HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I think the divinity of t...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:13 AM

 

I think the divinity of the pope is questionable, but I still respect the Catholic Church

If I joined organized religion, the catholic church is one I would take a look at closely. They do a lot of charity things worldwide, and I respect that.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charities_USA

Catholic Charities is a network of charities with headquarters in Alexandria, Virginia, that aims "to provide service to people in need, to advocate for justice in social structures, and to call the entire church and other people of good will to do the same." It is one of the largest charities in the United States.

Together with the local, diocesan-associated Catholic Charities, it is the second largest social service provider in the United States, surpassed only by the federal government. Nearly 90 cents of every dollar donated to Catholic Charities agencies goes directly to programs and services. In 2008, Catholic Charities agencies served over 8 million individuals.

Pope John Paul II addressed the national conference of Catholic Charities USA in San Antonio, Texas, on September 14, 1987. His call for increased efforts on behalf of the poor and "to reform structures which cause or perpetuate their oppression" prompted coverage of the organization's activism, including, according to the New York Times, "a wide range of projects in antipoverty, legal aid, voter registration, housing and community organization."

Catholic Charities USA has endorsed the DREAM Act and the Obama administration's deferral of action against some younger immigrants.

Catholic social teaching emphasizes support for the sick, the poor and the afflicted through the corporal works of mercy. The Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of education and medical services in the world. Catholic spiritual teaching emphasizes spread of the Gospel message and growth in spiritual discipline through the spiritual works of mercy.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Say what you will about the problems of the Catholic church, and there are real problems and issues, but they do seem to concentrate on many of the right things such as charitable works, and I also know they are strongly anti-war and they said so publicly many times during the Iraq invasion, that it was immoral, etc.

20 replies, 1219 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply I think the divinity of the pope is questionable, but I still respect the Catholic Church (Original post)
quinnox Feb 2013 OP
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #1
aristocles Feb 2013 #2
TexasProgresive Feb 2013 #4
quinnox Feb 2013 #19
el_bryanto Feb 2013 #3
quinnox Feb 2013 #8
SharonAnn Feb 2013 #5
aristocles Feb 2013 #18
judy Feb 2013 #6
phantom power Feb 2013 #7
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #9
Fresh_Start Feb 2013 #14
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #15
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #10
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #17
Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #11
Smilo Feb 2013 #12
BillStein Feb 2013 #13
ananda Feb 2013 #16
Moonwalk Feb 2013 #20

Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:16 AM

1. I respect some catholics

not so much the church and its leaders

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:19 AM

2. The Pope has never been, nor is now, considered divine. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aristocles (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:21 AM

4. +100

And welcome to DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to aristocles (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:53 AM

19. I stand corrected

 

Thanks to you and the other reply that clarified this for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:20 AM

3. Very controversial.

When it comes to religion in general and Catholics in particular the correct answer is "Religion Bad. Catholics Bad."

Bryant

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to el_bryanto (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:23 AM

8. I know, but I wanted to show there are alternative opinions about this, even on DU

 

I realize that I might be accused of being heretical by posting this.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:21 AM

5. The Church doesn't claim that the pope is divine.

The Church claims that, under certain conditions, the pope is infallible.

The Church also believes that women cannot be priests or deacons. That priests cannot marry, unless they were already married when they converted from the Orthodox or the Episcopal.

The Church also says that it is a sin to practice birth control (men or women), have abortions, practice homosexuality, etc.

I call "bullshit"!

As a recovering Catholic, I constantly seek for signs that the Church is beginning to understand sexuality and all the issues around it. So far, I don't see any improvement.

There are many organizations that do good and I choose to support them. Perhaps if Catholic Charities were the only one in the world, Id support them. But they're not and I think that others even do it better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SharonAnn (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:48 AM

18. The doctrine of infallibility was declared in 1870...

 

...since then it has been used once, by Pius XII, in defining the assumption of Mary.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:21 AM

6. I agree with you about the charity work 100%

However, keep in mind that Catholic missionaries have dismantled indigenous cultures all over the world, and forced the natives to convert to Catholicism.
The Catholic Church has committed some of the worst crimes in history, including the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, the Crusades, and of course the "Holy" Inquisition.

I think the social teaching you mention, has to do more with Christianity (and the Christians who actually follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth) than with the Catholic Church per se.
I was brought up in Europe in the Catholic faith, and have very little respect for it. Though individual priests with true callings have done incredible work. But they could be of any religion, really..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:23 AM

7. The organization whose brand is enabling child molestation and fighting the enlightenment?

And forced child-birth?
And resisting birth-control, thus perpetuating our overpopulation problems?

Yeah, what's not to love?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:24 AM

9. I'd respect the church more...

if it didn't have leaders that covered up for kiddie-fiddling, demanded medieval attitudes towards LGBT rights, women's rights, contraception, abortion, etc. etc. etc.

Maladict won't be missed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backscatter712 (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:29 AM

14. For me, the breaking point was their anti-condom activities in Africa

while there was and is still raging an HIV plague.
There is no excuse for it.
The women have little enough say in their world and you fight against their attempts to save their own lives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:31 AM

15. A-fucking-men!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:25 AM

10. Questionable? It's LAUGHABLE!

Divinity?





And for all the good you attempt to attribute to this hateful, vile, organization, you overlook the evil it is wrapped up in; Child-rape, cover-up, misogyny, slave-labor....this goes on and on.

You want to join a religious group that really does good, without the bullshit dogma? Try the Unitarian Universalists.

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

http://www.uua.org/beliefs/principles/index.shtml


They are doing it right, no god needed to do the right thing, but if you believe in a god, thats great too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cleanhippie (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:41 AM

17. One of the major premises of the Catholic Church...

is intercession.

In order to get to heaven, they say you have to go through them. It's a racket that's served them well for close to two thousand years.

I'm surprised the church hasn't brought back the sale of indulgences yet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:26 AM

11. The Koch Brothers are huge patrons of the arts. Does that make them good folks?

Or is that patronage merely public relations intended to distract from the great harm being done to actual human beings?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:28 AM

12. They do a lot of good........

bull shit. The Catholic church is the wealthiest corporation and what do they do with the money - hoard it and spend it in the Vatican to make sure the top few live quite comfortably thank you very much. There are many more secular charities that do much more than the Catholic church.

As for anti-war - so is every other denomination and faith. And don't forget that it was the Catholics who came up with the "just war" - for a war to be considered just, it must meet the following criteria: have a just cause, meaning that it confronts a danger beyond question; be declared by a legitimate authority acting on behalf of the people; be driven by the right intention, not ulterior economic or other motives; be the last resort; be proportional, so that the harm inflicted does not outweigh the good achieved; and have a reasonable chance of success.

Here is an video regarding the German Catholic church and its problems (Germany is not alone) .............

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:29 AM

13. I have no respect for the church

Sorry, but the "good works" have far too many strings attached.

Perfect example: Mother Theresa, who ministered to the poor, all the while telling them that birth control- probably the best way to fight their misery- was immoral.

Or the catholic hospitals, which put the unborn ahead of the living. They have expanded by taking over other institutions and are often the only option.

Real charity does not discriminate, or ignore the greater good

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:32 AM

16. The fossilized patriarchal hierarchy is the problem.

They've hijacked the myth for their own agenda.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:02 PM

20. Those charities proselytize a religion which is anti-gay, anti-birth control, anti-women...

...and harbors pedophile priests.

I'm fine with any religion that says it's the duty of it's people to go out and help the poor. But I'm not so sure of a religion that says, "Help the poor and make them ours." Especially a religion that is behind anti-gay laws, and behind anti-contraception laws. Contraception is what gives women (and men and children) a chance to get out of poverty. Instead of always being pregnant and nursing and caring for babies, a woman gets a choice and a chance to work, be self-sufficient. It means less kids so less mouths to feed, etc. But in poor countries that need contraception this most--but where Catholicism rules, women can't get birth control. And so they and their families stay poor--and stay reliant on the church's charity! Do you see a problem with this? I do.

And those medical services the church provides? Well, they won't abort a baby even if the mother is going to die unless they do.

Many modern Catholics support contraception, homosexuality, and women in positions of power. But the Catholic Church itself, as an organization, does not. And you have only to watch the documentary "Mea Maxima Culpa" to see how toxic is the problem of pedophile priests--including those preying orphans and other children that you praise the church for caring for. The Church has not done nothing about it, but allowed it to proliferate by protecting such priests rather than stopping them.

Now if all this other stuff doesn't matter to you, if the charity work awes and impresses you enough that you want to join, that's fine by me. We all know that no organization is perfect, and as with people, we are willing to forgive them their faults in favor of their positives. But don't come here telling us that we should see this organizing though this one pair of rose-colored charity-and-peace glasses. The church isn't JUST a charity and isn't just anti-war.

There are a lot of brave nuns, good priests and liberal lay people who belong to the Catholic Church. They love their religion, and they are trying to change it from the inside. I support them in that. But they're doing so with eyes open to the faults and sins that are coming down from the very highest levels of Pope, Cardinals and Bishops. You should, too, before blindly praising any organization that old, that powerful, that rich and that influential.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread