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Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:33 PM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Junkdrawer) on Mon Feb 11, 2013, 12:28 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 OP
boston bean Feb 2013 #1
ManiacJoe Feb 2013 #2
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #6
trof Feb 2013 #26
dballance Feb 2013 #3
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #4
Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #5
socialindependocrat Feb 2013 #7
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Feb 2013 #29
gvstn Feb 2013 #8
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #10
JaneyVee Feb 2013 #9
dkf Feb 2013 #11
libtodeath Feb 2013 #12
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #13
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #14
dkf Feb 2013 #16
jsr Feb 2013 #15
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #17
Shankapotomus Feb 2013 #18
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #19
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #21
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #23
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #24
HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #20
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #22
HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #25
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #27
indie9197 Feb 2013 #28

Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:38 PM

1. It's sort of like Bonnie and Clyde

admired and understood by many of their time, but murder isn't justified under any circumstance.

Re Dorner, The police looking like rabid dogs themselves by shooting at innocent people isn't justified either. They end up looking and being a gang of thugs themselves.

Neither action on eithers part is warranted, nor can it be called justice.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:39 PM

2. Just because we pursue his allegations does not

mean we approve of his methods to bring them to light. If he is captured alive, he will be tried and punished for his crimes. Separately, an investigation into his allegations needs to be made into the alleged crimes of the others.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:49 PM

6. I lean that way. Two wrongs should be pursued as two wrongs. The Truth shall set ye free.

But I could see another deeply troubled individual saying: "I exhausted my appeals, no one cares. Screw it, I'm pulling a Dorner".

A Third Way (sorry Manny) may be to make sure that more of Dorner's flaws than he wants is exposed while investigating the LAPD.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:03 PM

26. $5 will get you $10 he isn't 'captured alive'.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:40 PM

3. Yes, I Do See Your Conflict

I think you stated it pretty concisely. I could see other people who are close to the edge and feel they have a grievance emulating him to some degree. It's no stretch to say many employers have, in the past, had acts of violence committed against them by employees they disciplined or terminated (fairly or unfairly). The Dorner situation really boils down to being the same thing.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:43 PM

4. I don't have a problem with seeking justice...

even if it is because someone killed some people and that is what brought their complaints to the light of day. Then we can seek justice against the person who was responsible for treating the complaints like they didn't matter or worse. I don't think it is something that is going to spur people to murder innocent people. In fact it should inspire people to take their case to the court of public opinion. If this guy had worked with say the media he might have gotten more positive attention and gotten justice eventually. The way he is going about things the most likely outcome is he is going to be dead and people won't really care that the LAPD is one of the most corrupt police forces in the US.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:46 PM

5. Dorner's second amendment solution to his problem is a very bad idea...

It has invalidated all of his claims.

Anyone who ever attempts to call for an investigation of LAPD based on Dorner's claims will simply be shown the body-count.

Guns have destroyed his case and ended his quest for justice with, at best, a jail cell for the rest of his natural life.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:52 PM

7. Not a peep about the two Latino women who were shot, either

I've seen two news reports about the manhunt for Dorner
but there was not one word mentioned about how the LAPD ambushed those two latino women and I haven't seen the story covered as a separate item either.

Let's see how this gets covered up and pushed under the rug!

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Response to socialindependocrat (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 12:00 AM

29. The LAPD makes it pretty clear that their lives are worth much more than the public.

 

People are killed everyday, and the family and friends of the victims aren't allowed to go they shoot innocent woman, no warning, no questions asked. There are clearly two sets of laws. One for the 1 percent and those who serve them, and one for the rest of us.

This needs to stop. It's what pushed Dorner over the edge to begin with. Ignoring it's only going to create more Dorners.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:54 PM

8. Two things about this situation

1) When Dorner said "I'm doing this to clear my name" we knew he was unstable. No rational mind can think killing people is going to clear his name.

2) When the police chief dismissed the shooting of the two women as unfortunate because emotions were running high but no apologies or sympathies, we knew there are problems with the LAPD's outlook on its responsibility to its citizens.

I agree that it is a bind as far as using Dorner as a reason to look at the abuses of the LAPD. I doubt it will come from this particular situation but perhaps the fact that so many people are speaking up about the LAPD they may have to self adjust at least for a few weeks.

I can't help but reference this old movie about the aftermath of the the L.A. riots. I keep hearing the fictional cops voice when I see the new conferences. Take 90 seconds and skip to 5:30 to 7:00.

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Response to gvstn (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:03 PM

10. The old "Trying to find sanity in an insane situation"....

You may be right.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:55 PM

9. Minus the violence, I think we can all kinda see where Dorner is coming from.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:09 PM

11. Unless the two Double Tree employees recant I don't know what more can be investigated.

 

Testimony of Christopher Adrid
Adrid was working as a bellman at the DoubleTree Hotel on the date of the incident. He saw Gettler on a bench in the lobby, talking to himself, so he asked Gettler if he was a hotel guest. When Gettler said he was not staying at the hotel, Adrid asked him to sit on a bench outside the hotel.
When appellant and Sergeant Evans arrived, Adrid saw them ask Gettler to take his hands out of his pockets and approach them. Gettler stood up and walked toward the officers, but when he tried to run away, appellant tackled him. Adrid testified that he saw Gettler and appellant fall into the bushes, which were about four feet high, although in an earlier interview, he had said he did not see appellant tackle Gettler. Adrid testified that Sergeant Evans was telling Gettler to put his hands behind his back or else she would use the taser. Gettler did not comply, so Sergeant Evans shot him with the taser, and then he complied and was handcuffed. Sergeant Evans stepped into the planter and helped appellant and Gettler get up. Adrid did not see Sergeant Evans crouch in the bushes or kick Gettler. He said that Sergeant Evans had one foot in the planter and one on the sidewalk and never had both feet in the planter. Adrid saw the cut on Gettler’s nose but did not see any other injuries.


Testimony of Ashlye Perez
Ashlye Perez was working at the DoubleTree as a bellhop on July 28, 2007. She was in the lobby of the hotel when she saw appellant and Sergeant Evans arrive at the hotel. The hotel doors were open, so she heard the officers ask Gettler to stand and ask if he was a guest at the hotel. After Perez went outside to try to usher hotel guests inside, she heard Gettler start yelling and saw the officers grab him to stop him from running away. She did not remember exactly what happened, but she saw Sergeant Evans use the taser, and she saw Gettler fall headfirst into the bushes. She noticed that some branches were broken when Gettler hit the bushes. Perez did not see Sergeant Evans go into the bushes or kick Gettler. Perez went back into the hotel, so she did not see the officers handcuff Gettler, but she saw Gettler struggling while the officers tried to get him out of the bushes. She noticed that Gettler had a cut on his face, which she thought was from hitting his face on the bushes.

Moreover this was appealed in the regular court:

Court of Appeals of California, Second District, Division Four.

http://tvfishbowl.com/christopher-dorner-vs-lapd-legal-transcripts/

The entire case is based on Dorner's assertion that Evans kicked Gettler.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:13 PM

12. I look at it as questioning war given the mental illness it can bring to a participant

does not excuse them nor should it be a this or that situation where questioning one means you exonerate the other.

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:21 PM

13. PTSD victims creating more victims. Reminds me of one of my favorite Vonnegut lines....

"Oh what lives we lead. Oh what a world we lead them in."

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:42 PM

14. That is why I am not expressin an opinion about it.

I read some of the appellate brief in the case and was none the wiser. I have no opinion other than to wait and see what happens.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:52 PM

16. This can only be about public opinion since the legal case seems settled to me.

 

What he wants is for the public to see the testimony of Gettler and give it more credence than the board members and the court did.


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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:45 PM

15. They want him dead ASAP

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:55 PM

17. No conflict for me

He needs to be brought in, preferably alive...don't spect it.

But LAPD needs to be investigated. Just the abuses during Occupy are a hint of things.

I expect him to die, and no investigation, and for things to continue to fester until they blow up.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:57 PM

18. Why does corruption at LAPD require a major crime to uncover?

I would think publishers and news organizations would love to hear the inside scoop on what really goes on at the LAPD from an insider.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:47 PM

19. It will be a miracle if he lives to stand trial

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:55 PM

21. Agreed. But whether he lives or dies should have little bearing...

on whether the LAPD is investigated. Even if he lives, the matter should not and will not be part of his trial.

If he's holding other corruption charges back, that's a different story.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:59 PM

23. He could make it part of his trial to show what caused him to go the way he did

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:01 PM

24. A judge would NEVER let that in....

It would only be a defense if it showed it put his life in danger, which, of course, it did not.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:53 PM

20. Well it does if you think a daughter is responsible for the acts of a father

or if you think every cop is accountable for the mistakes/unfairness of every superior.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:58 PM

22. I don't follow....

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:02 PM

25. Over the weekend Dorner SHOT THE DAUGHTER OF HIS ADVOCATE in the contests leading to his firing.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:38 PM

27. Out of the gate I said he's a murderer and needs to be held accountable for the murders...

I guess the rest is too subtle....

You can't see the corona - the sun's disk is blinding.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:38 PM

28. There was no injustice done to Dorner, only to his victims and their loved ones

And I don't see where he was aware of department corruption. (the other witnesses to the incident where he accused his partner of brutality did not validate his story)

He was a ticking time bomb from what I have read.

And so what if he thought he was fired unjustly? Lots of people have been fired (including myself) and most think it was not a fair deal. Move on. It doesn't have to ruin your life.

Interesting article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/09/christopher-dorner-court-records-_n_2652289.html

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