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Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:09 AM

Penelope Soto, my hero: Florida teen flipping the finger at abusive judge

Last edited Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:50 AM - Edit history (1)

as extensively discussed in this thread has now had a second hearing before another judge who set her bond at $5,000 and agreed to drop the drug case against her (possession of a few Xanax pills) if she successfully completes a drug program:




To my great surprise (well, in some cases) 9 out of ten posters celebrated and agreed with the abusive judge who in the first bail hearing had doubled the amount requested by the prosecution to $10,000 on a whim and for no good reason at all, ensuring that she would stay in jail for a while, I suppose.

She was obviously shocked and upset over this and when she was walking out of the room, she flipped the bird and said quietly "fuck you". Up to this point she had been nice and friendly, going out of her way to be courteous, honest and open - even though she is being held in jail, made to wear a ridiculous jump suit and even more ridiculous double sized slippers, and likely didn't get all that much sleep the night before judging by the way she looks and acts. Watch the video:



The judge OTOH is arrogant and obnoxious from the start. When she doesn't quite get what she is supposed to say about the "value" of her jewelry and nervously laughs, trying to put a friendly face on her confusion, he reminds her that "you are not in a nightclub" - the only place, perhaps, he imagines where a woman is supposed to be nice and charming. She politely apologizes for laughing, says her jewellery is worth "a lot of money". Rudely he inquires "like what". Can a question get any more unspecific? But she does come up with an appropriate comparison, taking the question literally: "like Rick Ross". Now the judge is completely lost. "Uh?" he mumbles - of course he has not the faintest idea who Rick Ross might be - and adds another impertinent question, whether she is on drugs?

At this point, a PD tries to intervene and offers to be appointed to "make it easier" for the court. But the judge cannot get over himself. "I'm not going to appoint you, she says she has a substantial amount of jewelry!" Snark, snark, snicker, snicker. In the end, he dismisses her, being cutesy, with "bye bye", waving his hand, only to call her back and deliberately upset her after she - in a very pleasant way - wishes him "Adios".

What the hell is going on there? Who is this guy?

Well, apparently he made the news before.

In Aug. 1998, the Miami Herald reported:

State Rep. Jorge Rodriguez-Chomat , R-West Dade, is betting voters will overlook his reputation for having a short fuse and a sharp tongue and return him to Tallahassee for a third term representing District 114.

In February when Florida International University professor Dario Moreno described Miami on national television as "almost the definition of a Third World Banana Republic," Rodriguez-Chomat retaliated by threatening FIU President Mitch Maidique to hurt the university when funding issues came up in Tallahassee if Maidique didn't take a stand against Moreno. Maidique refused and Rodriguez-Chomat was forced to apologize and retract his statement."

In a 2010 Dade County Bar Association judicial poll, Rodriguez-Chomat "was rated unqualified by more than 46 percent of respondents," according to Jose Pagliery, then a Daily Business Review staff writer.

http://randompixels.blogspot.de/


TALLAHASSEE — A debate over school vouchers turned into a schoolyard brawl on Thursday as two Miami Republicans tangled on the House floor before being separated by a dozen legislators.

Reps. Jorge Rodriguez-Chomat and Carlos Valdes angrily grabbed each other by the jacket lapels and appeared ready to throw punches during the brief blow-up, which followed harsh words between the pair.

``This was not really the Thrilla in Manila,'' said House Republican leader Jim King Jr. of Jacksonville. ``But there's obviously a lot of tension out there and people are getting on edge.''

The Republican rumble took place in full view of House Speaker Daniel Webster, R-Orlando, and state public TV cameras. It was the first floor fight since 1992, when two smaller-scale eruptions marred the House.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1998-04-10/news/9804090459_1_valdes-desk-jorge-rodriguez-chomat-vouchers


Picture (note the expensive looking bling on his right hand)

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:16 AM

1. You can do better for heroes

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:25 AM

4. She reminds me of myself when I was 18

full of life and still able to feel outrage over old farts who abuse their position of authority.

https://twitter.com/FreePenelope

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Response to reorg (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:38 AM

22. The judge was old and crotchety

And took it too far. Bit she gave him the rope he hung her with.

Hopefully he shortens her contempt sentence.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:55 AM

32. I support the 30 day "Time Out" approach.

There still remains rules in society....

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:57 AM

34. True

I'm of two minds about it but its justifiable at least

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:03 AM

68. 30 days is excessive for the finger

but if you like Singapore's approach...

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #68)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:06 AM

72. Nonsense

I didn't read anything about her being caned. Next traffic ticket you get make your appearance and flip the judge off and say "fuck you" and see if that judge thinks 30 days is too much.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #68)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:42 AM

94. perhaps excessive for the finger

but not excessive for contempt of court.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #68)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:59 AM

128. I dunno, man.

You say fuck you to a judge in court, 30-days is a gift.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #68)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:12 AM

286. I agree with you, CreekDog

Some judges abuse their power and love to throw out contempt charges when they are the comtemptible ones.

This girl was not charged with beating, bullying or harming any one. Jail does not cure or ameliorate drug use and should be reserved for violent criminals. She was an addled 18 year old and he IS a mean old man, likely a repuke.

Why did he call her back in the first place? Offended by her adios... what an ass.

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Response to Carolina (Reply #286)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:13 AM

299. He is a Repuke.

Read the OP more carefully, especially the quoted parts.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:13 AM

78. Yeah, old people suck

You hit the nail on the head. Not only was he merely crotchety bit he was "old and crotchety".

How dare that fucker be old.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #78)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:44 AM

140. Been a lot of "old-bashing" lately

See some of the Beyonce threads.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #140)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:02 PM

180. Some of the old-bashers had better hope they live long enough to be called old. n/t

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #78)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:49 PM

328. Crotchety people rule actually

Old is value neutral

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Response to reorg (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:52 AM

301. Don't underestimate the dangers of Xanax...

Three years ago my 28-year-old daughter died of an overdose of Xanax...the only thing found in her system. Was the judge an overbearing ass? Yep. But perhaps 30 days in jail will teach the young lady that there are better and safer ways to have fun...or deal with life.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #301)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:17 PM

308. I'm so sorry to hear that. (nt)

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Response to Nine (Reply #308)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:25 PM

309. You're very kind.

I posted it so people would understand it is not an aspirin she was caught with, but a potential killer if abused.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #301)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:27 PM

316. I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter.

I agree about the 30 days. If there is a chance, even a slight chance, that this will help get her straight - it could save her life. These drugs are a controlled substance for a reason. It's bad enough that some people die from these when they were legally acquired under a doctor's care, but even more lethal when not.

