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Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:47 AM

Two of Phelps' granddaughters leave Westboro Church

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/02/06/4052727/two-members-leave-westboro-church.html#storylink=omni_popular

Two granddaughters of Westboro Baptist Church firebrand Fred Phelps have split with the Topeka-based congregation, indicating their views have evolved and they now regret the pain they have caused others.


--snip-

A statement signed by both sisters and posted on social media Wednesday said the two were trying to figure out their future.

“We know that we’ve done and said things that hurt people,” the statement said. “Inflicting pain on others wasn’t the goal, but it was one of the outcomes. We wish it weren’t so and regret that hurt.”

Steve Drain, a spokesman for the church, said in an interview Wednesday that the sisters had rejected the Lord. “We can’t control whether or not somebody decides, when they grow up, that they don’t want to be here,” Drain said. “Those two girls were kind of straddling the idea that they wanted to be of the world but that they would also miss their family, the only thing they ever knew. If they continue with the position that they have, those two girls, yeah, they’re going to hell.”


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Read the full article at the link above.


30 replies, 2508 views

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Reply Two of Phelps' granddaughters leave Westboro Church (Original post)
lastlib Feb 2013 OP
barbtries Feb 2013 #1
AAO Feb 2013 #14
longship Feb 2013 #2
siligut Feb 2013 #9
KurtNYC Feb 2013 #3
TrogL Feb 2013 #4
justiceischeap Feb 2013 #7
TrogL Feb 2013 #15
jwirr Feb 2013 #8
annabanana Feb 2013 #5
caraher Feb 2013 #6
Sissyk Feb 2013 #17
Politicub Feb 2013 #18
Liberalagogo Feb 2013 #10
Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #11
hue Feb 2013 #12
oberliner Feb 2013 #19
Skelly Feb 2013 #20
oberliner Feb 2013 #27
magical thyme Feb 2013 #28
oberliner Feb 2013 #29
magical thyme Feb 2013 #30
Chorophyll Feb 2013 #13
WilliamPitt Feb 2013 #16
lastlib Feb 2013 #25
Kablooie Feb 2013 #21
shawn703 Feb 2013 #22
freshwest Feb 2013 #23
Shankapotomus Feb 2013 #24
farminator3000 Feb 2013 #26

Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:22 AM

1. "yeah, they're going to hell"

i think they're leaving it.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:47 AM

14. I thought that was for "God" to judge? Sounds like Blasphemy to me!

 

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:26 AM

2. Lovely church, that one.

"... they're going to Hell."

<-- do I really need this?

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Response to longship (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:19 AM

9. That is how they console themselves for being so stupid

They have to continually lie to themselves and thus condemn anyone who threatens their fantasy world.

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:27 AM

3. Good for them!

Everyone has a moral compass. Good to know that theirs are working.

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:33 AM

4. I had them on my twitter for awhile.

They got really upset when I'd quote Bible passages they weren't familiar with or discussed Greek grammar.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:09 AM

7. Ever quote the story of Jesus healing the Roman warriors male lover? nt

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:50 AM

15. Yes, actually. The problem is that a "Bible Christian" won't accept a sociological argument.

To them, the Bible says what the Bible says and only in English. To them, you're reading into the word "servant" because there's no literal translation from the Greek in English. Also, they don't care what was happening in society at the time. If it ain't the Bible, it didn't happen.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:19 AM

8. There is nothing like a Christian with a good theological training to confront these bigots. Thanks.

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:59 AM

5. I hope they are warmly welcomed to their new life.

They have known nothing BUT this poisoned family all their lives. They are incredibly vulnerable right now and subject to exploitation. I hope that there is a welcoming community available to them to help them transition.

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Response to annabanana (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:08 AM

6. Absolutely

They're victims of years growing up in an abusive cult, and deserve every consideration as they recover.

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Response to annabanana (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:00 PM

17. I hope so also.

I can't imagine being raised with that much hate for the world by your parents and grandparents. Hopefully, this generation will be the start of the end for Westboro!

I wish these two young ladies well!

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Response to annabanana (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:01 PM

18. +1 anyone can change and I think we should give the benefit of the doubt

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:32 AM

10. GOD hates granddaughters!

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:35 AM

11. Defections are usually the beginning of the end for organizations like this

It always starts with a few, and then grows...

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:41 AM

12. More power to them! I love these brave, intelligent Young Ladies!!

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Response to hue (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:02 PM

19. Brave intelligent young ladies??!

Are you kidding? Have you seen the things they have said/tweeted over the past few years?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:36 PM

20. they were intelligent enough

to figure out what they were told and brought up to believe was a lie (many quite older than these two ladies still haven't figured it out). Then, they were brave enough to not only do something about it, but what they did required them to leave their families, and the only way of life they have never known. Not an easy thing to do.

