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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:26 PM

Monica Quan was 28. She was beautiful. She was a basketball coach. She was engaged.

Christopher Dornan shot her and her fiancee multiple times each, killing them. Why? Because he believed Monica's father who represented Dornan in front of the Board of Rights wasn't really on his side.

I've had enough with the "he was pushed" crap, the LAPD created a monster crap, the we must try and understand him crap. I think I understand enough about him from reading his manifesto.

He murdered a beautiful young woman and her fiance who had nothing to do with any perceived or real injustice he may have suffered.

156 replies, 13379 views

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Reply Monica Quan was 28. She was beautiful. She was a basketball coach. She was engaged. (Original post)
cali Feb 2013 OP
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #1
cali Feb 2013 #3
HipChick Feb 2013 #2
seabeyond Feb 2013 #6
cali Feb 2013 #7
EOTE Feb 2013 #149
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #10
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #4
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #5
seabeyond Feb 2013 #8
cali Feb 2013 #14
timdog44 Feb 2013 #33
cali Feb 2013 #42
TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #69
dballance Feb 2013 #87
RobinA Feb 2013 #125
October Feb 2013 #74
dballance Feb 2013 #83
lillypaddle Feb 2013 #137
treestar Feb 2013 #156
JI7 Feb 2013 #16
Fumesucker Feb 2013 #17
EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2013 #23
tavalon Feb 2013 #40
hfojvt Feb 2013 #35
840high Feb 2013 #85
Number23 Feb 2013 #95
LanternWaste Feb 2013 #141
Bake Feb 2013 #145
treestar Feb 2013 #155
ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2013 #9
Squinch Feb 2013 #97
seabeyond Feb 2013 #11
JI7 Feb 2013 #20
seabeyond Feb 2013 #26
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #148
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #12
question everything Feb 2013 #13
Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #15
cali Feb 2013 #18
Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #21
JI7 Feb 2013 #28
Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #30
cali Feb 2013 #31
Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #32
wtmusic Feb 2013 #50
zappaman Feb 2013 #19
flamingdem Feb 2013 #22
warrior1 Feb 2013 #24
bayareamike Feb 2013 #25
Amonester Feb 2013 #43
FSogol Feb 2013 #27
steve2470 Feb 2013 #29
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #34
cali Feb 2013 #36
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #39
bluesbassman Feb 2013 #41
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #44
Maynar Feb 2013 #48
mwrguy Feb 2013 #46
cali Feb 2013 #66
mwrguy Feb 2013 #73
cali Feb 2013 #75
mwrguy Feb 2013 #81
zappaman Feb 2013 #100
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #127
RZM Feb 2013 #58
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #68
RZM Feb 2013 #77
zappaman Feb 2013 #59
plethoro Feb 2013 #89
JI7 Feb 2013 #92
plethoro Feb 2013 #94
RZM Feb 2013 #98
cali Feb 2013 #96
plethoro Feb 2013 #102
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #106
RZM Feb 2013 #108
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #111
RZM Feb 2013 #112
plethoro Feb 2013 #110
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #113
plethoro Feb 2013 #116
oldbanjo Feb 2013 #101
plethoro Feb 2013 #105
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #107
plethoro Feb 2013 #114
geardaddy Feb 2013 #140
Aerows Feb 2013 #37
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #38
wtmusic Feb 2013 #45
seabeyond Feb 2013 #52
wtmusic Feb 2013 #56
seabeyond Feb 2013 #61
wtmusic Feb 2013 #63
seabeyond Feb 2013 #71
wtmusic Feb 2013 #76
JI7 Feb 2013 #79
seabeyond Feb 2013 #84
seabeyond Feb 2013 #82
REP Feb 2013 #119
JI7 Feb 2013 #55
wtmusic Feb 2013 #57
JI7 Feb 2013 #62
wtmusic Feb 2013 #65
JI7 Feb 2013 #70
joshcryer Feb 2013 #117
plethoro Feb 2013 #123
RandiFan1290 Feb 2013 #47
cali Feb 2013 #53
HappyMe Feb 2013 #129
cantbeserious Feb 2013 #49
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #51
budkin Feb 2013 #54
cali Feb 2013 #60
LisaL Feb 2013 #91
plethoro Feb 2013 #93
PDJane Feb 2013 #64
cali Feb 2013 #72
polly7 Feb 2013 #80
plethoro Feb 2013 #88
naaman fletcher Feb 2013 #67
rocktivity Feb 2013 #78
Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #86
plethoro Feb 2013 #90
justiceischeap Feb 2013 #104
Bucky Feb 2013 #99
abelenkpe Feb 2013 #103
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #109
Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #128
shcrane71 Feb 2013 #153
zappaman Feb 2013 #115
RZM Feb 2013 #118
zappaman Feb 2013 #120
plethoro Feb 2013 #121
ecstatic Feb 2013 #122
Squaredeal Feb 2013 #124
cali Feb 2013 #126
zappaman Feb 2013 #133
HappyMe Feb 2013 #130
valerief Feb 2013 #131
Dash87 Feb 2013 #132
zappaman Feb 2013 #134
Dash87 Feb 2013 #135
zappaman Feb 2013 #136
Dash87 Feb 2013 #144
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #138
eternal being. Feb 2013 #139
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2013 #142
samsingh Feb 2013 #143
classof56 Feb 2013 #146
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #147
chameleon32 Feb 2013 #150
cali Feb 2013 #152
patrice Feb 2013 #151
treestar Feb 2013 #154

Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:27 PM

1. That earned you 5 hearts from me nt

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:29 PM

3. thank you

so very much.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:28 PM

2. People get murdered everyday in this country


by the Police Force...

i wonder how many families still have heartbreak because they never got justice

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Response to HipChick (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:31 PM

6. wow. nt

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Response to HipChick (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:31 PM

7. and that has nothing to do with the op.

It is not a defense of police killings. Nor does it diminish the pain they feel.

Totally off point. Not germane. Useless.

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:41 PM

149. Who is defending Dorner's killings?

No one I've seen here. They're saying that he is bringing up important points about the vileness of the LAPD. Just as you are not defending the sociopaths at the LAPD, the ones who say that Dorner brings up many good points are not defending the murders that he's committed. Have you really been seeing people who are defending Dorner's murders?

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Response to HipChick (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:33 PM

10. I think it betrays a certain intellectual weakness


to lack the ability to make simple moral judgements in the face of unrelated judgements.

It is a courageous DUer indeed who is capable of saying "Dorner is a murderer" without adding a "but" or an "although" or otherwise coloring his guilt by the actions of others.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:29 PM

4. Well...she could have been average, 47, single, and a cashier at Safeway...does it matter?

No offense, but I hate it when people imply that only the beautiful and bright are to be mourned.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:30 PM

5. totally agree

As if some lives are more valuable than others.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:32 PM

8. ya. i was wondering if the fiance was beautiful, also. but.... i was letting that go. lol. nt

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:34 PM

14. That is an excellent point.

but if she had been, I would have found some other way to humanize her. If she had children, I would have emphasized she was a Mother. If she volunteered, I would have emphasized that.

I was not implying that only the beautiful and bright are to be mourned. I was humanizing her with the characteristics I knew

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Response to cali (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:53 PM

33. I knew exactly what you meant.

Can't believe there is any discussion.
And you get a heart from me.

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Response to timdog44 (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:10 PM

42. thank you timdog for the heart and mostly thank you

for understanding my intent.

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Response to cali (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:41 PM

69. OK. I have a peeve about the media, in particular, elevating some deaths

and tragedies above others, depending on the perceived worth of the deceased.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #69)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:15 PM

87. You're OT Now: However, That Sounds Like a Great Subject for Your Own Thread.

Not so much a good subject for replies on this thread or on the topic of this thread though, in my opinion.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #69)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:07 PM

125. This Is One

of many reasons I hate, hate, hate "victim impact statements" in criminal court. So if I drunkenly mow down with my car a homeless man with no family it's less of a crime than if I mow down a pregnant mother of two with a grieving husband, kids and parents? Leave the pathos to civil court.

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Response to cali (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:47 PM

74. I knew what you meant. Heavens!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and many people use the term to describe the WHOLE person - inside and out.

I don't see how being a coach or being a cashier makes anyone LESS of a human being. I think you would've posted her job, no matter what.



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Response to cali (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:12 PM

83. Gees, I Didn't Think You Implied She Was Better than Others

at all. I might have typed the same title myself without giving it that sort of thought. I just thought you were mourning a person who was murdered for no good reason.

Sometimes on here it baffles the heck out of me how some of my posts are read in such a completely different way than I meant them though.

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Response to cali (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:42 PM

137. Don't even bother to explain

My granddaughter is beautiful. Guess I'm "sexualizing" her. Some people don't know when to give it a rest. You're comment is entirely appropriate.

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Response to cali (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:35 PM

156. true and there is always some sense that the deaths of young people

are more tragic, which they are, at least to those of us who already know we've had a lot more time than she did. Her life was supposed to be starting.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:34 PM

16. people who know her said she was beautiful but not based on how she looked

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:36 PM

17. It's so hard to say just one thing

I know what cali meant and thought she was saying and I agree with it but her actual words carried a different weight depending on your perspective.



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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:41 PM

23. I know lots of beautiful people at DU

And I don't know what any of them appear as physically. Beautiful can mean a lot of things. Just sayin.

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Response to EvolveOrConvolve (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:02 PM

40. Yep, that's why I didn't bristle at Cali's description

I got from word one that she was humanizing her. And her explanation said just that.

And yeah, I've "met" and met people from DU and many of them, if not most, are beautiful, articulate, passionate people. And actually, for me, beauty is what is inside. I know that sounds homily like but it's real for me. Especially in my personal life - I was married to two very attractive (in the traditional sense) men who were pretty arm candy but not very deep. My last husband (recently estranged) is not classically beautiful but kind and gentle and sweet and when he smiles, the world lights up. He was the best husband I ever had. Whenever he gets through what he's doing right now, I have no doubt his deep soul will reassert itself. While I don't believe it's best that we get back together, I won't necessarily have a front row seat to his return to mental health, but while I've lost much trust in him, my faith in his basic goodness is unshaken.

I myself was pretty as a young woman - I was just looking through old pictures and some of them were surprisingly breathtaking and yet, I never thought that was what was a very interesting thing about me. I built my house upon my spirit and intelligence and my kindness to others and to myself and, of course, my political warrior spirit. I find that has great benefits now, as I head toward my fiftieth birthday. My youthful looks are vanishing but my grandmother's laughing and joyful face is replacing it and as she was the only true mother I ever had, to look in the mirror and see her beginning to show in my face is easy to take.

Boy did I digress. Sorry, but it got me to thinking about beauty in all it's forms.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:54 PM

35. yes, she needs to have a face

that launches a thousand drones.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:14 PM

85. +1

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:54 PM

95. Fabulous points. All of them.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:11 PM

141. When at a wake and the deceased is described as bright and beautiful, do you infer in that case too

When at a wake and the deceased is described as bright and beautiful, do you infer in that case also they are implying that only the beautiful and bright are to be mourned...?

No offense, but I find it frustrating when people are unable or unwilling to differentiate between 'imply' and 'infer'.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:15 PM

145. Like Ray Stevens sang years ago, Everybody's Beautiful.

In their own way. Everybody's beautiful. Every life matters.

Bake

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:33 PM

155. good point, it does not matter

Dornan did not have the right to kill anyone.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:32 PM

9. No getting around this...he murdered people who had nothing to do

with what the LAPD may or may not have done regarding Dorner's claims.

Very sad for Ms. Quan, her fiance, and everyone who loves and cares about them. My condolences to them all.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:58 PM

97. And it wasn't even a case of people being caught in a crossfire. He deliberately chose people

who had never done anything to him. His plan depended on it, so he could hurt the people who loved the ones he killed.

That takes a special kind of cold to do that.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:33 PM

11. i told my hubby last night those defending and even rootin' for this guy.

he couldnt believe it.

what, a murderer? he asked. puzzled. not at all getting defense of the murderer.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:41 PM

20. some claim they aren't defending what he did but we need the message

or some crap like that. which is stupid as this guy has NO credibility .

but this is like that gun rights woman who had to make up stories about mothers with assault weapons protecting their kids. or the fake newtown dad who isn't really a newtown dad. people in these cases can also say "but how about thier message" . well they lost crediblity and with Dorner it's even worse as he took the life of at least 2 people who had nothing to do with whatever his complaints are that he and others seem to think justifies what he is doing.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:44 PM

26. he is a murderer. no more or less, when it comes to this situation. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:36 PM

148. Some people only read SO deep into an issue.

Victims are victims, and they shouldn't be overlooked, and cannot be ignored. Not even if every last allegation he made was true, did he have a right to do what he did to them. Not even IF and that's a pretty big-assed 'if'.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:33 PM

12. I remember when I posted the story about her being shot before we knew who did it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022312600

Just another murder to some (one person asked me 'slow day'?)

Murder here, drone attacks abroad where innocents die, are so common place now it is easy to go right past a story.

Guessing this one would have been forgotten as well had some cops not been killed and gotten scared.

This one seemed off as there was no real motive at the time.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:33 PM

13. Her father must be devastated

for his daughter to be murdered because... she was his daughter. And by someone whom he defended.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:34 PM

15. There was a thread posted the other day...

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:37 PM

18. I don't understand the practice of

responding to posts with something that is so tenuously connected. You want to kick that thread about that tragic injustice, kick it, but it really has nothing to do with my op.

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Response to cali (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:41 PM

21. It has to do with the unfortunate reality of being related to someone that is the target

of someone else.

It doesn't get much more relevant than that does it?

