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Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:44 PM

Pope Resigns Amid New Docs: Several letters to Ratzinger from Mahoney, 30,000 pages Re: Sex Abuse

Papal cuts: why is really resigning?

by digby

Adele Stan addresses what virtually everyone is thinking but nobody will admit (at least on TV, particularly MSNBC where "pope news" is right up there with a terrorist attack for the amount of attention it garners.)

...............................

At the time that Mahony was covering up the crimes of his priests, Benedict, then known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, led the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican office that oversaw such matters.

In archdiocese documents released under a court order earlier this month, Mahony is revealed to have taken actions deliberately contrived to avoid legal prosecution of priests who had sexually abused -- and even raped -- children. The documents were so damaging that Mahony, now retired and once thought to be a contender for the papacy, was publicly rebuked by the current Archbishop of Los Angeles Jose Gomez, and stripped of any public duties, an unprecedented censure of a cardinal archbishop by his successor.

Amid the cache of church records, released as part of a settlement between the archdiocese and 500 sex-abuse victims, are several letters to Ratzinger from Mahoney, in which the California prelate reports to the Vatican his reasons for various actions (such as defrocking) taken against the offending priests. The records amount to some 30,000 pages, so their full contents have yet to be pored through by investigators and journalists.

What is clear, though, is that Mahony repeatedly failed to act on concerns about the sexual abuse of children by priests that brought to him by pastors and church officials throughout the diocese, and that when he did, his actions were designed to avoid criminal prosecutions of the predator priests. And it is also clear that in his Vatican office, Ratzinger was the recipient of letters from Mahony informing the Holy See of what actions he had taken.


They haven't even begun to scratch the surface of these document. Mahoney and Ratzinger worked closely together and Mahoney was previously thought to be one of the rare exceptions to the Cardinal cover-up, at least to the degree he's recently been revealed to have been involved. So, most likely, was Ratzinger. Stay tuned.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/papal-cuts-why-is-really-resigning.html
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/pope-benedict-stepping-down-shocking-abdication?paging=off

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Reply Pope Resigns Amid New Docs: Several letters to Ratzinger from Mahoney, 30,000 pages Re: Sex Abuse (Original post)
kpete Feb 2013 OP
CaliforniaPeggy Feb 2013 #1
Sophiegirl Feb 2013 #37
libtodeath Feb 2013 #2
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #3
Tom Rinaldo Feb 2013 #5
hedgehog Feb 2013 #4
ChairmanAgnostic Feb 2013 #16
MADem Feb 2013 #56
Coyotl Feb 2013 #6
lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #24
randome Feb 2013 #7
superpatriotman Feb 2013 #8
vankuria Feb 2013 #67
Lint Head Feb 2013 #9
randome Feb 2013 #11
Cleita Feb 2013 #13
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #69
Lint Head Feb 2013 #14
randome Feb 2013 #15
alterfurz Feb 2013 #79
Cleita Feb 2013 #10
Coyotl Feb 2013 #27
Cleita Feb 2013 #29
Coyotl Feb 2013 #31
Cleita Feb 2013 #32
Coyotl Feb 2013 #33
GiveMeFreedom Feb 2013 #73
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #72
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #82
Uncle Joe Feb 2013 #12
Coyotl Feb 2013 #17
glinda Feb 2013 #50
Hestia Feb 2013 #70
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #18
hue Feb 2013 #20
Auntie Bush Feb 2013 #41
hue Feb 2013 #19
Kolesar Feb 2013 #21
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #22
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #23
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #25
yardwork Feb 2013 #35
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #42
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #46
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #49
George II Feb 2013 #26
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #45
Wolf Frankula Feb 2013 #28
glinda Feb 2013 #30
UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #34
Coyotl Feb 2013 #36
UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #38
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #39
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #40
agracie Feb 2013 #65
riqster Feb 2013 #76
arely staircase Feb 2013 #43
Trailrider1951 Feb 2013 #44
idwiyo Feb 2013 #55
amuse bouche Feb 2013 #47
calimary Feb 2013 #48
morningfog Feb 2013 #51
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #52
snappyturtle Feb 2013 #54
Avalux Feb 2013 #61
rickford66 Feb 2013 #53
burnsei sensei Feb 2013 #57
happyslug Feb 2013 #62
Berlum Feb 2013 #58
tavalon Feb 2013 #59
joanbarnes Feb 2013 #60
happyslug Feb 2013 #63
me b zola Feb 2013 #64
eggplant Feb 2013 #66
dixiegrrrrl Feb 2013 #71
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #68
DreWId Feb 2013 #74
urbuddha Feb 2013 #75
toby jo Feb 2013 #78
Peace Patriot Feb 2013 #77
KamaAina Feb 2013 #80
mother earth Feb 2013 #81
Chorophyll Feb 2013 #83

Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:46 PM

1. Oh, why am I not surprised?

Those two are cut from the same cloth.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:42 PM

37. If it wasn't so sad..

That comment would be funny.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:48 PM

2. I would guess he may be very ill so wants to hand pick the next pope to keep

the cover up going.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:51 PM

3. As Someone Here Said, Ma'am: He Is Only As Sick As His Secrets....

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:54 PM

5. than I suspect the man is very ill indeed n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:52 PM

4. I don't believe the Vatican bureaucrats have any notion of what outsiders think of the

pedophilia or the cover-up - that's why both went on for so long and why there is such an incredible paper trail. I think this resignation has to do with various factions seeking to control the Church. My only question is why the hurry; why not wait until Benedict dies, why not wait until after the Easter season? The abruptness suggests that someone wants to make the transfer of power while they have control, and that all the pieces are moving around so fast the transfer has to happen now! There are a number of German speaking Church officials (bishops, abbots and even a cardinal in Austria, Germany and Switzerland) who are asking questions about married priests and female priests. I am uncertain if they are holding the line on gays or not. But I have a strong suspicion that someone wants these men slapped down hard, and Benedict is unwilling to go after his buddies.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:23 PM

16. Follow the money.

Always good advice.

Der Spiegel did a great job laying out the crimes and financial frauds being committed by the Vatican, sometime last summer. The Roman Curia and the Rat never saw eye to eye.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:24 AM

56. The TV is putting it down to heart disease, exhaustion and a secret operation to replace

a pacemaker battery a while back.

It is not uncommon for heart patients to become very depressed.

This has been planned for months--at least; they've been working on his new quarters in the old convent for some time. The announcement is sudden, the planning for it, though, has been going on for awhile.

I think -- abuse and modernization issues notwithstanding -- the place to remain protected from scrutiny and maintaining the status quo is at the head of the pack. He probably expects to not last much longer and wants to be able to influence who the next guy in line will be...something that doesn't always work when you're dead!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:56 PM

6. Presumedly the Pope is in touch with God, and getting divine marching orders.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:47 PM

24. Shrub claimed god spoke to him, too:

"If they ever start air national guard drug tests, just go awol, and someday, they'll make you president."

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:57 PM

7. It would not surprise me but it's still speculation so far.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:59 PM

8. Coincidence that HBO just released Mea Maxima Culpa?

He is the carrier of the secrets of 1700 years of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.
It must be too much too handle anymore.

It is sad because the idea of the church is a beautiful one.

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Response to superpatriotman (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:19 PM

67. I watched it

It was excellent, but difficult to watch at times. Very hard for me to process the magnitude of the abuse, the cover-up and all the damage done to so many.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:00 PM

9. The Vatican should stop being a country of it's own with darker secrets than any other country.

When a country does bad things it is usually radically changed. The Soviet Union is an example.
All the way back through the Dark Ages into the Crusades, the 20th Century and association with Nazis they have too much political control over the common rights of individuals. No one religion from Christianity to any other should decide a persons individual "common sense" rights. People should not murder, steal or take advantage of the fearful or weak. Duh. It doesn't take a religion to determine that.
It takes a belief. Belief is not necessarily belief in a god spirit or religion. Pain is pain no matter what one believes and all humans and animals feel pain. Simply. Things that that cause pain should not be acceptable in any society. There are exceptions. Surgery can cause pain but it is for a good cause. If a religion or belief causes hurt, murder or pain that part of that religion or belief causing that pain should be changed. It's nothing more that a belief in common sense. Common sense is not a religion.