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Response to Skelly (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:25 PM

27. Fair point

Hopefully they can atone for the damage they've inflicted.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:22 PM

28. they were brainwashed from before they were born

It took incredible insight for them to overcome that brainwashing, and courage for them to leave the only world they've ever known.

If you read the article, you will see that they are staying with a sibling who had left earlier. They are paving the path for additional young family members to leave.

That they have done so, and done so publicly, is already significant atonement.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:01 PM

29. OK - but what about the other people they have hurt?

What about those who were at the receiving end of their hateful words, deeds, and tweets. Have you seen the BBC doc on the church and their involvement? They have a LOT to atone for. 27 years old is not a child.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:17 PM

30. I didn't call 27 years old a child

But when you've been brainwashed your entire life, that is literally all you know. Their escape is no different than the escape of Jeffrey whatizname's Mormon child brides. It isn't easy, it doesn't happen over night, many never make the break. Even now, the "spokespeople" are calling for them to burn in hell. That is their parents and siblings calling for them to burn in hell.

It is not so easy to leave your family and the beliefs that were put into your brain your entire life. Many people are never able to...I suspect the majority.

Certainly I feel for the victims of their hateful words. As somebody who grew up bullied, I can totally empathize. But at least their hate was limited to words. Words hurt vulnerable children far more than adults, who normally have developed the capacity to tune them out. And their hateful words have repeatedly been mitigated by protesters turning up at funerals to surround the grieving families.

As somebody who has recently lost several loved ones, I also know that when one is grieving, stranger's words don't penetrate. Even a kind person officiating is barely present in your consciousness. I don't mean to suggest that what they do doesn't matter; only that the pain of loss is so great that what they do barely exists in comparison. It's like a hangnail when you've been stabbed in the heart. Your total focus is on your lost loved one and your bleeding heart.

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:45 AM

13. That's good news.

I can't really see this "church" hanging together very well once that delusional old loon kicks the bucket.

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:55 AM

16. Evolution.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:06 PM

25. --gasp!--

how can that happen, Will? The Bible says if you believe in in, you're going to hell! It's right there in The Gospel according to Fred, ch.2, verse 4!

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:44 PM

21. That's amazing for people who've been raised since birth within the cult.

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:47 PM

22. Are either or both of these women

In that documentary about their church some years back? I just remember watching it and thinking how odd it was listening to them tell another person they were going to hell in a matter-of-fact way and with smiles on their faces.

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Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:02 PM

23. I found a little more on skepchick, showing in the midst of insanity, logic works:

She left last November but her announcement was apparently timed to coincide with this article from Jeff Chu.

In Chu’s piece, Phelps describes the moment she started seriously thinking about alternatives to the viewpoint she was raised with: “My doubts started with a conversation I had with David Abitbol,” she says. Megan met David, an Israeli web developer who’s part of the team behind the blog Jewlicious, on Twitter.

“I would ask him questions about Judaism, and he would ask me questions about church doctrine. One day, he asked a specific question about one of our signs— ‘Death Penalty for Fags’— and I was arguing for the church’s position, that it was a Levitical punishment and as completely appropriate now as it was then. He said, ‘But Jesus said’—and I thought it was funny he was quoting Jesus—‘Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.’ And then he connected it to another member of the church who had done something that, according to the Old Testament, was also punishable by death. I realized that if the death penalty was instituted for any sin, you completely cut off the opportunity to repent. And that’s what Jesus was talking about.”

The story supports the idea that I (and many other skeptics) have long stressed: the key to winning someone over isn’t to do it all in one argument but to plant a seed of doubt that eventually grows. It’s amazing that Megan and her sister were able to overcome years of indoctrination and leave. It appears from the article as though Megan still believes in a god, but I’d be very interested to know if the sisters are in touch with their brother uncle, atheist Nate Phelps, and whether or not they’ll be exploring the possibility that God doesn’t hate fags not because he’s a great guy but because he’s not really there.


http://skepchick.org/2013/02/megan-and-grace-phelps-leave-westboro/

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Christians differ on the application of those verses, dependent on their level of humanity and humility. That's the crux of the difference between conservative and liberal believers, in my experience. The former are more judgmental of others, only because they have not grasped the logic that they, too, are eligible for hell.

They often use the 'born again' excuse, which is like the 'rapture' both added on to allow them to get away with what they have done or plan to do wrong. Despite the phrase in scripture, it's a logical fail as they apply those concepts.

Because if they were 'born again' with hearts like children, they would not be judgmental. If they were too good for life in this realm and deserving of escaping the End Times, they'd already be gone.

JMHO, not interested in religious debate.

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Response to lastlib (Original post)


Response to lastlib (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:48 PM

26. STeVE frigging DrAIn???

Steve Drain, a spokesman for the church,

that Megan is a looker! she can join my church (of one) anytime!

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