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:45 PM

28. well, in this case Monica and her boyfriend WERE the Target of Dorner

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Response to JI7 (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:47 PM

30. The actual target was her father, the point being to make him suffer

Pretty sure he accomplished that don't you?

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:48 PM

31. and how hateful, vile and sick is that?

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Response to cali (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:49 PM

32. It doesn't get any worse n/t

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Response to cali (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:23 PM

50. Favored mob tactic. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:41 PM

19. DU Rec

and kick!

Thank you for posting this!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:41 PM

22. Dornan is not a victim, he's a victimizer and sick in the head nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:43 PM

24. Thank you Cali

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:43 PM

25. Say it over and over.

It is sick to see the support that has popped up for Dorner on Facebook, Twitter, and even right here on DU. At the end of the day, Dorner is a triple homicide suspect and is the guilty party in this story.

The people he murdered were not guilty parties. Monica Quan did not abuse Dorner in any way; her fiance did not wrong him; the Riverside police officer whom he shot and killed was not a member of the LAPD, the department he claims screwed him over. Dorner is a hypocrite and a murderer. He claims he only wants to settle a score with the LAPD, and then murders three innocent people in cold blood. That is not justice.

At worst, Dorner was wrongfully terminated from his job with the LAPD. Big deal. If everyone went on killing sprees because they felt they were fired for the wrong reason (or no reason at all), this country would not have survived the Great Recession. Lucky for us, most people are not killers. Christopher Dorner is.

Let's not lose sight of the facts in this story. Dorner is a murder suspect and the lives of those three innocent people have been stolen. The lives of their families and friends have been horribly scarred.

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Response to bayareamike (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:11 PM

43. Sums it up in four para's. Thank you. -eom

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:45 PM

27. K&R. n/t

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:46 PM

29. K&R nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:54 PM

34. Do you think Dorner really did it? I'm starting to question everything out there.

How can the police not catch him? He returned 8000.00 in lost money to a N. Korean church in 2002, gets fired for turning in a fellow officer for brutality, and then FIVE years later goes off the deep end? That seems rather bizarre, as did the so-called "manifesto".

Another retired LAPD officer on RT television said that the writing styles in the letter change, and it appears to have been written by several different people.

Monica Quan's killer should be found and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I pray for her family.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:56 PM

36. yes. he did it. no need for CT shit here. He did it.

Whatever else may not be clear, that is. RT television is not a real source for information.

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Response to cali (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:02 PM

39. Connecticut??? Where is that association coming from?

Invalidate whatever media source you want. Many people will still watch RT television, DemocracyNow, and listen to Pacifica radio -- especially DU readers.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:07 PM

41. CT refers to "Conspiracy Theory". n/t

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Response to bluesbassman (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:14 PM

44. Ah, thank you. Yeah, never question what the LAPD or the MSM says is the honest truth.

All media outlets only report facts with complete objectivity and fairness.

I was just reading this DU thread which supports the above statement:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525506

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #39)


Response to shcrane71 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:18 PM

46. We'll probably never know for sure.

Dorner will be dead without a trial.

His truck and everything in it was burned to a cinder.

The department collecting evidence and hunting him down is the same one that burned him for being a whistle-blower.

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Response to mwrguy (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:39 PM

66. Whistle-blower? Maybe. Maybe not. I tend to doubt he was that

having carefully read his manifesto.

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Response to cali (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:46 PM

73. 'maybe, maybe not' is exactly it.

Perhaps that was his manifesto and he's a murderous nutcases.

Perhaps someone else wrote it to discredit him and slander a bunch of good progressives like Dianne Feinstein at the same time.

I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

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Response to mwrguy (Reply #73)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:49 PM

75. Have you even read it?

I am convinced he wrote it. I think your ct shit is just silly.

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Response to cali (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:10 PM

81. I read the whole thing.

I have nothing else of his to compare it to.

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Response to cali (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:02 PM

100. Silly?

You are being too kind!

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Response to mwrguy (Reply #46)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:26 PM

127. Add another to the "Dorner is a victim and whistleblowing hero"

pile of moral excrement here at DU.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:30 PM

58. Thanks for the laugh

 

I love it.

Dorner turned in money years ago and was fired from his job. Clearly, given this information, we have to conclude that he might not have done this.



Bonus points for the RT reference, BTW.

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Response to RZM (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:39 PM

68. So you believe that the LAPD is seriously going to re-look at the grievance filed in 2008?

mmmKay. Takes all kinds.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #68)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:57 PM

77. I have no idea

 

What does that have to do with the skepticism you expressed upthread?

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:30 PM

59. Wow.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:43 PM

89. I no longer am as sure as I was. I think he's being framed. Think in the abstract about

 

everything that has happened. Something is wrong. Did a Mark Furman type take someone out because Dorner was about ready to release damaging info taking down the top of the Blue Sespool? Starting to be a real possibility.

