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Fri Feb 8, 2013, 06:59 PM

 

Women shot during LAPD ex-cop manhunt had no warning, lawyer says

Contrary to stories on KFI yesterday, the two women shot were not Asian but Latinas. It was a mother and daughter delivering papers.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/08/16900348-women-shot-during-lapd-ex-cop-manhunt-had-no-warning-lawyer-says

Updated at 5:59 p.m. ET: A mother and daughter who were mistakenly shot by Los Angeles police hunting for rampage suspect Christopher Dorner had no warning before bullets started whizzing through their newspaper-delivery truck, their lawyer said Friday.

"No command, no instruction, no warning. They just opened fire on them," said Glen Jonas, who is representing Emma Hernandez, 71, and Margie Carranza, 47, in possible legal action against the Los Angeles Police Department.

"They had no idea what was going on. They're huddling, covering up and praying and hoping they're not going to die."

Both women survived. Hernandez, shot in the back, was in good condition Friday. Her daughter suffered a hand injury and is physically fine but emotionally scarred, Jonas said.

67 replies, 5216 views

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Reply Women shot during LAPD ex-cop manhunt had no warning, lawyer says (Original post)
GiaGiovanni Feb 2013 OP
SunSeeker Feb 2013 #1
GiaGiovanni Feb 2013 #3
JI7 Feb 2013 #8
frylock Feb 2013 #23
BlueCaliDem Feb 2013 #51
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #5
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #53
sasha031 Feb 2013 #6
robinlynne Feb 2013 #10
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #57
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #2
JI7 Feb 2013 #4
Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #9
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #29
Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #35
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #38
Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #40
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #58
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #62
Mr.Bill Feb 2013 #65
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #66
JohnnyBoots Feb 2013 #7
Lurks Often Feb 2013 #11
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #12
FourScore Feb 2013 #13
DirkGently Feb 2013 #14
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #22
rocktivity Feb 2013 #15
Benton D Struckcheon Feb 2013 #17
woodsprite Feb 2013 #30
RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #26
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #16
Moonwalk Feb 2013 #28
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #31
Moonwalk Feb 2013 #32
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #33
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2013 #41
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #42
PA Democrat Feb 2013 #64
tama Feb 2013 #39
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #43
tama Feb 2013 #44
OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #45
tama Feb 2013 #46
Fumesucker Feb 2013 #47
MH1 Feb 2013 #49
Fumesucker Feb 2013 #50
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #54
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #18
RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #24
SaveAmerica Feb 2013 #19
plethoro Feb 2013 #20
rickyhall Feb 2013 #21
frylock Feb 2013 #25
Beaverhausen Feb 2013 #27
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #59
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #61
Catherine Vincent Feb 2013 #34
Cha Feb 2013 #36
Terra Alta Feb 2013 #37
kudzu22 Feb 2013 #52
davidpdx Feb 2013 #48
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #60
Dawson Leery Feb 2013 #55
rhett o rick Feb 2013 #56
Psephos Feb 2013 #63
steve2470 Feb 2013 #67

Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:04 PM

1. Wow. They are lucky to be alive.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:08 PM

3. No kidding. They are apparently not well off.

 

Their attorney was on KFI and even the hard-core drive time hosts offered to send money for a new truck.




http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-shootings-newspaper-carriers.html

"The problem with the situation is it looked like the police had the goal of administering street justice and in so doing, didn't take the time to notice that these two older, small Latina women don't look like a large black man," Jonas said.

Officials seeking Dorner describe him as black, 6 feet tall and weighing 270 pounds.

"We trust that the LAPD will step up and do the right thing and acknowledge that what they did was unacceptable, and we'll deal with it," Jonas said.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:13 PM

8. also there are many large black men , so even then it wouldn't have been right to just

shoot based on "large black man" type of description.

i saw on guy on the news yesterday who people suspected could be the guy. he was black and large but otherwise looked nothing like dorner. i felt bad for him but he just seemed kind of relieved he was ok then. i'm pretty sure someone like him is used to dealing with cops just based on being a black man. but in this case he could have easily been killed by some incompetent like the cops who shot at the women.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:01 PM

23. oh, i think their paper delivery days are over..

I hope they sue LAPDs balls to the wall.

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Response to frylock (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:04 PM

51. Me, too, and that the police officers are relieved from the duties WITHOUT pay

and indefinitely. WE can't have shoot-first-ask-questions-later Rambo-wannabes patrolling our streets. This incident is inexcusable (although many here are trying to do just that - make excuses for these imbeciles).

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:10 PM

5. Thankfully the detectives were lousy shots.

That is good for the women, LAPD...not so much.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:04 PM

53. Reports are many bullets in neighborhood homes and cars.

Those cops may have broken every rule in the book, and should not only be fired but have criminal charges filed.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:11 PM

6. Yes last time I heard the poor elderly woman was in intensive care.

I hope they sue they hell out of the LAPD, no one is safe in S Ca.

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Response to sasha031 (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:19 PM

10. they have a lawyer already!

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Response to robinlynne (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:43 PM

57. Hubby and I would have gotten one as well.

If Los Angeles is bright, they will pick up the medical costs, get them a brand spanking new truck and settle out of court...it will be cheaper that way.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:06 PM

2. This is beyond any possible excuse or explanation

 

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:09 PM

4. good, the cops should be fired and hopefully they get a large amount

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Response to JI7 (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:15 PM

9. Cops should not only be fired

They should be charged with attempted murder.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:58 PM

29. ITA

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:57 AM

35. Okay, I give up. What is ITA?.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:04 AM

38. I Suspect, Sir, It Means 'I Totally Agree'

And I do....

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:09 AM

40. Thanks. I'm an old fart and not up on all the initial speak.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #40)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:44 PM

58. LOL! ;-)

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #40)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:55 PM

62. I have considered buying a dictionary, net speak to English.

The scary part is...they make them.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #65)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 08:09 PM

66. Thanks

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:12 PM

7. Hopefully they

 

Never have to work another day in their long lives.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:19 PM

11. The officers involved should be prosecuted, not just fired.

It is inexcusable and unacceptable for police officers to open fire without seeing a visible threat or identifying the person. Those poor women looked NOTHING like the suspect.

Unfortunately the likelihood of them receiving something other then a proverbial slap on the wrist is small.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:21 PM

12. The officers should be charged with attempted murder

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:34 PM

13. I hope they sue the hell out of 'em,

and never have to work another day in their lives!

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:35 PM

14. Wow. Kind of tips LAPD's hand as to how


... they're going to handle this guy if they find him.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:56 PM

22. There are only two ways he survives.

1. Arrested by police in another state for another reason, then discovering his identity while already in custody.
2. MAYBE if the FBI gets ahold of him first.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:36 PM

15. This pic supports their allegations

Last edited Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:27 PM - Edit history (1)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef017d40da0bf1970c-640wi

Note that the truck is still in the middle of the street -- they weren't even asked to pull over.


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:59 PM

17. Ambushed.

Bullet riddled, and from behind.

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Response to Benton D Struckcheon (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:10 PM

30. Just like an organized crime hit. n/t

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:05 PM

26. Wow - COWARDS

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:41 PM

16. I don't see how in the hell two Latino ladies could have been mistaken for Dorner. nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:47 PM

28. From the story it seems they mistook the truck, not the ladies--I doubt...

...they saw who was driving. It was predawn (still dark) and these guys were guarding the home of someone who they thought the killer was targeting. They see a truck moving slowly, no lights on--meaning that it's not only hard to see the truck (it's color, etc), but who is driving it. They assume it's their guy come to kill those they're guarding. And so they start shooting.

All of which makes what they did a little more understandable if not forgivable.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:23 PM

31. Not understandable and not forgivable in the least. That wasn't a checkpoint in Afghanistan. nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:55 PM

32. Totally understandable--by that I mean, we can UNDERSTAND why they did it--

On edge, on guard duty, on the look out for a killer with a lot of deadly weapons and willing to shoot and kill police. To these guys they *were* at a checkpoint in Afghanistan--on the look out and prepared for someone they saw as a terrorist armed to the teeth and ready to kill them all.

Now, were they right to think that way? In a quiet Torrance neighborhood, no. They weren't right to think that way; it made them trigger happy, made them forget their training, made them paranoid and irrational. And, hence, they shot up a truck driven by two innocent women.

But I don't see how any of that makes what they did beyond understanding. It's very easy to UNDERSTAND why they started shooting. If we can understand why psychotic killers kill or terrorists plant bombs or soldiers under great stress might go on killing rampages we can certainly understand why these police started shooting.

That is what I meant by "understandable." Did you think I mean something else, because your response wasn't reasonable given what I said.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #32)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:12 AM

33. My definition and your definition of the word "understandable" must be diametrically opposed....

....if you think that's "unreasonable", so be it.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #33)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:15 AM

41. Why do you even bother responding with that tripe?

If you have no intention of qualifying your opinion, what's the point?

He wasn't excusing their actions. He was just trying to figure out why the cops would have done something like this. You deride him for showing a little empathy? Christ, how childlish.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:46 AM

42. Thanks for your concern. Enjoy your stay. nt.

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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #32)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:58 PM

64. "Understandable?" Absolutely not. Anyone that quick to fire dozens of shots without a positive ID

has no business in uniform. NONE.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:09 AM

39. Thanks for your consideration

 

for people in Afganistan etc. Otheristans killed and maimed at checkpoints.

We others are so much less human that Americans, thanks again for reminding.

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Response to tama (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:48 AM

43. Try not drinking heavily while you post....

....so that others can understand what you're trying to say.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:52 AM

44. Yup, I'm drunk

 

But can you imagine how some guy in Afganistan whose loved ones were killed at US checkpoint would read your comment: "That wasn't a checkpoint in Afghanistan."

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Response to tama (Reply #44)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:58 AM

45. Whatever. nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #45)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:04 AM

46. No, not "whatever"

 

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:44 AM

47. You appear to be saying that shooting up innocent people would have been OK in Afghanistan

That's the way I took your words anyway, perhaps you meant what you said in some other way though.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:08 PM

49. If you look at the post he responded to, you might read it a different way.

It probably would have been better if he'd said "war zone" instead of "Afghanistan".

From the post he replied to:

It was predawn (still dark) and these guys were guarding the home of someone who they thought the killer was targeting. They see a truck moving slowly, no lights on--meaning that it's not only hard to see the truck (it's color, etc), but who is driving it. They assume it's their guy come to kill those they're guarding.


Then claims this makes the cop's actions "understandable".

I'll admit, I haven't read all these details in the news. But this is the argument being made: that the cops were justified in shooting up the truck because it was dark (couldn't see who was inside) and truck was moving toward them with no lights on. Now, put yourself as an army private at a checkpoint in a war zone, and a car is coming toward you with its lights off. No, you probably aren't supposed to just start shooting (I seem to remember a bad case where that happened, and it was awful), but if we are talking understandable it is closer to that realm in a war zone. But in a residential neighborhood? WTF?

That's how I read it. I can see how others would read it differently. But I try not to assume the worst of other posters, when it is more likely just that their point was badly stated.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #49)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 04:40 PM

50. Actually I read the entire exchange, including a couple of more replies up to "whatever"

It was the dismissive "whatever" that prompted my reply to an earlier post.



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Response to Moonwalk (Reply #28)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:19 PM

54. A simple tag check before shooting would have indicated it wasn't Dorner.

Paper deliverers drive about 10 mph. There's no evidence to suggest they were fleeing. And the women's lawyer says there was no command to stop, and I assume the cops didn't turn on their flashers or sirens. It was an ambush, plain and simple, and the cops had the wrong persons.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:08 PM

18. Donner is a terrorist. These women are lucky the LAPD does not yet have armed drones.

 

Which, in case some are still confused, is the reason others of us are freaking appalled at this whole "It's okay to kill Americans if you think they are bad" argument.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:04 PM

24. +1000

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:52 PM

19. LIke old school gangsters, I hope the ladies can retire to Hawaii

or some other tropical location with the money they should win after this treatment.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:33 PM

20. This is the MO of LAPD and has been ever since I've lived around them, first in North Hollywood and

 

then West Hollywood. I have seen Rampart Division do things that I could not believe. They shot these women in cold blood and I hope they fry for it.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:44 PM

21. Cars not bulletproof?

Damn, bullets bounce off cars on tv right?

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:04 PM

25. fuck tha police

they had the authority
to kill a minority

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:22 PM

27. They were delivering papers a few houses away from one of the men

Threatened in Dorner's manifesto. I guess the cops just assumed it was him. I hope the women recover fully.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:46 PM

59. Since when do police just shoot without warning, without attempting arrest?

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:54 PM

61. A "hot stop" was in order

Not open fire and ask questions later.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:21 AM

34. Unbelievable

Have those officers been fired yet?

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:00 AM

36. I can't even imagine the trauma.. I know it would

be bad. So lucky to be alive and I hope they get well compensated for being shot by the police.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:03 AM

37. so much for "good guys with guns".

Thank God these women weren't killed. I hope they get a nice settlement from the LAPD, and be set for life financially.

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Response to Terra Alta (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 05:17 PM

52. Let's not confuse the LAPD with good guys

mmmkay

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:49 AM

48. And we wonder why the LAPD has such a bad reputation

I thought I had read there was another shooting like this where someone was mistaken for the guy they are looking for. Is that the case or am I confusing the two situations.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #48)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:52 PM

60. You are not

Thankfully weapons skills by LAPD are way deficient. In that case they missed, badly.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:24 PM

55. The corrupt LAPD is only harming their officers on the street

with these actions.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:32 PM

56. "Had no warning?" I believe "If you live in the LAPD, consider yourself warned."

Does the Constitution even mention "warning before shooting". Jeez.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 07:57 PM

63. Trust authority.

High power, large-capacity, semi-automatic and automatic weapons should only be in the hands of those who can be trusted to use them responsibly, and not fall prey to hot emotion.

Like the police.

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Response to GiaGiovanni (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:31 PM

67. Women to get "car donation":

LAPD Chief Charlie Beck arranges car donation for women whose truck was shot by police in Torrance, mistaken for Chris Dorner's truck

https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/300448711987822593

10:38 PM - 9 Feb 13

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