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Response to OwnedByCats (Reply #316)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:35 PM

317. Thank you for your kindness.

Xanax was prescribed for my daughter, but she didn't take it as directed.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #317)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:45 PM

318. Happy Valentine's Day :)

Hope you like it.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #318)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:53 PM

319. You are too sweet!

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #317)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:21 PM

325. You're very welcome

I used to have an issue with pain meds that were prescribed to me by my doctor. I did start off taking them for chronic pain, but eventually it also became a stress reliever, anti-depressant and sleep aid. It was one mother of a crutch I used. This went on for 10 years and my doctor had the patience of a saint. Because I only increased my doses slightly every couple of months to keep up with the pain, he continued to prescribe them. Although it took me awhile, I was able to see I had a problem before it spun out of control and killed me. Been off them for about 5 years now. Since then I have a couple of times used them for extreme pain only, for just a day or two and I'm ok with that. As long as I stay away from any type of regular use, I'm ok.

I'm really sorry your daughter succumbed. It happens all too frequently.

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Response to OwnedByCats (Reply #325)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:37 PM

327. She was bipolar...

when she was younger and living at home we could make her take her meds. Once she graduated from college, went to work full-time and bought a townhouse, there was not much we could do. She stopped taking her meds but suffered from panic attacks so a different doctor prescribed the Xanax, which worked fine when taken as prescribed....But like most people with bipolar disorder, she liked being manic...so she wouldn't take the Xanax daily. Her life was spiraling out of control when she died.... Next Friday would be her 32nd birthday.

I am so happy you were able to grab hold of that addiction and strangle it.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #327)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:16 AM

331. Oh gosh

I'm sorry, it must have been awful for you. People with bipolar can be a real handful, the ones that I've known would take their meds and things would be ok for the most part but then decide they didn't need them anymore. Then getting them back on the meds is always a battle, especially if you aren't living in the same house. So I guess she's been gone for almost 4 years now? Do you have any other children or was she your only?

I kicked my habit but the reasons I took them have never been helped so sometimes I still struggle without them. I get chronic headaches and unless you have some condition or illness that can be easily found through tests, it's tricky to get to the bottom of why they occur. No one seems to know why I get them, not even a neurologist that specializes in headaches could get to the bottom of it. I suffer from depression but thankfully not the manic kind. I have tried several SSRI's but they do not really work for me. Sadly the only thing that made me feel happy were the pain meds. That lead my doctor to suspect I have an endorphin deficiency but treatment for that is either controversial at best, or simply not available to me.

Anyway I just wanted to again offer my condolences. I hope for her birthday that you can remember the good times. My best wishes for Friday.

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Response to OwnedByCats (Reply #331)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 08:30 AM

332. Again,

you are very kind.

It was 3 years ago in Dec.

I have another daughter and a son.

Have you tried seeing a pain management specialist? Pain can really make one's life a misery. I am so sorry you have to carry that burden.

I hold the good memories close and they far out number the bad.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #332)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:31 AM

333. I have not

seen a pain specialist, mainly because when it comes to these phantom headaches which seem to have no obvious cause, a pain specialist is unlikely to want to deal with me - at least that's the impression I've been given. It's easy to fake a headache if you happen to be a drug seeker, even though that would not be my intent at all. However, short of giving me what I know works, probably not much they can do. Many good doctors are afraid to prescribe pain meds now what with the DEA breathing down their necks and quite frankly, I can't blame them for being wary. I have heard of some cases where the doctors weren't over prescribing and had never lost a patient due to overdose - and they still got in trouble. I wouldn't want to gamble with my medical license and freedom either if I was in their shoes.


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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:26 AM

5. Quite true

She did not help her case at all by flipping the bird and mouthing off. Up to that point, she was in the right and the judge was on his way to being recused from the case for being arbitrary and capricious.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:28 AM

10. has it occurred to you that it was not her intention

to "help her case"?

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Response to reorg (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:48 AM

60. No, actually, it hadn't occured to me that she might be deliberately trying to hurt it

Maybe she was on drugs after all?

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #60)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:05 AM

70. or maybe in some situations

people, especially young people who have not yet developed into automatons, just have a natural reaction and show it, regardless of whether they have to "pay" for it later?

I believe that's one of the reasons most of the participants in demonstrations are young. They are not that afraid of the consequences as the more obedient, older types are. They will risk going to prison for taking a stand. I know, I know, have already been told here that such a thing is just "stupid".

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Response to reorg (Reply #70)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:34 AM

91. LOL! Your youth worship is hilarious

Meet the automatons you dismiss so easily.



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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #91)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:30 AM

273. I detect two or three persons in that picture

who may be approximately the same age as I am, but most are a lot younger, those in the background appear to be what I consider young people.

No, I didn't say that every older person is an automaton or unwilling to speak his or her mind. Sometimes that willingness even increases with advancing age. My father was an activist until his late eighties. But what is trumpeted here as wisdom and sense of reality, in stark contrast to the supposed "stupidity" of the 18-year-old Penelope, is often just cowardice that DOES increase in most people as they "adapt" and grow older. Understandable, yes, but let's not totally dismiss the fresh reactions of those who encounter false authority for the first time in places where they do not expect and/or rightfully don't respect it.

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Response to reorg (Reply #273)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:49 AM

276. That's why those kids are wearing ponchos labeled "Granny Peace Brigade." nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #276)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:59 AM

278. the granny in the middle could be my daughter

and I applaud them for supporting the protests of their kids and grandchildren.

I'm sure the latter won't take no shit from no judge either.

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Response to reorg (Reply #278)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:09 AM

281. Sure; whatever you say. nt

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Response to reorg (Reply #273)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:58 AM

296. You seem to have a well developed ability to classify and reduce people to cartoonish stereotypes

Good luck with that.

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Response to reorg (Reply #70)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:23 AM

111. She wasn't "taking a stand"....she doesnt seem smart enough to "take a stand"

 

I think she learned her lesson though.

Was her mother in court? I couldn't hear her answer.

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Response to reorg (Reply #70)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:48 AM

143. In other words, young people who want to be treated like adults...

"especially young people who have not yet developed into automatons, just have a natural reaction and show it, regardless of whether they have to "pay" for it later?"

In other words, young people who want to be treated like adults, but not held to the same standards as adults...

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:08 AM

73. No

"arbitrary and capricious" is answering the question, "what is your jewelry worth" with "Rick Ross" while giggling uncontrollably is "arbitrary and capricious".

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Response to pipoman (Reply #73)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:10 AM

97. That one cost her $5K,

Saying adios, caused the judge to double it?

That's arbitrary and capricious.


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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #97)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:12 AM

98. Insolence caused the judge to double it.

Insolence is not tolerated in any court in the land.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #98)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:15 AM

101. Saying adios is insolence?

Since when?

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #101)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:18 AM

106. Since it added to her already insolent behavior..

Try acting like that in court sometime in front of your favorite liberal judge and see where it gets you.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #106)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:26 AM

116. I'll go with the 2nd judge, who already reversed that decision.

Showing that the 1'st judge's decision was arbitrary and capricious.

Which was my point to begin with. If she had stopped there, she would've walked when the case was presented to the 2nd judge. As it is, she is now free of the drug charges but held on the criminal contempt charges.


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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #116)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:47 AM

124. Did you watch the videos?

Did you notice any difference in how the defendant acted in the second hearing? No, had she made her second appearance with the same attitude and insolence as her first, the second judge would have probably given her more to giggle about. Had she been a repeat offender, she wouldn't have received the second chance.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #124)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:49 PM

159. I appreciate what you are saying, but I do not see a lawyer there to coach or assist her.

Unfortunately it has been my personal experience that when you go before a judge in such matters, there is someone there to assist you to speak to the judge.

This is all done on video and it is hard to appreciate the seriousness of what is befalling you by just looking into a camera.

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Response to Sivafae (Reply #159)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:17 PM

239. Interesting point

I wasn't aware of this practice but it certainly explains the two camera split view.

What a surreal experience it must be for a young person caught up in court proceedings for the first time, having to talk through a little video monitor to a strange old person in a black robe. After being locked up in a cell, deprived of your personal belongings, dressed up like a clown and all that.

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Response to reorg (Reply #239)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:29 AM

249. All that could be believable

if, say, she lived in a basement with no TV until the day before she was arrested..LOL, "strange old person in a black robe", FFS, it's an 18 year old..LOL

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Response to reorg (Reply #239)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:06 PM

320. It's not supposed to be

a fun experience. She broke the law ... everyone else there has to talk through a little video monitor to a judge, spend time in a locked cell and be dressed like a "clown" (although last I checked, clowns wear many colors, not just orange). The girl behind her had to wear that ghastly outfit too. Everyone who ends up in jail has to go through the same experience. It's not supposed to be pleasant, it should act as a deterrent.

And that "strange old person in a black robe" was the JUDGE who was deciding her bail and possible need for a PD. Not a good idea to be pissing that person off. Your obvious problem with old people is also noted.


I've never been before a judge, but even when I was eighteen I would never have conducted myself that way. As a matter of fact, I would have been too scared to act like she did. She didn't seem to take it seriously until the judge gave her something to take seriously and then she didn't like it, did she? Perfect of example of someone who needs "tough love". She probably never got that at home.

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Response to Sivafae (Reply #159)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:25 AM

248. I suspect her appointed lawyer was in the courtroom

or, as stupid as she was acting, she may have declined counsel.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #124)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:07 PM

184. I actually did watch the videos

To be clear, the girl acted like a fool. I started out by saying she did not help her own case.

In all that we are in violent agreement.

But she's not the product of a law school, nor does she sit in judgment of anyone. The judge stepped over the line when he reacted to the "adios" by doubling her bail. That was an unwarranted overreaction. He acted like a petulant child unworthy of sitting on the bench.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #184)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:23 PM

214. I don't think I was clear...

What I was trying to get at was that this person was not PHYSICALLY in front of a judge, or so it seems by what I am watching. If I am wrong, please let me know. I think just talking into a camera isn't the same as actually being in a courtroom.

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Response to Sivafae (Reply #214)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:10 PM

216. I'm not sure I can draw a conclusion either way based on the video. However...

Her physical presence is required by law; trial in absentia is specifcally prohibited under the constitution.

In 1884, the United States Supreme Court held that

the legislature has deemed it essential to the protection of one whose life or liberty is involved in a prosecution for felony, that he shall be personally present at the trial, that is, at every stage of the trial when his substantial rights may be affected by the proceedings against him. If he be deprived of his life or liberty without being so present, such deprivation would be without that due process of law required by the Constitution. Hopt v. Utah 110 US 574, 28 L Ed 262, 4 S Ct 202 (1884).

A similar holding was announced by the Arizona Supreme Court in 2004 (based on Arizona Rules of Criminal Procedure):

A voluntary waiver of the right to be present requires true freedom of choice. A trial court may infer that a defendant's absence from trial is voluntary and constitutes a waiver if a defendant had personal knowledge of the time of the proceeding, the right to be present, and had received a warning that the proceeding would take place in their absence if they failed to appear. The courts indulge every reasonable presumption against the waiver of fundamental constitutional rights. State v. Whitley, 85 P.3d 116 (2004)

Although United States Congress codified this right by approving Rule 43 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure in 1946 and amended the Rule in 1973, the right is not absolute.

Rule 43 provides that a defendant shall be present

at the arraignment,
at the time of the plea,
at every stage of the trial including the impaneling of the jury and the return of the verdict and
at the imposition of sentence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_absentia

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #216)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:58 PM

232. But I know for a fact that prisoners

are in front of judges by computer screen and mic every single day. They are taken to a room with a table and a PC, their attorney is with them and a guard as well and the hearing proceeds.

Is there a difference here? I'm no attorney, but I have worked with prisoners and their attorneys and this is the procedure I have seen. Some jails have 2 or 3 days a week that are designated for seeing the judge... which means from a PC screen. Just wondering.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #232)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:02 PM

235. If that's the case, there's an opportunity for a class action lawsuit. nt

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #235)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:11 PM

238. Wow..

Utah gets away with a lot then. Hundreds of times a day I would guess.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #235)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:56 AM

277. It is a very common practice all over the country--has been for years, now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arraignment#Video_arraignment

Saves money, reduces manpower, eliminates escapes and other courtroom shenanigans, eliminates the need to provide transport to the courthouse from the jail.

Video arraignment is the act of conducting the arraignment process using some form of videoconferencing technology. Use of Video Arraignment system allows the courts to conduct the requisite arraignment process without the need to transport the person who has been formally accused (offender) to the courtroom by using an audio-visual link between the location where the offender is being held and the courtroom.

Use of the video arraignment process addresses the problems associated with having to transport offenders. The transportation of offenders requires time, puts additional demands on the public safety organizations to provide for the safety of the public, court personnel and for the security of the offender population. It also addresses the rising costs of transportation.

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Response to MADem (Reply #277)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:02 AM

297. We could save even more money and manpower by doing away with the trial

Going straight to incarceration.

Judges are expensive.

Just think of all the money we could save.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #297)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:44 AM

305. Well, that's just not helpful, nor does it make sense.

But do go on with your bad self.