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Response to plethoro (Reply #89)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:51 PM

92. how is this different from those who claim Obama staged Sandy Hook and killed the pro gun people

who have recently died getting shot etc ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:54 PM

94. You got it! One more web..................nft

 

dddddddddd

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Response to JI7 (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:00 PM

98. Dorner truthers . . .

 

Should have seen this coming, frankly.

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Response to plethoro (Reply #89)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:55 PM

96. why is it a real possibility? What evidence do you have

that makes this a possibility? Please link to it.

And no, I don't buy your conspiracy theory for a nanosecond. He had five years to release damaging info. He didn't. and there is no indication that he was the type of person who waited on anything.

almost anything is possible. That does not make it remotely likely.

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Response to cali (Reply #96)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:04 PM

102. I lived there where the LAPD sespool was fomenting. You are a remote poster

 

on a bulletin board who has a propensity for jumping to conclusions. Thank you for your post. Another will not be necessary.

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Response to plethoro (Reply #89)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:32 PM

106. There's just something about what's going on that doesn't sit right.

Why open fire on innocent civilian trucks? Did you hear the All Things Considered piece on this on Friday? Even NPR is using the term "alleged" prior to shooter when referring to Dorner. The ATC journalist sounded as shocked as I was when learning that an incident from 2008 would instigate a murder spree five years later.

The whole thing is bizarre.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #106)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:36 PM

108. Using 'alleged' is par for the course

 

Otherwise you could be in lawsuit territory.

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Response to RZM (Reply #108)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:41 PM

111. As it should be, don't you think?

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #111)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:42 PM

112. Yes n/t

 

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #106)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:39 PM

110. No. Do you happen to have that piece? I sure would like to listen to it. Based on LAPD's panic

 

reaction you would think Dorner killed the Pope.

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Response to plethoro (Reply #110)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:42 PM

113. I listened to it on my local FM station on Friday night.

It should be on their website: http://www.npr.org All Things Considered is the name of the program.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #113)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:46 PM

116. Copy that. Thanks...........nft

 

dddddddddddd

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:02 PM

101. The final straw may be the Navy not letting him

continue, they may have let him out with no chance to get a pension.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:30 PM

105. He's being referred to as the "Dark Knight"

 

on Twitter. One Facebook page calls him "the hero LA deserves, but not the one it needs right now ... He's a silent guardian, watchful protector against corruption, he's our Dark Knight." I don't know about that, but there is enough unusual aspects of this case that there needs to be an in-depth investigation as to his guilt, at least. Surely, the vultures can pause until it's known whether he killed anyone or not. When stuff like this happens, I always study the public's response. I refuse to believe so many people are supporting this guy without some overt or innate reason. Are we now in Guilty until proven Innocent mode? He for sure cannot be "walked in" by Charlie Sheen or anyone. He'd be popped in a heartbeat by LAPD.

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Response to plethoro (Reply #105)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:36 PM

107. I fear he's probably already dead. The problem with convicting someone like this

prior to getting all the facts is that an innocent man can die for the deeds of another. We'd be none the wiser.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #107)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:45 PM

114. Yeah. Maybe dead and in a bag full of rocks in LA Harbor. That might

 

work for LAPD, but if they frag him on sight, he becomes a powerful martyr and LAPD better change or get ready for being more careful when they approach windows of cars for speeding. One of my diabetics in Japan emailed me. They are apparently following this closely. If I was LL Cooljay I wouldn't even leave the house.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:08 PM

140. North Korean?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:59 PM

37. Innocent people getting murdered

are innocent people getting murdered, and you are absolutely right that it doesn't matter what "motivations" he "may" have had. He still shot them. They are just as dead regardless, and who did what to him excuses nothing. Going on a damn shooting rampage isn't excusable.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:01 PM

38. k&r

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:15 PM

45. There's a difference between rooting for him and understanding the motive.

We've all been pushed over an edge, even if we haven't dealt with it in the same way. Anyone who says they can't relate to that feeling is lying.

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:25 PM

52. i have never been "pushed" over the edge. so do not include me in that "y'all". nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:29 PM

56. You've never lost your temper?

You're the first person I've met.

Both are losing control. Though everyone here thinks they wouldn't be capable of that, no one has walked in his shoes, have they?

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:32 PM

61. no, it is not going over the edge. i have always been aware and chose my action,

even in anger.

and yes, i KNOW i am not capable or willing to go on a murdering rampage, for any reason. lol

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:35 PM

63. Oh please

You've always been in control, and never done anything you've later regretted.

Uh-huh.

