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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:45 PM

For some of us, there's no escape from the Vietnam War

(X-post from Veterans Group)

The latest trigger for the war and its trauma is the news that chickenhawk Ted Nugent has accepted an invitation from an idiot RWNJ congressman to attend President Obama's State of the Union address.

I recently discovered that Ted and I reported for our draft physical the same year--1967. Ted's experience was more memorable than mine (http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/nugent.asp).

The Army didn't start out so bad. After Basic, Leadership School, Advanced Infantry Training, and training troops they sent me to Infantry Officer Candidate School for 6 months and I came out a 2nd Lieutenant at 19. At 20, as a 1st Lt., I was leading an Infantry rifle platoon of the 101st Airborne Division in the jungles of Vietnam. I'm only half-joking when I say that the instant hot chocolate my Mom sent me from home helped me face those challenges.

My war ended when I caught AK fire that blew away half my teeth and jaw and put a baseball-sized hole in my shoulder. The Army promoted me to Captain, and after 18 months in the hospital they retired me for partial disability.

Many years after the war I returned to Vietnam three times. I laughed--and cried--with former allies and enemies--ARVNs, VC and NVA. I have more in common with them than I ever will with chickenhawk wannabe-Rambos like Ted Nugent.

For my brothers--and sisters--who served, who may also be triggered by the latest news, just remember one thing and it wil be okay: FUCK Ted Nugent!



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Reply For some of us, there's no escape from the Vietnam War (Original post)
pinboy3niner Feb 2013 OP
catnhatnh Feb 2013 #1
Wait Wut Feb 2013 #2
whathehell Feb 2013 #13
Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #3
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #4
Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #7
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #11
yardwork Feb 2013 #18
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #21
yardwork Feb 2013 #22
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #23
Light House Feb 2013 #29
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #35
Light House Feb 2013 #41
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #44
Light House Feb 2013 #46
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #50
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #77
unapatriciated Feb 2013 #39
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #42
daybranch Feb 2013 #64
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #67
Light House Feb 2013 #25
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #26
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #81
indepat Feb 2013 #31
Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #90
Light House Feb 2013 #5
whathehell Feb 2013 #12
Light House Feb 2013 #17
whathehell Feb 2013 #62
gasser85 Feb 2013 #65
whathehell Feb 2013 #72
Light House Feb 2013 #101
whathehell Feb 2013 #104
Chorophyll Feb 2013 #6
Zorra Feb 2013 #8
stevenleser Feb 2013 #9
Downwinder Feb 2013 #10
Denninmi Feb 2013 #14
Light House Feb 2013 #19
Denninmi Feb 2013 #27
Light House Feb 2013 #34
The Wizard Feb 2013 #94
pinboy3niner Feb 2013 #36
Cheviteau Feb 2013 #61
yardwork Feb 2013 #15
ReRe Feb 2013 #16
Wait Wut Feb 2013 #20
Uncle Joe Feb 2013 #24
DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #28
HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #30
Victor_c3 Feb 2013 #86
renate Feb 2013 #105
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #32
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #33
JustAnotherGen Feb 2013 #37
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #38
logosoco Feb 2013 #40
timdog44 Feb 2013 #43
11 Bravo Feb 2013 #45
4bucksagallon Feb 2013 #68
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #47
The Wizard Feb 2013 #95
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #100
grantcart Feb 2013 #48
markmac Feb 2013 #49
pinboy3niner Feb 2013 #51
Hulk Feb 2013 #52
jaysunb Feb 2013 #53
Tree-Hugger Feb 2013 #54
OldRedneck Feb 2013 #55
pinboy3niner Feb 2013 #57
duhneece Feb 2013 #92
pinboy3niner Feb 2013 #110
kurtzapril4 Feb 2013 #56
pasto76 Feb 2013 #58
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #59
Iwillnevergiveup Feb 2013 #60
beemer27 Feb 2013 #63
madokie Feb 2013 #66
retrogal Feb 2013 #84
The Wizard Feb 2013 #96
SCVDem Feb 2013 #69
Medical Speaking Feb 2013 #91
trof Feb 2013 #70
Dem_in_Nebr. Feb 2013 #71
dicksmc3 Feb 2013 #73
The Wizard Feb 2013 #98
ZRT2209 Feb 2013 #74
heaven05 Feb 2013 #75
panader0 Feb 2013 #76
BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2013 #78
SaveAmerica Feb 2013 #79
AverageJoe90 Feb 2013 #80
cliffordu Feb 2013 #82
Light House Feb 2013 #106
cliffordu Feb 2013 #108
Cha Feb 2013 #83
grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #85
The Wizard Feb 2013 #97
Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #87
MADem Feb 2013 #88
deutsey Feb 2013 #89
The Wizard Feb 2013 #93
Squaredeal Feb 2013 #99
mountain grammy Feb 2013 #102
malthaussen Feb 2013 #103
Taverner Feb 2013 #107
pinboy3niner Feb 2013 #109

Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:51 PM

1. You K&R'd it there...

you can K&R it here. K&R it,Cat!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:55 PM

2. That just pisses me off even more.

YOU should be sitting in that seat. Fuck Ted Nugent!