The arraignment process is simply a first step--it's not a trial, it's the process that sets the date for the trial. If you are looking at the judge, and the judge is looking at you, I don't see a thing wrong with doing the process by video. Neither do most sentient persons. A handcuffed van ride to a courthouse and a frog-march into a courtroom isn't going to make "justice" any "better."

It makes the process much safer for defendants who may well be innocent but who are hated by the public (accused child molesters and murderers, for example) and it makes it safer for courtroom personnel if you have some asshole in there who is determined to escape, and is intent upon stealing a weapon from a bailiff to shoot up the place.

There is no "downside" to this process. We don't use buggy whips any more, either.

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Response to MADem (Reply #305)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:16 PM

307. Yes let's do away with pesky old things like the constitution

It's only getting in the way of efficiency.

If it becomes too burdensome, we can just push it aside.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #307)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:34 PM

311. Yes, because arraignments are "against the Constitution."

You have one of those real nice days, now....

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Response to pipoman (Reply #98)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:57 PM

161. Ooooh, insolence.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:19 AM

109. Exactly...that's a pretty low bar for someone to look up to...nt

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:21 AM

2. So, you don't want contempt of court to be punishable?

There's a reason a judge refers to himself as "this court" while seated, and that's exactly what she was flipping off.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:27 AM

7. it's all about the context

which you all completely ignore.

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Response to reorg (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:31 AM

14. Which is what?

 

Address his point... At what time is it ok to do that?

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Response to Coyote_Tan (Reply #14)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:43 AM

26. I already addressed it

read the OP. She fully cooperated to the best of her ability to understand what was going on. Only when the judge decided to deliberately upset her (watch his ugly face while he smirks and sniggers calling her back), she is shocked and outraged. Fully justified to make her feelings known. If the "court" acts like a jackass, they deserve no respect.

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Response to reorg (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:10 AM

37. that little twit is the smirking, sniggering jerk.

I hope she learned something- like you can't just be an asshole anywhere anytime you feel like it.

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Response to cali (Reply #37)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:27 AM

47. Lol, hang her! what a joke! n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #47)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:11 AM

75. right. that's just what I said, disingenuous genious.

lame. can't you do better?

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Response to Logical (Reply #47)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:38 PM

167. As opposed to sending her home in a limousine with a bag of money...

As opposed to sending her home in a limousine with a bag of money. Six of one, half a dozen of the other; both examples extremes, and both examples idiotic...

However, I've little doubt that you of course, will attempt to rationalize an idiotic statement.

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Response to cali (Reply #37)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:06 AM

71. 30 days in jail? what do you hope she learned? how to get more drugs?

how to get harder stuff?

1 or 2 days would have scared her, maybe.

30 days is just the judge settling a score.

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Response to reorg (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:21 AM

43. So I guess you'd be more sympathetic to the judge if he was handsome?

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Response to onenote (Reply #43)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:38 AM

54. I suspect he would act in a different way if he were

The girl is obviously quite pretty, perhaps he takes it as a personal offense when she tries to be charming and friendly.

Given that he has no chance in hell to elicit even the faintest of smiles on her face once he is not in a position to exert power over her. Or so he may well believe. Could be an interesting topic for him to discuss with a psychoanalyst, perhaps.

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Response to reorg (Reply #54)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:40 PM

168. Interesting long-distance diagnoses... much like "Doctor" Frist did.

Interesting long-distance diagnoses... much like "Doctor" Frist did.

Please proceed...

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Response to reorg (Reply #54)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:42 PM

170. OMG

It just gets better. You do make me laugh at least

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Response to reorg (Reply #54)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:02 PM

181. Oh. this reply says it all...

You think she's hot (not to mention young) so of course we should take her side against the (gasp) old and ugly judge.

Sorry, while I agree that 30 days was too much, the woman acted like a jerk on drugs.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #181)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:19 AM

247. Not really

but 68 is too old to be a judge, IMO. Where I live, judges retire when they reach retirement age, and I believe that is a good thing, even for themselves.

In addition, such an old fart - not necessarily but apparently in this case - is totally out of whack with what is going on in his field of work. Doesn't know what "bars" means, as in Xanax bars but deals with drug offenders daily? Come on, time to go home and watch reruns of "I dream of Jeannie".

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Response to reorg (Reply #54)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:03 PM

236. Let me buy you a clue

If this was a handsome judge and an ugly defendant, or a handsome judge and a pretty defendant, or a male judge and a male defendant, a female judge and a female defendant, white/white, black/white; white/black; black/black and any other combination you want: if you say fuck you to a judge you serve time. Every time.

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Response to onenote (Reply #236)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:13 AM

245. My point was

Last edited Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:10 AM - Edit history (1)

that the situation may not have developed if there had not been this wide generational, cultural and possibly also personal attractivity gap.

I have been before two very different judges - one relatively young and apparently liberal minded, the other very similar to the one we are talking about: an old reactionary, self-delusional and arrogant. And yes, it makes a lot of difference. Not just in terms of the process, but also regarding the outcome.

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Response to reorg (Reply #245)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:52 AM

283. apparently

You mus never have met old liberals or young conservatives. There are plenty of young conservatives who would have hung that girl, and many old liberals who would have defended her.

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Response to onenote (Reply #43)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:43 PM

243. And young.

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Response to reorg (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:50 AM

61. No, No she didn't at all..

what were you watching? She didn't answer the questions posed by the court.."Rick Ross" is not an answer to the value of her jewelry, it is a smart assed response. The giggled throughout the hearing...If I'm the judge I'm going to wipe the giggling off her stupid face and so would every judge in every court room I've been in (many, many). She is only justified in answering questions posed by the court and conducting herself in an adult and serious manner. She completely deserved what she got. Notice how her demeanor changed before the second judge? No, she is not "Fully justified to make her feelings known.", the only thing she is justified to do in court is answer the questions posed and conduct herself in a manner suitable for the gravity of the situation. No, she learned a valuable lesson about decorum in a court setting. She went in a stupid, snarky, kid and came out enlightened.

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Response to reorg (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:38 PM

166. Fully cooperated?

I don't call giving the smart ass answer about the worth of her jewelry cooperating. She was giggling most of the way through, like she was not taking any of it seriously at all. It was like it was all a big joke to her. If I had been in her shoes, laughing would be my last reaction because frankly there is nothing funny about getting arrested.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe he's trying to do the girl a favor? She's already at such a young age getting arrested for script drug possession, she doesn't seem to fully grasp the trouble she's in - it's called tough love.

Flipping him off further displays how she does not understand how serious this was - but judging from the second video, she seems to have learned her lesson.