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #63)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:44 PM

71. this is feeling like people that say... we are all capable (willing) of cheating on our mate.

they just do not want to hear that no, a lot of us are not.

you keep moving the bar on this. we went from over the edge, to loss of control, to regret. lol

have i ever gotten angry and the regretted the choices i made? ok.

had nothing to do with physical abuse. had nothing to do with mental abuse. maybe the extent is yelling and cussing. sure.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #71)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:54 PM

76. Funny, all the people I know who have cheated on their mate

have once insisted to me how totally incapable they were of cheating on their mate.

I know I won't convince you of this, but you really have no idea what you're capable of until you've been through someone else's experience.

I would bet Dornan never thought he was capable of this, either.

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #76)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:02 PM

79. he has a history of being violent and just being an aggressive asshole if he doesn't get his way

his manifesto is full of violent thoughts and actions.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:13 PM

84. but that is just ALL of us. i hate that logic. nt

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #76)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:12 PM

82. how old do we have to get to say.... see

It is so easy to dismiss, justify, excuse with your logic. Not a chance. People all the time experience horrors and make it thrum a lifetime not making these selfish self satisfying choices.

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #63)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:52 PM

119. I've never murdered anyone, if that's what you mean

And yes, I've been in a similar situation. I didn't resort to violence of any kind; I resorted to using the regulatory agencies and other legal remedies. I do regret I put up with what I'd been putting up with for as long as I did before I took action.

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:29 PM

55. from what i have read he wasn's pushed over the edge, he is just a thug who wants to kill

and looking to use known problems like corrupt LAPD as an excuse.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:30 PM

57. I'd like to see wherefrom you're getting that opinion. nt

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:33 PM

62. based on the manifesto and him not doing anything like going to media

or anyone else or even just make a website to expose police corruption.

and first killing 2 people who had nothing to do with police corruption. yeah the boyfriend was a cop but he had just graduated last summer and worked security at usc.



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Response to JI7 (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:38 PM

65. It's very possible he did "make a website"

We don't know what options he's explored, but I would bet that anything he might have tried along those lines went nowhere.

Without condoning his actions - at all - I think it's very possible to relate to being helpless to right a wrong.

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #65)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:42 PM

70. not really, he did leave behind a manifesto, why not include all his attempts

at doing something about it in it ?

instead it's all about him wanting to harm and kill others.

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Response to wtmusic (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:48 PM

117. His friends painted a pretty negative image of him.

It wasn't like he was a calm relaxed guy, he was a bully. Many people who go into law enforcement tend to be.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #55)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 09:32 PM

123. I read just the opposite--..........nft

 

dddddddd

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:20 PM

47. Oh the hugh-vanity!

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:27 PM

53. this seems to be a chorus you like to sing

This is a discussion board. You don't seem to have much to say beyond your vanity whines.

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:38 PM

129. So, in other words -

you got nothing.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:22 PM

49. Easy Access To Guns And A Retribution Society That Mimics The Wild West

What Can Anyone Add To That.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:23 PM

51. Yeah, the semi-supportive threads about this guy are surprising

 

NOTE: I am not suggesting anyone here SUPPORTS him. I just find it surprising that so many take anything he has to say seriously.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:28 PM

54. Why kill the family and not the cop alone?

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Response to budkin (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:32 PM

60. because he had that much hate for the lawyer

he wanted to create as much suffering as he could.

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Response to budkin (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:46 PM

91. It's in his manifesto.

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Response to budkin (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:52 PM

93. The manifesto says that

 

(speaking as Dorner about Lawyer Randall Quan)(paraphrasing) "I never got to have a family because of you....I'll take yours..." which I wonder about. More professional readers are now thinking the manifesto may have been written by multiple persons, which accounts for the now LAPAD panic, the shooting of not even closely resembling suspects, and now a million dollars bounty. Something is up and is coming out soon, I suspect.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:36 PM

64. I can feel some sympathy for the cop, and still be heartbroken over the damage he's caused.


Yes, the young woman's death is a waste of potential, and a disaster for the families.

Yeah, I feel more than a little sorry for the shooter. I hate the shit that's coming out about the police hunting him; it's clear they want him dead, not alive. That means that some of what he has to say is likely to be true.

That doesn't mean I'm ignoring his victims, or that the horrendous nature of his crimes is somehow more (and those victims less) because I do feel some kind of compassion for him.

Why does it have to be one or the other? As an adult, I am supposed to be able to see both sides of a situation, and have some compassion in the process.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #64)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:46 PM

72. I think justifying or defending him is wrong. Very few things are simple for me.

this is. He's sadistic. He killed who he killed to cause as much suffering as possible. He's filled with hate and he holds grudges tight to his chest- from elementary school.

