope John Paul II, either in person or through members of his organization, the Legion of Christ. …

He received many donations from Mexico’s richest. Maciel and the Legion gave the Vatican money, and some claim that this kept for years the Church from acting over allegations of sex abuse by Maciel.

Investigative journalist Jason Berry wrote in an April 2010 article in The National Catholic Reporter, “the charismatic” founder of the Legion of Christ “sent streams of money to Roman curia officials with a calculated end … Maciel was buying support for his group and defence for himself, should his astounding secret life become known.”


Note the word “charismatic” above. That aspect of Maciel’s persona figures heavily in his success as a seducer, his success with the Vatican, his ability to acquire great amounts of money, and ultimately the lawsuit. In 2001, the Ratzinger-headed CDF was given a mandate to deal with the growing sex scandals in the Church, which means Ratzinger was in charge of all investigations of Maciel.

Bottom line on Maciel and the Vatican — Maciel was a prolific sexual abuser, incredibly charismatic, who led the “Legion of Christ,” a highly-favored organization of acolytes (priests and seminarians), many of whom were his victims. His group had a knack for getting the rich to give them money, much of which Maciel passed to the Vatican. John Paul was a big fan of Maciel (no, there’s zero indication of anything sexual). Cardinal Ratzinger was in charge of “dealing” with the Maciel scandals, along with all the others.


***********

make sure to mark this on you calendars:


Unless the defense gets the RI Supreme Court to issue a stay by February 15 — the article is dated January 25 — the information in the lawsuit will be made public. It’s not the result of the suit that matters (though it matters to the niece). It’s getting at the info filed with the lawsuit, including discovery and all depositions to date.

Yep, someone did mention February 15. Just around the corner.




much more plus links:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ri-judge-delays-unsealing-legion-christ-docs
http://americablog.com/2013/02/did-the-pope-resign-to-avoid-facing-a-major-about-to-break-scandal.html



for those who have been abused and especially for recovering Catholics (like myself) who have been abused, i promise to dig, and dig, and dig.
kp

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Arrow 71 replies Author Time Post
Reply For those of you who want me to lay off the Pope: "Let Me Show You" (Original post)
kpete Feb 2013 OP
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #1
pansypoo53219 Feb 2013 #2
xxqqqzme Feb 2013 #27
panzerfaust Feb 2013 #32
NYC Liberal Feb 2013 #13
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #14
Union Scribe Feb 2013 #55
NYC Liberal Feb 2013 #58
me b zola Feb 2013 #3
progressoid Feb 2013 #4
calimary Feb 2013 #43
barbtries Feb 2013 #65
calimary Feb 2013 #68
barbtries Feb 2013 #70
leftieNanner Feb 2013 #5
calimary Feb 2013 #48
PNW_Dem Feb 2013 #6
truedelphi Feb 2013 #35
calimary Feb 2013 #46
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #7
calimary Feb 2013 #47
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #50
meeshrox Feb 2013 #8
rurallib Feb 2013 #9
BlueManFan Feb 2013 #10
thucythucy Feb 2013 #11
freshwest Feb 2013 #25
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #12
Go Vols Feb 2013 #18
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #23
GiveMeFreedom Feb 2013 #28
amuse bouche Feb 2013 #41
Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2013 #15
texshelters Feb 2013 #16
malaise Feb 2013 #17
KauaiK Feb 2013 #19
Uncle Joe Feb 2013 #20
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #21
Union Scribe Feb 2013 #56
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #67
AndyTiedye Feb 2013 #22
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #24
freshwest Feb 2013 #26
Swagman Feb 2013 #29
liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #30
Swagman Feb 2013 #31
Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2013 #33
Marrah_G Feb 2013 #51
Bernardo de La Paz Feb 2013 #62
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #34
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #36
lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #37
Flying Squirrel Feb 2013 #38
forestpath Feb 2013 #39
amuse bouche Feb 2013 #40
lolly Feb 2013 #42
Initech Feb 2013 #44
October Feb 2013 #45
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #49
SfromCanada Feb 2013 #52
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #53
Wednesdays Feb 2013 #54
alfredo Feb 2013 #57
Kennah Feb 2013 #59
Kennah Feb 2013 #60
MichaelHarris Feb 2013 #61
TheManInTheMac Feb 2013 #63
hue Feb 2013 #64
chervilant Feb 2013 #66
Dawson Leery Feb 2013 #69
yurbud Feb 2013 #71

Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:41 AM

1. The RCC has run the longest on-going criminal enterprise the world has ever seen.

Thousands of years of all types of abuse, and those that still defend this horror need to re-examine just who their donation money supports.

Would they directly pay a bribe to a man that molests children because he says he can get you into heaven if you keep paying?


As long as the money keeps flowing, the RCC will protect and defend pedophiles and rapists, bottom line.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:01 PM

2. butbutbut they are protecting the CHURCH.

shit. protecting their money source. that HBO doc, how did they get away w/ this shit so long.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:54 PM

27. The men, in that

documentary are heroes as far as I'm concerned.

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Response to pansypoo53219 (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:41 PM

32. Remember the years and millions the FBI spent looking for Satanistic Child abuse?

 

Seems like the time and money could have been better spent looking at black-collar crime.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:58 PM

13. If it were a political party instead of a church, how much support would it have here?

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:10 PM

14. Lots.

Authoritarians gravitate to each other.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:13 AM

55. Depends. Does the Vatican have drones? nt

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #55)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:07 AM

58. I don't know; do they?

Wouldn't be anything wrong if they did. They support much worse policies.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:04 PM

3. K&R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:09 PM

4. Keep digging.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:58 PM

43. Keep digging, kpete.

For all of us, lapsed Catholics or not.

As one of those lapsed Catholics, I want this FULLY exposed to the fresh air and sunlight. We need some serious disinfectant here. This is hideous and disgusting. And my parish priest recently turned to me wondering why the church wasn't packed every Sunday. SHEESH... Willful ignorance and denial run deeper than the GOP, for damn sure.

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Response to calimary (Reply #43)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:46 AM

65. why call yourself lapsed?

i like the word recovered. lapsed implies a fall of some sort. you've only seen the light

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Response to barbtries (Reply #65)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:24 PM

68. Yeah, well, you make a great point.

I must tell you, barbtries, I saw this headline on MSNBC that said the next pope is expected to be more conservative.

It's just like politics here. The biggest idiots among the bad guys say the problem is they need to be MORE CONservative. And That. Is. NOT. It!!!!! That is NOT the way we need to go. The frickin' republi-CONS want to go MORE CONservative. And at the same time, the country and the demographics and the enlightenment is all moving the other way.

The Vatican going MORE conservative is NOT the way to regain the confidence of Catholics like me. And there are lots of Catholics like me. A more CONservative church won't do anything but just drive people like me away permanently. I'm already so alienated as a woman, as a mother, as the mother of a son, and also as a progressive. I just despair sometimes.

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Response to calimary (Reply #68)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:55 PM

70. don't despair.

if you long to worship in a church, there are certainly many out there that would likely satisfy your need. have you looked for instance at perhaps an episcopal church? i believe they are based on catholicism and some of them are very liberal, i think.

can't say too much. i don't do church at all and i don't believe in gawd. but lately even i have considered attending a unitarian church, because i acknowledged that i am comforted by ritual. i believe in spirit and unitarians welcome even atheists.

to your point, yes. republicans and the catholic church (not to mention evangelical christians, fundamentalist muslims and jews) are on the wrong side of history. the common thread i am seeing is sexism. these are patriarchies. some of them do not really even acknowledge the humanity of women and girls. well too bad for them because we are here, we are human, and we will not be oppressed forever.

i'm sorry your decision to leave the catholic church has caused you grief. truthfully i think you should be feeling so much better after getting that yoke off your back.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:13 PM

5. Keep At It Kpete!

Until the Catholic Church is really held responsible for the vile things they have done to humanity, nothing will change.

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Response to leftieNanner (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:04 PM

48. Welcome to DU, leftieNanner!

Glad you're here. I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with kpete, and others who are trying to get to the bottom of this. The Catholic Church MUST be held accountable. NOW. YESTERDAY. YEARS AGO.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:15 PM

6. I love Sinead O'Connor

I love Sinead O'Connor's beauty, courage and talent now more than ever...

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Response to PNW_Dem (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:16 PM

35. She was so far head of the curve.

For months after she burned the Pope's picture on stage at Saturday Night Live, people couldn't believe or understand why the young Irish woman would do that.

And she went from being a near Super Star to someone who depended on her "cult following" for support.

But she has hung in there, and her career has survived. And as fr as her political views on the Catholic Church, she is vindicated.

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Response to PNW_Dem (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:02 PM

46. Me too. That was a hugely courageous stand to take. And she took so much shit for it.

JP2 was untouchable. Oh, Polish pope! Oh he brought down the Soviet Union! Oh he should be canonized. Oh blah-blah-blah.

Um... I don't think so. I'm a lapsed Catholic myself and this whole thing is a mortal sin and a disgrace and an abomination. It makes me ashamed of the religion I was born into and studied and was taught to revere. I just don't want any of it anymore. It's a criminal enterprise. "Suffer the little children." Indeed. And so they did.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:16 PM

7. Eff the pope, the Vatican, the Cardinals and all the corrupt creeps in that miserable institution.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:03 PM

47. Dayum I love those penguins, Arugula Latte!

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Response to calimary (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:40 PM

50. Thanks! Glad you like!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:22 PM

8. Keep digging!

I don't understand how anyone can begin to defend such a vile institution when it has been shown (worldwide) to cover for and enable abusers. As someone who was sexually abused as child by a "god-fearing holy" man (Baptist, not RC, though), this shuffling of priests must end and prosecutions must continue.

Strength and courage to you!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:43 PM

9. I for one appreciate it. Keep digging, buddy!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:51 PM

10. But If You Have the Temerity To Criticiize These Criminals

then you are just "anti-religion." Know what, this is the epitome of why millions, and growing, rational human beings are increasiningly willing to admit to being anti-religion. Badge of Honor as far as I am concerned.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:52 PM

11. KP--you are doing more good,

and are doing a better job protecting children than entire legions of the so-called "holy" men who perpetrated and enabled these atrocities.

Truly, you are a treasure and an inspiration.

Anyone who loves or cares for children should be grateful for the work you are doing.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:43 PM

25. +1

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:52 PM

12. Keep digging! Excuse me while I help!

For some reason, I've become a huge fan of Tim Minchin...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:27 PM

18. Louis CK learns about the Catholic Church

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:59 PM

23. Awesome!



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Response to Go Vols (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:13 PM

28. Oh Shit!

Nothing held back.

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:27 PM

41. This is

a documentary....right?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:20 PM

15. Dig away!

As someone who was raised Catholic and came to understand the depravity of the RC heirarchy's response to their pedophile priests, I say it's long past time to burn the Vatican down and jail the criminals.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:22 PM

16. Not to mention the Popes horrendous record on aids

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:24 PM

17. Expose the criminals

Rec

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:42 PM

19. kpete - don't lay off

The Catholic Church as damaged more people under the name of religion. Don't lay off.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:47 PM

20. Keep up the good fight.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:49 PM

21. I'm surprised the Pope's apologists here haven't made more noise.

Maladict's actions are awfully hard to defend...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:15 AM

56. I imagine the Catholics here have learned

(as most religious DUers have learned) that talking about their religion is simply an invitation to being mocked and bullied.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #56)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:21 PM

67. Defending child molesters and their enablers is an invitation to be mocked and bullied.

And rightly so.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:53 PM

22. Do You Think This is Why Maledict is Resigning?

Presumably Pope Maledict knows what will be revealed when that stuff goes public, or has a pretty good idea.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:27 PM

24. Thank you for exposing the hypocrisy and crimes of the Catholic hierarchy.

I think we need to also talk about the fact that prior to the cover-up of the sex crimes of the Church, there was a more active movement within the Church to support economic justice. That still exists, but is not as strong as it was prior to the cover-ups.

I hope that the openness about the sex problems in the Church will permit the clergy and active lay members to focus more intensively once again on the social issues that Jesus cared about -- feeding and housing the poor, caring for the sick, ridding religion of its obsession with wealth and property.

Thanks for your work.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:48 PM

26. They should be afraid:



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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:09 PM

29. but what about the thousands of nuns and priests who don't abuse

and who 'tend to their flock' and do amazing works of charity in Asia and Africa and South America ?

The priests and nuns who get paid little and live in one room with a single bed and devote their lives to a church, albeit one that has covered up abuse, but nevertheless devote their lives to just helping others and who on so many occasions have been tortured, raped, abused and murdered simply because they were helping others.