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Response to Lint Head (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:05 PM

11. And they should stop denigrating women and gays.

And they should stop molesting children.
And they should stop insisting that men are the only interpreters of God's law.
(And they should REALLY stop wearing those awful clothes!)

But if they did all that, why would there be a reason for the CC to exist?

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Response to randome (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:08 PM

13. I was raised a Catholic but their attitude towards women

and other gender issues like being gay caused me to leave. I like what Jesus taught but I didn't like what the Church taught about these issues. Also, I don't believe Jesus was divine either.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:28 PM

69. I was raised in the RCC, and was a practicing Catholic until the Jesuits got hold of me.

Teaching teenagers critical thinking skills made me the agnostic I am today.

So many revealed religions, so many cults of personality, so many myths based on an even older mythos, all inventions of Man who in the end is still only trying to stop being afraid of the dark.

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Response to randome (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:09 PM

14. You left out the tall hats!

Last edited Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:33 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Lint Head (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:10 PM

15. Yeah, those too! What were they THINKING???

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Response to Lint Head (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:35 PM

79. All hail Dagon, the Fish-God of Babylon!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:02 PM

10. And so it begins. The scandal starts to unfold.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:54 PM

27. They are bringing in a cover-up expert to handle the details and craft a transistion team

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:59 PM

29. My eyes!

However, he would be a great anti-Pope. In some wacky prophesies the devil is supposed to become a human and then the Pope.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:02 PM

31. The liberals have their own candidate.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:07 PM

32. I think you need to put Michael in the Dalai Lama's clothes if you want

to equate these guys with religious leaders. I don't really like your depiction of him as money hungry and fat.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:16 PM

33. It's not like there are a lot of Moore as Pope memes out there

Or other liberals for that matter. I agree, but I did have a laugh AT the rude humor, and I suspect Moore can take it and probably laughs at it too.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #33)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:44 PM

73. Bingo! nt

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:41 PM

72. Michael Moore would no doubt love that picture.

He is, you know, a devout Catholic from what I can tell.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:52 PM

82. The worst of both worlds.



He'd probably wear his crocs with his robe.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:08 PM

12. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:35 PM

17. "We are all sinners": Pope Benedict XVI 'resigns' 24 hours after posting mysterious tweet

"We are all sinners": Pope Benedict XVI 'resigns' 24 hours after posting mysterious tweet
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pope-benedict-xvi-head-of-catholic-1703278

.... the papacy will remain vacant until a successor is elected.

In a statement, he said: "After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry...

"In today's world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognise my incapacity to adequately fulfil the ministry entrusted to me."

Just 24 hours before the news broke, the Pope tweeted: "We must trust in the mighty power of Godís mercy.

"We are all sinners, but His grace transforms us and makes us new."

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:53 PM

50. Well that's a sorry version of "I'm sorry".

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:03 PM

70. My first thought after hearing those words was Alzheimer's. Doesn't he act like

a puppet on stage, never really engaged?

Does this excuse his oversight of the Inquisition (that is the common of the committee he oversaw)? No, but maybe that is the fear - that he may do or might say something that will show that god and church are infallible.

I do like the thought of reformers taking over though. The modern nuns have shown that they are quite capable of spreading social justice, which is what the church should be doing only and always. What a different world we would have if women ran the church.

Also - tall pointy hats - goes back to the days of Assyria, Sumer, Egypt, etc. Your hat "penetrates" the sky piercing the veil between deity and humankind. It's a very ancient concept.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:23 PM

18. Tax all churches

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:30 PM

20. +1

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:57 PM

41. Yeah! Tax all those sinners!

We could balance the budget...cure world hunger and send every kid to college and there would be money left over.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:30 PM

19. IMHO: Good riddance to bad rubbish & take the Catholic Church with you!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:34 PM

21. Mahoney has done a very, very bad thing. ... eom

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:37 PM

22. Boom goes the dynamite! nt.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:41 PM

23. And I thought Pope Maladict had a hard time refilling his Viagra prescription...

well, that too...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:49 PM

25. Everybody already KNEW THIS when he got the job....

It was a major issue back then but it was glossed over by the people making the decision and they figured everyone would just fall in line.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:24 PM

35. I think that the Penn State thing may have contributed to the Church's undoing.

Think of all those Catholic football fans. And the authorities did that to Joe Pa..... Then look at the Vatican. Thousands of Jerry Sanduskys. The Vatican far, far more culpable on a mind-bogglingly larger scale. How are they going to get away with that.

Do not underestimate the role of Catholic football fans in this.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:07 PM

42. It was the scandals in England that was brought up over there....

As well as the ones in America.

Bill Maher had a LOT of fun with the entire scandal.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:22 PM

46. Did they have the letters when he was elected as the next Pope? nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:21 PM

49. Paper trails are sneaky things,...sometimes they creep up on you from behind.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:49 PM

26. Oh come on! The man is 85 years old, and the reason he's resigning is the sex scandal? "Stay Tuned"!

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Response to George II (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:20 PM

45. For the last 600 years, Popes have died while holding the title....

....why is this one suddenly jumping ship in the face of such solid Catholic tradition?

Think about it?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:57 PM

28. To Show My Heart is In the Right Place

I'm sending Herr Ratzinger a present, a book to read in retirement.

That book by Jim Hogshire.

Wolf

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:01 PM

30. oops

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:19 PM

34. Does this mean the Pope lied?

 

What a shock!

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:26 PM

36. He wasn't infallible until he became Pope, right?

So, he could be found guilty of crimes, I suppose.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:42 PM

38. Not gonna happen.

 

To be punished for a crime a prince must commit the ultimate crime of appearing vulnerable. This is what did Saddam Hussein, Milosovic and Mussolini in. Nixon too.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:44 PM

39. Papal "Infallibility" applies only to Ex Cathedra pronouncements, not every-day remarks.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:46 PM

40. STOP THE PRESSES! The Pope is making his very last state visit before his retirement!

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #40)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:57 PM

65. Well, i'm gonna share this one with a few friends with a sick sense of humor... nt

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #40)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:55 PM

76. That is ill.

And so, of course, hilarious!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:09 PM

43. oh my

this has to be what is going on here. the alternative is he has some sort of non-fatal degenerative disease that would explain why he is the first pope to do this in 600 years.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:15 PM

44. Yeah, I wondered whether or not Anonymous had hacked his e-mail. Someone has the GOODS on this guy.

And he has always creeped me out.

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Response to Trailrider1951 (Reply #44)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:16 AM

55. GMTA

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:31 PM

47. Power mongers never give it up

unless there are some horrific skeletons in their closet

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:29 PM

48. The worst part is that we even have to consider stuff like this.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:57 PM

51. I predict he will go the way of Paterno as this unfolds.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:08 AM

52. He should rot in jail...

But, I bet he never gets put on trial or even charged.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #52)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:58 AM

54. I don't think he will either. Tonight on msnbc they said he'd go to his

summer home at the end of the month and stay there until his new digs are being constructed (cloister) inside the Vatican where he will live out his days.......hidden away and safe.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #54)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:38 AM

61. And waited on hand and foot by women (nuns).

What a life, to be a man of privilege.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:19 AM

53. the best punishment

Put sanctions on the Vatican football team.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:20 AM

57. I really don't understand why Mahony would be writing to Ratzinger.

Ratzinger's office has to do with doctrine, not practice, not the society or social welfare of the church.
He would be concerned with questions of orthodoxy, not with ones of malpractice or crime within the institution.
It makes no sense. Was Mahony so desperate to find a supporter that he lighted on this narrow conservative.
In a doctrinal capacity, Ratzinger would serve well.
With respect to the purging of crime from the constructed authority of the church, he'd be the last person you'd want to write or speak to.
Ratzinger could keep the doctrine orthodox, but he is not capable of keeping the church clean and its practitioners legal.

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #57)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:28 PM

62. Any resignation or stripping a priest of his priesthood had to be reported to Ratzinger

Such removal or resignation was and is an issue of doctrine within the church, and thus under Ratzinger's control prior to becoming Pope. On the other hand, every other part of the problem would have been outside his jurisdiction and that includes assigning the Priests to what parish or other duty within any Diocese.