His manifesto isn't really about civil justice, it's all about how wonderful he is and how wronged he's been.

And no, as an adult there is no requirement that one see both or all sides to every single situation. I see it as important to
examine a situation critically and if possible, come to a conclusion about said situation.

My compassion for hate filled murderers is limited- and he's demonstrated that he is full to the brim with hate.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #64)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:08 PM

80. That's just how I feel.

Last edited Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:13 AM - Edit history (2)

He did something completely horrific and needs to pay for that, the loss of three lives and the impact on the families is tragic and beyond sad.

Trying to understand what might have driven him, or anyone, to do something like this doesn't take away from the wrongness of what he did at all. It's not like understanding hasn't ever had it's benefits. Look at the school shootings a few years ago where bullying was thought to be a contributor ... did we learn something from that? I believe so, I also think it helped bring the issue of bullying to the public's attention. And no-one made the shooters 'heroes'. I don't feel guilty or wrong for having a little compassion for him, either. If what he says happened to him is true and it led to a deep depression, as I've been reading ... it's a little easier to understand why someone might go over the edge. Which STILL doesn't lessen the horror of what he did.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #64)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:29 PM

88. Undoubtedly, there is a plethora of information on Randall Quan and

 

and Michelle Quan that went to Anderson Cooper. I don't know about the daughter--at least nothing other than what I've heard--but the father was famous for being a crook himself and defending every thug cop on the LAPD. I lived in the Rampart District for years when I first came to California. Virtually everyone of those jerks were Mark Furman types. They killed, tortured, set up people with drugs, raped defendants--everything you can think of. They did the same for years afterwards. These are the goons Captain Quan, later Attorney Quan defended. I've read Dorner's manifesto a few times. I think he finally snapped from years of being in the LAPD sespool. He should have taken out the father, not the daughter, but when a man snaps he does what his snapped mind tells him. Then again, was Dorner framed, as is being considered now? Why has LAPD not said one word about the unusual way Michelle and her husband were taken out? Why didn't Dorner just shoot them out in the open? Now, there's a million dollar bounty on Dorner. LAPD wants him so bad they are will to kill people stat who may be him even though they don't look like him or drive a truck the same color as his old one. My hunch is there is way more to come out about this story. Cooper's package is probably being sat on by the LA politicos--a vicious lot. But the public has cut Dorner a lot of slack based on his manifesto and what is known about him. I'm waiting for the dossier on Randall Quan to be released and then I'll either affirm how I feel now or ameliorate it somewhat. Beware the hysteria and the hysterics.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:39 PM

67. I agree

 

But let's not forget, right now there is a crime spree going on across the LA area. Three random people shot, and hundreds of homes broken into.

the culprit is the LAPD.

Right now, I am far more fearful of the LAPD than I am of Christopher Dornan.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:57 PM

78. And he's been stewing about this for FIVE YEARS

Heaven only know what else he's got up his sleeve...


rocktivity

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:14 PM

86. It reminds me of the movie Natural Born Killers.

It's amazing how society can glamorize murder in a way where it turns the murderer into the victim. This is a sad story all around - but the fact some are defending his actions, or idolizing those actions, is absolutely, positively disgusting.

This man might have many problems - many undeserved problems, even - but that does not make him a hero or an anti-hero or whatever the hell you want to call him. He's a murderer.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #86)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 07:46 PM

90. Oh, really? I thought he was suspected of murder?....nft

 

dddd

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #86)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:26 PM

104. I've been to maybe 2 church services as an adult

And the first time I went to the Unitarian Church, the pastor had seen Natural Born Killers just prior to his Sunday sermon. So, my first Unitarian sermon was how inside all of us lives a natural born killer. It's just finding that one thing that will push any rational, sane person over the edge. It usually involves defending someone we love, like our spouse or children.

It was interesting and thought provoking to say the least.

I am not defending Dorner but I think something happened that pushed this man over the edge (obviously). Just because this happened 5 years ago, doesn't mean something couldn't have happened recently that was basically the straw.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:01 PM

99. Get that murderer's image off the news. Show this picture instead

Two ambitious kids, in love, planning their lives, trying to be good people.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:23 PM

103. Dorner admitted to killing people?

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #103)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:38 PM

109. Online, I guess. And nobody's identity has ever been stolen online.

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Response to shcrane71 (Reply #109)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:27 PM

128. So why isn't Dorner sitting in an FBI office, chatting them up to clear his name?


You apologists and CTers are really pretty sad.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #128)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:31 PM

153. Why did Gov. Ryan pardon death row inmates? Oh, he saw that the majority of them

were having their convictions overturned by DNA evidence, and he didn't want innocent blood on HIS hands. Unfortunately, many people cannot fathom that ALL people, even ones that the LAPD says are the most dangerous evil-doers to ever live, deserve a day in court.

