HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » This response ends the de...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:17 AM

This response ends the debate on gay Scouts.

THU FEB 07, 2013 AT 09:39 PM PST
This response ends the debate on gay Scouts.
by 8ackgr0und N015e

I recently spoke to the mother of an Eagle Scout about the current debate in Scouting regarding the official policy of discrimination against gay boys and adult leaders.

The woman is active duty. Although she is not a flag officer, she has a very senior officer's rank and decades of service. When she arrives on base, virtually everyone salutes.

Her response to my question stunned me. It was very matter-of-fact and puts this entire debate to bed in one fell swoop:

A primary reason Baden Powell formed the Scouts was to provide training to young men that would prepare them for military service and leadership. It is the policy of the United States military that gay men and women are accepted and valued within the ranks at all levels. If the Boy Scouts want to continue preparing young men for military service, then they need to align their policy with the military's.



AND, GOD AGREES:
@TheTweetOfGod

The Boy Scouts postponed their decision on admitting gays? What, were they not prepared?
7:56 PM - 06 Feb 13

https://twitter.com/TheTweetOfGod/statuses/299245164025753601

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/08/1185495/-Ending-the-debate-on-gay-Scouts-in-three-sentences

14 replies, 2507 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply This response ends the debate on gay Scouts. (Original post)
kpete Feb 2013 OP
Journeyman Feb 2013 #1
Smarmie Doofus Feb 2013 #2
SunSeeker Feb 2013 #3
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #4
DinahMoeHum Feb 2013 #5
2naSalit Feb 2013 #6
OldEurope Feb 2013 #7
2naSalit Feb 2013 #11
LanternWaste Feb 2013 #8
LineLineLineNew Reply
OldEurope Feb 2013 #10
2naSalit Feb 2013 #12
FSogol Feb 2013 #9
Flagrante Feb 2013 #13
NMDemDist2 Feb 2013 #14

Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:29 AM

1. Great tweet from God -- "What, were they not prepared?" . . .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:31 AM

2. Why do the BSA hate America? n.t.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:32 AM

3. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:36 AM

4. Damn, Ma'am --- The Lady Nailed It Cold

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:52 PM

5. "Girl Scouts wear green berets" - we used to joke.

Wonder why little or no issues/problems regarding Girl Scouts and LGBTs?

Gee, maybe it's because the Girl Scouts have had little/no qualms accepting them within their ranks - hell, too many Bible-bangers look at them and girl athletes as "lezzies" anyway, so WTF?

The Girl Scouts are probably grateful they have such opposition - it certainly sells more cookies, at least here among my fellow DUers!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022213785

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:15 PM

6. I am going to stick my neck out

and say something I've said and felt to be true for a long time now. I think that the main reason that there was such an adamant refusal to accept gays in the military is that they indoctrinate those men/boys to the utmost extreme concepts of macho (which also includes abuse of women in many cases and not just on base or in the theater of war) that they couldn't handle the possibility that men would suddenly be subjected to possible sexual harassment from other men.

I'm sure that isn't the entire reason but I highly suspect that it is an underlying factor that nobody has the cajones to talk about. Just the horror of the possibility of their machoness being questioned was just too much to worry their gun-totin brains with. the real world is not a component of the military mindset.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 2naSalit (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:54 PM

7. " the real world is not a component of the military mindset."

I'm afraid the opposite is true. The military mindset is influencing the real world in your country to the exces. Many men seem to deny women's rights, and the rights of other parts of your society. They consider their right to bear arms higher than the right to live for other persons. In many states it is lawful that teachers beat their students, and they do. The scouts are trained to be good soldiers. So the children grow up in a mindset of violence.
What is most disgusting IMHO: that mindset is teached as beeing Christian. Jesus, if he existed, cried.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldEurope (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:24 PM

11. The issue that I was

describing is that the military world view is far from the way things really are. In the US military mindset, which the scouts prepare these boys for, is misogynist, highlights the effects of testosterone laden lifestyle and no reasonable acceptance of cultures that do not mimic that of the military mindset. Their intent is to foist, by brute force, the world views of the US military mindset upon all other cultures of the world so they can be accepted by them and their US rulers.

I've been around enough boy scouts of many generations and I feel that my perception is appropriate. And, in my past experience with the military first hand, I can tell you that the concept of spousal and child abuse among the enlisted was rampant to the point of epidemic, not sure how they handle these issues now-a-days but as recently as the 1980s it was quite the norm.

And I agree with you about the alleged Christians and their skewed perception of the message of the Jesus character.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 2naSalit (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:01 PM

8. What specifically leads you to believe that?

"they indoctrinate those men/boys to the utmost extreme concepts of macho (which also includes abuse of women in many cases.."

What specifically leads you to believe that? I never witnessed nor heard anything resembling that during my five years in scouts. Do you have specific examples of this which are objectively indicative of this "indoctrination" as a whole?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:17 PM

10.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:29 PM

12. Reread what I wrote, that quote is from my decription of the military

and the point being that if the scouts are anything, they are preparation for entry into the military by defining the concept of "manhood" and the manly things real men do. And there are plenty of bullies and abusers in the scouts no matter what you saw, there are many who exist in the ranks, just look at the most recent abuse case that was in the media last month.

And it is indoctrination in both organizations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:06 PM

9. While I agree with her sentiments, she is not fully correct.

While the British Scouts that Lord Baden Powell started did have a military component, the Boy Scouts of America founded in 1910 never had a military component. That said, the scouts should join the rest of the nation in the 21st century.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:54 PM

13. If that's the case they should let Girls join the Boy Scouts

Women are now allowed in combat, so are gays, time for the Boy Scouts to become The Scouts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Flagrante (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:02 PM

14. i think that's brilliant!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread