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Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:27 PM

2 questions for those prone to calling gun owners "Delicate Flowers".

First, some background:

I live 1.5 miles as the crow flies (or as a man might walk) from the place where Murderin' Christopher Dorner burned his truck yesterday. I live in an area of The City of Big Bear Lake known as "Red Ant Hill". This subdivision has maybe 300 houses, and I'd say 40 of them are occupied full-time. If someone was looking to hide out overnight or for a few days, there are literally hundreds of houses here that could be used. I live at the very end of the only dead-end street on Red Ant Hill. There are no other full-timers within 10 doors in any direction except for at the bottom of my back yard. If Murderin' Christopher is as smart as everyone seems to think he is, and knows The City of Big Bear Lake well enough to find Forest Road 2N10 (where he burned his truck), he probably knows Red Ant Hill is the largest collection of vacation rentals in one place in the whole of Bear Valley.

Last night, I went to bed with my Glock 21 (.45 ACP) on the nightstand next to me. The mag was full and there was a round in the chamber.

Am I a "Delicate Flower" or paranoid in some way?

The Second Amendment gives me the right to do what I did last night. The gun is back in the safe now, because I'm pretty sure Murderin' Christopher is no longer in the vicinity. Does my statement about the Second Amendment make me inherently racist (and/or sexist, homophobic, white-supremacist)?

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Reply 2 questions for those prone to calling gun owners "Delicate Flowers". (Original post)
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 OP
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #1
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #2
geckosfeet Feb 2013 #8
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #11
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #12
Logical Feb 2013 #55
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #60
Deep13 Feb 2013 #101
Recursion Feb 2013 #3
Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #104
graham4anything Feb 2013 #4
Moses2SandyKoufax Feb 2013 #14
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #29
mwrguy Feb 2013 #67
Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #79
xmas74 Feb 2013 #83
slackmaster Feb 2013 #86
baldguy Feb 2013 #5
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #7
baldguy Feb 2013 #13
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #16
baldguy Feb 2013 #27
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #35
marions ghost Feb 2013 #96
flyover22 Feb 2013 #112
marions ghost Feb 2013 #115
flyover22 Feb 2013 #116
marions ghost Feb 2013 #118
flyover22 Feb 2013 #23
baldguy Feb 2013 #32
flyover22 Feb 2013 #110
orpupilofnature57 Feb 2013 #6
libtodeath Feb 2013 #9
former9thward Feb 2013 #10
alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #15
Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #77
Fumesucker Feb 2013 #17
LAGC Feb 2013 #51
Fumesucker Feb 2013 #52
JI7 Feb 2013 #18
TheCowsCameHome Feb 2013 #19
Electric Monk Feb 2013 #24
ThoughtCriminal Feb 2013 #39
jmg257 Feb 2013 #20
Downwinder Feb 2013 #21
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #30
Berserker Feb 2013 #22
flamin lib Feb 2013 #25
xoom Feb 2013 #38
Hoyt Feb 2013 #26
indie9197 Feb 2013 #28
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #31
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #33
indie9197 Feb 2013 #36
NoGOPZone Feb 2013 #34
one_voice Feb 2013 #37
madinmaryland Feb 2013 #58
one_voice Feb 2013 #62
madinmaryland Feb 2013 #64
one_voice Feb 2013 #65
madinmaryland Feb 2013 #66
one_voice Feb 2013 #68
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #70
baldguy Feb 2013 #73
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #91
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #93
flyover22 Feb 2013 #113
marions ghost Feb 2013 #97
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #100
marions ghost Feb 2013 #103
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #107
marions ghost Feb 2013 #109
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #111
flyover22 Feb 2013 #119
rdharma Feb 2013 #121
TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #40
onehandle Feb 2013 #41
slackmaster Feb 2013 #89
marions ghost Feb 2013 #98
Turborama Feb 2013 #42
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #44
Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #43
spin Feb 2013 #45
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #46
spin Feb 2013 #47
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #49
ecstatic Feb 2013 #48
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #50
dballance Feb 2013 #53
laundry_queen Feb 2013 #54
Marengo Feb 2013 #56
JI7 Feb 2013 #61
Marengo Feb 2013 #85
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #57
marions ghost Feb 2013 #99
dballance Feb 2013 #69
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #59
Skip Intro Feb 2013 #63
Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #71
sigmasix Feb 2013 #72
aandegoons Feb 2013 #74
Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #75
slackmaster Feb 2013 #88
Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #108
leeroysphitz Feb 2013 #76
rucky Feb 2013 #78
baldguy Feb 2013 #105
flyover22 Feb 2013 #114
Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #80
Glassunion Feb 2013 #90
Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #94
99Forever Feb 2013 #81
trumad Feb 2013 #82
Adam-Bomb Feb 2013 #84
slackmaster Feb 2013 #87
ellisonz Feb 2013 #92
denbot Feb 2013 #95
wtmusic Feb 2013 #120
Deep13 Feb 2013 #102
Soundman Feb 2013 #106
LWolf Feb 2013 #117

Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:30 PM

1. And As A Public Service, Sir....



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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:32 PM

2. Well that settles it then.

I am a paranoid Delicate Flower.