Under Catholic Doctrine each Bishop is a sovereign and can NOT be removed by the Pope (thus the tradition of kicking someone upstairs, i.e. you can not fire him, so you promote him to a place where he can no longer do any harm, many a Bishop became a Cardinal that way, but they are NOT listen to when it come time to elect a Pope for most Cardinals are legitimate).

Thus the Bishop of LA would have to tell Ratzinger of what ever major punishment he did to a Priest, but if all that was done was a re-assignment then there was nothing to report.

Thus the Pope, before he became Pope, would have been informed of any punishment and review any punishment to see if the punishment met the requirements of due process. Notice what would have been reported was the result of any PUNISHMENT as to the Priest, not anything about the victim. It is much like an American Appellant Court, what is in front of them is the Defendant pleading why his trial was unfair, not the victim on why the trial was fair or unfair. Ratzinger's job was to make sure any internal church trial was fair to the defendant in those trials (i.e. the priests accused of pedophilia) NOT that the procedure was fair to the victim. The victim had the option of going to the Bishop OR to a Civil Court, both outside the review by the Vatican.

Just a comment of what the Pope's position was before he became Pope and why the Bishop of LA would have contacted him AND the limits on what Ratzinger could do in those cases.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:33 AM

58. Pope Ratzinger obviously has "Republican Family Values"

Gawd Almighty...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:40 AM

59. And here we were all thinking he was just suffering from ill health.

Not.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:35 AM

60. I KNEW it! (Just like I knew there were no weapons of mass destruction.)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:31 PM

63. The Pope has had a pace maker for years and a recent operation on the pace maker

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:35 PM

64. Yeah, resigning in the middle of Lent was a huge tell. n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:01 PM

66. Am I the only one who sees disturbing parallels to Penn State? n/t

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Response to eggplant (Reply #66)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:21 PM

71. NO.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:25 PM

68. The bigger question: Why is the laity continuing to put money in the coffers and support the church?

The catholic church would be NOTHING without the people that fill the pews. Why are people still supporting the horrible institution?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #68)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:00 PM

74. Guilt, Superstition, and Comraderie

All three go a long way in promoting any social herding. Ever scan the crowd of people doing the chicken dance or the macarena (and more recently, Gangham Style)?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:46 PM

75. Who will be the new pope? Can't wait for the swimsuit competition.

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Response to urbuddha (Reply #75)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:17 PM

78. See the old pope

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:57 PM

77. My rule of thumb for Bushwhacks probably comes into play here...

It goes like this: Whatever they say, the opposite is true; and whatever they accuse others of doing, they are doing or planning to do.

This was a pretty infallible rule for judging Bushwhack statements. (Pun intended.) And I suspect--no, actually, I know it to be true-- that the Catholic Church hierarchy are much like Bushwhacks. Their authority is so illegitimate--so based on nothing, so contrived, so false--that they constantly LIE and constantly ASSERT authority that they DON'T HAVE.

Thus you can generally figure out the truth by merely reversing what they say.

I'm thinking of Benedict's statement that he made a "free" decision to "resign." I think the reverse is true--he was forced to "resign." And I think it has nothing to do with his age or infirmity. Popes don't "resign" for those reasons--or for ANY reason. They are like monarchs, and they believe themselves to be EXACTLY like monarchs, with their insistence on a "lineage" back to St. Peter--only more so. Their "lineage" is "created by God." It is not mere, physical DNA "lineage"--as with a worldly monarch. It is more absolute.

WHY Benedict was forced to resign is the question. I don't think it's the child abuse scandal, huge as that is. It could be. But Popes don't "resign" for scandals either, at least not historically (and some of those scandals have been dillies). And there has been no "smoking gun" on Benedict and the child abuse scandal, from their point of view. He has only done what every Pope for the last 1,500 years, at least, has done--covering up the crimes of prelates "for the good of the church." This is nothing new. The Roman Catholic Church is a hugely secretive, insular, monarchical institution, totally indulgent toward its own "anointed" male members, so long as they don't advocate too effectively for the poor or challenge the Church's insane, male ego-centric loathing of women. They will hide the "anointed" if they commit crimes. They will pamper them. They will, above all, not subject them to secular authorities, if they can help it. They DON'T BELIEVE in secular authority! They believe in protecting their own, because their own are "anointed" by God, in their view.