What happens to them in all of this? They certainly far outnumber the abuser but It seems they are the forgotten ones.

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Response to Swagman (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:19 PM

30. the hierarchy of the church weren't thinking of them when they were busy covering their butts.

I suspect they rarely think about the poor nuns and monks who actually take a vow of poverty and service. Much like the corporate world has a 1% and 99% so does the church. The hierarchy is the 1% and they will do anything to protect their power and wealth. The 99% of good nuns and monks who serve the poor are nothing to the hierarchy.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:41 PM

31. true

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Response to Swagman (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:44 PM

33. They need to find a better church.

Cause this one ain't changing anytime soon.

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Response to Swagman (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:49 PM

51. They are willing participants in a system that they know is corrupt

So is every catholic who gives money to the church.

Perhaps all that money and effort could be used to help people while not propping up a destructive organization that preys on the very people it claims to watch over.

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Response to Swagman (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:09 AM

62. All the good charitable work could be accomplished without a "church". nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:49 PM

34. I'm sorry that you were abused. I hope you heal fully and quickly.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:20 PM

36. I hope no one here is giving you a hard time about this. nm

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:37 PM

37. Oh-boo hoo. The all-knowing, infallible, all-powerful catholic church can't take the truth!

Don't talk about their secret country and secret banks or their secret societies that allow child rape. It's not nice to talk about these things! Don't be so mean to the wittoo bitty hewpwess church.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:38 PM

38. FWIW... I was raised Catholic

I left the church (and organized religion altogether) for reasons which had nothing to do with the abuse scandal, long before it surfaced. However, a young minister who had been very popular at my high school and whom I had personally liked, quite charismatic, by the name of Dennis Kemp (I see no need to hide his identity), was permanently barred from active ministry by the Vatican in 2010 (over 20 years after I graduated.) The fact that I personally knew a member of the clergy who apparently had "seriously inappropriate behavior toward minors" (plural) according to the Seattle Times article, makes me wonder just how widespread the overall abuse problem was and may still be. The knowledge that, had I been abused by him, it would probably have been covered up back then and he would have been free to continue that behavior in the same capacity elsewhere, is galling to me and I strongly support what you are doing.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:41 PM

39. K&R The Pope is the face of evil.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:08 PM

40. I am truly proud of myself for escaping

this evil enterprise years ago. They use fear, intimidation and shame, especially on children to indoctrinate.

It's horrifying that they got away with so much. Too bad there is no hell for them to burn in

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:51 PM

42. But, but...

Without the church's moral guidance, how will I know what to do with my reproductive organs?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:59 PM

44. Keep digging. If you think Pope Ratz quit for any other reason you are sadly deluded.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:01 PM

45. I left the church years and years ago.

Before such abuse was "known" or public.

I was not personally abused, but it made me so sad to see your statement, kpete. I'm so sorry.

I certainly met my share of cretins and misogynists within the church. It wasn't that hard to leave.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:05 PM

49. The Pope belongs in prison.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:51 PM

52. k & r

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:19 PM

53. K&R

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:11 AM

54. K & R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:31 AM

57. Read "Constantine's Sword" by James Carroll.

Corrupt to the core.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:05 AM

59. Anyone think Hitler will react to the Pope's resignation?

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Response to Kennah (Reply #59)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:11 AM

60. My bad. He has.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:41 AM

61. I'm just wondering if

his retirement/golden parachute includes a children's bouncy castle.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:15 AM

63. Why would you lay him off? He's resigning at the end of the month.

Save the severance pay.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:36 AM

64. more on systematic abuse of children in orphanages...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:50 AM

66. We survivors know

that child sexual abuse (hell, ALL child abuse!) is often vigorously denied or diminished (it wasn't THAT bad, was it?!) by family and friends.

In fact, who among us HASN'T heard the adjuration, "get over it -- it's all in the past!"

Countless adherents of religious mythologies are struggling to deny or diminish the horrific history of the RCC. Many will find ways to continue in their blissful ignorance. Consequently, I sincerely hope that you (and others like us) will continue to post information about these criminals.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:28 PM

69. Ratman was given the Papacy (in part) as a kickback for his

role in covering up the sex abuse scandals.

He took an oath to protect the church, and he did just that.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:02 PM

71. someone once said a respectable religion is a cult plus time, but the Catholic Church is working

hard to prove that wrong.

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