HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Is there something to be ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:58 AM

Is there something to be read into the Vatican announcement

All the stories coming from the Vatican cite that Ratzinger is "resigning". Interesting that they are not using the word "retiring."

18 replies, 1818 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread

Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:02 AM

1. Of course there's something to read into da Pope resigning

It isn't a common move.

Personally I think it's illness. My first thought is that he has Dementia. Because so far there's no cure for it, although with medication it can be slowed down quite a bit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:03 AM

2. Popes have always died in office.

Maybe the cardinals are ready to take him out and he'd rather just slink away.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yellerpup (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:07 AM

5. Exactly. They all have died in office, after failing health.

Very interesting.

I'd love to see that institution's greed, exploitation and corruption exposed -- beyond the sex scandals. The extraordinary wealth contrasted with poverty is disgusting.






Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:12 AM

7. The institution definitely needs to be cleaned

out right down to Q-tips in the corners. I am very suspicious of this move and can't help but wondering what sensational revelation will come out next.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:55 AM

13. you mean like the 30-day pope, john paul I?

(read david yallop's book, "in god's name" for a very mind-blowing account of his death)


Pope John Paul I

Pope John Paul I died alone in September 1978 only a month after his election to the Papacy. The suddenness of the death, and the Vatican's difficulties with the ceremonial and legal death procedures such as issuing a legitimate death certificate have resulted in several conspiracy theories.
. .

Rationale

Discrepancies in the Vatican's account of the events surrounding John Paul I's death — its inaccurate statements about who found the body, what he had been reading, when and where and whether an autopsy could be carried out, produced a number of conspiracy theories, many associated with the Vatican Bank, which owned many shares in Banco Ambrosiano.

Some conspiracy theorists connect the death of John Paul (in September 1978) with the image of the "bishop dressed in white" said to have been seen by Lucia Santos and her cousins Jacinta and Francisco Marto during the visitations of Our Lady of Fátima in 1917. In a letter to a colleague, John Paul had said he was deeply moved by having met Lucia and vowed to perform the Consecration of Russia in accordance with her vision.
Conspiracy
David Yallop's book

David Yallop's book In God's Name proposed the theory that the pope was in "potential danger" because of corruption in the Istituto per le Opere Religiose (IOR, Institute of Religious Works, the Vatican's most powerful financial institution, commonly known as the Vatican Bank), which owned many shares in Banco Ambrosiano. The Vatican Bank lost about a quarter of a billion dollars.

. . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_I_conspiracy_theories

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to niyad (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:09 AM

15. I remember this...

Thanks for the reminder!



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:32 AM

16. you are most welcome. that whole incident stank of cover-up from the very first.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:05 AM

3. Yes, a few things

Dear Brothers,
I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonizations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry. I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.

http://en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=663815


"but no less with prayer and suffering."

I take this to mean that there is some amount of guilt for not dying in office.

"both strength of mind and body are necessary"

He looks OK physically. I think this means that he's not all there or is mentally exhausted.

"I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me."

Who helped him realize this and when did the realization take place?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Renew Deal (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:41 AM

11. his doctor told him to avoid transatlantic travel a couple years ago due to heart condition

and maybe he lacks the "strength of mind" to go on lying about and protecting his child rapists. Certainly somewhere under all that fake spirituality there must be something resembling a struggling conscience, which could be wearinghim down.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:06 AM

4. Well, a distinction without a difference, IMHO.

Historically, Popes don't retire. Only very few have resigned, and not for centuries.

So, whatever one calls this, it is fairly unprecedented.

My guess: he knows he's dying and he wants to spend more time with his family.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:07 AM

6. yeah, choose younger popes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:13 AM

8. Yes. Precedent.

I think they're slowly de-deifying the role of pope. It seems that they've come to realize that having a healthy mind and body is a requirement for someone in command of a global institution. even if it doesn't jive with the whole infallibility scam that they (used to) pay lip service to.

So yes, optimistic minds could read this a sign that in this respect, the church is starting to face reality. Keep in mind, last time this happened was in the 13th century. It could very well set a healthy precedent.

As to what extent such a reading conflicts with the fact that this Pope was rather reactionary and radical, I am quite aware of that - that's why I qualified my statement with "optimistic minds".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:20 AM

9. He can't take having all that knowledge of pedophilia anymore maybe?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:36 AM

10. His brother said he was ill when he first took office. No surprise here. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:44 AM

12. 'Retire' is usually said for a post where you expect to go before death

'Resign' for times when you leave before you originally intended to.

He said 'resign' himself, in 2010:

Talk of possible resignation has been swirling around the pope ever since his 2010 book, “Light of the World,” in which he said that if a pope felt “no longer physically, psychologically, and spiritually capable of carrying out the duties of his office,” he would have “the right, and in some circumstances the obligation, to resign.”

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-04-16/national/35453866_1_german-born-pope-pope-benedict-xvi-john-paul

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:56 AM

14. I think it's all very interesting, and there are a lot of different

ways to read this announcement. I have no use for the catholic church, but it would be nice if the organization would begin to move into the current century, and get back to ministering through good works and charity instead of protecting pedophiles and worrying about what adults are getting up to behind closed doors.

Now that he's given his two-week notice, I wonder if the cardinals will throw him an awkward retirement party, complete with cake and gag gifts and a heartfelt card signed by everyone. And the minute he's out the door they'll ransack his office and take his good stapler and other office doodads.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:46 AM

17. Papal resignation...history...

from Wikipedia:

A papal resignation occurs when the reigning pope of the Roman Catholic Church voluntarily steps down from his position. As the overwhelming majority of popes hold the position until death, papal resignation is an uncommon event; five popes have resigned (though disputed evidence suggests that four additional popes may have resigned), with the most recent resignation being that of Pope Gregory XII in 1415. Resignation is envisaged as a possibility in canon 332 §2 of the Code of Canon Law and canon 44 §2 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Not Me (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:14 AM

18. There's rumor that he has Alz's

but I can't find if it's true anywhere. (mentioned several times on facebook that he had Alz's)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread