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Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:17 AM

 

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Reply Message auto-removed (Original post)
sadalien Feb 2013 OP
lunatica Feb 2013 #1
EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #2
Go Vols Feb 2013 #3
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #36
el_bryanto Feb 2013 #4
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #5
MineralMan Feb 2013 #6
sadalien Feb 2013 #8
MineralMan Feb 2013 #9
sadalien Feb 2013 #12
MineralMan Feb 2013 #15
sadalien Feb 2013 #16
MineralMan Feb 2013 #17
sadalien Feb 2013 #19
MineralMan Feb 2013 #22
randome Feb 2013 #41
sadalien Feb 2013 #42
marions ghost Feb 2013 #11
MineralMan Feb 2013 #13
marions ghost Feb 2013 #14
NNN0LHI Feb 2013 #7
HappyMe Feb 2013 #10
Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #38
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #18
slackmaster Feb 2013 #20
The Magistrate Feb 2013 #21
MineralMan Feb 2013 #23
slackmaster Feb 2013 #25
MineralMan Feb 2013 #26
slackmaster Feb 2013 #27
MineralMan Feb 2013 #30
FarCenter Feb 2013 #24
Floyd_Gondolli Feb 2013 #28
randome Feb 2013 #29
bunnies Feb 2013 #31
randome Feb 2013 #33
bunnies Feb 2013 #34
dmallind Feb 2013 #32
kooljerk666 Feb 2013 #35
Gold Metal Flake Feb 2013 #37
dmallind Feb 2013 #39
longship Feb 2013 #40

Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:30 AM

1. They're already doing most of what you mentioned

We've been discussing it, including posting a vast amount of links for years here on DU. Some cities already have drones and use them. The following is an article from February 2012.



Congress OKs 30,000 flying drones spying on Americans across U.S. cities

Thursday, February 09, 2012 by: J. D. Heyes

"...In case you didn't know it - and you probably didn't - Congress, with little fanfare, passed an FAA reauthorization bill last week President Obama is expected to sign into law that will make it much easier for the government to put scores of unmanned spy drones into American skies.

Not only that the legislation authorizes the Federal Aviation Administration to develop regulations for the testing and licensing of commercial drones by 2015. If the law takes full effect, it is believed as many as 30,000 drones could be hovering over the U.S. by 2020.

The drones, which are widely used in Afghanistan to spot and target suspected insurgents and Taliban operatives in that country as well as neighboring Pakistan, have been used by American government agencies like U.S. Customs and Border Protection, a division of the Department of Homeland Security, for a few years, in an observation/surveillance capacity. DoH has also used drones in disaster relief operations, and advocates say they can be successfully employed to fight fires and locate missing hikers.

Say Good-bye to Privacy

Privacy advocates, however, are sounding the alarm good and loud."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034919_spy_drones_America_surveillance.html#ixzz2KDvdInEb

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:34 AM

2. I'm against domestic drones. Have no problem with them thousands of miles away. nt

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:55 AM

3. If you are in East Kentucky

I would guess they are already there.If not,soon.

That’s where drones come in handy in the war on drugs.

On Tuesday, officers used one of the unmanned aerial vehicles to locate 744 marijuana plants — with a street value of about $1,000 per plant — in a field in the north end of Milton.

Halton Police have had the drone since 2009

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:32 AM

36. The border patrol has a fleet of five

Then there the ones used by the DEA in the good ol US of A.

It's just a matter of time before they are armed.

Well, you must mean from where you live, since CONUS, they are already here.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:00 AM

4. Why yes - I'd be totally fine with all of that

Frankly if they need to drop a bomb on my house to keep me safe, I'm fine with that too.

Bryant

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:03 AM

5. There Is A Police Camera Catty-Corner From My Front Door, Sir....

"Funny thing, life."

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:04 AM

6. Seems like a very unlikely situation, actually.

In St. Paul, MN, where I live, there is a house on my block where there is a lot of evidence that drugs are being sold from it. Cars driving up, with someone going to the door, then immediately returning to the car. Lots of them. So we've reported it to the cops and they're doing an investigation. That was a month ago. They're monitoring activity from plainclothes cars, which I notice from time to time.

My point is that they didn't immediately send out drones or break a door down just because I reported suspicious activity. I'm thinking that's standard practice.