The coverups of the child abuse scandal are NORMAL procedure for the Catholic Church. They feel completely justified in maintaining this insularity of the "anointed" male establishment. A Pope simply would not "resign" for this reason (or, lo these last 600 years, for ANY reason).

I tend to think that it's the new Italian police investigation of Vatican banking that is chiefly behind this resignation. They are so far accused of having "inadequate" controls on money-laundering for "terrorists." But I think that this is just the polite or "early days" description of something quite terrible--for instance, the Vatican money-laundering for the far rightwing death squads and drug lords in Colombia (a group called "the Black Eagles" that was the underpinning of the Colombia government and its 'mafia boss' president, Bush Jr. pal, Alvaro Uribe, during the Bush Junta). Benedict "resigning" may mean his direct culpability in such money-laundering.

Popes don't even "resign" for that horrible of a scandal (profiting from death squad murders and cocaine trafficking). So probably what happened is that the combined impact of the child abuse scandal and this brewing Vatican banking scandal is so threatening to church revenues that a power faction of cardinals yanked Benedict from the stage (much like CIA Director Leon Panetta--a close associate of Bush Sr.--yanked Uribe from the stage in Colombia, probably in part to protect Bush Jr.--Uribe is a target of Colombian prosecutors, and is filthy dirty on many counts, as is Bush Jr. in Colombia, in my opinion--and also possibly to protect the CIA cocaine revenue stream and the money-laundering of U.S. banksters).

I think church revenues is the key to this "resignation." Moral culpability wouldn't matter. The pope is appointed by God, in the view of the hierarchy. He could have ten mistresses or be abusing little boys and girls himself, and it wouldn't matter. He could be funding death squads and stuffing his pockets with cocaine profits, and it wouldn't matter. Even if they couldn't cover it up--which they are very, very good at--it wouldn't matter, UNLESS parishioner donations or other sources of revenue were seriously affected.

That's my read on it. The child abuse scandal is seriously affecting parishioner donations and the banking scandal is about to seriously affect other sources of revenue.

As to the motives or makeup of a cardinal power faction that may have forced him out, it could be good or bad, as to the Church becoming a truly Christian organization and, at long last, ending its various abuses--including its long, LONG-standing hatred of women--and its utter lack of democracy. Benedict had become a tainted exponent of the Medievalist faction in the Church--so it could be the Medievalists themselves who moved against him. I hope otherwise, but we shall see. They definitely need another Pope John XXIII, who pledged to and ENACTED openness within the Church and tried to create a new era a real Christianity. What a breathe of fresh air he was! A genuine Christian as Pope! Totally amazing--but so short-lived!

If they really permit themselves to be inspired by "the Holy Spirit"--as they claim to be inspired when they elect a Pope, and whom various theologians have identified as the Mother Goddess (de-sexed and re-named long ago)--they will choose another John XXIII. Did you know that they can choose anybody--even someone who is NOT a priest? (Some wag in another DU thread suggested the recently converted Tony Blair!) (OMG!) They could even choose a woman, and drop their nutso ban on women priests. Wouldn't THAT restore revenues! Think of it! But they'll probably go with hypocritical, lying Bushwhackism, as they've done for at least 1,500 years. (Really, if you know anything about the Church circa 500 A.D., you will know how very, VERY like the Bushwhacks they were and are. They created the model.)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:36 PM

80. "Benedict, then... Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, led the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith"

The "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" was once known as... the Inquisition.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:51 PM

81. Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God, HBO's must see documentary,

will certainly clarify who and what Ratzinger's role was. Before he was pope, he held the highest position of the entity which investigated and acted upon the pedophilia crimes of the Catholic church, the same entity in earlier times was responsible for The Inquisition.

According to this documentary, the coverup & recirculation of pedophile priests was the way to go for our current Pope, and mostly his doing.

The documentary only aired a few days ago.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:54 PM

83. I'm shocked, shocked.

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