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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:13 PM

 

Message hidden by jury decision

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Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply Message hidden by jury decision. (Original post)
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 OP
hlthe2b Feb 2013 #1
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 #2
hlthe2b Feb 2013 #3
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 #6
hlthe2b Feb 2013 #11
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #18
magical thyme Feb 2013 #26
TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #25
brewens Feb 2013 #4
rgbecker Feb 2013 #5
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 #8
rgbecker Feb 2013 #16
Lone_Star_Dem Feb 2013 #7
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 #9
Lone_Star_Dem Feb 2013 #12
jmg257 Feb 2013 #10
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 #15
rbrnmw Feb 2013 #27
libtodeath Feb 2013 #13
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 #20
libtodeath Feb 2013 #28
wandy Feb 2013 #14
Skidmore Feb 2013 #17
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 #19
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #22
Lone_Star_Dem Feb 2013 #23
DirkGently Feb 2013 #21
Catherina Feb 2013 #24
DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #30
ThatPoetGuy Feb 2013 #29

Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:16 PM

1. the OP states "When guns are banned"......

REALLY? REALLY?


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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:19 PM

2. Yes that's what I said. I'm trying to point out that you can ban all the guns you want and the

 

problem's still going to be there until you address the root cause. I don't have a dog in the gun race one way or the other.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:21 PM

3. Only the propaganda wing of the NRA mantains there is any move to "ban all guns"

Pushing their talking points is not going to be met with favor from most here.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:28 PM

6. This is MY talking point. If you wanted to you could take ALL the guns away and STILL until we get

 

some better ideas as a society to help the mentally ill, these types of attacks will happen with easily obtainable items, and the attacks will get even more damaging as each attacker has to beat out the last through media hype.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:45 PM

11. Yeah, we've heard it all time and time again.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:25 PM

18. Nope, that IS AN NRA TALKING POINT

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:06 PM

26. "When guns are banned" and When Pigs Fly

There is no move to ban guns. Why do you write as though you expect such an event?

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:01 PM

25. Your point is doomed to be lost

You can't put a red flag in and not have it dominate the discussion. It would probably go off track or be ignored anyway because folks don't like addressing root cause, not much profit and control in cures but plenty of both in treating symptoms. Thus, all conversation is ever bent to such paths, cures are the stuff of destructive radicals.

Folks will go for that raw meat of the gun mention, that is instinct for many.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:24 PM

4. Exactly my reaction. Keep pushing the half-wits to react to the guvmint gittin' their guns, then

blame it on the gun ban boogie man. Why not STFU about it? There has been no suggestion to ban all gun.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:28 PM

5. "capping a months-long undercover investigation"

I think rather "capping a months-long setup."

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Response to rgbecker (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:33 PM

8. This could be likely, but it still takes a mentally ill person to jump on the bandwagon.

 

I'm asking for suggestions,thoughts, ideas on how society can help fix this.

I'll throw one out there. How about we allow anyone with mental health issues access to free mental health care?

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:00 PM

16. Well you've identified two possible motivations....

Kid with problems, is set up by FBI and informant, who for some reason hasn't been arrested even though he put the "bomb" together and got the kid to buy the phones.

People are arming themselves because they are afraid of the government doing exactly this sort of thing.

So we could start by restraining the FBI from this sort of thing and using the money saved to fund decent mental health care. These FBI agents should have put this kid in touch with some doctors rather than sending him out to buy cell phones after showing him how to build a bomb. Note that they admit he had no bomb making materials or knowhow before they got the agents involved.

These Fed agents are all in need of some mental health counseling.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:33 PM

7. How to handle this? Don't let the FBI bait mentally ill people into attempting bombings?

Did you read your linked article and the other article it references you linked to?

The FBI had been working with him and provided him with a fake bomb. It is nothing like the scenario you speculate at in your opening.

"The undercover agent was able to establish a rapport and real trust so this individual was able to feel comfortable with trusting him with this bigger plan, and even involved him in it," Quy said. "If that bomb hadnít been assembled with the FBI's assistance, it would have gone off and it would have possibly killed someone.Ē

However, the FBI documents also provide no evidence that Llaneza could have pulled off the operation without the undercover agents, had ties to other terrorists or had any bomb making materials in his possession. Separate court documents filed in Santa Clara County show Llaneza is mentally ill.

