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Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:28 PM

 

Obama no better than Bush when it comes to security vs. civil liberties.

"A majority of voters believe President Obama has been no better than his immediate predecessor, President George W. Bush, when it comes to balancing national security with the protection of civil liberties, according to a new poll for The Hill.

Thirty-seven percent of voters argue that Obama has been worse than Bush while 15 percent say he has been “about the same.”

The results cannot be fully explained as party line responses. More than one in five self-identified Democrats, 21 percent, assert that the Obama administration has not improved upon Bush’s record. So do 23 percent of liberals.

The results are especially striking given the liberal hopes that attended Obama’s election, the opprobrium he heaped upon Bush’s national security policies during the 2008 campaign and his early promise to close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay."
http://thehill.com/polls/282147-hill-poll-voters-obama-no-better-than-bush-on-security-vs-civil-liberties#ixzz2KeT0DhHP

Even more scary is how successful the fear mongering over the past twelve years has been.
"The poll found that 53 percent of likely voters said it should be legal for the U.S. government to kill non-U.S. citizens who meet that description. Meanwhile, 44 percent said it should be legal for the U.S. government to kill American citizens who it believes are terrorists and present an imminent threat.

By contrast, 21 percent of respondents thought such an action should be illegal if the target is a non-U.S. citizen. A slightly higher percentage of voters, 31 percent, thought killing individuals whom the government believes are terrorists should be illegal when the target is an American citizen.

A significant proportion of respondents — 26 percent and 24 percent, respectively — said they were not sure if such attacks should be legal, regardless of whether the target was an American or not.

When asked whether they oppose or back the administration’s drone program, however, a significantly higher percentage of voters voiced their support. Sixty-five percent of respondents said they support the use of unmanned drones to kill “people in foreign countries whom the US government says are terrorists and present an imminent threat,” while just 19 percent of voters said they oppose the policy."

Just shows you that the public can be frightened into shredding the Constitution. Hell, apparently they can know full well what is wrong, but still want that wrong committed because it assuages their fear.

Sad how far down this country has come in such a short time. Pretty soon, we will be afraid of our own shadows.


37 replies, 2131 views

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply Obama no better than Bush when it comes to security vs. civil liberties. (Original post)
MadHound Feb 2013 OP
Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #1
msanthrope Feb 2013 #18
ProSense Feb 2013 #2
MadHound Feb 2013 #6
msanthrope Feb 2013 #17
msanthrope Feb 2013 #19
Tempest Feb 2013 #3
MadHound Feb 2013 #7
msanthrope Feb 2013 #16
MadHound Feb 2013 #24
msanthrope Feb 2013 #27
one_voice Feb 2013 #4
Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #5
dionysus Feb 2013 #8
MadHound Feb 2013 #11
dionysus Feb 2013 #25
Rosco T. Feb 2013 #9
VanillaRhapsody Feb 2013 #10
msanthrope Feb 2013 #21
SidDithers Feb 2013 #12
MadHound Feb 2013 #13
msanthrope Feb 2013 #15
ProSense Feb 2013 #22
msanthrope Feb 2013 #23
msanthrope Feb 2013 #14
msanthrope Feb 2013 #20
CountAllVotes Feb 2013 #26
msanthrope Feb 2013 #28
CountAllVotes Feb 2013 #30
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #29
MadHound Feb 2013 #32
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #33
msanthrope Feb 2013 #34
ProSense Feb 2013 #36
msanthrope Feb 2013 #37
graham4anything Feb 2013 #31
stevenleser Feb 2013 #35

Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:32 PM

1. Those are some sobering poll numbers.

37% said Obama had been worse than Bush and 15% same they were about the same.

Some of the other numbers are more supportive of Obama policies, though.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:22 PM

18. Not really--this poll was done by the people who said Romney was winning by 5%. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:32 PM

2. FYI:

The Hill poll is conducted by a hack organization run by Rasmussen.



Remembering Bush, accurately
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022343435

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:46 PM

6. What organization is that, exactly?

 

It isn't named, so if you have some sort of link, proof, facts to back up your claim, I would certainly appreciate it.

Frankly, The Hill has always come across as rather balanced. Their current editor in chief is from the Daily Telegraph, and among their columnists are Kos and Lanny Davis.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:21 PM

17. Pulse Opinion is the subsidiary that does Rasmussen's phone calls. 538blog

skewered them well before the election.

Try google. It is your friend.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:23 PM

19. I am so kicking and reccing this thread.....nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:37 PM

3. THE POLLING COMPANY IS OWNED BY SCOTT RASMUSSEN. CITE AT YOUR OWN PERIL. n/t

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Response to Tempest (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:48 PM

7. Can you show me where you 're getting that information? n/t

 

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Response to MadHound (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:20 PM

16. You might try the company's website, 538 blog, wikipedia, and google.

All of which would have taken about 5 seconds.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:33 PM

24. Actually I did,

 

Pulse Opinion Research, the company that does the polling for The Hill is not owned by Rasmussen.

Besides, I thought you would be overjoyed that so many people are supporting an Obama administration policy.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:37 PM

27. Yes...it is a subsidiary of Rasmussen, and does its polling. As I cited 538 blog below. AGAIN:

The 105 polls released in Senate and gubernatorial races by Rasmussen Reports and its subsidiary, Pulse Opinion Research, missed the final margin between the candidates by 5.8 points, a considerably higher figure than that achieved by most other pollsters. Some 13 of its polls missed by 10 or more points, including one in the Hawaii Senate race that missed the final margin between the candidates by 40 points, the largest error ever recorded in a general election in FiveThirtyEight’s database, which includes all polls conducted since 1998.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/rasmussen-polls-were-biased-and-inaccurate-quinnipiac-surveyusa-performed-strongly/


You telling us you know better than Nate Silver?

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:38 PM

4. Oh good another one...

it's been too long since the last Obama is the same as Bush thread. Wait, not he's worse..thread.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:49 PM

8. try harder next time. nt

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Response to dionysus (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:57 PM

11. I thought you'd be happy, so many people supporting the president's drone policy.

 

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Response to MadHound (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:34 PM

25. you're half as clever as you think you are, maybe less. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:50 PM

9. Utter Horseshit. Get. Out. n/m

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:56 PM

10. DU being attacked by Anti Obama Trolls today?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:25 PM

21. You Better Believe It! nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:07 PM

12. Using Rasmussen to bash Obama is pretty fucking low...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:09 PM

13. Well, I'm still waiting for somebody to actually prove that as a fact,

 

But hey, I thought you would be happy that so many people are supporting an Obama administration policy

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Response to MadHound (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:19 PM

15. Dude--are you doubting that Pulse Opinion is a Rasmussen subsidiary?

That's been well-known since before the election.


The 105 polls released in Senate and gubernatorial races by Rasmussen Reports and its subsidiary, Pulse Opinion Research, missed the final margin between the candidates by 5.8 points, a considerably higher figure than that achieved by most other pollsters. Some 13 of its polls missed by 10 or more points, including one in the Hawaii Senate race that missed the final margin between the candidates by 40 points, the largest error ever recorded in a general election in FiveThirtyEight’s database, which includes all polls conducted since 1998.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/rasmussen-polls-were-biased-and-inaccurate-quinnipiac-surveyusa-performed-strongly/

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Response to MadHound (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:26 PM

22. You seem to be aware that Rasmussen sucks

"Well, I'm still waiting for somebody to actually prove that as a fact"

So why didn't you check the poll you posted? It's linked to in the article:

National Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters Conducted February 7, 2013 By Pulse Opinion Research
http://thehill.com/images/stories/news/2013/02_february/crosstabs_20130207_thehill.pdf

It's Rasmussen's pay-to-poll hack automated Pulse Opinion Research.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:33 PM

23. Waiting, huh?

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:17 PM

14. Your using a Rasmussen company poll? Pulse Opinion is a subsidiary of

Rasmussen.....really, really low.


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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:24 PM

20. Copied and Pasted the OP for Posterity.....

Obama no better than Bush when it comes to security vs. civil liberties.

"A majority of voters believe President Obama has been no better than his immediate predecessor, President George W. Bush, when it comes to balancing national security with the protection of civil liberties, according to a new poll for The Hill.

Thirty-seven percent of voters argue that Obama has been worse than Bush while 15 percent say he has been “about the same.”

The results cannot be fully explained as party line responses. More than one in five self-identified Democrats, 21 percent, assert that the Obama administration has not improved upon Bush’s record. So do 23 percent of liberals.

The results are especially striking given the liberal hopes that attended Obama’s election, the opprobrium he heaped upon Bush’s national security policies during the 2008 campaign and his early promise to close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay."
http://thehill.com/polls/282147-hill-poll-voters-obama-no-better-than-bush-on-security-vs-civil-liberties#ixzz2KeT0DhHP

Even more scary is how successful the fear mongering over the past twelve years has been.
"The poll found that 53 percent of likely voters said it should be legal for the U.S. government to kill non-U.S. citizens who meet that description. Meanwhile, 44 percent said it should be legal for the U.S. government to kill American citizens who it believes are terrorists and present an imminent threat.

By contrast, 21 percent of respondents thought such an action should be illegal if the target is a non-U.S. citizen. A slightly higher percentage of voters, 31 percent, thought killing individuals whom the government believes are terrorists should be illegal when the target is an American citizen.

A significant proportion of respondents — 26 percent and 24 percent, respectively — said they were not sure if such attacks should be legal, regardless of whether the target was an American or not.

When asked whether they oppose or back the administration’s drone program, however, a significantly higher percentage of voters voiced their support. Sixty-five percent of respondents said they support the use of unmanned drones to kill “people in foreign countries whom the US government says are terrorists and present an imminent threat,” while just 19 percent of voters said they oppose the policy."

Just shows you that the public can be frightened into shredding the Constitution. Hell, apparently they can know full well what is wrong, but still want that wrong committed because it assuages their fear.

Sad how far down this country has come in such a short time. Pretty soon, we will be afraid of our own shadows.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:34 PM

26. eh wake up would ya?

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:38 PM

28. This is part of the strategy...Donald Segretti called it 'ratfucking.'

Attacks from the 'left' on a good candidate to do what the right cannot.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:42 PM

30. * fucked us

All of us.

And no, We Shall Never Forget!!

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:39 PM

29. Geez. You're so desperate to discredit the President that you're using these poll numbers? nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:46 PM

32. I thought you'd be ecstatic that an Obama administraton policy is getting so much support,

 

Sixty three percent in favor of his drone policy

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Response to MadHound (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:06 AM

33. You just can't stop posting crap about the President can you? Do you....

....really hate the President so bad that you're willing to post anything?

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #33)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:17 AM

34. Rasmussen. That's how low we've gone to scrape the barrel. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:45 AM

36. The funny thing is

the OP highlighted a negative in terms of Obama, but not the policy.

Thirty-seven percent of voters argue that Obama has been worse than Bush while 15 percent say he has been “about the same.”


Poll show a majority/plurality in the favor of the President and the policy:

Should it be legal or illegal for the US government to kill non-US citizens whom it believes are terrorists and present an imminent threat?

Legal 53 percent


Should it be legal or illegal for the US government to kill American citizens whom it believes are terrorists and present an imminent threat?

Legal 44 percent

Do you support or oppose the use of unmanned drones to target and kill people in foreign countries whom the US government says are terrorists and present an imminent threat?

Support 65 percent


Do you think President Obama has been better, worse or about the same as President George W. Bush in striking the right balance between ensuring national security and protecting civil liberties?

Better 44 percent


That's from a hack right-leaning poll.

Do you think the people who rec'd this thread know that?



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Response to ProSense (Reply #36)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:51 AM

37. I can't imagine anyone read too closely. One would hope recc'ing Rasmussen was an oversight, as

opposed to careful deliberation.

But then again, I look at the OP, who still hasn't admitted that he's using Rasmussen.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:44 PM

31. It's obvious the people in the alt-media furthering that meme want Jeb Bush in 2016

 

just like Karl Rove does. Karl loves Rasmussen and the line they spew.

With the realization that the Alt-media realizes it makes more money with a republican in office, like Rush makes more money with the democratic party in office.

Just like Alex Jones and that segment of the alt-media beloved by the Orly Taitz's out there.
Plus the Ron Paul groupies that are beloved to the alt-media.
(and those signing onto any of Ron's bills, all those of course that not one ever passed anything at all. Ron as an 0-fer in that sense too).

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:40 AM

35. You don't even do cursory checks on the anti-Obama stuff you post, do ya?

If it attacks the President, you post it. You are in such a hurry to post anything critical that you find that you've now posted polling data from one of the polling agencies that suggested Romney would win in a landslide.

Oh, but, no, I'm wrong to suggest you are biased against Obama. That's what you keep telling me anyway.

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