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Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:59 PM

MY ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH USER FRIENDLY TO DUrs.

First of all, I am as disgusted as anyone with dark issues within the Catholic Church. However, I am also disgusted by some of the vitriolic posts on DU regarding the church vis a vis the pope's resignation. I am blessed--yes I said blessed--to have within my family a wonderful woman who was a member of the first order of Catholic nuns founded for and by African American women. The lives impacted in a positive way by their untiring work are numerous. The Catholic Church is comprised of millions of people who strive to help their fellow man. They are the real Catholic Church. IMHO, it is intellectually fashionable on DU to equate atheism with IQ. I am sure I will be chastised, ignored or blackballed for my views. Frankly, I don't give a damn!

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Reply MY ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH USER FRIENDLY TO DUrs. (Original post)
corneliamcgillicutty Feb 2013 OP
warrprayer Feb 2013 #1
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #29
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #33
warrprayer Feb 2013 #36
quinnox Feb 2013 #2
iwillalwayswonderwhy Feb 2013 #3
ChairmanAgnostic Feb 2013 #4
madrchsod Feb 2013 #12
ChairmanAgnostic Feb 2013 #23
Go Vols Feb 2013 #25
Marrah_G Feb 2013 #5
ChairmanAgnostic Feb 2013 #6
corneliamcgillicutty Feb 2013 #16
Marrah_G Feb 2013 #17
ChairmanAgnostic Feb 2013 #24
FunkyLeprechaun Feb 2013 #7
RebelOne Feb 2013 #9
Siwsan Feb 2013 #8
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #10
lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #21
madrchsod Feb 2013 #11
Brickbat Feb 2013 #13
fadedrose Feb 2013 #14
Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #15
libtodeath Feb 2013 #18
retread Feb 2013 #19
cbayer Feb 2013 #20
MichiganVote Feb 2013 #22
EternalOptimist Feb 2013 #26
HockeyMom Feb 2013 #27
Zorra Feb 2013 #28
RebelOne Feb 2013 #30
Lint Head Feb 2013 #31
life long demo Feb 2013 #32
Zoeisright Feb 2013 #34
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #35

Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:01 PM

1. Good on you!

The Nuns are the saving grace of the Church IMO.

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Response to warrprayer (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:33 PM

29. You betcha! I still have the scars on the back of my right hand by the nun that inflicted them on me

in the third grade, because she didn't like the way I held my pen!

So she broke a yardstick over my knuckles.

Taught me good!

Sister Annette, may she rot in HELL.

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Response to warrprayer (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:27 PM

33. As a child, the meanest people I ever knew were Nuns.

Church people were a close second.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #33)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 05:45 PM

36. in 8th grade

.. we had a really cool ex missionary Nun from the Maryknolls, she used to throw candy to us und laugh as we scrambled for it... she was nearly 80... it reminded her of her missionary days

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:03 PM

2. I would consider joining the church, if one day I decided to join organized religion

 

And I have much respect for all the charity works the Catholics do!

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:04 PM

3. Well. As an atheist, I don't find this post very user friendly

But I do appreciate charitable works, provided there are no strings attached.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:19 PM

4. We KNOW the pope actively covered up crimes around the world.

From 1982-2005, that was his responsibility. The recent document dump in Los Angeles even has correspondence between Mahoney and the Rat, proving how they conspired to throw sand into any litigation or discovery. The Rat's connections with Rev. Marciel Maciel are even more horrendous. The crimes were so numerous, and the Rat's support of Maciel and his thuggish organization so strong, it is impossible to view the Rat as anything but a career criminal conspirator.

And what of the financial crimes? The Vatican Bank is a criminal organization. Money laundering for the Mafia, drug lords, weapons dealers, perhaps even terrorist states, and extremely questionable dealings by the Roman Curia were uncovered as recently as July, 2012. The man behind the crimes and their stonewalling cover-ups is the current Vatican Secretary of State Tarcisio Bertone. Not only does he double deal on the world political stage, he has his sticky fingers on the 7-8 Billion euros that are directly controlled by the Vatican.

There is no indication that the Vatican Bank and the Sec. of State have changed their ways since the 1980s, when the corrupt Milanese banker Robert Calvi and the mafia financier Michele Sidona were found to be fronting for drug dealers, weapons sales (often to groups directly opposed to NATO interests), and other fascinating, corrupt practices. When one avenue for crimes was ended because of the Banco collapse in the mid 1980s, (under Archbishop Paul Marcinkus) the Vatican simply moved its dirty dealings to two accounts at JP Morgan Chase, opened by the Vatican Bank.

