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Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:59 PM

Do we really need Secret Death Panels and Assassination Drones to protect us?

How much of a real "threat" are these "terrorists" and "traitors"?
...small bands of outlaws/outcasts, hiding in primitive deserts,
plotting against the USA,
committing "treason" while sitting around a camp fire,
training on monkey bars and shooting AK47s.
Do they really merit an abridgement of our Constitution,
and a surrendering of our civil protections?

Are we so frightened of a handful of asshole "traitors" like John Walker Lindh...

....that we are willing to accept the collateral damage killing and maiming of innocent children in our quest for "justice"?

The handful of Saudi criminals that attacked us on 9-11
should have been caught and arrested long before they committed their crimes, and this was BEFORE the creation of the Homeland Security Department.
9-11 was a demonstration of poor Law Enforcement much more than a demonstration of the power of terrorists.

Bill Clinton managed to capture, put on public trial, and imprison all the perpetrators of the original WTC bombing in the 90s without Death Drones and Assassination lists.


How much more of a threat do we create by the inevitable mistakes and "collateral damage"
that happen with these strikes?
How many more "terrorists" do we create?

Do YOU have the capacity to Stand in their Shoes and see your children killed by Death from the Sky without warning,
ordered by people you had never seen,
as revenge for an act for which you have no responsibility,
an act that was also committed by other people you had never seen?

We have the technology and capability to track and intercept these threats before they cause harm by using Surveillance and International Law Enforcement.
Why is it so important to kill them where they sit TODAY by whatever means when we can just watch, track, wait, and quietly grab them at another time?


Lesson from the Past:
An entire WAR with the deaths of MILLIONS of innocents was justified in SE Asia because:
"If we don't fight the Communists there,
we will be fighting them in California."




We LOST that WAR and retreated back to the USA with our tails between our legs.
The policy of Killing them ALL was a lot harder than the warmongers had figured.
As it turned out,
the "Communists" (the "terrorists" of the 60s) never showed up in California.
Go figure.
Maybe we should have just left them alone


As an American citizen, I have certain Rights.
These Rights are discussed frequently.
But as an American citizen I also have certain Responsibilities
which are not discussed so frequently.

One of the Responsibilities bestowed upon me
it the responsibility to provide oversight.
I have the responsibility to observe my government perform its duties.
It is my responsibility to attend Public Trials,
to view the evidence,
and to hear the governments case.
It is ALL of our JOBS to provide this necessary oversight,
and to Speak Out when the government fails to adequately perform its duties.

If these activities are cloaked in secrecy for whatever reason,
I am unable to fulfill my responsibilities in this democracy.
Democracies do not thrive in secrecy.

Must we surrender our Democracy in order to protect our Democracy?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."--Ben Franklin

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Reply Do we really need Secret Death Panels and Assassination Drones to protect us? (Original post)
bvar22 Feb 2013 OP
villager Feb 2013 #1
tblue Feb 2013 #3
WillyT Feb 2013 #4
EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #6
bvar22 Feb 2013 #10
Arctic Dave Feb 2013 #11
MuseRider Feb 2013 #12
polly7 Feb 2013 #13
frylock Feb 2013 #21
leftstreet Feb 2013 #7
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #18
cthulu2016 Feb 2013 #2
libdem4life Feb 2013 #5
MuseRider Feb 2013 #8
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #9
Catherina Feb 2013 #14
Octafish Feb 2013 #15
felix_numinous Feb 2013 #16
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #19
felix_numinous Feb 2013 #24
Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #26
99Forever Feb 2013 #17
Rex Feb 2013 #20
woo me with science Feb 2013 #22
JI7 Feb 2013 #23
Coyotl Feb 2013 #25
tkmorris Feb 2013 #27
DCBob Feb 2013 #28
RC Feb 2013 #29
CrispyQ Feb 2013 #30

Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:02 PM

1. The fear is strong among those busy apologizing our constitution away....

And several levels above that, the manipulation of that fear is even stronger...

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:07 PM

3. ^^^ What villager said. ^^^^

If it would anger us if a Republican administration did it, what does that tell you? Answer: It's WRONG. Period.

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:11 PM

4. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!!


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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:16 PM

6. My apologies aren't out of fear. It's just that I sincerely don't give a damn.

 

It's nothing more than some scrolling text on a news ticker to me.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:25 PM

10. Did you forget the sarcasm thingie?

Because, if not, then I am truly stunned.

You know, this IS being done in secrecy in YOUR name.
Lack of dissent IS approval.

"scrolling text on a news ticker to me",
but in the deserts of the 3rd World, it IS dismembered children,
blown to pieces in YOUR name.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:05 PM

11. Then not only are you an apologist to murder, you are also a damned fool.

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:09 PM

12. This is almost the worst thing

I have ever read on DU, or anywhere for that matter.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:11 PM

13. Incurious and apathetic ....... like a slug. nt.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:13 PM

21. you're a fucking coward

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:18 PM

7. +1

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:45 PM

18. well said

 

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:02 PM

2. More so than we need land invasions to protect us

I am staunchly against the absense of judicial review in certain targeted assassinations.

That said, some need for protection is real. That doesn't mean we go after the right targets, but there is some actual need.

Drones are better morally and ethically, and probably practically, than conventional air-raids or invasions.

There is a case for them.

That doesn't mean our current campaign is effective. That is a hard question to answer from the outside.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:14 PM

5. Oh my, that photo virtually ended the war. I always suspected it was approved because they were

tired of the war, couldn't win it, couldn't back down but it was time to tweak the consciousness of the country with the torture of a child...I'll never forget that photo. Little girls was probably taking a bath.

I was anti-war before it, and fu##ing anti-war after. And we weren't even "at war". It was merely "an incursion".

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:18 PM

8. Well written and well thought out.

Thank you.

Nothing to add to that.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:20 PM

9. "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". Isaac Asimov Or, in America, the first resort.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:18 PM

14. Beautifully done. Rec'd and rec'd and rec'd! n/t

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:23 PM

15. Secret Government is un-American.

Decisions made in secrecy.

Traitors marked for Death in secrecy.

Wall Street plundering made in secrecy.

War profiteering for the connected cronies.

Penury, poverty and debt slavery for the 99-percent.

Our nation has not been a democracy or constitutional republic for a long while. Some report it's a "Polyarchy," what Sheldon Wolin calls a “managed democracy.” Sounds better than "secret government," which is what it's been since Nov. 22, 1963.

No oversight. No accountability. No responsibility.

Even when gangsters operate in the open.

Thank you for your essay, bvar22. Proud to KRB.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:31 PM

16. Thanks Bvar

and to all the other peaceful people on this board. I don't know what we can be done, we have had peace marches, signed petitions, and have written reps about peace. People like Dennis Kucinich could not make headway against the MIC.

Orweillian propaganda is out there convincing people that the militarization of our police, constant surveillance and the use of drones is good for us and peace activists are a domestic threat. They are dividing and conquering this country, and have destabilized it so it can be plundered like so many before.

The President is wrong on this policy, we all lose in an arms race. Isn't that once a conclusion we had at the end of the cold war? What has changed since then? The invention of the drone will just inspire counter measures, which may be worse, on and on.

Peace~~~Felix

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Response to felix_numinous (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:50 PM

19. All the marches and letters mean nothing if we still give them our votes

 

All those anti-war marches, the MILLIONS of people around America who took to the streets to say end the wars now...

The people in Washington laughed. And why not. It's like complaining about Chick-Fill-A's anti gay stance to the manager as you order a sandwich.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:43 PM

24. The corruption is deep

look what happens to someone like Kucinich. Government and military/banking/corporate $$ interests would not allow anyone in office who is that liberal.

It is hard to watch, and realize we have no voice.

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Response to felix_numinous (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:14 PM

26. Yeah. :(

 

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:43 PM

17. Thank you Bvar.

It pains me to watch as our Nation becomes the very things it was supposedly founded to oppose.


Shame on the entire Barack Obama Administration and every person who supports this clearly Unconstitutional brand of murder by dictatorial edict.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:53 PM

20. You don't understand, this is all about making money.

The MIC will be the end of us one day. No one will stop the insane amounts of money we pour into private contractors to make drones and whatever else is needed to promote the fictional "War on Terrorism".

We will become as extreme as those we are fighting - already have with the Patriot Act and the creepy sounding Department of Homeland Security.



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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:15 PM

22. Thank you, thank you, thank you, bvar22.

Beautiful, necessary OP.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:18 PM

23. Clinton did order some missile strikes when he was President

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:57 PM

25. Protect us from what? Critics, I suspect.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:18 PM

27. They don't exist to protect us

Not even a little bit. They are there to protect money and political power, and nothing else.

But I strongly suspect you know this already.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:26 PM

28. I am sure no one on this board knows the answer to that question.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:41 PM

29. Well worded, well thought out and accurate.

 

I too fear for our country.

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Response to bvar22 (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:59 PM

30. A most excellent question:

Why is it so important to kill them where they sit TODAY by whatever means when we can just watch, track, wait, and quietly grab them at another time?


As an American citizen, I have certain Rights.
These Rights are discussed frequently.
But as an American citizen I also have certain Responsibilities
which are not discussed so frequently.

One of the Responsibilities bestowed upon me
it the responsibility to provide oversight.
I have the responsibility to observe my government perform its duties.
It is my responsibility to attend Public Trials,
to view the evidence,
and to hear the governments case.
It is ALL of our JOBS to provide this necessary oversight,
and to Speak Out when the government fails to adequately perform its duties.

If these activities are cloaked in secrecy for whatever reason,
I am unable to fulfill my responsibilities in this democracy.
Democracies do not thrive in secrecy.

Must we surrender our Democracy in order to protect our Democracy?


Well said. I have been stunned at what I've read on DU, regarding this issue. I thought this was a "progressive" board, but I guess it's an Obama board - if Obama does it, it's ok. Cuz, I think if Romney were prez, the dialog would be quite different.

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