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Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:18 PM

We're in "Minority Report" territory now, folks.

In the futuristic movie "Minority Report," three clairvoyants were used to predict 'imminent' murders -- much more imminent than the definition used by our government in the recently leaked 'white paper' -- and the suspect was then arrested and sentenced for his/her "future murder."

Now, without the benefit of such clairvoyance (which turned out to be fallible, though that was covered up by the project's designer/ administrator), we are doing the same thing to suspected or known terrorists -- before they actually commit a crime, and with less knowledge of what that crime might actually be (in the future) than the police in "Minority Report."

Actually, we're not doing the exact same thing -- there is not even a sham trial like in the movie, and we're not taking them alive. And we're not sending in a swat team, we're sending in a drone; so anyone nearby just gets indiscriminately killed too as collateral damage. But hey, at least we're not doing it in our own country. Yet.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply We're in "Minority Report" territory now, folks. (Original post)
Flying Squirrel Feb 2013 OP
2on2u Feb 2013 #1
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #2
Flying Squirrel Feb 2013 #3
YoungDemCA Feb 2013 #6
woo me with science Feb 2013 #11
Efilroft Sul Feb 2013 #13
woo me with science Feb 2013 #19
pecwae Feb 2013 #18
woo me with science Feb 2013 #20
Catherina Feb 2013 #4
DearAbby Feb 2013 #5
Flying Squirrel Feb 2013 #7
Recursion Feb 2013 #8
leftstreet Feb 2013 #9
Recursion Feb 2013 #10
Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #16
woo me with science Feb 2013 #12
Efilroft Sul Feb 2013 #14
woo me with science Feb 2013 #15
Ichingcarpenter Feb 2013 #17
woo me with science Feb 2013 #21

Response to Flying Squirrel (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:21 PM

1. As they say, that's fucked up. n/t

 

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:15 PM

2. I'm sure you were equally concerned when Dubya started us down this road, right??

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:18 PM

3. Yes, I was.

My moral compass functions independently of politics.

If you check my profile, you'll see that I was formerly known as FlyingSquirrel (no space) on DU2. Feel free to research my positions in the Bush era. Here's one OP to get ya started:

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4199015

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:34 PM

6. Why is Obama continuing down it, then?

Who is he kidding with this egregious violation of the Constitution?

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:20 PM

11. That's a STUNNINGLY audacious and hypocritical post.

kestrel91316 (43,992 posts)
2. I'm sure you were equally concerned when Dubya started us down this road, right??



Virtually all of DU was vociferously against this crap when Bush did it. In fact, we did not have significant conflict over the issue here until a DEMOCRAT was elected and a certain group here decided that party was more important than principle. It's pretty damned clear where the hypocrisy lives.

I think you'd better check your own hypocrisy meter. It took me all of a minute in a Google search to find this from you, written during the Bush administration, and I don't doubt there would be more like this:

In response to a 2006 post titled, "Drone Aircraft may Prowl US Skies," you wrote:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=790556&mesg_id=790696

kestrel91316 Thu Mar-30-06 12:02 AM

10. My dad was a career USAF officer and worked for years on the

early (1970s) development and testing of these things. He must be rolling in his grave at the thought of them being used against Americans on American soil (he wasn't any RW nutjob).

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:39 PM

13. Said group's trial balloon is not working with a lot of posters here.

Expect a refined list of talking points to be released soon.

As Carville might say, "It's the hypocrisy, stupid."

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Response to Efilroft Sul (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 09:44 AM

19. The propaganda on this will be relentless

as long as it is in the news, which won't be long, of course.

The media will attempt to move on swiftly, and we will be expected to quietly accept it as the new normal.

I think you are right about the refined talking points, but I also expect lots of attempted distraction onto other issues and an attempt to make this "ho hum" and old news.



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Response to woo me with science (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:03 AM

18. Words indeed have consequences

and the Internet contains years of them.

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Response to pecwae (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:37 PM

20. Indeed. nt

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:27 PM

4. We sure are.

Thanks because I couldn't remember the name of the film last night. That's exactly where we are.

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:29 PM

5. Only one crime was defined in the Constitution.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. -Article 3 Section 3

I would update that confession part, with Modern technology. We really need a confession in court, or would a you tube video be enough? Say like the slackjaw Alex Jones, who believes he should have access to the exact same firepower, just in case he has to fight tyranny. When do citizens turn to domestic terrorists?

This is the debate we should be having. By the way, I don't pity traitors.

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Response to DearAbby (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:24 PM

7. I don't pity traitors either..

But was the American-born son of an American member of Al Quaeda a traitor?

And if our own Government no longer feels constrained by the U.S. Constitution by which it is supposed to be constrained, is it a lawful government any more? Do I become a traitor for advocating against a no longer lawful government? Big questions IMO. Easily answered with a drone strike, though.

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Response to DearAbby (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:36 PM

8. "Piracy" was also mentioned, though left to Congress to define

I think that's a better rubric for terrorism than treason, personally.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:38 PM

9. And Counterfeiting


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Response to leftstreet (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:39 PM

10. Good old Ben Franklin had the answer for that



To Counterfeit is DEATH

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Response to Recursion (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:53 AM

16. Death was for small counterfeiters

Large counterfeiters (a.k.a. the Continental Congress and various state governments) were allowed to renege on their promises to redeem Continental Currency, meaning that they had essentially engaged in counterfeiting, and giving rise to the expression "Not worth a Continental".

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:30 PM

12. K&R

Indeed, we are.

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:48 PM

14. Key part of the memo for me.

"The condition that an operational leader presents an 'imminent' threat of violent attack against the United States does not require the United States to have clear evidence that a specific attack on U.S. persons and interests will take place in the immediate future."

No evidence? Yeah, this won't end well.

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Response to Efilroft Sul (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:20 AM

15. It's chilling. It's unconscionable.

It's not the country I ever thought I would live in.

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:33 AM

17. I said the same thing last Wednesday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022320280#post5


After reading the memo and comments, I'm thinking of the movie 'Minority Report' taken from a short story from Philip K Dick. There is no test outlined to determine if someone is a high ranking member of al Quaeda. There is no requirement to prove beyond reasonable doubt, by preponderance of evidence, by anything whatsoever, that someone is an imminent threat. In fact, the individual cannot even sue the government to prove he does not meet the requirements for "legal assassination." The only possible legal recourse anyone could have is to sue the administration after he is assassinated and claim that he did not meet the administration's own definition. This, of course, is impossible.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:55 PM

21. Like the dunking chair and the Salem witch trials.

We are well into dystopian territory at this point.

This is all chilling.

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