After the Rat was made pope in 2005, millions of Vatican dollars were deposited to one account in Milan, then transferred (and laundered) in another JP Morgan account in Germany, effectively erasing the trail of how the Vatican originally got the funds. After Italian police froze tens of millions of dollars in the Milan account, the Vatican begged, bribed, stonewalled, and pushed for the the re-openning of that account and release of those funds. Eventually Italy agreed to release the funds it froze, but it refuses to put the Vatican Bank back on the list of approved banks. In simpler terms, the Vatican Bank is still so dirty and connected with mob, drug, and arms dealing money, that not even the Italian Government allows it to do business with any Euro bank or government, or allows it to do international business. That is why you can no longer use credit cards in the Vatican City. Because its bank is so corrupt and involved in illegal activities.

There is no way around the fact that the Vatican Bank invested in and profited from crime, and did everything possible to keep its many ties to crime and heavy duty criminals quiet. When you launder money for drug dealers and weapons dealers, some responsibility has to rub off. Many groups currently blowing up parts of our allies' citizens might be armed only because of the criminal acts by the Vatican Bank.

Explain all the criminal ties, all the criminal acts, and make it fit with your demand that we treat this criminal organization as though it offered some benefit to people. I can't see how it does.

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Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:46 PM

12. the catholic church is the worlds oldest criminal organization

they are directly and indirectly responsible for more deaths than any other religion and empire in history in recorded history

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:35 PM

23. and that's their good side.

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Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:43 PM

25. +1

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:20 PM

5. I come from a family of Catholics

I also am part of a family greatly harmed by the Catholic church. A church that then promoted one of the perpetrators to place of highest honor in Rome, far away from anyplace that could make him pay for his crimes. He sits on that damn throne as an Arch Bishop this very day. He is given a place of "honor" by that disgusting man called Pope.

As long as the lay people of the Catholic church continue to feed the Vatican money and power and blind obedience then Rome will NEVER change. It is up to the lay people to say ENOUGH and to back up those words with action. As long as you continue to turn a blind eye then the crimes will continue to be committed and they will continue to be covered up by those pigs who call themselves "holy men"

I am sorry that you feel such pain at being lumped in with the corruption in your church, but you know the corruption is there. You know the harm that it does, yet you continue to support it.

Yes, the church does run some good charities. My mother works at a food pantry and St. Vincent DePauls. Frankly, I wish she would put her time into a charity not run by the church, but since she is in her late 70's, I don't see that happening.

User friendly? tell that to the men I love who were raped as children.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:24 PM

6. well said, M. Well said.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:00 PM

16. With all due respect to your response, I am not im any way defending the corruption/evild within the

Church. I am trying to highlight the positive work that is done by church members despite the corruption within it's hierarchy. My aunt's order of women of color was founded before the abolition of slavery. Also, I personally have endeavored to stand up for what is right. As a humble employee at a Catholic University, I met with the president to tell him about situations that had a negative impact on the students. The point I am trying make is that despite the corruption, there are many good members within the ranks and the religious communities. Sadly, their efforts often go unnoticed. When the evils are exposed, hopefully things will change. If not, we may see the demise of the Catholic Church.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:11 PM

17. Frankly I do not understand why American Catholics are loyal to Rome

The Church will not ever changed until they are forced to. If they don't change you are right, the church will end up dying. But right now, I would prefer to see the Vatican empty and bankrupt as opposed to what is now and has been since the beginning. It is a destructive power. It rewards secrecy and deception above truth, love and respect. Good priests will never get ahead in the Church as it stands because a truly good priest would NEVER agree to play the game.

It can't just be one or two Catholics saying they are mad. The Vatican doesn't care if they are mad as long as they do what they are told and continue to give them money. It needs to be oceans of Catholics saying NO MORE and backing that up with actions. It is not just enough to say "I don't like what they do" when at the same time supporting that structure who abuses the very people it professes to serve.

The Catholics in this country to do a world of good if they broke away from the corruption and used their own resources to create positive change.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:37 PM

24. They use fear as a great motivator. "But what if your sole goes to hell because you

didn't follow our instructions?"

As if fish had anything to do with it. Plus, I never heard of any eternal sole. Orange Roughie, perhaps, but not sole.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:25 PM

7. My mother was abused by her Catholic Priest uncle

My mother and her sisters were threatened with the prospect of going to the magdalene laundries.

Fuck the Catholic Church.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:39 PM

9. Kudos to you. I was an Episcopalian, which is essentially like the Catholic church

without all the mumbo-jumbo. I sm now an atheist.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:27 PM

8. I wish I'd had a better experience with the RC church

Unfortunately, it was bad. Very bad, and that's a very difficult thing to move past. But I know many very good and lovely RC people and wish them only the best.


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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:42 PM

10. Tim Minchin speaks for me...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:38 PM

21. rofl


Make it STOP!!!

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:42 PM

11. my problem with the church is the pope and his boys in the vactican

there`s been many in the church who have spoken out about injustice in the world and many have given their lives in that pursuit.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:49 PM

13. A church isn't necessary for that untiring work.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:49 PM

14. No longer a Catholic, but it has nothing to do with the nuns

They were the best thing that ever happened to me as far as teaching goes..my problem with the church is the doctrine and not believeing it. I do not believe the nuns lied to me, they taught what they believed, and they taught it well.

We had one awful priest who screamed and screamed at the top of his lungs. Good day when he left...he was there most of my life, unfortunately...

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:49 PM

15. I never was like that, but I do see it often here.

I was raised catholic, then on my own journey went from islam, to bhuddism, hinduism, jainaism, sikh, gosh you name it, then atheist, then agnostic, then lutheran, and back to catholic, I know there are people WAY smarter than me of faith.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:12 PM

18. They regard women as second class just to pick one thing that needs to change but probably wont.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:21 PM

19. Is this in 2 parts? I seem to be missing the "attempt" part.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:31 PM

20. There are lots of good Catholics, priests, nuns and parishes. And they

provide a safety net for those most in need that knows no equal from the either the rest of the religious or the secular community.

Unfortunately, many, many heinous things have happened and been covered up, and those irreparably damage by that are unlikely to be very forgiving... and who could blame them.

But to condemn everyone associated with the RCC is unfair and represents prejudice, if not outright bigotry.

There is a protected group here for Catholics:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1221

There is also the larger Religion group where there is a lot of debate, but an effort to keep it civil and movement towards it being a better place for all kinds of believers and non-believers.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:55 PM

22. Millions of people...ok, so how many of those millions hold these derelict Bishops accountable?

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:49 PM

26. Aren't the millions of followers

 

Enablers? I also think that there are millions of Catholics that do good works but aren't they also allowing the raping of children, enslavement of women, thievery of babies and so many other horrific, institutionalized practices?

You can only fix something if you shine a light on it and say loudly, "THIS IS WRONG!!" otherwise, aren't you complicit?

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:59 PM

27. It is the message (Catholic teaching), not the messenger (Pope,

priests, nuns). Former Catholic and Catholic School graduate.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:08 PM

28. I was born LGBT. Please, explain to me why I should not have a serious problem

with the Catholic Church.

The Pope said all kinds of nasty things about me/us, and is dead set against me/us having the right to marry, and was even telling people all over the world (on Christmas, no less) that how the very way we were born was destroying the essence of the human creature. Etc.

Pope Benedict Takes Anti-Gay Marriage To New Level In Christmas Speech On Family Values

VATICAN CITY The pope pressed his opposition to gay marriage Friday, denouncing what he described as people eschewing their God-given gender identities to suit their sexual choices and destroying the very "essence of the human creature" in the process.


I personally don't really understand how any decent person could support an organization whose leader claims to be the Creator's personal representative on earth, and spews and seeks to legislate this type of hate.

I wouldn't have a serious problem with the Catholic Church and Catholics if it weren't for this. I might not believe the same things, but as long as the Catholic Church and its followers weren't messing with my very existence, we'd get along ok, I think. I certainly don't want to limit the equal rights of Catholics in any way whatsoever, and all I'm asking is for them, and people of other religions to treat me like they'd want to be treated.

Here's a song I wrote and performed, it's about religious conservatives who trample on LGBT folks and others:



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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:37 PM

30. I have no ill feelings toward the Catholic church or its followers.

My daughter (who is an atheist as I am) worked for a Catholic college in Miami in the graphics department. Because she was an employee, she received free college tuition. Her only expense was her books. As an atheist, she had to attend a lot of religious classes, but she bravely endured them. She received her bachelor's degree. She then went on to teaching and has just recently earned her master's degree. So as I stated, I have no qualms with that religion.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:59 PM

31. The Catholic Church should continue to be the blessing it is for the poor and lost but it needs to

stop telling everyone else what they should believe. The condemnation of people who choose not to be Catholic or abide by it's precepts needs to stop. I have Catholics in my family and some of the out right teaching that anything non Catholic is evil is nothing more than religious bigotry.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:18 PM

32. As a not too active Catholic, after 12 years of Catholic

Schools, marriage in the church, now divorced, I at a point in my life after seeking help with an abusive husband, from a priest, and getting no help except say prayers, went in search of another religion. Episcopal, Lutheran, Church of God, and many others, ended right back in the Catholic Faith. I found that my faith didn't depend on who was pope, or bishop or even local priest. It was within me. The only pope I ever liked was John XXIII, to me he opened the doors and let the sun in. The only pope I seriously disliked is the present one, I can picture him judging at the inquisition. I believe in the God of forgiveness, not of fire and brimstone. I believe that everyone has a moral code within them whether they believe in God or not. Doing good or being kind to all creatures on earth doesn't belong to any religion.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:30 PM

34. Complete fail.

The harm done by the Catholic church far outweighs any good done by individual members.

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Response to corneliamcgillicutty (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:31 PM

35. But why do you need to be part of that church to "do good" for people?

I wish people would quit that institution en masse and let it crumble onto the dustbin of history where it deserves to be. I don't care how liberal you or the peeps in your parish are, if you stay in the church you continue to support the Evil Empire that is the Vatican and it's regressive anti-women, anti-gay, anti-progress agenda.

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