Anyone, I mean ANYONE, who flips off a judge in a court of law is going to be charged with contempt of court and see county jail time. She is no different.

I don't get the outrage




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Response to OwnedByCats (Reply #166)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:00 PM

234. He had her at a disadvantage. He knew it, or ought to have known.

The Public Defender offered to step in, but the judge cut him off; stating that she had substantial wealth in all that jewelry...

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. The point is, the judge ought to have appointed a public defender or, if the defendant did not qualify because she had "too much wealth", he should have given her the opportunity to GET A FUCKING LAWYER to represent her, instead of taking advantage of the girl's profound ignorance of process and rules.

He was an asshole.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #234)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:21 AM

254. No, she had herself

at a disadvantage for breaking the law in the first place. Then she had herself at a disadvantage by behaving like a jerk, acting like it was all a big joke. I don't care if the judge was an asshole, YOU NEVER DISRESPECT THE JUDGE. You do not piss off the person who is going to be deciding your bail, and you certainly don't FLIP OFF said judge when you don't like his decision. That judge will most likely give you a punishment you won't like. It is a simple concept. When you fuck up in life, you own up and take the consequences. You don't keep digging your hole deeper.

Ignorance of the process and rules are no excuse, but I bet now she'll be thinking twice before she ever mouths off to a judge again. Lesson learned the hard way.

That all being said, I do wish her luck for the future. I sincerely hope she gets her life straight. I'm hoping that 30 days in jail will make her not want to go back there.

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Response to OwnedByCats (Reply #254)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:25 AM

289. You are missing the point COMPLETELY

You must be under the mistaken impression that only one person can be in the wrong and that the other one must necessarily be right.

Not so.

Yes, she acted like an idiot.

But so did the judge.

I am not defending her actions.

But I'm not defending his actions either.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #289)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:17 PM

315. Oh for goodness sake ....

I'm not missing the point at all. We must not be watching the same video. That judge was fine until she started goofing off and judges tend to not appreciate that at all. You look at the second judge and think "oh see, he was nice". You know why??? Because she wasn't acting like an asshole with him! I'm very sure had she acted the same way, he would not have appreciated it and you probably wouldn't have agreed with his decision either. On the same token, the first judge probably would have been completely fine with her had she presented herself properly! It's true I don't know this for a fact, and seeing as how we can't go back in time and change her behavior, NEITHER DO YOU.


What he gave her as bail was still less than the standard $20,000 that many people busted with illegal possession of a controlled substance could get, and 30 days in county jail for flipping off a judge and saying "fuck you" at the same time is also pretty standard for direct contempt of court. The outrage and hero worship over this just boggles my mind, quite frankly. Do you not see that the majority of people in this thread think you're nuts?? Find a better a role model.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? She was in possession of a controlled substance, got arrested, she fucked about with the judge and thought she'd be clever and flip him off because she didn't like his decision. Well you know what? If you're going to piss off a judge, expect JAIL TIME. How else can we possibly keep order in the court if there are no punishments for disrupting the process? We'd never get anything done with all the chaos that would occur. MOST people are smart enough to avoid that and I think she will in future.

She's got a real chance to clean this up and become a success in whatever she wants to do.
She just has to take it. End of story.

Time to move on.







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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:05 AM

69. not 30 days for the finger

no. if the judge makes judgements that badly and out of proportion, he shouldn't be sentencing anybody.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:14 AM

100. No, she was flipping off a hateful asshole. People like him are an embarrassment to the court. nt

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #100)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:16 AM

103. For raising her bail?

That's totally within a judge's discretion.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #103)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:18 AM

108. I don't like when people use positions of power to talk down to people and expect respect in return.

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #108)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:53 AM

125. See, here's the deal...

The judge is not her BFF.

He's not her grandma.

He's not her peer in any way.

Looking at his demeanor, I would say he probably, inwardly, cares more about what happens to her than she does.

I didn't find him overly harsh.

Judges aren't there to offer kleenex, cookies, and hot cocoa to the people who appear before them.

Hopefully, what happened to her will keep her from becoming another statistic.

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #125)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:24 PM

198. I'm not sure what some of these "the judge was a harsh prick" posters want or expect.

Should he have LOWERED her bail in response to her disrespect?

You giggle in my court, treat the proceedings like a big joke, play with your hair, give evasive non-answers, name rap artists, and make ethnic jokes or jibes, look stoned to the gills, and I should...let it go? Pretend I didn't see it? Let you go on your way?

What would that teach you?

It would teach you that stupid behavior gets rewarded.

And then you'll do it again the next time.


I agree with you. The judge was doing her a favor by trying to help her see that there are consequences to our actions.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #198)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:22 PM

218. Some of these posters just hate judges

They don't want anyone to have any sort of power or control over anyone else, even in our justice system.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #100)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:56 PM

172. Ok

You don't EVER flip a judge off in court unless you want jail time ... period. I don't care how hateful and how much of an asshole the judge might be. You don't do it.

You know when I was a teen, I wanted to flip off my parents on numerous occasions, because I thought at the time that they were being assholes, but I didn't. It's a good thing because I probably wouldn't have seen the light of day for at least a couple weeks, if not a couple months. I knew when it was not appropriate. Flipping off a judge is never appropriate.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:43 AM

139. The contempt was begun by the judge, not the girl.

 

There's nothing inflammatory about saying "Adios" that I'm aware of. It wasn't until he upped her bail that she voiced a sincere and understandable level of contempt to the JUDGE, not the court.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #139)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:13 PM

146. I disagree; the contempt started with the girl treating court like a joke.

That smartass comment about her jewelry was part of it, as well.

If you can't hear the snideness and contempt in her 'adios' to the judge, I can't help you.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #139)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:09 PM

237. No, nooo

The judge IS the court. The court IS the judge. You say something to him/her you are talking to the court of the county, state whatever. No difference.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #139)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:21 AM

288. Exactly

It was all over until he called her back and upped her bail because she said adios?! Totally out of proportion and abusive.

I think she was drug-addled rather than insolent. And yes, some judges are full of themselves. They are kings in their little fiefdom of the courtroom and sometimes it goes to their heads. As I said upthread, this girl was not a violent criminal.

Thirty days for the finger is absurd.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:23 AM

3. She's like a modern-day Rosa Parks.

I expect that one day a statue of her will be erected.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:33 AM

16. No, more like Nathan Hale

Give me Xanax or give me 30 days in jail.

I would think they drug test everybody when they are jailed, especially when one of the charges is possession of prescription drugs that aren't yours.

Yep, a real hero. Because it take a brave, drug addled moron to flip off a judge.

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Response to Peregrine (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:07 AM

35. Nathan Hale is "I regret that I only have one life to give (or lose) for my country"

Patrick Henry is "Give me liberty or give me death."

The circumstances were decidedly different, with Hale on the actual gallows (at least according to legend) and Henry just mouthing off in the Virginia legislature.

(Fixed it for you).

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Response to Peregrine (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:19 AM

41. +1

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:26 AM

6. wow. could you possibly set the bar for "hero" any lower?

she was a rude little twit. He was not abusive. She was not friendly. His questions about the value of her jewelry were appropriate. Her responses were not.

Whatever his past may be, that dimwit deserved her comeuppance by the court.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:27 AM

8. Unrec. Sorry that your hatred of authority clouds your judgment of what a hero is.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:27 AM

9. You're hero is a drug addict who had illegal drugs?

Talk about questionable morals. Not to mention her actions are contempt of court. I don't get this. Maybe a pot grower I can see admiration. But this is an addictive drug in the hands of a teenager illegal...what type of heroism is that?

Not to mention did you pay attention to her behaviour. She was giggling (completely inappropriate behaviour since illegal possession of drugs is no laughing matter), she didn't answer the question...shoot it looked like she didn't even understand the question about the cost of her jewelry every time they asked. She focused on her hair. Then she mocks the judge with an "adios" then she CURSES at him...didn't you hear him say "Did I hear you just say__________?" She confirms that later and then she flips him the bird.

Fuck that man...you need some to see a hero in that. Maybe the 30 days will sober her up to getting a clue.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:31 AM

12. so what if 18 year olds experiment with pills

I did the same and here I am, still alive and kicking 40 years later.

She stood up to an ugly old fart in a position of authority who was way out of line, which takes courage.

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Response to reorg (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:37 AM

20. If I had an 18 who experimented with drugs and is caught by me or authorities...

She will pay the price and do so in a respectful manner. Then maybe she'll have a clue. There is absolutely no justification of this girls actions. There was absolutely nothing abusive to stand up for. She was being a belligerent, spoiled little prick. Nothing in her actions was courageous! To believe otherwise is absurd.

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Response to reorg (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:40 AM

25. YOU are alive and kicking 40 years later

But not EVERYONE who has abused pills is.

"Give me Vicodin, or give me Meth!"

Oy!

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Response to FrodosPet (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:31 AM

118. Um, make that "Give me Librium or give me Meth!" - :) - n/t

 

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Response to reorg (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:44 AM

27. bzzzt. could you be any more wrong?

courage my ass. More like stupidity and being high.

I pulled something akin to what she did when I was in my early 20's. I was with my boyfriend driving in NH. We got stopped. They were being physical to him for no reason other than that he was black. He wasn't under the influence. He'd just played a gig. I objected and got very mouthy. We both got handcuffed and thrown in jail. As he said afterward, if I'd kept my mouth shut he would have handled it. He was probably right. We were lucky. Both of us were let out after we called our parents. His dad was a prof at Harvard Medical School and mine did business in NH and knew the Governor. We were actually released and apologized to- which never would have happened if we weren't from "nice" upper middle class families and our dads hadn't pulled strings.

At least I was reacting to genuine bigotry and abuse of power even if it was stupid.

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Response to cali (Reply #27)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:55 AM

31. I'm at a loss as to what you are trying to say

Last edited Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:30 AM - Edit history (1)

That you were stupid and high when the abuse occurred? That it is only abuse if bigotry is involved?

These dimissive interpretations of what is going on in that courtroom are based on very superficial observations. The abuse of power in the courtroom is quite obvious if you watch the video carefully.

This judge sent an 18-year-old to jail for an entire month because she reacted naturally and honestly to the abuse of authority. Stuff happens, okay, but taking sides with this Republican POS after the fact? I don't get that at all.

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Response to reorg (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:07 AM

36. what I said was clear, but you evidently need things explained in VERY

simple terms. I was not high. I was stupid. At least I had some justification for it. I was in a situation where my boyfriend was being abused. I was afraid for him.

Penelope did not have any reason to behave rudely and flippantly in court. None.

It figures that YOU don't get it. You think that little ass is a hero.

Pathetic.

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Response to cali (Reply #36)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:21 AM

42. none of which has anything to do with the topic at hand

unless you want to argue that having acted once in a way that you now consider "stupid", refusing to accept abuse, gives you the right to now condemn everyone who still doesn't feel that refusing to accept the abuse of authority is "stupid".

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Response to reorg (Reply #42)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:55 PM

204. Where was the abuse?

All the judge was doing prior to handing down the bail amount was conducting a bail hearing and what her needs were in respect to counsel. She was laughing, playing with her hair, acting like a complete ditz in general, probably high, not giving good answers so they could appropriately determine her need for a PD. Have you ever tried dealing with someone like that? Have you ever had to do that often? I bet he has more times than he cares to remember. The only abuse you see is that YOU think her bail amount and 30 days in jail (for flipping him off no less!) was extreme.

Cali on the other hand was dealing with honest and true BIGOTRY. While Cali says it was stupid, at least she was reacting passionately to something that truly was wrong.

This girl did not suffer bigotry of any kind. She got arrested for illegal possession and thought it was all ok to act like a disrespectful idiot to a JUDGE in a COURT of LAW. She may have been under the influence but as I said down thread it just demonstrates why she shouldn't be using this drug in the first place. She was handed her punishment, just as anyone else would get if they acted like that in court.

Get a grip, this is stupid. I can think of a million more serious things to get pissed about. I can also think of much better people to put on a pedestal as a hero. You need to rethink your qualifications for a hero.

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Response to reorg (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:14 PM

209. And who gives a flying crap

whether he's Republican or not? You think liberal judges like this kind of insolence in their court rooms? You think a liberal judge is going to just be perfectly fine with being flipped off?

His side isn't being taken because he's a *Republican*, it's being taken because she was a complete disrespectful mess and ANY judge she would have had would not have taken that very lightly. Maybe she would have got a lesser punishment if the guy was liberal, but maybe not. It's always a good idea to err on the side of caution with any judge that gets appointed to your case because you just might end up with some Republican prick who'll give you a harsh punishment for acting like an asshole.

Hopefully for her, that lesson was learned.

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Response to reorg (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:04 AM

303. "Abuse of authority"?

I didn't see it that way. I fully realize that there are people in this world who think any type of authority is bad.

Like five year olds, they stamp their feet and screech, "You're not the boss of ME!!!"

Look at them cross-eyed and they're jumping up and down ranting about "abuse of authority".