Thanks for your input.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:37 PM

8. Me too.

They can call me whatever they want.

I know where the "Trash This Thread" button is and it's been getting a workout lately.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:38 PM

11. People Deserve the Background, Sir

And you will note the point made in the cartoon is reflexive defense of gun ownership in the wake of a mass-murder, keyed to the idea that regulation is a prelude to registration and confiscation. Doubtless you will not be so foolish as to deny that line is a 'Team NRA' staple, and pernicious and destructive to reasonable policy. If you do not conflate regulation with confiscation, you are not who is meant. If you do, that is another matter....

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:40 PM

12. "If you do not conflate regulation with confiscation, you are not who is meant."

WIN

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:15 PM

55. Explain the "sir" usage please. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #55)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:50 PM

60. What, are you some kind of newb? That's how The Magistrate rolls. nt

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:36 PM

101. *sigh* nt

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:32 PM

3. Let it go

People are very upset. Some have chosen bad ways of expressing it.

You and I have views about firearms that are in the minority here. It doesn't make us wrong, but on emotional issues I try to tread lightly and expect blowback. I frequently fail.

We can make our argument, respectfully. But guns are a totem and taboo, and like all totems and taboos a certain amount of irrational eggshell walking is warranted. Just my two shillings.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:10 PM

104. Well said. nt

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:33 PM

4. From all that is written, nobody has anything to worry about unless they are directly

 

related to his past as it does not appear to be spur of the moment random killings, but it appears he has a list of specifics.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:43 PM

14. Some people who lead boring lives need the excitement.

They need to pretend that bad shit can befall them at any given moment. This is why a lot of suburban and rural types feel that they can't walk the streets or go grocery shopping without their sidearm on their hip. Also why people in the backwater parts of the country irrationally feared being the victim of a terrorist attack in the immediate wake of 9/11.

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Response to Moses2SandyKoufax (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:02 PM

29. I have absolutely no intention of ever carrying a concealed weapon.

Someone thinks someone might do bad shit... take a gander at the number of law enforcement officers here.

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Response to Moses2SandyKoufax (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:59 AM

67. Walter Mitty is alive and well.

And he needs lots of guns to make him feel like a badass.

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Response to Moses2SandyKoufax (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:23 AM

79. They watch to many "Die Hard" movies...whoa one opens next weekend!

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Response to Moses2SandyKoufax (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:49 AM

83. There were many fears of a terrorist attack in my neck of the woods

and we're rural. Then again, we're also located directly in what was called Strike Zone Three and lots of people were trying to get too close to the Stealth Bomber. (As in climb the fence too close. Some people have no common sense.)
That and a few local channels felt it was a great time to drag out The Day After and repeat it for reasons unknown. After that my town went nuts.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:48 AM

86. Keith Lawrence was two degrees of separation from anyone directly connected to Dorner's case.

 

That puts a whole lot of people in potential peril.

The man is obviously psychotic. Counting on him not to kill someone who he perceives as getting in his way is simply naive.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:34 PM

5. And how would things be different if both you and Mr. Dorner did not have access to guns?

Hmmm?

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Response to baldguy (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:34 PM

7. I'd say that's impossible to know. n/t

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:40 PM

13. It's a scenario you've never even considered.

Because you're too afraid to face life without your gun - you delicate flower you.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:45 PM

16. Tell me you don't think the world will ever enter the "no access to guns" phase.

Your scenario is not only not possible, it's laughable.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:01 PM

27. Show me any civilized country where the astonishing regularity of horrific civilian massacres

would be allowed? My scenario is the norm for the rest of the world.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:09 PM

35. "no access to guns" is the norm for the rest of the world??

I did not know that.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:17 PM

96. GOOD point

regular civilian massacres are not allowed in "civilized" countries. It's one of the definitions of civilized.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #96)


Response to flyover22 (Reply #112)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:03 PM

115. A lot are trying to sort that out

...huge potential for abuse with drones.

Me personally? I'm watching this debate. I think killing is rarely justified.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #115)


Response to flyover22 (Reply #116)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:14 PM

118. whoever that Michael fistula is...

we'd be better off without--that's for sure...

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Response to baldguy (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:52 PM

23. Have you ever called a person, face to face, a 'delicate flower'?

 

I just have to wonder.

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Response to flyover22 (Reply #23)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:07 PM

32. No, that would be rude.

But I have worked in a retail store and had to ask people who are carrying to leave, since they didn't need their guns there. (It was a liquor store.) Sorry, but I don't believe drunken yahoos with guns is a good idea for anybody.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #32)


Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:34 PM

6. Your not a " Delicate Flower " Your a victim of banks, I'd

worry about their plans to " Hide Out " more than a person without a roof .

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:38 PM

9. Cool story bro

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:38 PM

10. There are quite a few socially challenged posters on the internet.

Because of their lack of social interaction they have never gotten past 5th grade name calling either on the net or real life.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:44 PM

15. Yes, you're still a Delicate Flower

All the more so because the phrase itself seems to bother you so much that you'd blather out this whole post about it.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:20 AM

77. +1000...What sort of flowers does the OP like?

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:45 PM

17. Judging by what's happened so far you're in much more danger from the cops

In which case I'd say your chances of successfully engaging in a gun battle are somewhat less than zero.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:49 PM

51. I wouldn't be so sure about that.

The cops fired all those shots at those innocent women, and they SURVIVED.

Cops can't hit shit. They routinely empty entire magazines full of ammo and are still lucky if they hit their target.

The average gun-owner who practices at the range a couple times a month is more trained than most of your average cops.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:04 PM

52. The cops will bring ever increasing firepower to bear until you are dead or neutralized

The back of that truck looked pretty thoroughly ventilated to me, it was the size of the truck and the fact there were multiple layers of metal and seats the bullets had to go through plus I suspect the women more than likely had newspapers in the back seat.

The name David Koresh comes to mind.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:50 PM

18. i'm in the LA area and i'm more worried about driving in the Rain

sorry but i just can't get your position. and i have had experiences with bad things happening.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:50 PM

19. If you have to ask, you must be.

Otherwise, you'd know it didn't apply to you.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:52 PM

24. +1

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:22 PM

39. +2

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:51 PM

20. Like a boyscout, you were just being "well prepared"...

Just in case say, a large black man on the run from the cops decided to target your community.

Does that make you paranoid or racist? Of course not! Its like owning a fire extinguisher or having a jack in your car.



BTW, I wouldn't call you a delicate flower.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:52 PM

21. Did the Glock make you safer than

a vehicle in the drive or lights on to show evidence of occupation?

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:05 PM

30. We shall never know. n/t

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:52 PM

22. Glock 21 .45 ACP

 

Awesome self defense weapon. You did what MILLIONS of other gun owners would do that believe in self defense....PROTECT your family and yourself.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)


Response to flamin lib (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:20 PM

38. Wow..

 

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:55 PM

26. First, Hope you stay safe. Second, you had an excuse for your guns long before Dorner.


I assume you are not those things, but a lot of right wingers gun cultists are. So, to keep you happy, the rest of us have to put up with callous right wing gun nuts everywhere we go. Not worth it.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:02 PM

28. Don't put the pistol away, he is still up there somewhere!

I would feel safer with a 12 gauge semi-auto but that .45 is better than nothing. BTW, who would buy a house in a subdivision named "red ant hill" ?

Dorner says he has a 50 cal rifle but I doubt that is true because those are illegal in California.

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Response to indie9197 (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:07 PM

31. So is murdering people (illegal, that is)

I don't think the laws are something this particular subject cares too much about right now.

Also, I refer you to Iceland Vs. Greenland (maybe he knows something that we don't)

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Response to indie9197 (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:08 PM

33. I bought on Red Ant Hill because my house has an unobstructed view of Big Bear Lake.

And, it has a deck outside the kitchen that measures 15x20 and is 25 feet off of the ground.

Of course he doesn't have a .50; it's illegal. Problem solved.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:11 PM

36. just kidding about the name- an attempt at comic relief

Yours is a perfect scenario where someone should have a gun. Over and out!

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Response to indie9197 (Reply #28)


Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:11 PM

37. I'd like to say something about the 'delicate flower'...

thing. Before anyone comes rushing forward with the cartoon I know where it originated so please don't.

I don't like the delicate flower insult for this reason, if a male on DU was called a delicate flower (in a non gun setting) that comment would be hidden and considered homophobic; along the same lines as sissy and pansy.

However, it seems to be ok to say it because hating on gun owners is the new flavor this month, so you can pretty much insult them any way you choose. I personally don't like the double standard, and that is what I think it is. I'm sure I will get flamed for saying that but I really don't give a shit at this point.

I also don't like the sig line you're referencing--I think it's bullshit.

This is coming from a non gun owner.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:44 PM

58. Sheesh. Please do not compare being a "delicate flower" to homophobia.

Please. If you read the toon, you would know there is no comparison to being a sissy or a pansy.

The point is they cannot take any criticism of the point of view without being able to spout anything other the NRA and republican talking points. Pathetic.



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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:59 PM

62. Then I think I shall call those that are anti gun...

wilting violets, since they seem to melt down at the mention of guns. Seems fair to me.

It's silly and it's degrading. There are plenty of responsible gun owing DEMOCRATS that being trashed with this insult.

And I believe I mentioned, I know where it originated. I just don't agree with the way it's being used. Delicate flower combined with 'precious' and well...try that on any other male on DU outside 'gun talk' and see what happens.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #62)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:26 AM

64. There ARE plenty of responsible gun owners, until they are not. We see reports of this every

single day.

Apparently there is one running around in Southern California, who is supposedly liberal. People who thought Mr. Dormer should have the arsenal he has (and yes the are DEMOCRATS), are the Delicate Flowers and deserve NO respect.


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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #64)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:42 AM

65. Great, run out and take all the guns...

let me know how that works out for you.

Wilting violets.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #65)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:54 AM

66. You just showed that you are a delicate flower...

Next you'll be calling me a "gun-grabber"

Oh wait, you already did, yet I said no such thing.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #66)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:07 AM

68. Uh...I'd have to own a gun to be a delicate flower...

don't own one, never have. I'm not arguing from the side of a gun owner, but rather because I'm sick of seeing that tossed around here, and the bullshit reason that it came from a cartoon. Knowing full the fuck well that if it was said to any other male on here outside a gun conversation it wouldn't fly. It's a double standard. I will not apologize for pointing it out, nor will I accept the lame ass excuses for using it. For fuck sake I saw a comment hidden where the Cowboys were called Cowgirls as a Cowboys fan that's just shit talkin' where I come from but here it's homophobic, and yet we're passing this crap off---not fuckin buying it.

No, you're right you didn't say it in those exact words (taking guns)...but it was heavily implied. To say otherwise would make you, less than truthful.

So try again, not a delicate flower. As good as you felt about yourself in that moment that you got to call me a delicate flower...OMG you exposed me...how fucking great for you...I must now wear the scarlet DF on my DU screen name...er BUZZZZERRR....wrong number....no gun...so sorry.




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Response to one_voice (Reply #68)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:20 AM

70. Mehhh... its just words.

The anti-gun zealots don't have facts or reality on their side, so they resort to lies and name-calling. Tactics right out of the RW playbook, used by anti-choicers and tea party idiots. I'm sure they're proud of themselves for their clever mames, little realizing how how immature and desparate it makes them look. Let them continue until they become a joke. Rational people will have the last laugh. My only concern is the agz's costing us elections, which could well happen.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #70)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:57 AM

73. Anti-gun zealots don't have facts or reality on their side, so they resort to lies and name-calling?

Thank you for that observation, Karl Rove.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #73)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:22 PM

91. This post exemplifies what HW said.

Strange you don't see that...

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Response to baldguy (Reply #73)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:13 PM

93. QED. nt

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Response to baldguy (Reply #73)


Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #70)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:24 PM

97. "anti-gun zealots"

is name calling, yes?

You Do understand why some people might not be gun lovers?

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #97)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:59 PM

100. If they walk like a duck,

and quack like a duck, then its reasonable to refer to them as ducks. I haven't singled out an individual, as has been done to me many times.

I can understand why people are against gun deaths...we can agree that we all are. However, some people are targeting gun owners...the vast majority of whom have no involvement in gun deaths. I don't own any guns, but I enjoy messing around with cars. I don't want gun-owners (or anyone else) proposing legislation that limits what I do to a car, unless it has a legitimate purpose. Tags, insurance, maintaining safety and pollution control systems...sure. But not laws saying I can't bolt on mag wheels, a wing, a turbocharger, or any other thing I might wish to. If a gun owner wants to play Army, its not my bag, but I'm fine with leaving him alone unless he commits a crime...just as I wish to be treated.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #100)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:07 PM