One civil rights expert, Zahra Billoo, executive director of the Council on American Islamic Relations in Santa Clara, indicated that this smells of entrapment.†

†"Did the FBI take a aspirational terrorist, make him an operational terrorist and then thwart their own plot?" Billoo asked. "CAIR has been saying this for years now: It's the FBI's job to stop operational terrorists. It's not the FBI's job to enable aspirational ones."

http://m.nbcbayarea.com/nbcbayarea/pm_108022/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=yQ2WP287

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:36 PM

9. Agree, mentally ill people are going to be the most vulnerable and the Feds are famous for

 

setting people up. So how do we FIX these types of issues?

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:50 PM

12. We need to fix our mental health system.

As it sits now the FBI finds people like this, who could become a danger, and they lure them in with a promise of fulfilling their fantasies. Once they act on them they're arrested and institutionalized.

We need a layer of protection for our mentally ill that comes before entrapment and arrest. However, our current system has huge holes in it which let too many people fall right through. Such as this person.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:37 PM

10. Did I miss something?...when are guns going to be banned?

As for handling 'angry people', there doesn't seem an easy fix...everyone has their own issues.

As those are being worked on, there is no reason not to make it hard as possible for them to act out on their anger.

Why do one without the other?

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:58 PM

15. My point is that we need to get to the root cause. We can ban guns, swords and forks for that matter

 

& these things will still happen because we've left the mentally ill out to rot on their own. I'm not saying homeless people kill, but a good portion of the homeless are mentally ill. As a society we don't give a damn until we come up with options to help the mentally ill. The violence won't stop until then.

My family is very interested in new technology and science. I could give a damn about guns one way or the other. There are much more efficient (and deadly if one so chooses) ways to protect their home and person without a gun.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:08 PM

27. not true our family will soon be homeless we visited a family shelter

they all seemed quite normal to me just poor people who fell through the safety net

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:52 PM

13. Let me get this straight,are you saying that

we cant ban guns,which we are not,because if we did someone will make a bomb instead?
What kind of bizzare thinking is that,lets accept the carnage of this because maybe it could be worse?

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:37 PM

20. No, I'm saying they'll be making bombs one way or the other, each trying to beat out the last for

 

media attention. No matter what we ban it won't stop until we as a nation embrace mental health issues.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:08 PM

28. But what of those without mental health issues that see a gun as a means to an end?

just ignore that part of the equation as far a firearm availability?

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:57 PM

14. We may have misunderstood the meaning of the op here. I'll try to clarify......

He had his initial appearance in court this morning and will be back for a bail hearing next Wednesday in Oakland.


Bail hearing? How about a hearing as to how thick the padding on the walls of his cell should be.
And for gods sake don't even give this one a tooth brush, he may do harm with it.

Would that we could somehow ban crazy.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:06 PM

17. Well you lost me before the middle of your first paragraph.

Poppycock. No one is banning all guns and alarmist claptrap doesn't make it so. BTW, implicit threats of race wars because you trot out NRA propaganda doesn't serve you well either.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:34 PM

19. I implied that no matter what we do, or what we ban these things will continue to happen until we

 

get to the root issue which is mental illness. They won't just continue to happen, they'll get far more destructive as each one will have to beat out the last for media attention. I never implied anything about a race war. Never even typed the word race.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:43 PM

22. You see mental illness as the root of this is also an NRA talking point.



Funny, how nations with less guns, and mental illness have less shootings.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:50 PM

23. How you keep connecting an exploited mentally ill person in the article to being the problem...

Is baffling.

In the case you offer in your OP there is no evidence the person would have been a danger to anyone if the FBI had not worked on him and provided him with a means.

Maybe could possibly have been a threat, if they're worked into it by the FBI, and only then if they had the bomb provided to them by the FBI, does not a threat make.

You still don't get that.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:39 PM

21. So the FBI worked a mentally ill person for months

to get him to commit what he thought was a crime, and we're all supposed to be concerned?

This little scam the FBI is running where they target confused people and put a pretend bomb in their hand so they can be arrested wore thin a long time ago.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:58 PM

24. +1 n/t

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:15 PM

30. But Endless and Unlimited Funding is soooo cool

You are so right, this tactic has grown old and tired.

But most folks just read the headlines.

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Response to DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:11 PM

29. Man utterly fails to harm anyone,

because he went for bomb rather than gun.

If he'd tried using a gun, there would be body-bags.

Further evidence that only morons and racists oppose gun control.

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