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Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:26 AM

As a liberal Catholic, my platform for the new pope.

Somewhat realistic issues that I would hope could be addressed by the new pope.

1. A complete audit/investigation of the child abuse scandal. Remove any priest or church official that has had any serious accusation of molestation leveled against him. Turn over all documents from the investigation to appropriate law enforcement agencies.

2. Expand the role of women in the church. Allow for women as priests and deacons. Give women a greater role in the dialogue on church teachings. Tell the American Bishops to back off their attacks on the nuns.

3. An increased emphasis on social justice. There's more to Catholicism than gays and abortion. Help the poor, feed the hungry, give clothes to the naked, etc....

4. Reevaluate position on contraceptives. 3 and 4 go hand in hand. How many improvement projects in the Third World have been rejected by the church because they include funding for contraceptives?


Ultimate "pie in the sky" hope: Reevaluate position on gays and gay marriage.

41 replies, 2066 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply As a liberal Catholic, my platform for the new pope. (Original post)
charlie and algernon Feb 2013 OP
longship Feb 2013 #1
Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #3
snacker Feb 2013 #2
ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #4
onehandle Feb 2013 #5
charlie and algernon Feb 2013 #15
onehandle Feb 2013 #19
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #6
onehandle Feb 2013 #9
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #10
mn9driver Feb 2013 #7
RainbowSuperfund Feb 2013 #18
me b zola Feb 2013 #8
el_bryanto Feb 2013 #11
charlie and algernon Feb 2013 #13
el_bryanto Feb 2013 #14
yardwork Feb 2013 #16
ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #23
davidn3600 Feb 2013 #21
yardwork Feb 2013 #24
Cleita Feb 2013 #26
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #12
yardwork Feb 2013 #17
Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2013 #20
Cleita Feb 2013 #27
sadbear Feb 2013 #22
Tree-Hugger Feb 2013 #25
Cleita Feb 2013 #28
Tree-Hugger Feb 2013 #41
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #33
Tree-Hugger Feb 2013 #40
SheilaT Feb 2013 #29
Bucky Feb 2013 #30
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #34
Bucky Feb 2013 #39
arely staircase Feb 2013 #38
lindysalsagal Feb 2013 #31
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #32
ismnotwasm Feb 2013 #35
Kingofalldems Feb 2013 #36
arely staircase Feb 2013 #37

Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:31 AM

1. Probably never happen.

Nice to dream, though.

If the Vatican truly wants the Catholic Church to remain relevant, they'd, at minimum, take such suggestions very seriously.

R&K

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Response to longship (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:35 AM

3. If they really wanted to minimize abortions,

they would be in favor of giving out condoms like candy. Every church would have a big bowl for people to help themselves.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:34 AM

2. Good luck with that. nt

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:40 AM

4. As a liberal raised Catholic (and still Christian, though not Catholic)

I don't care. That institution isn't changing and is far too corrupt to be of any value. Time to get out. I ended up joining of all things a charismatic evangelical church that is still liberal-leaning. Yes, such a thing exists...but a liberal Pope will not. I follow Jesus, not a flawed man.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:42 AM

5. If they would just let priests marry, like they did for the first 325 years of the church...

...it would change the church dramatically for the better. They are running out of priests.


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Response to onehandle (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:57 AM

15. allowing women priests suddenly opens the priesthood up to over 3 billion more people

that should fill the ranks pretty quickly.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:03 AM

19. And I absolutely support that. nt

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:44 AM

6. Ah, quite frankly I see a schism coming.

No, not because of American Catholics, (though it's part of the reason). You realize your points will have you excommunicated in large sections of the Church in both Africa and Latin America? The conclave will be fascinating. Expect a push for a Latin American pope. You think Ratzinger was in the 12th century, you will see this go back to the 7th.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:47 AM

9. There was a popular, liberal South American candidate in the running last time.

Here's hoping they come to their senses.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:50 AM

10. The top tier will do their best

To keep anything from looking like liberation theology from even getting close.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:44 AM

7. Benedict has already packed the College of Cardinals

Also, he will still be alive to influence the selection of his successor. I fear the Church is looking at a generation of extreme conservative leadership.

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:03 AM

18. If that is the case, Then it's all over but the funeral for me.

If that is the case, Then it's all over but the funeral for me. But I Love me some Nuns on a bus. GO Ladies! May you land on your feet no matter what the clowns in charge do.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:46 AM

8. They should also end their participation in human trafficking

...but I really think that is the reason why they fight against women's reproductive rights to begin with, to enable their reproductive exploitation of poor and at risk pregnant women.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:51 AM

11. What is the rational for woman not being able to be priests?

Is it doctrinal or simply practice?

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:54 AM

13. the main rational I've heard is it's because Jesus' apostles were all male.

Ignoring the fact that Mary and other women were certainly as involved as the Apostles were.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:56 AM

14. nods - but I guess my point - if it is a point of doctrine

than it's a lot harder get. If it's practice than it should be changeable.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:00 AM

16. Women were leaders in the early church. The prohibition against women came much later.

Women were priests. They were apostles. There were books in the Bible written by women. Many early Christians were female martyrs. Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute. She was a leader in her community, a woman of wealth and influence. Jesus was not sexist in his teachings, quite the opposite.

All this crap against women came much later, some of it 1,000 years later.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:34 PM

23. Yes that was the #1dealbreaker for Catholicism to me

I will NEVER belong to any church that will not ordain women. Fuck tradition and whatever I was raised.

As it is I now go to a church where women not only preach, this is often while wearing jeans and a hoodie!

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:24 AM

21. Jesus was a man

At the very fundamental level, the rationale is simply that Jesus was a man and therefore a man is supposed to be the head, God's gender of choice to be spiritual leaders.

Jesus choose his 12 apostles as all men, and they chose men to succeed them. The Church considers themselves bound to this because it was the will of Jesus. It will never, ever change.

It is quite simply a patriarchal religion. Even though God is not supposed to have a gender, ask any person to draw a picture of god. Over 90% of people will likely draw an old man.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:40 PM

24. It didn't start out that way. That's what Christianity became.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:53 PM

26. I believe it's simply practice.

In the early Church, the Mass was a meal called agape that was celebrated in homes and women presided over it because they were the ones who baked the bread and prepared and served the food and wine.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:52 AM

12. Good luck with that

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:01 AM

17. A lot of American Catholics are very liberal. Thank you for exerting influence.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:13 AM

20. I'd love to see someone along the same lines as the late Cardinal Bernadin.

Who advocated strongly for social and economic justice and for a "seamless garment of life"

But given the conservative makeup of the College of Cardinals, I'm doubtful we'll see that happen. Oh well, I guess I can hope....

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:59 PM

27. They would assassinate anyone who is too liberal. I believe Pope John the XXIII, who was trying

to modernize the Church with Vatican II, was assassinated. He just died too abruptly. Supposedly he had stomach cancer, but I think he was helped along. His reforms were agitating the conservative Cardinals in the Church.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:25 AM

22. Be sure to tell your priest.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:50 PM

25. There are various Catholic denominations

I belong to an Old Apostolic Catholic Church. Same core beliefs, sacraments and Mass structure as Roman Catholicism. However, we do not view the Pope as infallible. Women are able to be ordained. We have an ordained woman at my parish. Gays are welcomed. Priests can marry. My pastor is openly gay and in a committed relationship. He performs gay wedding ceremonies, though our state does not recognize them. It's a nice place for a liberal like me who doesn't want to give up her Catholic roots.

I would hope the Roman Catholic Church moves towards something like the OACC, but I have a bad feeling that they are going to hold tight to conservatism.

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Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:00 PM

28. I'm certain the Church considers you heretics.

It sounds like a fine Church though for those who are religiously inclined.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:43 PM

41. Perhaps they do

But it is a fine Church.

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Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:22 PM

33. You can call yourselves "Kumquats," but that won't make you so. Sorry: NOT Catholic.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:40 PM

40. Tough

I call myself Catholic because I am Catholic. If that bothers you, there is nothing I can do. I know my own faith. God bless...

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:24 PM

29. Unfortunately, the word "liberal" really has not meaning if directly

in front of the word "Catholic".

I was raised a Catholic, and by the time I was 12 I knew there was something profoundly wrong with a system that put celibate (supposedly) men in charge of telling women what to do with their bodies.

Because of the structure of the Catholic Church, remaining with it while saying, "Oh, I'm liberal, I use birth control, I think women should be priests," and so on, has absolutely no impact on the Church's teachings or behaviors. And, if you're contributing money to the Church, you're only perpetuating their current teachings, the sex abuse, and so on. It's my considered opinion that unless millions of Catholics were to leave, nothing will change. It's not as though the average Catholic on the street has any impact on who gets elected Pope. So while your listing of issues that should be addressed by the new Pope are spot-on, it'll never happen.

If you have the need to be in an organized faith community, there are plenty out there which already have women pastors, emphasize real social justice, and so on.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:33 PM

30. Maybe you should look into Protestantism

There's scads of liberal Protestant denominations that are pro-gay marriage, pro-birth control, pro-social justice, ordain women, and let their pastors marry, thus providing a far broader talent pool to draw from and creating a hierarchy a bit more predisposed toward seeing child molesters punished.

Of course, if you got a deal about transsubstatiation of the wafers, you might have a problem there...

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Response to Bucky (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:23 PM

34. There are some more Doctrinal differences, Mr. Luther.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:36 PM

39. I don't think Methodists really get hung on doctrinal anything. Some are practically Unitarians.

Methodism is actually a fairly pragmatic methadone for recovering Catholics. They got women priests, gay priests, shit I think they even got a lesbian bishop stashed away somewhere in the Frost Belt. They hardly hate anybody and they encourage you to ask troubling questions, which is all but permission to come up with your own answers. If I wasn't a UU myself I'd probably go Methy. It's also a hell of a good place to get stock investment tips.

I don't literally mean "hell of a" of course.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:02 PM

38. we are pro all those things

and, though the eucharist is the high point of worship (we keep the mass), we leave room for various opinons on the host (wafers.)

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/

all the ceremony, half the guilt - robin williams

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:19 PM

31. I don't believe any of that will help real people: It will only prop up an illicit business that

only seeks to perpetuate itself at the expense of regular people.

The church's words sound holy enough, but it's actions are anything but holy.
The occasional charity is just minor window dressing.

How about selling the holdings of the vatican museum to feed, educate and clothe all of the people it claims to value so damn much?

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:20 PM

32. The Vatican's response: "None of the above."

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:26 PM

35. Perfect

Thank you

My daughter rejoined the Catholic Church and while she understands you can- and does-disagree with certain things, I think a better pope will make her more comfortable with it. I don't argue religion with her, but she's well aware I dislike the current pope. And Why.



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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:37 PM

36. Agreed. A Vatican III

and expanded ecumenism.

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Response to charlie and algernon (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:54 PM

37. number one is a given

two through four are something we take as a given, while basically keeping the same mass, as episcopalians. as such i have a lot of respect for - and understanding of - the roman church but have always found the official positions on gender and sexual/sexuality issues to be unapproachable. i (and i am on the outside looking in) find much of this due to the celibate priesthood. it seems to be the root of much of your church's current problems.

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