103. OK

Now that I DON'T understand--how lax gun laws have anything to do with what you want to do with a car. Sorry, but there's no connection in my mind. Except for the paranoia.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #103)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:52 PM

107. Its the anti-gun crowd thats paranoid.

Thinking each and every one of 100 million gun-owners is a threat to gun then down in a hail of lead. That simply isn't the case, and its paranoid to think so.
I have no reason to be paranoid. The government can't take away guns I don't own, nor do I view gun owners a threat. They want to participate in their pasttime with other gun owners, and be left alone from unnecessary regulation. Just as I do with my pasttimes of choice, as you do with yours, as we all do.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #107)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:28 PM

109. what I meant

was paranoia about govt regulating car art/modification being similar to gun owner paranoia about sensible regulation. But I don't see cars as being like guns in any way.

You seem to have a closed mind on this subject, tho you're not a gun owner. Consider the ways that unregulated guns invade all of our lives, regardless of the "odds" that we will be killed by them. It's a heavy toll, a huge loss of personal freedom. Not to mention the societal distress we all experience at yet another Sandy Hook, Aurora, Va Tech, Columbine, etc etc. And who would want to campaign openly for public office as a liberal, after what happend to Gabby Giffords? Think about it. Think about our reputation around the world (it sucks). This is having a very negative effect on American society as a whole.

Sorry but guns are just not like "any other past time." I don't think most people would agree with you there. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #109)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:46 PM

111. I know what youre saying,

But these headline events aren't being committed by legal gun owners. Lanza stole his guns. Columbine killers used straw purchases. The fireman killer used straw purchases. Aurora, VT, and Giffords shooters had mental issues that should have prevented them from owning weapons. Most gun owners would be in favor of tightening background checks, they are all in favor of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. However, regulating certain types of guns, or cosmetic features of guns, does nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals but merely restricts what guns legal gun owners can have...which makes no sense.
Back to my car analogy, which I perhaps didn't fully state... Suppose there were several instances of drunk drivers killing multiple people, and the drunk drivers were driving cars with mag wheels and wings. Would it make sense to ban mag wheels and wings? Would it make sense to ban any vehicle with 4 wheels? Obviously not, yet that is exactly what most of the gun-control proponents are calling for. What does make sense, is to prevent a drunk person from getting behind the wheel...that is what gun-owners are asking for.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #111)


Response to one_voice (Reply #65)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:30 PM

121. take all the guns...

 

Who is talking about "taking all of your guns"?

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:34 PM

40. Why do you care about their childish monikers and lame ass dick jokes

I don't give a shit about what about half of them think at all on any subject. Funny how the only "liberal" branch in some trees happens to be an assault on a civil liberty and to reverse democratization of power. Lurves them some banksters, drones, wireless wiretaps, and are always talking some old bullshit about being "bipartisan".

I think it is very interesting that folks seeking to concentrate power to the few and take it from the many think they are acting as liberals anyway.

The fact they need their goofy tactics also tells me they aren't terribly confident, whistling past the graveyard seems more like it though maybe they are trying to push buttons in hope of a reaction to blow back from to gain a bit more traction be a real life incident or just board level shit to harp on.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:54 PM

41. The Second Amendment has nothing to do with what you did.

Paranoia is what led to the Second Amendment being misinterpreted, not your situation.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:03 AM

89. The security of a free state includes the security of every individual and household in the state

 

And of every farm, village, town, and city, as well as that of the state as a whole.

If every person does not enjoy the right to be secure, than the right means nothing.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #89)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:26 PM

98. Build a more "secure" society

where people don't have to resort to guns...

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:09 PM

42. 1 question for you

Did you plagiarize my sigline or is it just coincidence/synchronicity?

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Response to Turborama (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:24 PM

44. Plagiarized and paraphrased, but alas, not from you.

I don't remember where I saw it actually. I think maybe one day while looking for a new sigline I looked for irreverent quotes at the Google.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:15 PM

43. Meh...I just call them "Precious Snowflakes" in return.

Then we've both got that whole "call the other side a disparaging name" thing out of our systems and maybe a productive discussion can follow. It's the sort of thing that only bothers you if you choose to let it.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:35 PM

45. Perhaps as a gun owner, I actually am a delicate flower. If so I would suppose that I am a rose. ...

Love is much like a wild rose, beautiful and calm, but willing to draw blood in its defense.
Mark Overby

A thorn defends the rose, harming only those who would steal the blossom.
Chinese Proverb

You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses.
Ziggy

Man is harder than iron, stronger than stone and more fragile than a rose.
Turkish Proverb

(http://www.allgreatquotes.com/rose_quotes3.shtml0

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Response to spin (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:40 PM

46. I love the Ziggy quote.

Actually I love all four. Thanks for that.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #46)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:50 PM

47. One of my favorite rock groups is ...



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Response to spin (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:56 PM

49. Big GnR fan here as well.

Wish they could see their way to reconciling.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:52 PM

48. I don't have a problem with you owning a gun for self defense, but I think you endangered yourself

by having a loaded glock on your nightstand. I hear lots of accounts of trained police officers having accidents with that gun. Glocks don't have a safety, you already chambered a round... reaching out in the dark during a bad dream could prove a deadly combination. WAY too much room for error. Just keep your lights on and I doubt he will bother you (unless cornered by the police and seeking a hostage situation, in which case, you'd have plenty of warning and time to get your gun since you'd see the high speed chase, helicopters etc. approaching your home).

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #48)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:29 PM

50. I appreciate your response. You make good points.

The Glock does have a safety though, and one needs to put their finger inside the trigger guard in order to begin the firing process. You mentioned reaching out in the dark during a bad dream. I'm 51 years old and have no history whatsoever of "reaching out" while dreaming, be they good dreams or bad.

That said, I'd never pick the gun up with my finger INSIDE the trigger guard.

About the lights... most of the vacant houses here have lights that go on and off with a timer. That's kind of like having a car alarm and going into the mall.

I'm no longer concerned about him bothering me. Last night when it was all fresh and every So. Cal. news crew was here, and even a crew from Univision, and his truck was found in such close proximity to my neighborhood, it just seemed like a good idea. I am neither ashamed nor proud of it.

I wasn't looking for a fight like some imply. I don't EVER want to point my gun at another person.

I grew up in L.A. County, near Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm. The sound of helicopters was something you never even noticed because it was so common. I lived across the street from a hospital with an Emergency Room so sirens were also something I had to be listening for to hear. Last night there were helicopters doing laps around the area where his truck was found, looking for any heat signature with their FLIR. My house was right underneath their search pattern. It was all just a little disconcerting.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:06 PM

53. Yes, As A Matter of Fact You Are Paranoid

Dorner's manifesto is against law enforcement authorities, not common citizens like you. There's no evidence he wants to harm civilians or take hostages. You're not a target for him. If he were in your neighborhood shooting it out with the cops you should hit the deck to try to avoid stray bullets.

If you feel you have to sleep with a loaded gun next to you on your nightstand then you're either paranoid or live in neighborhood which you should consider moving out of. If Dorner is as smart as is claimed he'll be able figure out your house is occupied and move on to one that's not to break into for cover or to rest.

You asked the question. There's my answer.

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Response to dballance (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:11 PM

54. Agree.

In fact, I can't believe what the OP did. I think it's the very definition of paranoia.

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Response to dballance (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:20 PM

56. Was Monica Quan LAPD?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #56)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:55 PM

61. no, but she was the daughter of one and he threatened the families of them, bu t i live

in the LA area also and don't feel the need for a weapon so to me i do consider some who react as the OP to be delicate flowers.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #61)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:43 AM

85. The post I responded to stated...

"Dorner's manifesto is against law enforcement authorities, not common citizens like you. There's no evidence he wants to harm civilians or take hostages."

Monica Quan was a civilian, and certainly harmed.

However, I do see that dballance has clarified his statement.

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Response to dballance (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:28 PM

57. I asked the question. You answered it. Here's my reply...

His "manifesto" is against "law enforcement authorities"... That's why he killed a female civilian and her fiancÚ, right? Was Ms. Quan a civilian or a cop? You the "manifesto"? Some pretty straightforward and believable shit, right? Is that why he addressed Tim Tebow in his "manifesto"? Does his addressing Tebow and others including an ACTOR lend credibility to his "manifesto", or detract from it?

Yesterday morning a known killer killed 3 people who had NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER to his complaints and was known to have disappeared in a remote wooded area 1.5 miles from my house. Last night I had helicopters over my house all night long. There were by my count (before I fell asleep) at least 5 sirens. I haven 't experienced that since I lived in S.E. Los Angeles County. Last night was the ONLY time in my fucking life I've ever slept with a loaded gun within reach.

When the neighborhood I live in (which I moved to for its serenity, beauty, and remoteness) suddenly becomes inundated with sirens and flashing lights because law enforcement is looking for a known killer, I don't feel bad because I took my gun out of the safe.

You call it paranoia. I call it peace of mind.

The gun is back in the safe.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #57)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:35 PM

99. I don't blame you for being afraid

but in the same situation, I would just batten down the house, not open doors, activate my German Shepherd, and and wait it out. I wouldn't feel the need for a gun, even in that situation. It's doubtful he would beat down your door.

On the other hand, totally normal to feel paranoid in this case. But could you get through it with your gun locked in the safe?

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Response to dballance (Reply #53)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:15 AM

69. Okay, So He's Killing Civilians Related to People in his Past Too - I erred.

I erred when I said he isn't interested in harming civilians. I should have made it more specific and said he's not interested in killing civilians who are not tied to his past. I stand by my statement that if you have to sleep with a loaded gun on your nightstand you are paranoid. Whether it's for one night or every night unless you live in a battle zone or very crime-ridden neighborhood it's not necessary. Notice, I didn't say it's never necessary.

If you were an LAPD officer, his former attorney, or people otherwise involved with his adjudicating his complaints in the PD or court then you'd have a reason to be afraid. But that would not mean you were paranoid, it would mean you were reacting to a real, not imaginary, threat.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)


Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:06 AM

63. My guess would be most repsonding would have done the same given the same circumstances.

You have a right, and a responsibility, to protect yourself, and being prepared to protect yourself is part of that equation. Would relying on 911 really have been the best option for your protection? Of course not. Most of the respondents to this thread know that in the back of their minds, even if they argue otherwise.

Had they been there, say, with an elderly parent or a young child...there's no question what any reasonable person with a means of protection would have and should have done.

There is never any need to apologize or even justify exercising your rights and responsibilities. (Of course you clearly know this, but it may strike a chord of reality in one or two passing judgment from fantasyland).

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:30 AM

71. Relax

I seriously doubt this guy is within 100 miles of his burned truck. He's a little smarter than that.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:58 AM

72. justified and warranted

your reaction, given the situation is justifiable and warranted. However I believe the "shrinking violet" epithet is directed towards the gun fetishists that spend so much time and emotion conflating regulation with confiscation and wild-eyed conspiracies about the government's "true" intetentions for all gun owners. I own a .357 that was my grandfather's weapon- it is kept clean, unloaded and locked away. I take it out to shoot at the range sometimes just to maintain my familiarity with it. I am fully aware of the many studies that indicate gun ownership more often leads to heart ache for the owner or thier family, however my wife and I made a decision a while back, when the teabaggers started all of the gun threats and suggestions of targeting disabled and other "freeloaders", we decided to educate ourselves about the use of guns in deterring violent attackers.
Funny thing is- I've been robbed at gun point and had other violent crimes committed against me, yet the teabaggers of America still represent a more dangerous entity to myself and my family.
Universal BRCs is not fascism or agenda 21 encroachment; it's just common sense. There are some that would like to take all guns away, but they have no political or real social power in any meaningful way, yet teabaggers and NRA parrots accuse everyone they disagree with of agreeing with and having the ulterior motive of the complete gun ban people. All adults understand what the main problem with attempting these types of discussions is; the constant panic and fear mongering of right wing media and the NRA- and the parrots that continue to ape NRA-approved, fox "news" repeated talking points meant to support the conflation of regulation with confiscation and allude to conjectural rumors of larger attacks on white people, thier children and democracy, all done by president blackenstien.

So, if you subscribe to all of that silly, antiamerican right wing zealoutry concerning guns and our president- THEN you would be a shrinking violet.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:01 AM

74. The paranoid delicate flowers can always find some outlandish and made up situation.

To defend their actions. I think that is actually in the definition somewhere.


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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:10 AM

75. How does your "scenario" prevent registration of your favorite safe toy?

Do you think that a round of 30 cop killer bullets is called for? Do you support the NRA's paranoia?

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Response to Jakes Progress (Reply #75)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:56 AM

88. You are ignorant of our laws. Handguns are in fact registered in California.

 

Please take a moment to check the facts before you post nonsense.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #88)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:27 PM

108. Your ignorance is showing by your hiding from my question.

I did not ask if he was registered. But you knew that. You were just trying to call names while ducking the obvious issues. Seems a little flower-like to me. Try standing up to the questions.

Do you favor registration of all guns?

Do you support the NRA stance on registration?

Does your "scenario" support the need for assault weapons and 30 round clips?

There lies true ignorance.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:12 AM

76. Paranoid gun nut. n/t

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:21 AM

78. Gun owners keep telling us how responsible they are

and I don't doubt it.

But why don't I hear more responsible gun owners advocating for laws/programs that assure all gun owners are responsible?

In your example, when the gun is out of your sight/possession, it's locked in a safe.

I assume you would advocate for other gun owners to do the same. It would mean more coming from a gun owner than someone who could easily be labeled as gun grabber.

Granted, the name-calling between gun owners & non-gun owners doesn't help elevate the debate, but those are the types of conversations we should be having.

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Response to rucky (Reply #78)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:53 PM

105. Ah, but Chris Dorner was a responsable gun owner too. Until he wasn't.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #105)


Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:27 AM

80. Hell with these delicate flowers....as a responsible gun owner I demand my god given right for a

backyard drone base.

I want a nice one, two tier, surrounded by shrubbery.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #80)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:43 AM

90. You should get some guards to place around the shrubbery.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #90)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:18 PM

94. +1000!

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:38 AM

81. If you ...

... value your guns more than other peoples lives, find an excuse to oppose every reasonable attempt at stemming the insane level of GUN VIOLENCE in this Nation, and bristle the sane people of America having had their fill of fearing that some "law-abiding, reasonable gun owner" will pop their cork and mow down him, her, their family or friends because of causes unknown, you ARE a Delicate Flower.

If that offends you, that's your problem to deal with.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:47 AM

82. God forbid if your wife woke you up from a deep sleep..

Bang

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 09:58 AM

84. Pfft.

Disclaimer: I am new HERE, but nowhere else.

I have been called many things in my life, but "Delicate Flower" is
not one of them. Of course, on the Internet anything is possible.
"Delicate flower?" What a lame-ass moniker, really.

Why don't folks quit with the name-calling and purse-swinging; it
is stupid and makes one sound like a 3rd grader. Calling someone
or implying someone is racist because of gun ownership is ignorant,
insulting, and WAY out of line.

I don't care what people think of my firearms or me owning them, but
it DOES piss me when it is implied that I'm racist for having them. This
kind of stupidity belongs on the OTHER side of the political spectrum, not
here.

Knock it off, please.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:50 AM

87. I put my Smith & Wesson .38 Special Revolver back in the safe last night...

 

...but still have my Ruger 10/22 and several loaded magazines deployed.

The California state constitution explicitly refers to inalienable rights to defend life and liberty, to protect property, and to privacy. In one of the nation's oldest implementations of Castle Doctrine, the right of people to use deadly force to protect themselves in their homes and businesses is codified in Sections 197 through 199 of our Penal Code.

More power to you and to the people. What you do in your home is nobody else's business.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:50 PM

92. You would be seriously out-gunned.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:38 PM

95. If you strap-on a AR-15 clone to shop at JC Penneys, you're a delicate flower.

My late sister used to live around the corner from you in the Peter Pan tract, she was no D.F. And would of had a weapon on standby. You took a reasonable precaution, and the assholes who are deriding you for it far removed from your situation can pound sand.

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Response to denbot (Reply #95)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:26 PM

120. +1

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:42 PM

102. Honestly, if I thought there was a real reason to doubt my security...

...but there was nothing specific for a call to the cops, I would have had a .357 carbine handy. Really, why not be ready for the unlikely? I have a CO detector and a fire extinguisher in my bedroom too.

And, like you, I would have put it away when I knew the danger was gone.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:53 PM

106. I think it makes you a lot of things.

 

I don't think it makes you a racist or homophobic why would it? I just wonder what you think you were accomplishing? I guess it is probably lucky that you didn't have any uninvited guests or family show up in the middle of the night and startle you.

I am also curious about one thing. As a person who stated their reluctance to shoot first and ask questions later (my interpretation of your posts), would fare against a person who has already shown they can kill with impunity and further stated they will not be taken alive?

My guess, by the time you were aware of the intruder the muzzle flash from his weapon would be the last thing you saw. Of course I could be wrong, but history tells me the man who can kill without a second thought will win every time over the man who has something to live for. Especially if he has the drop on you.

If it were me and I was at that level of paranoia, I would have bugged out for the night.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:11 PM

117. 1. I have never called gun owners "delicate flowers."

2. My best friend lives in BB, and had to collect her daughter from a local school after the lock down. She doesn't own a gun, and did not go home to freak out. She simply let us know what was happening, and that they were okay, and went about her life.
3. I have nothing to say one way or the other about your choices; they are yours, not mine. What they make you is up to you.
4. My choice: I choose not to live in fear. I choose not to be influenced by fear mongers. I live rurally, alone, with very few neighbors nearby and no gun to save me from idiots and psychos. I do live within auditory range of regular gunfire. It's rural; there are target shooters and hunters within range. If I knew there was, or had been, a fugitive in the area, I might lock my doors. If I could first find the keys.

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