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Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:53 PM

Chris Dorner has vanished and he may be armed with shoulder-fired missiles and a .50 caliber rifle

By PIERRE THOMAS (@PierreTABC) and COLLEEN CURRY
Feb. 8, 2013

Alleged cop-killer Christopher Dorner has vanished.

More than 24 hours after Dorner allegedly shot and killed one police officer and injured two others, police say they have no idea where the former cop with a vendetta against police has gone.

"He could be anywhere at this point," Sheriff John McMahon of the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Department said today.

<...>

Wherever Dorner is, law enforcement officials fear that he may be heavily armed, possibly with a powerful .50 caliber rifle, which shoots five-inch long bullets that can pierce bullet proof vests and vehicles, as well as a shoulder-fired missile launcher.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/christopher-dorner-vanished-powerful-weaponry/story?id=18437045

133 replies, 8405 views

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Reply Chris Dorner has vanished and he may be armed with shoulder-fired missiles and a .50 caliber rifle (Original post)
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 OP
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #1
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #13
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #15
2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #106
oldandhappy Feb 2013 #110
Blanks Feb 2013 #17
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #39
Zoeisright Feb 2013 #66
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #72
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #76
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #80
Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #102
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #88
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #81
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #2
politicat Feb 2013 #28
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #82
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #114
flamin lib Feb 2013 #3
freshwest Feb 2013 #18
rightsideout Feb 2013 #71
freshwest Feb 2013 #89
TheCowsCameHome Feb 2013 #4
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #83
2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #109
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #115
2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #117
LisaL Feb 2013 #122
2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #131
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #123
Recursion Feb 2013 #107
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #5
flamingdem Feb 2013 #6
longship Feb 2013 #7
Heimer Feb 2013 #8
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #85
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #43
longship Feb 2013 #55
beevul Feb 2013 #104
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #126
2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #111
rdharma Feb 2013 #9
dizbukhapeter Feb 2013 #10
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #11
FarCenter Feb 2013 #12
freshwest Feb 2013 #19
ManiacJoe Feb 2013 #23
freshwest Feb 2013 #24
ManiacJoe Feb 2013 #25
freshwest Feb 2013 #32
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #45
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #54
freshwest Feb 2013 #60
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #63
freshwest Feb 2013 #65
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #87
dizbukhapeter Feb 2013 #74
backscatter712 Feb 2013 #93
geckosfeet Feb 2013 #79
rdharma Feb 2013 #14
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #26
indie9197 Feb 2013 #27
Cleita Feb 2013 #16
R B Garr Feb 2013 #20
Cleita Feb 2013 #21
R B Garr Feb 2013 #22
indie9197 Feb 2013 #29
ellisonz Feb 2013 #31
KansDem Feb 2013 #99
ellisonz Feb 2013 #100
flamingdem Feb 2013 #36
Cleita Feb 2013 #56
flamingdem Feb 2013 #58
Cleita Feb 2013 #62
flamingdem Feb 2013 #64
Cleita Feb 2013 #67
ellisonz Feb 2013 #101
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #30
freshwest Feb 2013 #48
Catherina Feb 2013 #75
appal_jack Feb 2013 #97
Catherina Feb 2013 #133
cliffordu Feb 2013 #33
flamingdem Feb 2013 #34
cliffordu Feb 2013 #37
flamingdem Feb 2013 #40
cliffordu Feb 2013 #42
flamingdem Feb 2013 #44
X_Digger Feb 2013 #47
flamingdem Feb 2013 #49
krispos42 Feb 2013 #119
LisaL Feb 2013 #121
flamingdem Feb 2013 #124
LisaL Feb 2013 #125
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #38
cliffordu Feb 2013 #41
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #46
cliffordu Feb 2013 #52
HangOnKids Feb 2013 #105
Recursion Feb 2013 #113
obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #59
Daninmo Feb 2013 #35
flamingdem Feb 2013 #50
R B Garr Feb 2013 #57
flamingdem Feb 2013 #61
R B Garr Feb 2013 #68
coalition_unwilling Feb 2013 #90
R B Garr Feb 2013 #51
freshwest Feb 2013 #73
freshwest Feb 2013 #53
lib2DaBone Feb 2013 #69
freshwest Feb 2013 #70
cliffordu Feb 2013 #78
socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #84
freshwest Feb 2013 #86
socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #91
freshwest Feb 2013 #92
Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #94
LisaL Feb 2013 #95
Duer 157099 Feb 2013 #96
geckosfeet Feb 2013 #77
Hugabear Feb 2013 #98
socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #112
krispos42 Feb 2013 #120
davidpdx Feb 2013 #103
slackmaster Feb 2013 #108
LisaL Feb 2013 #116
krispos42 Feb 2013 #118
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #127
bemildred Feb 2013 #128
krispos42 Feb 2013 #130
rgbecker Feb 2013 #129
Shankapotomus Feb 2013 #132

Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:55 PM

1. Unless you or a close family member are named in his manifesto, or LAPD, I wouldn't worry too much.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:34 PM

13. Yeah, like the dead Riverside cop, huh?

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:42 PM

15. Fine, you can panic if you want, but I think you're being paranoid to do so.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:23 AM

106. that's a great toon

Haven't seen that one before

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:38 AM

110. good toon!

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:49 PM

17. The real concern is the lead that the LAPD throws into the air when they sense his presence. eom

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:17 PM

39. I'm certainly not worried. If I ran across him, I'd give him a

sympathetic ear. And I'd voice my own complaints about LAPD.

I know a thing or two about dealing with mentally disturbed people from long personal experience. I know how to stay off their enemy-detecting radar.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:40 PM

66. You would give someone who murdered three people

a SYMPATHETIC EAR?

Christ on a crutch. That's the dumbest thing I have EVER heard.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #66)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:48 PM

72. Why is it dumb?? What would YOU do, confront him angrily

and get added to his enemies list and get your head blown off??

Like I said, I know a thing or two about avoiding trouble with crazy people.

Let me guess - you've got guns and you'd just get in a heroic shootout with him?

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #66)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:11 AM

76. You are so very kind for calling me stupid. Congratulations.

I recommend this approach every time someone tries to have an intelligent conversation about a subject in the news. It will impress everyone looking on with your incredibly superior intellect.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #66)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:40 AM

80. You are so self-righteous. I'd recommend you review the story of

 

Ashley Smith Robinson and Brian Nicholls for a primer on how to deescalate situations by lending a sympathetic ear:

http://ashleysmithrobinson.com/?page_id=2

OTOH, you probably think it's best to shoot first and ask questions later.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #80)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:37 AM

102. Staying calm and talking works sometimes in certain situations.

I talked myself out of a couple of stranger rape situations many years ago when I used to hitchhike. I had one guy showing me pictures of his kids by the time I got out of the car.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #66)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:53 AM

88. It's better to piss off an armed fugitive?

Holy shit, you better hope you never encounter one.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:42 AM

81. Bravo! If you have a chance, re-aquaint yourself with the story of

 

Ashley Smith Robinson:

http://ashleysmithrobinson.com/?page_id=2

The constant bloodlust at DU can really get you down some times.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:56 PM

2. Bet He Is Nine Foot Tall By Now, Sir: Hell, Maybe He Is invisible, Able To Regenerate Limbs....

"Show some respect when you try and fool me, kid...."

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:03 PM

28. And possibly farts green fire.

Does he have a blue ox, by chance?

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:43 AM

82. I am so flashing on Emmanuel Goldstein (of 1984 fame) right now. - n/t

 

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:01 AM

114. Anything is possible, especially rumor-mongering sensationalism on the part of 'journalists'.

I heard Dorner can shape-shift and make himself appear as an elderly Hispanic female.


Or turn himself into an Abrams M1A2 main battle tank, like a Transformer.

Real hush-hush top ultra-secret stuff from his time in the military.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:57 PM

3. Hey! He's just standing up to a tyranical government like the 2nd says he must! Patriot!111!! nt

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:03 PM

18. Yup, yup!

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:47 PM

71. Exactly

Each gun fanatic that becomes unhinged has different perceptions of what a tyrannical government is. This whole incident is giving us an example of just one.

Now this is where it gets interesting. We have this one guy flipping out over his version of the tyrannical government (the LAPD) but at the same time we have other guns nuts preparing for their eventual assault on the tyrannical government but also arming themselves against this guy.

This will be really cool to watch from the sidelines. Put down the "Call of Duty" and just watch the news. LOL.







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Response to rightsideout (Reply #71)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:00 AM

89. I'm not looking forward to the opposing killing each other, though...

There was on DU today the story of a Taliban or wannabe Taliban planning to bomb a bank to start an overreaction by the police to precipitate a RW reaction. Rather, a civil war.

Pretty convoluted stuff there, but he was being watched and got caught in a sting. He thought this was a great idea to change the world, do his duty to Jihad, or whatever.

This scheme isn't new, it's a staple with the Nazis and the KKK, and it's really not gone away. The case of the soldier from WA leading a gang to go and take over a military base and kill Obama, and all of that, is the same stuff.

Now this man, who some claim did not kill those people (but I can't imagine why anyone else would, forgive me, I can't) is on the loose and being made a folk hero by some people. Those folks are aggrieved at things in general, and racism and the PD in particular, and think he'll spark something. He may be a lone individual - perhaps he is not alone.

We're online and in a bubble, possibly all FOS, but here we are trying to figure out the truth here. I understand the dark humor, but this is tragic, no matter what.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:00 PM

4. It's reassuring to know weaponry like that is available to ordinary citizens

It makes the whole world seem so fucking safe.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:44 AM

83. We don't know he has such weapons.

Thats speculation from the same people who can't tell the differrence between a 270 lb 30 year old black male and a petite 71 year old latina. I'm surprised they didn't also claim he had nuclear weapons and an Abrams tank.

While a .50 caliber gun is the legal max size, they aren't common. They're used for hunting really large game (elephants, rhinos, polar bears, and the like). It's an expensive specialized hunting weapon. A shoulder-fired missle launcher is illegal, of course. Possibly it could be bought on the black market, at great cost. I rather doubt he has one, and suspect paranoia has overcome rationality in the LAPD. The guy probably has a couple 9mm handguns, a pump shotgun, and a .30-06 rifle. No evidence of this, but just a guess as to most useful weapons for a fugitive.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #83)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:33 AM

109. manifesto claimed a .50

I don't remember seeing anything about a missile launcher. Maybe he called it by name that I didn't recognize.

Doesn't mean he really has one (.50) But he did say they were legally acquired so maybe they were able to confirm it?

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #109)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:10 PM

115. Tnx, I didn't read it.

He may or may not have one, I guess presuming he does is reasonable caution. My understanding is .50 cal rifle is largest allowed under federal law, but isn't allowed under Cali law.
He probably doesn't have a shoulder-fired missle launcher. While they might disappear on occasion, I think it would be difficult for a reservist to walk off with one.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #115)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:24 PM

117. You're probably right about the missile launcher.

While they might disappear on occasion, I think it would be difficult for a reservist to walk off with one.


Of course if you are planning on a revenge expose killing spree, you might be more likely to be one of the ones determined enough to get one. Where has he been stationed lately and can they account for all launchers? Where is the nearest facility that he could get one? I'm sure they have checked into these things but I want to know too. lol

Or he is hoping to convince them not to bring in helicopters with heat seeking equipment or something like that while he really doesn't have the launcher.

He went off the grid Jan 29th? I wonder what purchases were made before that? It's certainly an interesting story no matter where you stand on the if's and why's of it, don't cha think?

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #117)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:55 PM

122. His manifesto says he has it. You can either believe it or not.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #122)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:14 PM

131. Oh, his manifesto says he has the launcher too?

I didn't see the launcher specifically but just read it once and probably just missed it.

Yeah, it is still up in the air if he really has it, but since I haven't heard anything about helicopters looking for him or anything like that, it seems that the police either believe it or are giving him the benefit of the doubt on it.

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #117)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:57 PM

123. Yes, it is an interesting story.

While I don't condone his actions, the LAPD's actions have bolstered his claims, IMO.
I don't think he's at Big Bear. He probably had a vehicle stashed near where he abandoned his truck. He couldn't possibly be carrying weapons and gear to survive in mountains (or elsewhere) on foot or motorcycle.
He may have someone helping him. Or if alone, he's driving a vehicle that wouldn't attract attention being driven by a black guy in the mountains, freeways, or elsewhere. So I have a hunch he might be in an ex government vehicle...something like a truck or SUV formerly driven by Fish and Wildlife, Border Patrol, or Park Service. Something not likely to raise eyebrows, or be stopped.
He could be in Mexico by now, or hiding in desert. Mountains would be cold, so unless he had a well-stocked cave or cabin survival questionable. Also, limited roads in mountains would also limit his mobility.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:27 AM

107. Missiles are definitely not available to ordinary citizens

Though I have no idea where the LAPD is getting its info.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:00 PM

5. Oh my! I demand drone strikes against ALL suspected locations!!! nt

 

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:01 PM

6. LA schools closed today, I believe nt

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:01 PM

7. I think this guy has had this planned out.

I think the cops will assume that he's gone to ground. And I think that there's a good possibility that that's exactly what Dorner wants them to think.

Something tells me that this guy's not going to make too many mistakes and that he has some strategy, and counter-strategies in play here.

I will bet my bottom dollar that Big Bear was a diversion.

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Response to longship (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:21 PM

8. Agreed.

He's hiding in plain sight while massive resources are being exhausted. From reading the manifesto, this man has the knowledge on just how to hide, and how and when to strike. This is obviously something that's been planned for quite some time.

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Response to Heimer (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:46 AM

85. He actually tipped his hand by saying he was going to wage 'asymmetrical warfare'. One tenet

 

of that strategy is that the weaker party wears out his Brobdignagian opponents by being like a gnat.

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Response to longship (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:21 PM

43. I think he had a getaway vehicle prepositioned there. And

I think he has a residence far from here that he rented or bought a long time ago under another name to use as a base of operations. He's in this game for the long haul - as the hunter, he is willing to stalk and wait as long as necessary.

This is a VERY dangerous situation for anyone on his enemies list.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #43)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:33 PM

55. I agree that he's got something like that.

This isn't something he is doing off-the-cuff. He planned to burn that truck at Big Bear.

BTW, another DU post said the truck had a broken axle (unconfirmed, AFAIK). Wonder what that's about, if it's even true.

I suspect he's no longer in the mountains. BTW, I've been to Big Bear multiple times. There is a whole helluva lot of mountains to go to ground in. They could be searching around there for a long time.

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Response to longship (Reply #55)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:57 AM

104. I've been thinking about that.

Many vehicles that have a rear differential, use pressed in axle tubes, rather than welded,.

If this vehicle did indeed have that sort of design, its no stretch to think that its possible for one of the pressed in tubes to come loose under the heat when the truck burned.

Having looked at a few pics, such as this:

http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/8850869/129_0506_10z+nissan_titan+rear_axle_assembly.jpg

It appears the axle tubes are indeed pressed in, rather than being an integral part of the unit like a ford nine inch is.

This is speculation on my part that it may have happened, but I have seen this happen on other vehicles before, in my youth when I worked in the auto salvage business. More than once I saw a badly burned vehicle that got so hot that one of the axle tubes came loose.

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Response to beevul (Reply #104)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:25 PM

126. Could be that an axle shaft broke, not the housing.

Agressive off-road driving can break an axle, the old Land Rovers were known for that and off-road operators carried a spare.
It's also possible he had the vehicle over-loaded and broke the axle and/or housing.
I have seen a couple housings bent, but more broken shafts.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:38 AM

111. I think so too.

Was the truck already on fire? I wouldn't think he would have set it on fire to mark it's location and bring out the force without a plan to already be gone when they got there.

I did see a report on google that said someone made a call ID'ing him at a house there ,near where the truck was found. After they surrounded it and all, they found that it was a false call. Someone called in a false siting.

I wonder if he is the one who called it in. Had them all focused on one place while he cruised away?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:24 PM

9. Might be armed with a shoulder-fired missile launcher.

 

Doubt it!

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:24 PM

10. I doubt that hes shooting 5 inch long bullets

 

And California already banned .50 caliber rifles

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Response to dizbukhapeter (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:28 PM

11. Have you seen the bullets that go into a .50 cal rifle like a Barrett?



It's the cartridge on the left.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:31 PM

12. The cartridge is about 5 inches long; the bullet is far shorter.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:05 PM

19. What's he need that big thing for? Distance or big game? Seems like overkill, either way.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:47 PM

23. Distance. And anti-material purposes.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #23)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:50 PM

24. Why would a civilian need this? Bears? Buffalo? Shooting metal (cop cars, etc.) not a civilian use.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:56 PM

25. The most common civilian use is long distance shooting...

... at paper targets.

However, the military uses for the gun (anti-material, long-distance anti-personnel) probably match Dorner's reasons.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:11 PM

32. It's easy to see with his manifesto that the PD and others have reason for concern. Whatever occurs,

these incidents may be game changers in the national consciousness about the use of force on many levels.

This guy claimed the PD was improper in their application of force against civilians and showed an depraved and callous disregard for their lives.

He killed people he had no right to kill, applying deadly force which he claims is justified by PD misconduct and that he wants deep change, and is willing to continue to kill, no doubt to get it.

Then we have the two women shot by PD, with the excuse for such action being trying to apprehend the killer. One who has reserved the right to himself of judge, jury and executioner and says he is waging war on the PD by means of these weapons to use lethal force.

Something has gotta give, maybe there will be PD changes, or it will be treated as a crime and a manhunt for a killer. Some think this story is bigger than just following a criminal, they see something political here.

I can't grasp the totality of that view, in light of the fact that he killed civilians, which makes him a criminal, not a warrior as some may see him being...



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Response to freshwest (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:22 PM

45. He's not a civilian. He's in the reserves.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:32 PM

54. He is in the military

Naval Reserves. He isn't a civilian, and has access to weapons to steal.

And, anyone who thinks weapons and other material doesn't disappear off bases A LOT doesn't know anyone in the military.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #54)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:36 PM

60. I thought the reserves kicked him out over this, that's part of his reasoning.

I'm sure a lot of stuff goes missing from the military and it's a concern. I'm saying he has no proper civilian use, and his beef is only with the PD. Supposedly...

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Response to freshwest (Reply #60)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:38 PM

63. His last day was Friday

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #63)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:39 PM

65. Um - but he had already lost his security clearance.

I wonder if some of his comrades at the naval base might have information for the law?

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #54)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:51 AM

87. Prior to 1965, the National Liberation Front in Vietnam was pretty much armed

 

and provisioned by U.S. taxpayers whose arms shipments to the South Vietnamese puppets were constantly captured or purchased on the black market by NLF forces. IIRC, Neil Sheehan estimates that the NLF got about 75% of its amrs from the U.S. via the puppets. After 1965, the logistics equation changed with North Vietnam's increasing presence in the South.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:56 PM

74. Yes I know what a .50 BMG looks like

 

The projectile is far shorter than 5 inches

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Response to dizbukhapeter (Reply #74)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:35 AM

93. Fine, let me be more precise.

It's an 1-1.5 inch bullet on a nearly 4 inch cartridge, and that cartridge has enough smokeless powder in it to send that bullet flying at almost 3,000 feet per second, to turn someone's skull inside-out from over a mile away.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:29 AM

79. Yeah? And how long is the projectile - you know, the bullet.

Looks to be about three inches at the absolute max. Probably less than 2.5".

on edit- Not that I would want get shot with one mind you.

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Response to dizbukhapeter (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:34 PM

14. Overall length of the .50BMG round is about 5.5"

 

He may have one of these rifles. But I doubt he has a shoulder fired rocket launcher.

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Response to dizbukhapeter (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:59 PM

26. I don't think the laws are something this particular subject cares too much about right now.

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Response to dizbukhapeter (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:01 PM

27. What you mean is that .50 caliber rifles can only be owned by criminals.

n/t

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:20 PM

16. He is in trouble. The woods he is hiding in will not

sustain him. I know my woods. I am very familiar with the San Bernardino mountains. I camped up there many times over the years when I did things like that. I also have spent years in the forests of Idaho and Montana. He cannot stay longer than a month there. He would be better off in the desert. I'm not kidding. But it takes someone like my dad to know the real survival tactics of living in the Mojave Desert. If he's smart, I think that's where he's going.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:11 PM

20. Wow, this is a little like the movie First Blood maybe

He seems to be tactical and planned in his moves and he has some survival skills.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:20 PM

21. Oh, movies?

Movies don't teach much practical knowledge.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:44 PM

22. It's just that Dorner's move to go the mountains reminded me of that movie

It seems like he would know something about that Big Bear mountain and there was some strategy to his going there that he felt would give him an advantage of some sort.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:04 PM

29. It doesn't make sense that he would burn his method of transportation unless he had another one.

Rocket launchers and .50 cal rifles are heavy. He is driving something else and there is no telling where he is for now.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:05 PM

31. Those are pretty much my thoughts too.

If wanted to live staying in the mountains doesn't make much sense. Lot easier to hide in the wide open desert than in the mountains because it's easier to move around. I think the probabilities are 1/3rd he's holed up in a cabin in the area (still a probability despite the widespread search), 1/3rd he's dead by suicide and they didn't find him on the first day of search because he stopped emitting heat or from exposure to the elements on the first night in the mountains, and 1/3rd he went out of the mountains and into the desert.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:54 AM

99. I thought the same thing...

If wanted to live staying in the mountains doesn't make much sense. Lot easier to hide in the wide open desert than in the mountains because it's easier to move around.

I've been to Big Bear a few times when I lived in S. California (sister and her husband had a cabin there). If I recall correctly, once on the roads going to or coming from BB, there's not a lot of "wiggle room" in case you need to take a quick "detour." I'd hate to be on those roads with someone following or coming at me.

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Response to KansDem (Reply #99)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:05 AM

100. They've conducted a pretty thorough search...

...if he's off the grid, he's way off the grid and he's got to have a cabin with supplies pre-staged. Otherwise, he's a dead man in the open or even in a car in a freezing winter storm.

He supposedly knows the area - but it would be very hard for him to elude authorities for too long. If his goal is to evade capture, the further he is away from that truck, the better.

The mountains are an easy place to die, but not a good place to hide.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:14 PM

36. Why is the desert a better spot that the mountains? nt

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:34 PM

56. Because I know and I think he knows. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #56)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:35 PM

58. Is it a secret? nt

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:36 PM

62. No secret. Know the territoryl.

I will add that in the winter the desert is very livable.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #62)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:38 PM

64. So you're saying it's easier to know the territory?

I guess you're saying if he's like you he'd prefer the desert. It seem like you'd be more of a target there with no trees for cover.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #64)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:41 PM

67. A problem.

It will be easier for him to disappear in the desert than in the mountains.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #64)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:08 AM

101. The trees work both ways

Yes they make hiding easier, but there's not a lot up there and it's easy to get lost.

The desert offers the advantage of space and the fact that there's more built up across a vaster space than concentrated in a small area like in the mountains.

He could stay off the grid for quite awhile in the areas north and to the east of the San Bernardino's and especially if he's smart about getting gasoline.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:04 PM

30. I've seen this play: "Send In the Drones."

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:25 PM

48. Nope. The clowns, maybe.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:08 AM

75. And those who haven't, will soon see it. And just in the nick of time! n/t

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:17 AM

97. "Don't bother, they're here." n/t

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:06 PM

133. "The use of drones was later confirmed by Customs and Border Patrol spokesman Ralph DeSio"

A senior police source said: “The thermal imaging cameras the drones use may be our only hope of finding him. On the ground, it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack.”

Asked directly if drones have already been deployed, Riverside Police Chief Sergio Diaz, who is jointly leading the task force, said: “We are using all the tools at our disposal.”

The use of drones was later confirmed by Customs and Border Patrol spokesman Ralph DeSio, who revealed agents have been prepared for Dorner to make a dash for the Mexican border since his rampage began.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/376732/Man-hunt-for-ex-soldier-who-shot-police-chief-s-daughter-and-killed-policeman


So far they're just owning up to surveillance drones but we all now the next scene of the play.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:12 PM

33. YA, right. And if he has a platoon of people to carry all that shit he's golden.

a .50 cal rifle weighs about 45 lbs, 50 rounds for the useless fucking thing about that. A shoulder fired rocket? REALLY???

THESE PEOPLE ARE FUCKING LYING.

He's prolly got an AR 15 and a couple of 9mm pistols. Mebbe a 1911 .45.

Mebbe a .308 sniper rifle. Like a deer rifle with a scope.


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Response to cliffordu (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:14 PM

34. It was stated by someone in the LAPD that he had the shoulder fired

but good point if he abandoned his truck he's probably lightly armed. And they would have found those other weapons by now.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:15 PM

37. I still believe they are lying about the shoulder fired rocket.

they are EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY hard to get.

You could prolly get nuke materials easier.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:18 PM

40. Someone turned one in in the Oakland gun exchange last month nt

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:20 PM

42. I saw that - IIRC that was just a used tube, not the explosive flying part.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:22 PM

44. Ah. Wonder why the LAPD said that

They'll lose credulity if they keep this up

They're basically losing it on this one.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:23 PM

47. You assume they have any credibility to lose?

(I know, cheap shot, but looking at those women's poor truck in another thread...)

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:25 PM

49. I remember when the police chief said he wanted to use a flamethrower on Slauson

to fry everyone. That was during the riots!

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #44)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:29 PM

119. It was a disposable rocket-launcher tube

The military issues unguided single-use rockets to soldiers for use against armored vehicles, bunkers, that sort of thing.

They are factory-sealed and non-reloadable. Arm, aim, fire, drop the tube and move on.

Somebody turned in a used tube, probably taken illegally from a military base.

The tube is made from something like plastic or fiberglass or whatever.

They probably didn't know exactly what it was, speculated, and the media hype did the rest.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #44)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:54 PM

121. Dorner said he has man-poratble air-defense system in his manifesto.

So maybe you should get a clue on what you are talking about.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #121)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:03 PM

124. rude comment necessary I suppose

if you're so proud of having read this guys manifesto

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #124)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:12 PM

125. Yes, I took time in order to be able discuss it.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:16 PM

38. The "Light 50s" weigh 30 pounds or less.

I would not be surprised at what he has.

(off topic, the .308 was my favorite to use for target practice with MrG and it was freaking heavy)

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:19 PM

41. OK, then I'm 15 lbs off.

I'd take an M-14. Used one with a scope back in the day.

Great for 'suppressing fire' from a long way out.

Even so, I wonder what each .50 cal round weighs

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:22 PM

46. I don't know to be honest.

MrG always wanted one (that's how I knew about the weight) but I refused to allow it. No need for us to own something like that.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #46)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:30 PM

52. I though about one for a while until I realized there aint anyplace to shoot the damned thing within

75 miles of here.

I rode my bicycle from San Diego to Florida a couple of years ago and rode past a shooting range in a big canyon..it was mebbe two miles from where I was on the road.

You could hear a lot os small arms fire - pistols, rifles....and then once every 15 seconds or so there would be this real low, MASSIVE 'BOOM'

Set one of those fucking things off and there is NO sound like it in the world.

I heard .50 cal machine guns back in the day, I do believe that was what I heard.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #52)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:49 AM

105. Wow! You Did That Grueling Bike Ride? Kudos! Congrats!

 

My late father did that same trip Rancho Penasquitos (San Diego) to Jacksonville in 1996. He was grieving the loss of my Mom and that trip helped him cope. Again kudos to you for your trip!

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #52)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:45 AM

113. I carried my battalion's .50 for a hot minute

Then said, "Gunny, I really think PFC Smith is a hard charger; he'd be a lot better with this weapon..."

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:35 PM

59. Agreed -- definitely no rocket launcher

I also doubt the .50 too. I held one at the range once, and they are crazy heavy.

And, IF he is in the forest, I think he may be in for a surprise.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:14 PM

35. I am guessing

he borrowed as much as could get his hands on, converted to cash as much as he could, knowing they would trace any credit card use. He probably had another auto stashed with bogus plates registered to someone else. And if as smart as they say had a shack in the desert somewhere to hole up until the gov't exhaust its funds looking for him. Then he will strike again, and repeat, until the money runs out or he gets caught or killed.

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Response to Daninmo (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:26 PM

50. The truck he abandoned had a broken axel. Seems like this was unplanned

I doubt he'd fake a broken axel. So cops think he's around that area or stole a car from a summer home and split

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #50)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:34 PM

57. I thought about that, too, regarding the axel

but then why did he bother to torch the truck if he was ditching it because of a broken axel.

But a stolen car sounds like a definite possiblity.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #57)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:36 PM

61. Yes, why bother. That may be because he's manic

and wanted to watch it burn

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:42 PM

68. Or maybe he wants to mobilize more LEO and emergency vehicles

to put the fire out and speculate about why he started the fire while he drives off. Maybe just another diversion.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #61)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:01 AM

90. Maybe he's channeling his 'Burn, baby, burn' mojo :) - n/t

 

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Response to Daninmo (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:27 PM

51. Another auto stashed seems likely with all that ammo and baggage

He's driving down the mountain in the other auto while the police are mobilizing to scour the mountain in hazardous weather, etc.

There was another thread around here started by someone who was listening to some kind of LE radio (?)and I think it mentioned another car.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:51 PM

73. Yes, I saw mention of small, white car, on the way to Nevada, perhaps. He has property there, maybe.

This thing could go on for a while. I am wondering if he is connected with any sort of group. There are some radical ones that might welcome him with open arms if he's gone full 'patriot.'

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Response to Daninmo (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:31 PM

53. Do you think playing this out alone will work? He's got to get food, water, fuel, etc. Unless he was

into the prepper thing, he wouldn't have the supplies.

Although his ex-girlfriend said he was paranoid and thought people might be out to get him. Could have done what you said, planned this out for some time?

He had the resources to do so with his employment with the PD and reserves. Might be stocked up somewhere. I'm wondering if all this would get to his nerves, though.

Could a person sustain the high level of attention and motivation required to continue this for a long time without any kind of moral support?

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Response to freshwest (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:43 PM

69. Correct.. he is out there on his own...

 

He is a product of our military complex...he asks too many questions...

As everyone knows.. you are not entitled to ask questions concering Drones or secret torture .

Maybe Americans need to start asking MORE questions.. not less....

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #69)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:47 PM

70. Oh, we're allowed to ask and argue - but not go on a killing spree.

His political views don't excuse killing civilians that were corrupt, as he claims. As hard as it is to get justice in what he complained about, vengeance isn't justice.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:28 AM

78. Navy Seals, The Russian, Israeli, English equivalent

From what I understand going SOLO in war footing is EXTREMELY wearing.

Fuck, I just rode my bicycle down the west coast and it almost broke me.

And that was just riding in traffic.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:44 AM

84. "...his ex-girlfriend said he was paranoid and thought people might be out to get him.".......

It sounds like people WERE out to get him. Like the LAPD.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #84)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:47 AM

86. But in her view, it was not justified, or she would have said so, no?

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Response to freshwest (Reply #86)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:12 AM

91. True, but she might not have known of the details........

about his problems with the LAPD. Anyway I always go with the old saying. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't out to get you.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #91)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:14 AM

92. Yep, old Henry Kissinger knew what he was talking about with that one. Folks are still after him...

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #84)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:37 AM

94. Apparently he got a restraining order against that girlfriend

Not sure that she's a credible source. She could have been projecting. It happens.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #94)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:41 AM

95. False.

He asked for a restraining order. He was denied.

"A copy of the posting was including in court documents filed by Dorner in Orange County when he sought a restraining order against the woman. It was denied."

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Dorner-Personal-Relationships-Ended-in-Legal-Actions-190497211.html

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Response to LisaL (Reply #95)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:44 AM

96. OK thanks

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:26 AM

77. Five-inch long bullets

Sigh.

Just when you think that the gun control hysterics can't get any less informed someone goes and gives themsleves a lobotomy.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:43 AM

98. He's living out the right-wing extremist fantasy

He's doing what all these right-wing militia types daydream of doing.

The thing that worries me is that his actions might somehow inspire some of these whack-jobs to action.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #98)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:43 AM

112. To me, you bring up a valid point......

in regard to your last sentence. I could (almost) see this guy becoming a hero to the militia types, except for one or two important facts. He's African-American and he's vaguely leftist in his views. I THINK (not really sure) that these two facts would disqualify him from hero status with the militias.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #98)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:45 PM

120. And he's finding out that nobody is rallying to his side

No smoldering rebellion or insurgency is flaring to life. The "militias" are not rushing to his aid.


So now he has a rifle that weighs 4 to 8 times what a regular deer/sniper rifle weighs, that shoots heavy, expensive, and uncommon ammunition, that he has to hump around, and that does not improve his skill as a shooter. Yay for him.


It takes uncommon skill to use a .50 to its full potential. If he can reliably hit a dinner plate no farther than 400 yards with a deer rifle, then that's his maximum effective limit, regardless of type of rifle cartridge. And 400 yards is a pretty darn good shot.

And a 400 yards, a decent .30-06 bullet still has more energy than an AR-15 or AK-47-ish rifle at point-blank range.

Common hunting cartridges are accurate to 800 yards or so. If you can't shoot accurately past that, a .50 does nothing for you unless you're shooting at armor plate.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:49 AM

103. I hope they get him soon

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:27 AM

108. He must be one strong dude to lug that kind of stuff around

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #108)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:10 PM

116. He certainly looks to be a very strong dude.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:25 PM

118. I hope he's carrying both of those things

He'll be exhausted from the exertion in short order. They're HEAVY.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #118)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:36 PM

127. It Would Be One Helluva Load, Sir

Sixty pounds at least for the pair, and that over and above any other arms and ammunition.

I used to, when younger, regularly do eight and ten mile runs shouldering a thirty-five pound barbell, but that was on pavement, not up-hill in snow....

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #127)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:08 PM

128. The twit feed I'm watching says two long range rifles, a glock, and cold weather gear

found in the burned truck. Let's assume he didn't have three .50s.

I'm still confused, if he's still up there, why leave the warmies? If he's not, if he had wheels, why leave the guns?

Of course, logic can only take you so far.

I think we're going to have to wait for his next appearance.

Hmm.

Edit: now saying two AR15s found.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #127)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:37 PM

130. It would be advantageous to all involved, sir...

...if he was found dead of a heart attack from carrying all that equipment. Or falling down a ravine.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:16 PM

129. I heard his mother was one of the teachers and the truck was rigged....

by professional truck bombers. He has big feet that are very effective in the deep snow...so probably heading for Northeast.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:29 PM

132. This is gut-wrenching case

As disturbing and convoluted Dorner's "manifesto" reads, you get a sense the abuses he cites were real. Unless you're delusional, you don't get this angry over abuses that really didn't occur.

At the same time, you don't want anyone else to get hurt.

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