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Response to Wait Wut (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:30 PM

13. +10 n/t

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:06 PM

3. My 18-year-old cousin was killed in Vietnam in1968

I share your disdain of Ted Nugent.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:10 PM

4. My 19-year old brother

in 1969...but it was his second tour. He reported for duty in 1967. I'd rip out Nugent's throat with my teeth if I could get my hands on him.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:15 PM

7. I hear ya.

My cousin joined the Marines in December 1967, died in combat in Quang Nam in August 1968 from small arms fire. Absolutely tragic to lose these boys so young.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:27 PM

11. My brother died in Binh Long Province in June of 1969.

My mother never really recovered...I'm not sure any of us did, but it hung like a black cloud over her existence until she died in 2004.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:36 PM

18. I'm sorry for your loss.

As the mother of sons, I can't imagine anything more painful than losing a child.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:44 PM

21. Thank you...

It was the horror of it....He came home in a double sealed casket...That meant the only thing inside was either an empty uniform or a plastic bag containing body parts. She never got to see him.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:45 PM

22. That is so sad. I'm so sorry.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #22)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:51 PM

23. It was long ago...

a lifetime in fact. But I made it quite clear to my son, after 9/11 when he and his frat brothers were all gung ho,...I would introduce a sharp stick into his eye before I'd let his fight a war for a bunch of old men who wanted nothing more than to protect profits for another bunch of old men. I can be very determined....

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:04 PM

29. Good for you.

 

Don't let your son fall for that rah rah patriot bullshit. Keep him safe and alive.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother, I have a daughter who is a lifer in the Army and has 4 tours under her belt in Iraq and Afghanistan and me and my wife hardly recognize her as the sweet, gentle girl that went off to war.

These wars have really taken away our daughter and replaced her with someone we don't know.


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Response to Light House (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:15 PM

35. Vietnam did the same....

I imagine all combat veterans are changed in ways we can never really understand. While I have unlimited respect for your daughter and the others who serve with her, I also know the anguish you must feel when you see those changes. Not to mention the agonies of worry you must endure. When I think of our soldiers and their families I find I don't have much of a problem with drones.... I simply hate war and despise the mostly chicken hawk types always looking for a new one.

My son is now 30 years old and a practicing tax attorney...that phase is well past.

I will think of you often, please know I will be hoping for the safe return of your precious daughter.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #35)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:24 PM

41. Thank you for your kind words.

 

I'm happy that your son is past that phase, and I thank you for your kind words for our daughter. She is stationed at Ft. Irwin in CA, training new soldiers for desert combat, not far from were we live, so we get to see her more often.

I don't think she'll be deployed to a combat zone for awhile now because President Obama is drawing down the combat forces in Afghanistan, Thank god for that.

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Response to Light House (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:34 PM

44. Hallelujah!

We must continue to 'encourage' him to do so. It's why I like the idea of Chuck Hagel as Sec't. of Defense. I don't think the generals will be able to bully him.

I do hope your daughter will come to terms with what must be awful memories. Peace, blessed peace.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #44)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:42 PM

46. I'm happy with Chuck Hagel as SecDef also,

 

he will be a good SecDef.

With regards to our daughter, she has a father who's been there, done that, so I can relate to her and help her with whatever demons are haunting her, and she has a mother who dearly loves her.

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Response to Light House (Reply #46)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:45 PM

50. Sure sounds that way...

Love, understanding and time can work miracles. I'll be rooting for all of you.

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Response to Light House (Reply #46)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:58 PM

77. Good news from the Prez

when he said they'll (34K) be home by the end of the year, I thought of you, your wife and daughter. I am so happy for your family.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:20 PM

39. My son had just been dischared from the Marines a few months...

Last edited Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:49 AM - Edit history (1)

When idiot son went into Iraq. He was all set to re-enlist, he was still gung ho at the time. I asked him who he wanted to raise his son, he decided it should be him and that ended his talk of joining back up. Sorry about your loss.




oh yeah Fuck Ted Nugent.

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Response to unapatriciated (Reply #39)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:29 PM

42. I'm so happy

you were able to clear your son's head. I have nothing but respect for those who serve...but wars fought for the profit of a few drive me crazy.

Absolutely Fuck Nugent and all the chicken hawks in congress as well!

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:16 PM

64. you are so right.