Now, if one of those helicopter drones was hovering over my house, I'd call the police to see what was up. I wouldn't be afraid of it, because I'm not under suspicion of anything at all, nor is there any reason for any suspicion. But, I'd check with the police.

As far as weaponizing drones, I don't think that's very likely. The smaller drones that are likely to be used by police aren't powerful enough to even carry them, and larger drones that could are generally not capable of hovering over backyards.

I believe you are in a panic over something that is very unlikely to happen. Keep monitoring the situation, though. If such drones start showing up over your house, they're probably looking in your hoodlum neighbor's yard for some sort of criminal evidence.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #6)


Response to sadalien (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:08 AM

9. No, actually everybody isn't a potential suspect.

Please use your powers of reason, OK? There are not enough cops and other LEOs to treat everybody as a suspect. There's not enough money to ever make such a thing happen. If you think people are watching you, you're almost certainly wrong. You're not that interesting, really.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #9)


Response to sadalien (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:21 AM

15. You have no idea whatsoever about the complexity

of mass monitoring of communications, it seems.

While I am in no way a "senior intelligence officer," I did work at the NSA many years ago.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #15)


Response to sadalien (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:26 AM

17. No, actually, the technology was not as you describe.

In fact, the beginnings of communications monitoring were already well established. You have demonstrated your lack of accurate information in that statement.

I have no responsibility to show proof of my employment to you. Nor do I care whether or not you believe me. Trust me, your belief is irrelevant to me.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #17)


Response to sadalien (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:57 AM

22. Because you posted them on DU, where I respond to

whatever posts I wish. Simple, huh?

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Response to sadalien (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:24 PM

41. Someone who HAD experience in this field trumps someone who never did.

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Response to randome (Reply #41)


Response to MineralMan (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:10 AM

11. I thought they hover higher up...

where you'd be unlikely to notice them?

I'm not sure about this technicality--since I don't know nuthin bout drones--but I feel very uncomfortable about this type of surveillance domestically, especially since there are no controls on it.

Of course we are surveilled in other ways. If we are concerned about one, we should be concerned about all.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:17 AM

13. I live in a large city.

The police use manned helicopters here quite frequently. Sometimes one flies over my house. In every case, that helicopter is being used to try to find someone who has committed a violent felony. It's dangerous for those flying the chopper and for those under their flight path.

My point is that even the little drones are very expensive to operate. They're not going to be flying over your yard all the time, or even frequently. They will, however, be used in similar ways that police helicopters are used. That will probably include monitoring of demonstrations, too, I'm sure. Even back in the 60s, when I was involved in street activism, helicopters were over most of the large demonstrations I participated in. Those and hundreds of cops and other authorities. We were not surprised by that, nor did it inhibit our activism.

There are cameras everywhere, already. I even have a neighbor who has one on a corner of his house. I think he's a moron, but there it is, and who knows? He may get photos of someone burglarizing my house some day.

I think we have very little to worry about with these small drones that cities will start deploying. They're too expensive to use to monitor people who are going about their activities. But, they may be very useful when some child is missing or there's a violent criminal in an area trying to get away from the cops. They'll help a lot in those cases, and will work better than big manned helicopters.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:20 AM

14. Except for one thing

the process for deploying them is apparently not transparent. Unregulated spying is not good for anybody--too much potential for abuse.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:06 AM

7. I sure wouldn't be making videos of myself with a Bushmaster talking about overthrowing the govt.

Bet some of the nuts who did that are regretting that smooth move.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:10 AM

10. The calls are coming from inside the house!!11!

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:37 AM

38. What's even worse, is that all of those calls are from







...'Jenny' from cardmember services.




THE HORROR.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:26 AM

18. No black helicopters, just drones. nt

 

nt

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:35 AM

20. I have a Second Amendment solution to a drone parked over my house, disturbing the peace

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:38 AM

21. Now That, Sir, Would Be Sure To End Well For You...

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:58 AM

23. Right. I'm sure you'd use it, too.

Not.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:04 AM

25. My reply was as serious as the OP

 

i.e. Not.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:08 AM

26. Of course. The OP's content, on the other hand, had that certain

aroma to it that smelled like the area under a bridge near my home. The smell is familiar, somehow.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:08 AM

27. I find that hyperbole is often a good way to respond to such things

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:12 AM

30. Trouble with hyperbole is that it assumes that

people know who the poster is and what his or her actual views are. That's not always a valid assumption, though. As much as I'm on DU, I always find it difficult to know someone's position from day to day. That's why I respond to posts as they stand, rather than trying to figure out whether they're satirical or sarcastic.

Now, I do post a satirical OP from time to time, but I always include ample clues to its nature. Even so, some folks invariably think that my news stories from www.newsyoushouldntbelieve.com are real. Go figure.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:03 AM

24. There is no need to use drones to monitor your cell phone

The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) is a United States wiretapping law passed in 1994, during the presidency of Bill Clinton (Pub. L. No. 103-414, 108 Stat. 4279, codified at 47 USC 1001-1010).

CALEA's purpose is to enhance the ability of law enforcement and intelligence agencies to conduct electronic surveillance by requiring that telecommunications carriers and manufacturers of telecommunications equipment modify and design their equipment, facilities, and services to ensure that they have built-in surveillance capabilities, allowing federal agencies to monitor all telephone, broadband internet, and VoIP traffic in real-time.

The original reason for adopting CALEA was the Federal Bureau of Investigation's worry that increasing use of digital telephone exchange switches would make tapping phones at the phone company's central office harder and slower to execute, or in some cases impossible. Since the original requirement to add CALEA-compliant interfaces required phone companies to modify or replace hardware and software in their systems, U.S. Congress included funding for a limited time period to cover such network upgrades. CALEA was passed into law on October 25, 1994 and came into force on January 1, 1995.

In the years since CALEA was passed it has been greatly expanded to include all VoIP and broadband internet traffic. From 2004 to 2007 there was a 62 percent growth in the number of wiretaps performed under CALEA -- and more than 3,000 percent growth in interception of internet data such as email.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act

The capability is built into the network itself.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:10 AM

28. This line of reasoning is reminscent of the Fundie view on gay marriage

 

It usually goes something like this: "Well, if we let men marry men, what's next, men marrying frogs? Women marrying women?"


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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:11 AM

29. 'Pro drone' sounds a little like 'pro life'.

Most of us would rather drones not be used at all. Most of us would rather war not be waged at all.

I'm sure, as you said, all it would take is an anonymous phone call to get the police to spring into action. Not a valid scenario, IMO.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:18 AM

31. Cant most of that be done from a car?

Im pretty sure any of that could happen without the use of drones. Not really much different IMHO.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:23 AM

33. You don't understand. Drones are evil.

Because, you know, they fly and stuff.

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Response to randome (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:25 AM

34. ok. Thats what I thought.

its those damned new-fangled flying machines!

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:21 AM

32. Yes - not that it's likely or feasible, but yes.

I have not the slightest worry of being recorded or monitored, by either governmental or commercial entities (the paranoia about drones is about as overdone as the paranoia over Amazon/Google/credit card tracking for 99.999% of the population). I can't imagine why the Feds would waste those resources doing so, but they have my blessing. Only thing that would worry me is if they were hovering low enough to be noise polluting, but I am sure that's even more unlikely.

I do not say this because I am paranoid about my risk from terrorism or violent crime (fractionally above zero, and not much more than that respectively) or because I am particularly keen on authoritarianism, but because such passive means of monitoring do not intrude on my senses or impede my actions. I would care about, for example, being closely shadowed by agents in person (THAT's why I never ran for POTUS ) not because I fear what they would find, but because they would be an active intrusion. Couldn't give a toss about eye-in-the-sky crap or e-surveillance. If Agent Mike wants to bore himself silly reading my emails and listening in on my calls, I hereby invite him to send me his contact details so I can copy him on all communications voluntarily and save the Feds some $$ on the spy gear. Why should I care?

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:29 AM

35. I am not fine with this shit at all..............

 

And I may make my own, real loud with cameras & maybe a 2 stroke weed wacker engine. Yup a 2 stroke running lots of oil & smoking like, like a heavy smoker & fly it over and in front of windows of elected types that think this is helpful.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:32 AM

37. Are people unjustly targeted and even killed by law enforcement based on bad intel in America?

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Response to Gold Metal Flake (Reply #37)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:39 AM

39. People are also struck by lightning in America

I'm not scared of thunderstorms because of that.

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Response to sadalien (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:14 PM

40. Now if I could only get them out from under my bed!!

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