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Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:37 AM

Are we really thinking about where all this drone business leads?

Look, it's only a matter of time before other countries, some of them who are not necessarily friendly to the U.S., develop the same capability. In using drones ourselves, are we not, as a friend of mine pointed out, effectively legitimizing a non-human, completely impersonal and completely efficient method of warfare? And in so legitimizing it, are we not guaranteeing that the practice will spread?

The argument that it "saves the live of American soldiers" is a seductive one. But it occurs to me that we may be allowing ourselves to become so seduced by that argument -- much as Truman was seduced by the use of the atomic bomb, on exactly the same grounds -- that we may fail to appreciate fully what we are unleashing upon the word and upon ourselves, just as Truman failed to fully appreciate the path he was putting the world on.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Are we really thinking about where all this drone business leads? (Original post)
markpkessinger Feb 2013 OP
RobertEarl Feb 2013 #1
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #2
Oakenshield Feb 2013 #8
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #9
quinnox Feb 2013 #3
msongs Feb 2013 #4
intaglio Feb 2013 #6
NNN0LHI Feb 2013 #18
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #7
intaglio Feb 2013 #5
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #12
rcmooney Feb 2013 #10
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #11
tech3149 Feb 2013 #13
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #15
just1voice Feb 2013 #14
randome Feb 2013 #16
Skip Intro Feb 2013 #17
LanternWaste Feb 2013 #19
Motown_Johnny Feb 2013 #20
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #21

Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:41 AM

1. Robots

Do we want robots spying over our shoulders? Big Brother Robots?

I get that some people think they need Big Brother Robots to keep them safe. They have been programmed to feel that way.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:51 AM

2. They want us to get used to the idea of drones. They're building 64 drone bases within the US.

 

80 agencies have filed requests. The FBI have been using drones within the US since at least 2011. "Legal" use of weaponized drones in Yemen and Pakistan, with whom we are not at war, have resulted in at least 178 dead children and even more civilians over that age.

An increasingly slippery slope.

All drones must be destroyed.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:33 AM

8. That's a step in the right direction....

But I'm more interested in seeing the men ordering such callous strikes prosecuted first.

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Response to Oakenshield (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:36 AM

9. Sounds good to me. The policies must be eliminated. n/t

 

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:01 AM

3. Drones flying in our glorious skies

 

Protecting our loyal and patriotic citizens from harm. How could anyone object? Most of the sheep certainly won't.


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Response to quinnox (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:14 AM

4. they will be used against us...by our so called government favorites. count on it nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:38 AM

6. The government is NOT who should be scaring you

See my post 5

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Response to msongs (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:42 PM

18. Our government is fixin to attack us with drones?

Tell me you're joshing.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:46 AM

7. The single fate of all sheep. (GRAPHIC)

 


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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:36 AM

5. What do you mean by "drones"?

Some people on this site refer to anything without a human on board as a drone, this would include RC aircraft common to many hobbyists. They also include modern semi-autonomous aircraft

Now Google "Autonomous Hexacopter" and you'll find a lot of products such as this one the Eye 3 If you follow the text you will see it is pretty much self operating can be programmed to fly a route and had a payload of 5 - 10 lbs. So, for less than $1500 you, personally, can have a semi-autonomous aircraft with a live video feed.

Now let's make it really scary. A simple video camera weighs about 4oz, and a Kahr PM9 with magazine weighs 1lb add in 6 x 9mm rounds and a simple motor actuator to operate the trigger for an all up payload of less than 2lb and you would have your own, private armed UAV.

Hardly likely, I hear you say. except ...

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Response to intaglio (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:01 AM

12. And citizen possession is guaranteed by the 2nd Amend. nm

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:42 AM

10. Mexico sending a drone to a house on Breeze Hollow in 'Northwest Crossing.'


Hey, why not Mexico sending a drone to San Antonio to blow up a house on Breeze Hollow in 'Northwest Crossing.'
They can claim they are killing an escaped murderer and drug dealer from Nuevo Lareado.

Children and neighbor casualties? Just collateral damage!

All done with Mexican legally determined guidelines!

What's the difference with the US ops?

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:08 AM

11. I agree. There are just so many drawbacks and moral questions about the drones used for

killing. I don't like the thought of the drones hovering overhead either.

If we get drones overhead, it will definitely end any sense of privacy people have in their backyards. And that is not just a matter of inconvenience. That is a matter of impeding people's right to use their property as they wish as long as they are not violating the law.

Can't we have any privacy?

Our city skies are already filled with noisy helicopters too much of the time. I didn't notice it when I was working, but I notice it now because I like to be in my garden.

And sooner or later, one of the things will malfunction and fall on someone. That's just the nature of things. If our computer can crash, so could a drone, seems to me.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:48 AM

13. You bring up a major point the FAA and we modelers deal with

failures do and will occur. Most often is the failure of the power systems. Those failures can be managed on fixed wing platforms not operated in highly populated areas. Copter based designs can only rely on counter rotation to slow and control descent. None of the designs I've seen offer that capability.
As a modeler, I have no liability coverage if I fly outside the guidelines imposed by the FAA. As a government agency that liability will be assumed by we the taxpayers.

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Response to tech3149 (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:14 PM

15. I'm also concerned about blowback.

If the drones are flown at low altitude, how is our military to protect us, including our government officials, from drone attacks of various kinds. And it seems to me that a drone would not actually have to be armed with heavy ammunition to be very dangerous to targeted individuals or strategic sites.

I favor international protocols for flying and using drones and severe penalties for those nations or individuals who abuse those protocols to damage or injure others.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:58 PM

14. The U.S. is a superpower, an empire that does what it wants

 

Of course the heads of government have thought about the "blow back", they don't care. For example, remember how when Saddam Hussein was an evil tyrant because he tortured and killed "his own people" and then as soon as the U.S. invaded Iraq we set up our own torture camps and suddenly more than 1/2 the U.S. population thought it was A-OK to torture people.

The elite in this country think they can buy people's minds via propaganda and they in fact can and do. You are absolutely correct, this will come back to haunt the U.S. but when it does the "evil others" will be branded as such and we'll be branded as the poor defenseless victims just protecting ourselves, with the thought of even mentioning what caused it to happen a taboo subject banned from all corporate/government propaganda media.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:17 PM

16. First of all, drones in this country are merely surveillance aircraft. Big. Deal.

Secondly, do you really think our military would not be able to find where a drone originated from if one attacked our country?

Seriously, do you not know that we have nearly every INCH of airspace along our borders covered with spy eyes and such?

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:26 PM

17. Armed drones "over there" now, here soon.

Acceptance little by little, until it becomes too late to object.

That's how things are done.

When you think about other issues, do you see this "little by little" approach being pushed also?

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:50 PM

19. Much like the military helicopters heavily armed and commonly used against civilians?

"Acceptance little by little, until it becomes too late to object.."

Much like the military helicopters in the local LEO tables of equipment, heavily armed and commonly used against civilians?

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:52 PM

20. and our not using them will stop others... how?

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:52 PM

21. Are you talking about drones used to carry out violence or any drone

period?

Because they are two entirely different subjects.

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