As a combat veteran of Vietnam and Cambodia, I told my son something similar. I told him if he even dreamed of showing up, drafted or not, I would break his leg and take him to Canada. We continue to fight too many wars to protect the oil industry and other American economic interests around the world. Thanks for your post.

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Response to daybranch (Reply #64)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:32 PM

67. You're welcome. Good to know we're not alone huh?

I'm glad you understood the spirit of my post. I have the utmost respect for our enlisted men and women...and none whatsoever for those who so callously abuse their willingness to serve their country.

I'm so happy you returned from Nam, I hope, all in one piece.

If he had still wanted to enlist I would have taken him to a Veterans Hospital. Perhaps the most heartbreaking thing I ever saw was when I had to take my cousin's husband to the VA in Valley Forge, PA... there I came face-to-face with a young man, maybe 20, no more than 22, with no legs and only one arm. I was 21 at the time....The image has never left me. All these years later, and now tears are rolling down my cheeks....

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:58 PM

25. I was in Binh Long Province in June of 69.

 

If you have no problem with it, what was his name?

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Response to Light House (Reply #25)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:01 PM

26. I will mail you, if that is okay?

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:01 AM

81. I don't think any mother gets over the loss of a son or daughter in such a terrible way....

....it just rips her heart out and jumps on it. There's no closure...no final words...no holding of a hand while the life slips away...just sudden traumatic loss.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:07 PM

31. My eldest first cousin was killed in 'nam in 1968: his widow still grieves him and I

still miss my boyhood hero.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:37 AM

90. I had two friends who had older brothers in Vietnam

One made it out alive, the other one came home in a box.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:11 PM

5. Both Teddy and Mitty are chickenhawks.

 

While men like us were serving and dying, those 2 were doing everything to avoid serving.

Great post and I salute you, and welcome back to the world.

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Response to Light House (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:29 PM

12. Oh, yes, and don't forget Five Deferrment Dick!

Mr. Cheney who just called President Obama's picks "2nd Class People".

Great post...I remember the Vietnam war well..My cousing came home with an honorable

discharge for having a war-related nervous breakdown, and my friend's brother, in 1968, was killed

at just 19 years of age.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:36 PM

17. I forgot about 5 defer. Dick.

 

Why is it that those who push the hardest for war, are the ones who did everything to avoid war?

Sorry to hear about you cousin and your friend's brother.
Hope after all these years, your cousin has come to terms with his war experience.

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Response to Light House (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:52 PM

62. Oh, no, you can't forget "the dick", and apt name if ever there was one!

In answer to your question, I'd guess they're unprincipled cowards, or "chicken hawks" if you will

Thanks for your kind words regarding my friend and cousin. I haven't been in contact with

this friend for many years, but last I heard, she was coping we;l, and my cousin has

recovered very well, being a happily married father and grandfather.

Glad to make your acquaintance, Light House.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #62)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:17 PM

65. There's a reason

His mom named him "dick".

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Response to gasser85 (Reply #65)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:09 PM

72. LOL!

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Response to whathehell (Reply #62)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:20 AM

101. Pleased to make your acquaintance also.

 

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Response to Light House (Reply #101)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:18 PM

104. Thanks, Light House!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:13 PM

6. K&R

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:18 PM

8. K & R


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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:23 PM

9. I hope there is a special place in hell for chickenhawk POS's like Nugent. nt

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:26 PM

10. My BIL did two tours in Vietnam

to keep from going back to Korea.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:33 PM

14. Can I ask a question, only tangentially related?

How do Vietnam vets think of our current economic involvement - many factories, for example, make export goods for the U.S. market, everything from seafood to flower pots to clothes. I bought a couple of suits recently that were made in Vietnam because I like the style, price, and quality. I know, it weakens US labor, but honestly, unless you go custom, I saw nothing out there made here, they all came from overseas or Mexico.

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Response to Denninmi (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:41 PM

19. Can't speak for him,

 

but this vet has no problem with goods made in Vietnam, I got over my hatred of all things relating to Vietnam along time ago.

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Response to Light House (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:01 PM

27. It probably wasn't the majority of the Vietnamese who waged war against us.

I guess I would say better we have good relations, staves off future trouble.

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Response to Denninmi (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:15 PM

34. I think that good relations with former combatants

 

is always a good thing.

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Response to Light House (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:45 AM

94. Those who hold a grudge

against the Vietnamese are living in a fantasy world where they see themselves as unrecognized war heroes rejected by normal Americans who know the war was a scam to separate Americans form their taxes and humanity.
As Muhammad Ali mused after getting his draft notice. He had no quarrel with the VC. They never called him a nigger.
War for profit is immoral, always has been, always will be.

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Response to Denninmi (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:19 PM

36. The U.S. has good relations with Vietnam

I remember seeing a ton of knockoff goods there when I visited. Usually they were perfect, but I did see one souvenir T-shirt in a market that had a Reebok tag in the neck and an Osh Kosh B'Gosh print on the front.

You could buy a tube of "Crest Toothpaste" that looked like the real thing--but it wasn't.

I wouldn't have any problem buying Vietnamese-made goods here, but with so many workers hurting here I try to be more conscientious about buying American.

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Response to Denninmi (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:45 PM

61. Not exactly an empty question...

...but one I'm sure is often asked. They were fighting for their homeland, good or bad. They had just kicked the French out when we showed up on their doorstep. I was there in 1959 (yes, 1959) and again in 1965 & 1968. Never considered them as an enemy of the US.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:35 PM

15. Thank you for your service to our country.

Nothing sums up the current Republican Party better than this invitation to Nugent.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:36 PM

16. Wouldn't it be great....

... if they put Viet Nam Vets all around him, and then when he heckles PO, they would be justified in knocking his lights out, once and for all? Shut that MF up! That TN is still alive is an actual miracle.
And a snappy salute to you, pinboy3niner, after this kiss...

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Response to ReRe (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:43 PM

20. ohshit.

You almost made me choke on a cookie!

That is the best idea I've heard in a long, long time!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:56 PM

24. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for sharing, pinboy3niner.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:01 PM

28. I'm proud to rec this one, pinboy3niner

We are the lucky ones.

FUCK Ted Nugent!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:07 PM

30. I've argued over the value of my service with my brother who is also a VN veteran.

Give him a couple beers and he will pretty soon after launch into how the war was unpopular but He Served America AND protected our values...including things like the rights of Ted Nugent to be a loudmouthed asshole self-proclaimed chickenhawk.

My service was completely unrelated to Ted Nugent. It was completely unrelated to serving America.

I served because when my draft number came, unlike Ted Nugent I didn't see myself as exceptional. I served because of the values I had been raised to respect. I was raised to shoulder the burdens I was handed, and I couldn't pass my draft call on to someone else.

It's as simple, and as dumb, as that.










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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:25 AM

86. One of your statements really summarizes quite well my feelings about my service

"It was completely unrelated to service America"

I was willing to serve our country and to protect our freedom and all that good stuff, but my service in Iraq was totally unrelated to any of that. Had the war in Iraq and my experiences been somehow related to actually protecting ourselves or protecting our freedom or even providing freedom and opportunity to the people of Iraq I might actually have an easier time dealing with my memories of the war.

I always feel uncomfortable when people thank me for my service. I never know what to say or how to react. If most people knew what I did or what the wars in the Middle East were really like, I doubt they'd be thanking me for my service and what I did over there.

So much of what I did in Iraq was senseless. The way we reacted and the way we dealt with things weren't about anything other than just protecting ourselves long enough to get home. When you are hit by an IED and your first reflex is to shoot everything around you, you aren't exactly projecting the image of fighting for Iraq and its people. It is more of you fighting against Iraq and its people. As was the culture promulgated within the Army and my unit at the time, never once did I treat the people of Iraq with any semblance of reverence. I did what I had to do in order to make it through the day and to make it to the end of my deployment. With an attitude like this, no wonder we weren't able to accomplish anything constructive in Iraq. The army sure did a great job killing and maiming plenty of Iraqis, but our "successes" stopped there. I never knew anyone who received a military award because they did a kick-ass job building a school or overseeing an infrastructure improvement.

I constantly wish that I could do over again my deployment to Iraq. I was a 24 year old Infantry Platoon Leader and, in hindsight, I was anything but a real leader. I did what I was told to do with complete callousness. I received a stellar officer evaluation report based on my ability to react violently. The truth is "leading" in combat is too easy to do. Leading and demanding restraint when appropriate isn't easy to do and I failed miserably at that.

I can't speak intelligently for anything relating to Vietnam, but I suspect that a similar attitude may have been in place (i.e. force protection > people of Vietnam) during that war.

I volunteered for my military service and, even though I had no idea what I was getting myself into, I did it to myself. I often hate to even compare my experiences to those of veterans like you who were drafted and forced into a war. I don't mean to cheapen anything that you guys experienced.

Anyways, this is starting to turn into a rant and I better end it here. I hate to pull the focus away from the Vietnam war and the struggles of your generation.

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Response to Victor_c3 (Reply #86)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 12:30 PM

105. thank you for sharing all of that

If you're uncomfortable with people thanking you for your service, I hope you don't mind if I thank you for your willingness to serve your country. The war was mismanaged and stupid and pointless--or at least that's the impression I have, and you certainly know the details of all of that far better than I could ever guess at--but you volunteered because you wanted to serve your country, you went to Iraq because that was what was asked of you, you did there what you were asked to do, and you did what you had to do to survive. Any blame for anything that you regret lies with the warmongers who threw servicemen and -women into a combat situation without adequate supplies and without adequate planning, not with 24-year-old you. The instinct to survive is probably the strongest instinct there is. I'm glad you survived and I'm very sorry for any emotional or physical effect the war had on you.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:13 PM

32. Salute to you for your service and agree 100% on TN. nt.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:14 PM

33. K&R!

 

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:19 PM

37. You just got a couple of hearts from me

I'm the daughter of one of you fine men that served - dad lost his battle from cancers caused by the 'agents' in August of 2011. He was also an Obama precinct captain in 2008.

I'm so offended that this man gets to sit there. It should be be you. Not him.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:20 PM

38. FUCK Ted Nugent!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:24 PM

40. Thank you for sharing this story.

I can't imagine how your mom must have felt when she sent that hot chocolate! So glad I never had to be that mom.

Tonight, as I watch the SOTU, if nugent comes on the screen, I will give him the one-finger salute in your honor!

Peace!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:31 PM

43. My friend in Florida

served with the 3/26 Marines in Sept of 67 near Comp Thien, at a place now called Leatherneck Square. Earned three PHs plus numerous other awards and ribbons and was sent to a hospital in Hawaii after only 6-7 months active duty. I don't question his choice to serve, as I don't question those who in good conscience chose not to serve. But I say F ted nugent also. My point in this is to complain about the way our government treats these service men now that they have come home. My friend still suffers from his wounds and agent orange syndrome. Because of this he has had to endure two open heart surgeries, a carotid surgery and multiple knee surgeries. He can't walk with out the aid of a walker, and the government has him on 10% disability. And he is only 64. Shameful. Who pushes for veteran benefits - John Kerry. Who votes against them - John McCain. Point made.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:41 PM

45. Happy to rec this el-tee.

Remember, my brother, it don't mean nothing, especially the Nuge. And absolutely ... FUCK TED "CHICKEN-HAWK" NUGENT!

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #45)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:33 PM

68. I have to say....

There it is. This whole Ted "the diaper" Nugent story is something we can hang around the the chickenhawks necks......... well at least until he is dead or in jail by April.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:43 PM

47. We should have given Ho Chi Minh aid after the French retreated.

But he was a 'socialist', so it wouldn't have flied.

Now if Ho stated that he loved fascism, we would have made him a saint.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:54 AM

95. Part of our invasion and occupation

was politicians were still under the influence of the McCarthy era where they could lose their seats for being soft on communism. Remember, they blamed Harry Truman for losing China to the communists, as if China was an American possession.
Several years ago a man who once held state wide office in Texas became President under unusual circumstances. He then prosecuted a war for cheap political gain.
Tough on communists or tough on terrorists, the results are the same. The Tonkin Gulf incident and Iraq's WMD program were fabrications to facilitate war for all the wrong reasons.

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #95)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:40 AM

100. And we had to kill the guy we set up with our money and guns in both circumstances

Our economy is on a permanent war footing, we need endless wars to sustain it.


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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:44 PM

48. Wars never end, only the fighting stops.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:45 PM

49. God Bless pinboy

And yeah, FUCK TED NUGENT!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:07 PM

51. The response here is overwhelming--and my heart goes out to all those who lost someone

We count the war dead and wounded and forget the family casualties and their everlasting pain and grief. Especially younger siblings who were simply left out when people came to express condolences to the parents but had no idea what to say to the children who had lost a brother or sister. These are the kinds of things that have life-long effects.

All of these consequences are felt on all sides in war. It's a shame that, going in, our leaders never appreciate the real cost of what they are doing--or, in most cases, they wouldn't do it.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:21 PM

52. I salute you! I was infantry, 25th Infantry - 1969 Cu Chi, 11bravo

I salute you.
We were there together - maybe not the same year, but in the same toilet bowl of death and destruction. I was only there for about three months before my radio man stepped on a trip wire and sent us both home - after a month recuperating in Japan so I wouldn't resemble walking dead when I returned Stateside, and another month or two in Madigan General at Fort Lewis.
I was lucky - damn lucky. I caught shrapnel in my legs, arms, face, and chest - with a punctured lung. I lost a little meat, but I got my health back, and I'm being served by the VA medical now - second to none - and I receive a small disability pension. I'm just thankful to be home and alive. My most memorable moment in many, many years was when the nurse leaned over my bed and said the words, "soldier, you're going home!" My God, I cried. I knew I was going to die. Everyone around me was dying.
We went in to my platoon with 8 "old salts", and we were 13 "fresh bloods". After about two weeks, I had already seen us lose another 5-10 in our platoon, including our medic and second lieutenant. He was there for less than a month before he was killed.
ALL for nothing. All for nonsense - the same as Iraq. No purpose, just killing and being killed.
I salute you. I salute the 59,000 that died, and the hundreds of thousands that served and bare the memories of that terrible time.
I'm with you.....FUCK NUGENT, the coward! I still, to this day, can not forgive those that ran. I served because I felt we had to. Those that ran let someone else take their place. I'll never get over that. But this coward, was worse than a running coward. And he has the audacity to speak of his cowardice as though it is unimportant and meaningless? May he rot in hell one day, where he belongs - along with dick cheney.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:31 PM

53. Yup. FUCK TED ! and all the rest

of the yellow belly cowards like him.

And like you ,Brother, I have more respect for the VC and NVR than these low life assholes.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:37 PM

54. Thank you for your service

Fuck Ted Nugent!

Signed,

The daughter of a Vietnam Vet

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:39 PM

55. AMEN, BROTHER.

Platoon leader, 1st Infantry Division, 1969-1970.

I went back to Vietnam in 1994 while still on active duty (I retired at 28 years in 1995) as part of a US government delegation. Met a couple of NVA who operated in the same area I was in, same time I was there. Eerie, but, that was a long time ago. We drank a lot of beer together and agreed drinking beer is better than fighting each other.

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Response to OldRedneck (Reply #55)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:55 PM

57. Welcome home, brother

We may have gone back to VN at the same time.

On that visit, I was invited to a coffee plantation at Ban Me Thuot where I had lunch with a group of former ARVNs, VC and NVA--plus one Vietnamese draft dodger. All of the Vietnamese jokingly called him "the monk" because he had hidden out at a Buddhist temple during the war, pretending to be a monk to avoid being grabbed up for military service by all of the factions that were conscripting.

At one point during the lunch I said that I wish we could have been laughing and joking like this back then, instead of killing each other. At that point we were all in tears...

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #57)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:28 AM

92. I feel so good knowing you went back, reconnected

You made some kind of full-circle & I just feel good about that.
Even as I remember those like my husband Mike who lost both legs at Chu Lai, spent 7 mos at Letterman Hospital in San Francisco, got his bachelor's degree in wildlife science...then committed suicide in 1998, sending our son into a self-destructive nose-dive, landing him in prison for drugs (no stealing, no violence-just drugs). How do you measure those costs? (rhetorical question!)

I'm glad you & I 'connected' on DU.

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Response to duhneece (Reply #92)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 04:52 AM

110. I wish Mike could have gone back, too

We likely spent some time on the same floor at Letterman, after he came down to the 4th floor--which was divided between amputees and facial casualties.

I discovered not long ago that his Chaplain amputee friend there was from my battalion in Vietnam. Small world...

You're part of our family, too. The war's casualties extend far beyond the statistics on KIAs and WIAs.

I'm sorry we lost Mike. We've lost so many along the way, and I'm constantly amazed that I'm still here. I don't know why I am. But I remember the epilogue from 'Platoon':

.... But be that as it may, those of us who did make it have an obligation to build again. To teach to others what we know, and to try with what's left of our lives to find a goodness and a meaning to this life.


I try to do what I can, but it never seems enough to truly honor the memory and the sacrifice of those we lost...

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:49 PM

56. Thanks for your service, Pinboy3niner, and the rest of you.

My best friend's brother was killed in Vietnam in 1968, she was very close to her big brother, and I was close to both of them, so when he was killed it was like a death in my family. He, too, got the double sealed coffin.

My cousin Jim was also in Vietnam, and he came home alive...but not well. He started drinking a lot and got very mean and racist, which was something he never was before he went to Vietnam. He also had throat cancer, which he fought off. I think it was from all the herbicides he was exposed to in the jungle. He married a nurse who also served in Vietnam, she committed suicide, I believe right in front of him, and after that he slowly continued to drink himself to death. After he lost his license for a DUI, he would drive to the bar on a riding mower. He died in 1990. I really do think Vietnam killed him.

He was such a nice person, an excellent horse trainer, a guitar player and a gentle man.

Hate is a wasteful emotion. It usually eats the hater up inside, so I don't like to say I hate people, but fuck it...I wouldn't piss on Ted Nugent if he was on fire.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:27 PM

58. brother hot chocolate aint no joke!

I was lucky to be in the 48% of the 4ID that got mid tour leave in 2003. Yes I came home and ate cheeseburgers and pizza and slept a lot. But the second thing I did was buy some thermoses. This was december and it was getting colder. The day I went back and cought up with my squad it was cold. 30s or something but when you live outside and the daytime temps are still pushing 90, thats cold. My squad was on perimeter security for our work site. Around 0100-ish. Climbed into the truck. Sat there and then said 'hey you guys want some hot chocolate?"
my buddy hix says "man thats not even funny"
"for real man", as I pull the thermoses out of my pack and enough cups for everyone. That was a genuine morale boost and pick me up.

Im glad you made it home. Nugent makes me FURIOUS as well. Thank you for being part of the tradition I serve now.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:35 PM

59. Ted Nuget is a piece of chicken hawk slime!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:36 PM

60. What a thread, pinboy3niner!

Unselfish valor is what I see from those who are able to relate their experiences in Vietnam.
Whatever the circumstances of your service, you are all heroes.

Ted Nugent? I still think the best outcome tonight is that he characteristically makes a complete jackass out of himself and disrupts to the point where he's unceremoniously frog-marched out before he's even seated. And let's have plenty of film crews on hand to record that event. That would include FAUX which would later report how unfairly Nugent was treated.

He should not step one foot into that chamber.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:00 PM

63. Another Nam Vet Here

This chicken hawk is a waste of space and oxygen. The bad part about his being there is that he will get more media coverage. The gun control people and the pro gun people CAN reach some reasonable compromises. This fool will just shoot his mouth off and screw up all the progress that has been made on the gun issue. He is also stirring up the Vietnam issue all over again. Many of us have worked out ways to deal with our emotions, and have learned to tolerate and get along with both the gung-ho, and the peace activists. Along comes someone like this clown, and reopens a bunch of old wounds. If he gets wound up and starts to rant, the congress critter that invited him might realize what a blunder he made in inviting this pathetic wannabe.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:22 PM

66. Soldiers may leave the battlefield with their life

but he'll live that battlefield the rest of his life
I've come to accept that.

Thanks for trying to make sense of it
Oh yes, FUCK TED NUGENT

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Response to madokie (Reply #66)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:52 AM

84. Your post says it all

Soldiers may leave the battlefield with their life

but he'll live that battlefield the rest of his life


This thread has brought back so many memories. Memories of watching the men or should I say boys marching down the road towards the flight line heading out to Viet Nam. Watching out our living room window in awe of these men and not fully understanding war. Living on base at Glenview NAS.

A cousin who was on the front line during two tours and then wanted to go back. Recently I told him how much of a hero he was to me as a child and as an adult.

Another cousin lost her VN husband a couple of weeks ago and he had agent orange. His body is still at the funeral home while they try to figure out what to do with him while he deserves a full military burial.

Watching the coffins coming of the planes. So many.

I could go on but it was a sad era and now we have once again the coffins coming home.

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Response to madokie (Reply #66)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:08 AM

96. Roger that madokie (NT)

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:48 PM

69. Semper Fi My Brother

USMC 73 - 78

Fuck Nugent and his groupies!

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #69)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:01 AM

91. Vietnam 1966-1967

Semper Fi Marine.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:48 PM

70. Aye Men!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:55 PM

71. Fuck Ted Nugent??????

No thanks!! I'll pass .. ..

Sorry, couldn't resist!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:29 PM

73. Yes, I agree, FUCK TED NUGGET!!!

Anybody that has to shit their pants to avoid the draft isn't much of a so-called "PATRIOT"!!! They need to take ass-wipe Nugget and put him in a foxhole in Afghanistan with a true PATRIOT. Let's see who makes it out alive!!! Hang in there PINBOY3NINER...

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Response to dicksmc3 (Reply #73)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:13 AM

98. Patriot is Republican code for

ignorant bigot.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)


Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:01 PM

75. +10000

back atcha

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:03 PM

76. K and R

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:27 PM

78. my ex boyfriend was a Vietnam vet

Marine Recon and a lot of other special impressive things. He was there for two years, right at the very end, '74-75. I think.....

He was crazy brave...judging from his stories and stuff he stayed pretty crazy....
He was also a serious alcoholic with plenty of the typical unbearable alcoholic behaviors, includi g hair trigger rage that got very scary.

He didn't have any disabling physical damage from the war but what a mess emotionally. I don't know which came first, the alcohol or the war, but either way, the damage was more than love could overcome.

It's been over for a while but it's still not easy for me; I have a tough time moving on. I wish it hadn't turned out the way it did.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:28 AM

79. It made me so mad to read his words, it's bad when you know

some of them have filled out the forms to request deferment. That's shady and worse than a coward. But to crow about purposefully working to not get sent to Vietnam and disrespecting those who did and the guys who were already in at the time is more than disgusting.

Thanks for writing this, I know you helped more than one Veteran who didn't know what to say or do after reading this fools words.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:40 AM

80. Pinboy, thank you......

For your valor and honor during your service.

What irks me about Ted Nugent more than anything else is just how much of a hardcore warhawk he is, while he never, ever served ANY combat duty.

TBH, I have no qualms with those people who legitimately opposed, disagreed with the causes of, the war(in fact, I applaud them, regardless of whether or not they dodged the draft), but the Nuge didn't dodge the draft because he was anti-war, but because he was a stinking coward and a jackass....indeed, he was a chickenhawk. Fuck 'im.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:10 AM

82. I wanna piece of teddy boy's ass in a little vial around my neck.

He's a chickenshit scumbag who needs to be beaten into a coma.

Teddy:

Fuck you, you snivelling shitstain.

Mebbe I'll start going to gun shows where scumbag draft dodgers are teaching 'skeels'

We can have a talk. Mebbe teddy can shit his pants again. For realz this time.

Word.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #82)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:49 PM

106. I want his ears on a necklace.

 

Those that served will know what I'm talking about.

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Response to Light House (Reply #106)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:55 PM

108. I know -

Precisely.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:17 AM

83. thank you for your OP, pinboy..

brought me to tears..

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:33 AM

85. For the entire motherf*ckin country there is no escape from that war!

The constant rewriting of history about how it was the wrong tactics that made us lose - no sir - it was the wrong strategy. You do not instigate wars to make your buddies rich while pretending that your doing the people your killing a favor. period.

The whole country has PTSD, IMHO. Until we admit it was a mistake, we are living in denial.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #85)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:12 AM

97. Graham Green

The Quiet American, great book and not a bad movie that had the misfortune of being released on 9-11-01.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:44 AM

87. Kick

for one of my favorite DUers.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:55 AM

88. If there is small consolation, the guy got a shitty seat.

That choir he was hearing was the angels singing. He probably couldn't hear the speech because he was lightheaded from the altitude! Crammed into a corner, as far back and as high up as possible!

I get the impression from this photo that he thought he'd have a better spot...I could be wrong, but I would like to think I am right...



I wonder if he's still shitting his drawers--judging by the looks of those around him, it sure seems that way!

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 06:32 AM

89. Thumbs up

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:31 AM

93. 3 niner this is 5 two, over

I hear you, and by inviting Ted Nugent to the State of the Union, the teabagger Congressman brought attention to the anti American RWNJ Party that sullies those of us who put on the green suit and jungle boots and carried a 16 through the gates of Hell.
The punk ass Nugent and those who align themselves with him and his ilk should be marginalized and in some cases handed a blindfold and cigarette.
Cheney, Nugent, Bush, Limbaugh, et al, are shining examples of what Americans shouldn't be.
Every day in Vietnam I thought about being home, and every day since I've been home the name Vietnam crosses my mind. And I' sure I'm not alone on this.
We, this band of brothers, owe it to one another to reject the Party of RWNJs and chickenhawks.
As for the Cheneys, Nugents, Bushes, Limbaughs, etc..., they're better suited to be mopping peep show stalls than having any voice in American political life.
That they have a voice at all casts a negative shadow across this land we defended is a senseless, blood soaked death ritual.
As for Nugent and his fellow reprobates, I wouldn't piss in their mouths if their throats were on fire.
Welcome home brothers. Ted Nugent's appearance at the State of the Union tells us our fight isn't over . Maybe Ted's status among the cowardly class will ignite the backlash.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:14 AM

99. Some were cowards

There were those men of draft age who opposed the war and then there were those who let others serve for them. I classmate's brother of mine, upon graduating from college and facing the draft, went on a diet of bananas and water so that he would be classified 4F. He said at the time that he opposed the war because it was immoral. Then he got job in the Department of Defense buying war materials for the troops, safe and sound in Philadelphia. He's now receiving a taxpayer pension. If that isn't chutzpa, I don't know what is.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:22 AM

102. Thank you for your service and this post

My husband spent his 21st birthday in Vietnam, 1971. He was a crew chief, shot down three times but managed to come home in one piece,something we celebrate everyday. I.ve asked him if he would like to visit Vietnam. He says he has no desire to ever return.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:28 AM

103. There should be a special place in Hell...

... for those who flee service when they are young, then urge war when they are safely ineligible. How blatantly selfish and contemptuous (not to mention contemptible) can one man be?

-- Mal

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Response to pinboy3niner (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:54 PM

107. Man that's terrible...

 

I'm not going to say thank you, instead I am going to say I love you and would give you a man hug if I could right now

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Response to Taverner (Reply #107)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 04:13 AM

109. Thanks, Taverner

Most of us were the children of WWII vets, and many of us were influenced by JFK's appeal to us to serve our country. Many joined the Peace Corps, others joined the service.

I hedged my bets, calling up my draft board and volunteering for the draft--because if I didn't like the military, I could get out in 2. Little did I know...

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