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Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:08 PM

2/3ds of all Americans live in a 4th amendment-free zone.

I just read about this on slashdot. Unbelievable. Apparently DHS has the right to seize and search any electronic devices within 100 miles of the border, including ocean borders. That means 2/3ds of the American population have essentially no 4th amendment protections.

I just don't understand the world I live in anymore.


DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

The Department of Homeland Security’s civil rights watchdog has concluded that travelers along the nation’s borders may have their electronics seized and the contents of those devices examined for any reason whatsoever — all in the name of national security.

The DHS, which secures the nation’s border, in 2009 announced that it would conduct a “Civil Liberties Impact Assessment” of its suspicionless search-and-seizure policy pertaining to electronic devices “within 120 days.” More than three years later, the DHS office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties published a two-page executive summary of its findings.

“We also conclude that imposing a requirement that officers have reasonable suspicion in order to conduct a border search of an electronic device would be operationally harmful without concomitant civil rights/civil liberties benefits,” the executive summary


http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-seizures/

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Reply 2/3ds of all Americans live in a 4th amendment-free zone. (Original post)
Ron Obvious Feb 2013 OP
Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #1
NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #2
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #11
indepat Feb 2013 #3
TheMadMonk Feb 2013 #5
blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #4
Ron Obvious Feb 2013 #6
Heywood J Feb 2013 #14
Ron Obvious Feb 2013 #15
TheMadMonk Feb 2013 #7
X_Digger Feb 2013 #8
EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #9
X_Digger Feb 2013 #12
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #10
Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #13
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #19
HereSince1628 Feb 2013 #16
Ron Obvious Feb 2013 #17
Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #18
Ron Obvious Feb 2013 #20

Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:20 PM

1. They saw a shadow so they become afraid

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:21 PM

2. The 1st and 2nd amendments are not far behind. Hell, in 10-12 years we've been decimated.

I couldn't find the Keith Olbermann piece from CA 2007 about how the Bill of Rights, one by one, have been weakened or virtually eliminated by congress and the whitehouse.

My google skills need work.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:43 PM

11. Ahem. Perhaps you have not noticed the "Free Speech ZONES" during political campaigns?

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:22 PM

3. While much of our 4th and 1st Amendment rights have been abrogated, do nor worry, do not

fear, for our 2nd Amendment rights have been aggrandized by a multiple of at least 10.

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Response to indepat (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:09 PM

5. And why not. The behaviour of people opperating under 2A...

 

...ABSOLUTELY JUSTIFIES the abrogation of the rest.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:27 PM

4. The Police State marches on. But who notices?

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:27 PM

6. The frog's close to boiling it seems

Like they say, apparently you can boil a frog if you slowly turn up the heat rather than turn it to high all at once, 'cause they'll jump out of the pot if you do that.

I've mentioned it here before, but I sometimes feel we're living in the dystopic alternate timeline of one of those SF time-travel movies where the course of history has gone off track because something happened that shouldn't have happened and the movie's hero will be sent back in time to fix that event. In our case, the 2000 election in Florida.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:40 AM

14. Only to 2000?

Not back to 1980 or 1963?

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Response to Heywood J (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:13 PM

15. Maybe

You can certainly make a case for 1963. As for 1980, I grew to detest Reagan and admire Carter, but at the time I had no strong feelings either way, although the dodgy dealings with the Iranian hostage takers were obvious enough, but I would have called myself a conservative back then.

The 2000 election and its aftermath, though is still hard to take in. Partly because I had an instinctive, visceral loathing of Bush, but that shambolic Florida election and farcical Supreme Court decision stopping the recount... It all felt so unreal, it seemed like fiction, and that goes for everything that's happened since in accelerated fashion.

It's like the powers that be no longer bother to pretend to serve democracy and the people.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:33 PM

7. I believe you are safe enough in your own home,...

 

...or otherwise on private property. However, you are indeed fair game on the streets, so your laptop, tablet, phone, even MP3 player can be searched at any time you carry it onto the street or into the common areas of a set of appartments or multiple tennancy office building.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:40 PM

8. Some scary shit right there. n/t

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:41 PM

9. I keep hearing about the loss of freedoms...

 

But there's nothing I can't do now that I could do the day I was born...

Except drive, drink, vote, and have consensual sex. Those freedoms were added along the way.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:47 PM

12. Depending on when you were born.. Freedom to walk down the street in NYC without 'stop and frisk'?

The freedom to not have some nimrod search today's version of your papers and effects without a warrant?

The freedom to move to another state and not have a cop seize your cash and car because of the asinine "war on {some} drugs"?

The freedom to protest an event within sight of said event?

Those are just the ones off the top of my head..

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:41 PM

10. Lather, rinse, repeat: "9/11 changed everything."

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:48 PM

13. And remember: 9/11 happened just as the 9/11 Commission said....

Forget all the obvious motives, the long, stinky history of "al Qaeda", the inconsistencies in the FAA accounts, the obvious physical impossibilities, etc, etc.

Just keep repeating "If I say a damn word, people will think I'm a nut."

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:16 PM

19. I really hear ya!

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:57 PM

16. There was a map posted on DU years ago that showed areas around international airports

as also being subject to that sort of rules. Consequently areas well inland near Chicago, St Louis, Dallas, and IIRC Denver were included.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:24 PM

17. What about embassies?

I hadn't even thought of that one yet. Heck, aren't embassies legally foreign soil? What about consulates?

I suspect that 100 miles will soon be expanded also. I was in a border patrol stop near San Diego a few years ago where they had sniffer dogs and saw a car being virtually dismantled on the side. Eerie.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:42 PM

18. You don't have any Fourth Amendment rights at the border.

And that's what this is about. Of course, it's a very expansive definition of the border; one that allows Customs highway checkpoints on Interstates 8 and 10 miles from the border. (Those checkpoints seem mainly to catch clueless American pot smokers unaware they're in a rights-free zone, like Willie Nelson.)

That said, the feds don't typically exercise their border powers except at points of entry and checkpoints. It's extremely unlikely the Border Patrol is going to demand to inspect your laptop while you're sitting at a coffee shop on Santa Monica Boulevard.

But they could...

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:47 PM

20. Extremely unlikely

There's a lot of things I would have called 'extremely unlikely' about 15 years ago that don't even appear to be all that controversial these days. Too many to have much faith that powers once granted won't be executed.

European companies direct their employees travelling to the US to clean their laptops prior to travel, and to download corporate data over a secure line once through customs.

That's how we're being perceived these days. Land of the Free? Going through US customs is quite literally worse than crossing Checkpoint Charlie was, and I speak from experience.

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