I don't hear you saying how sorry it is that two elderly ladies who were just delivering newspapers were sprayed with bullets. You don't care about justice.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:46 PM

115. Cali, sorry that your thread has drawn out the CTers

I suppose it had to happen.
It is both saddening and infuriating that people would rather believe this man was somehow set up, then believe he is a cold blooded killer.
Just as vile as the Sandy Hook Truthers...

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Response to zappaman (Reply #115)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:51 PM

118. This thread seems to have birthed the Dorner truther movement n/t

 

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Response to RZM (Reply #118)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:55 PM

120. First I've seen of it!

Wonder how many more DUers will climb aboard?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #115)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:56 PM

121. I think it's been referred to colloquially as "Innocent Until Proven Guilty". I'm

 

sure Black's Law has some reference to it if you'd care to widen your understanding.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 09:06 PM

122. As much as I distrust the police and believe the LAPD is corrupt, I'm disturbed

by the way the media is releasing "cute" little tidbits of his manifesto, like which celebs and movies he likes. Other nutjobs are watching and I think we're going to end up seeing a lot more of this in the future.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:00 PM

124. LAPD Created the Monster

...when they hired him.

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Response to Squaredeal (Reply #124)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:25 PM

126. huh? care to explain that claim?

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Response to Squaredeal (Reply #124)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:16 PM

133. wow.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:40 PM

130. k&r

Spot fucking on.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:08 PM

131. If only everyone had a million guns, this could be prevented.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:13 PM

132. This is the kind of psychos they let in the LAPD.

There's more where he came from. I can't believe people are praising Dornan - he's exactly what his manifesto rails against - a bullying, psychotic, roid-raging sociopath who enjoys the pain of others.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #132)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:17 PM

134. It's also the kind of psycho the LAPD throws out.

Right?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #134)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:28 PM

135. Unfortunately, not if you know the right people.

Not if you're one of the favorites.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #135)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:29 PM

136. But he was thrown out, correct?

Or do I have that wrong?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #136)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:10 PM

144. He was a member of the LADP. Too little too late to fire him later.

In a competent police force, why was he hired to begin with? Why did he last so long? Why did the LAPD just shoot 2 innocent people, and almost shoot a third?

It sounds like the LAPD is a mess right now, and Dorner seems like a symptom of a problem, along with being a nutjob.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:44 PM

138. When I heard they were going to reexamine his being fired,....

I knew it would open a can of worms.

Then I thought it may be a ploy to get him to stop his killing spree. Kind of like the last scene in "Hard to Kill" where Stone has a gun to the Senators head and they tell him they know he was set up.

The problem with that logic is if they said he was unjustly fired it may INCREASE his killing spree.

When are we going to just admit we need better screening of the cops?

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:21 PM

142. Thank you

The "This is bigger than them" bullshit makes me fucking sick.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:00 PM

143. i tried expressing my outrage at this monster and my comment was hidden by jury decision

i really think society should focus on helping victims over the criminals

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:09 PM

146. This was a senseless murder of two completely innocent and worthwhile human beings.

The killer is (IMO) a psychopath who does not deserve to walk the face of the earth. Sorry about his sad story, but his decisions are his responsibility and his alone. I will hold out hope he'll soon be captured and rendered unable to take any more lives. Perhaps important lessons will be learned on many levels, but facts are facts. He committed the senseless murder of two completely innocent and worthwhile human beings. For me, it's that simple.

Blessings to all my fellow DUers.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:35 PM

147. Reading his manifesto, he is clearly bent.

What caused him to become bent, I can only guess. Could he have been mistreated by the system thereby leading to it? I don't know. I do expect a full investigation of the LAPD and it's training, as well as officer supervision procedures. Better safe than sorry.


But did any of his victims deserve what happened to them? Oh hell no, and for that he will have to answer. Even if what he alleged is true, which I am not willing to grant, he still wouldn't be justified in the acts of violence he perpetrated.

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Response to chameleon32 (Reply #150)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:41 PM

152. I'm sorry about your cousin and what you endured.

but I can read. I am familiar with how putrid the LAPD has been and still is. And Dorner has killed people who had jackshit to do with any injustice done him. As a matter of fact, he killed other black people.

He acted as judge, jury and executioner.

I hope he gets his day in court.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:30 PM

151. Thank, for the info, cali. K&R!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:33 PM

154. +1 there are no excuses for this Dornan guy

None whatsoever. The LAPD may have its problems, but nothing justifies his actions.

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