In any case, a person's political leanings have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not his position should be given due respect. Even if you don't respect the person, it's a real good idea to respect the OFFICE of the person. If that person is a judge, you respect his office, and you respect his venue...the courtroom.

And in most cases you save yourself a whole lot of aggravation.

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Response to reorg (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:13 AM

76. She stood up to an 'ugly

old fart...', and the 'ugly old fart' did what almost any trial judge would do under similar circumstances - nailed her
with contempt of court, 30 days. She made her point, and now has to pay the consequences. So what's the problem?

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Response to reorg (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:44 AM

122. Courage?

Nah...you know what courage is?

Standing up to the Taliban to fight for rights for ALL girls.

Not like this one who only seems to care about being able to use drugs illegally.

What Miss Soto did wasn't courageous.

It was immature and stupid.

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #122)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:16 PM

188. Well said!!!

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Response to reorg (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:42 PM

169. Confusing "courage" and "stupidity" may well be validating to your point of view,

Confusing "courage" and "stupidity" may well be validating to your point of view, but that certainly doesn't make studpidity into courage... regardless of how much you may wish it did.


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Response to reorg (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:14 PM

185. Where did she get the pills? Did she steal them?

I can't tell you what is like for someone who is prescribed that type of med just to have it stolen by an idiot who "wants to experiment". It causes a lot of grief and problems to the patient who needs the pills. They deserve what they get

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:30 AM

11. The girl is an moron and likely on drugs..

 

If not drugs, then even stupider than I thought.

If you can't comprehend the question "how much is it worth" then you will have a very tough time in life.

There is a place for civility in our society and telling judges to go fuck themselves isn't part of it.

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Response to Coyote_Tan (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:35 AM

19. more likely withdrawal symptoms

which should have been something for the judge to have in mind, but this asshole obviously doesn't care.

So every girl that doesn't know the exact value of her jewelry is a moron?

Oops, and there I thought some of them might have this stuff because they like to wear it.

The judge could have easily explained why he needed to know the status of her "wealth". The other judge, BTW, didn't ask this question. Apparently it wasn't really important.

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Response to reorg (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:16 AM

81. Shows that you really have no understanding what really happens

in preliminary hearings/bail hearings in Criminal Court.

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Response to reorg (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:56 AM

127. "more likely withdrawal symptoms"

really? Now you're just making up shit. And if you are going the route of making up shit, why not assume she thought she wsa clever and smarter than the judge. That her whole life shed been given a pass and indulged in bullying and narcissistic behaviours, and felt she had the right to be disrespectful to an adult and to the court? Why not *that* assumption, huh?

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #127)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:18 PM

148. Agreed. "Special Snowflake" syndrome. n/t

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #148)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:53 PM

329. More likely,

Special Trollflake Syndrome.

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Response to reorg (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:17 PM

163. Withdrawal symptoms?



Sorry, but she looked more like she was actually on something, not withdrawing from something.

And not knowing the exact value of her jewelry doesn't make her a moron. Not giving some kind of approx guess and replying "Rick Ross" does.

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Response to Coyote_Tan (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:16 AM

38. I don't doubt that Ms. Soto deserved a contempt sentence of some length

But it's also pretty clear that she didn't understand why she was being queried on her jewelry's worth. Now, that might make her dumb, or dumb and scared, or just scared, or high, or whatever. But I deal with a lot of eighteen year olds (in a university setting) and it often takes a few minutes for the context to make sense for them.

Just sayin'. Not taking sides here.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #38)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:30 AM

50. I think we agree...

 

Dumb or scared or high or whatever... The intentions don't really matter...

The reality is that not acting seriously in court, not being prepared, and of course telling a judge to go fuck himself will have a negative consequence.

Maybe the experience will help make her a little less stupid, scared or high for next time but I doubt it.

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Response to Coyote_Tan (Reply #50)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:38 AM

55. We probably agree on most aspects of this

I've learned that a tiny bit of patience with an eighteen year old usually pays off much more than chest-thumping and angry "lessons." Many of them - even those unlikely to end up in court on Xanax possession - are often just children in grown-up bodies. In this case, for example, a lot could have been avoided had the judge taken the thirty seconds it would cost him to explain the context of what was happening: "I'm trying to set your bail and appoint you a lawyer. To do that, I need to establish how much money you have. How much do you make a week, and do you have any other money to use?" Context is useful. Of course, huffing, puffing vindictiveness is more fun, and requires almost no effort.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #55)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:40 AM

57. exactly n/t

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #55)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:27 AM

84. The better lesson, I think...

 

Is that the world will most likely not take 30 seconds to explain how things are and what they mean and you had damn well be prepared to be agile enough to respond intelligently.

That's me though... I'm the first person to admit I have little tolerance for excuses or ignorance .

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Response to Coyote_Tan (Reply #84)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:37 AM

92. Congratulations, then

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #38)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:35 AM

52. Doesn't she watch Judge Judy?

--the questioning of what seems like "personal" matters should not be unfamiliar.

She is used to getting by with anything and everything, which will not benefit her in future.

The flippin off is what did it. Can't be tolerated.

(Just sayin--I realize you are not taking sides).

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:31 AM

13. I just watched the vid where the judge sent her to a drug program

He was kind to her.

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Response to cali (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:37 AM

120. and she wasn't

acting like a laughing fool with a buzz,funny how that works better in court.
Seems like she learned how not to act in a court in a weeks time.

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #120)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:34 PM

153. A few days in the slammer probably helped her adjust her attitude a bit.

I'm sure the attorney prepped her, as well.

Does she still have to finish the rest of the 30 days for contempt?

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #153)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:37 PM

156. per the news article

she does.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:32 AM

15. He was asking about her jewelry because he was trying to determine bail.

Remember how Zimmerman lied about how much money he had during his bail hearing? The problem with that was that he had enough money to skip town if he wanted to, which is what bail is supposed to prevent. This woman claimed she had some expensive jewelry. The judge was trying to determine the value of those assets. The woman was the one not answering his questions. She was not cooperating with the court proceedings.

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Response to Nine (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:37 AM

21. Yes, she was cooperating

she has not yet fully grasped the mindset of those pencil pushers in courtroom, and I can't blame an 18-year-old for that.

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Response to reorg (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:39 AM

24. How much does your jewelry cost if they are expensive; is pretty clear.

Not much mindset needed. A 4th grader can give you an estimate.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:45 AM

28. If you asked me how much does the stuff in my living room cost

the meaning is clear, but I'm still at a loss how to answer this question precisely. Unless you give me a few hours to make the calculations.

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Response to reorg (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:46 PM

158. it would take you a few hours to look in your living room

and say "Hmmm, it would cost X to rpelace my furniture?"

How fucking big is your living room?

It takes me all of, oh, 9 miliseconds to look in my livingroom and estimate that $4,000-$5,000 should be enough to replace the furniture and electrical equipment, decorations and books and rugs in my living room.

HE ASKED HER ABOUT HER JEWELRY. If it takes her some deep thought to estimate (ESTIMATE...not to the penny calculations) for the cost of her jewelry collection, then she has far larger problems looming than what initially appears.

I think you're here trolling for outrage, honestly. You cannot be serious about any of the answers you are presenting to DU.

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Response to Heddi (Reply #158)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:01 PM

174. Has it occured to anyone here that maybe she doesn't know how much her jewlery is worth because

they were gifts?

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Response to Sivafae (Reply #174)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:07 AM

250. seems to be a valid assumption

and logical to conclude from her reaction. Maybe some people always ask for and keep receipts for the gifts they get, but especially with jewelry I find it very plausible that young people don't make intrusive inquiries into the amounts somebody else had to pay for them.

In addition: I remember situations when I was younger and was asked questions under stress - sometimes I drew a blank, just didn't know what to say a) because I didn't understand what the question was actually about b) didn't know the right answer and c) was reluctant to admit I was clueless. So, I would either say nothing at all which usually would be interpreted as being obstinate, or say the first thing that did come to my mind, just to relieve the tension.

I could imagine the name of the rapper was something like that, perhaps she thought it might help to say something funny.


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Response to Heddi (Reply #158)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:07 AM

280. I think you nailed it.

I think there's outrage trolling happening here as well as a few well placed "ageist" insults to rile up us geezers on the board. Not even subtle. Some of the most amateur effort I've seen lately.

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Response to reorg (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:35 PM

165. So your answer would be "Rick Ross" while giggling like a schoolgirl too??

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Response to reorg (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:12 PM

195. Would you respond with the name of a rap artist?

Would you respond, "It's worth money?"

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Response to Nine (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:47 AM

29. I think if she answered $20,000

he would have increased bail. He was checking to see if she had the collateral for the bail. But the moron, just giggled and said something about rolls. Her actions showed she was taking the whole situation seriously. I think that is what got her bail doubled, not just "adios." He gave her reasonable bail, ROR for the drug charge and all she could do is giggle, not answer the questions, and play with her hair.

I personally would have lectured her about the appropriate behavior in court (especially when you are in trouble) and doubled her bail at that time. Then if she flipped me off, I'd deny bail for both charges.

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Response to Nine (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:43 AM

121. He was asking about her jewelry

to determine if she could afford a lawyer or needed a PD.

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #121)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:55 AM

126. I stand corrected. (nt)

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Response to Nine (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:01 AM

129. No, I believe the judge

(IIRC, I watched the video a couple of days ago) was asking about what she owned of value to determine whether or not she needed to have counsel appointed for her (a public defender) or whether she had sufficient resources to hire private counsel.

On edit: Go Vols (not really, go Razorbacks, Wooo Pig Sooie! ) beat me to it.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:34 AM

17. To me, there is no correct or right side here

It was a battle between two impulsive and thoughtless sides.

The girl acted, well, like an impulsive and immature child who was obviously ignorant of the proper decorum required in a court and the consequences of not adhering to them.

And the Judge was equally impulsive because he should have brought her over to the bench and explained to her how a courtroom works and the exact consequences for further disruption before slamming an already vurnerable young adult with a life altering punishment.

So there is no right side to take in this.

Both sides acted impulsively and unskillful.

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Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:22 PM

219. +1

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Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:28 AM

290. excellent post

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:35 AM

18. lol

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:39 AM

23. Trashing....3....2....1.....GONE!! nt.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:52 AM

30. Is this satire??

Hilarious! It looks like you really are defending her! LOL!

But in the outside chance your are serious...

This girl is already pretty fucked up. She's stupid. She has no concept of what is going on, she thinks she can smile and flirt her way out of trouble here, and cannot control her temper after her insincere attempt to flirt didn't work. She is disrespectful to the system at whose mercy she is and brought what she got on herself. And this idiot cannot even answer the simple question of how much is her jewelry worth. Her best attempt to quantify the value of the jewelry had nothing to do with numbers, but in what she relates to the value of some rapper. She is in for a life of trouble and problems. She will likely end up married to a thief, or worse yet big time drug dealer who will beat the hell out of her if the head she gives isn't good enough. She likely will be dead in 10 years or less.

The more immediate danger is that this girl is back out on the street, runs a red light doing 60 miles an hour, broadsides someone while texting and insists it's not her fault, while playing with her hair and with that "life is so good" Xanax feeling.

And she's too stupid to have a clue where she's headed, much less give a shit.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:56 AM

33. Awesome!

Words cannot express the stupidity of the OP's title.

Adios!

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:16 AM

39. seriously?

she treats the whole court proceeding as if it's a joke. Giggling, twiddling with her hair...and then flips the judge off? Completely inappropriate behavior for the situation she got herself into. Kudos to the judge. Perhaps if she learns her lesson now, she can manage to create a better life for herself.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:18 AM

40. The difference in her behaviour between the first video above and the second

Last edited Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:42 AM - Edit history (1)

is night and day.


Looks like she wised up.

Fine. Good. She learned her lesson.

Hope she gets sober and never has to see another judge for the rest of her life.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #40)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:26 AM

45. one night's good sleep

can make all the difference in the world when it comes to appearances.

Also, you may have noted that she is now represented by an attorney.

And the second judge doesn't appear to be a complete asshole like the first one.

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Response to reorg (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:54 AM

62. No, having boundaries finally set did

Having her jackassness finally called did,

Better she learn this at 18 than at 40, after a wasted youth. Or NEVER learn it.

Xanax should not be taken without a script. It is a Schedule IV drug. It is dangerous to her health.

He had to set bail, he had to know about her assets, she refused to answer the judge.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #62)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:28 AM

117. Exactly. The child had probably never learned their could be consequences for acting like that.

I don't care how much of a jerk a judge seems. That is one place to NOT be a smartass. Yes/No (mamm/sir) and direct answers. Period.

I really hope this helped set the girl on the right path.

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Response to reorg (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:22 PM

191. Because the first judge......in the part of the video that hardly anyone saw...appointed one

Watch the aftermath starting at 2:50

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #191)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:16 AM

287. no, you are wrong

that was actually the first video I saw, it is linked in the other thread. The judge appoints the public defender only "for the contempt", as he explicitly states, and not for "the felony" - which is what the second court session is about.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #40)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:29 AM

49. Yep--Tuff Luv

Her family didn't teach her, so society has to, one way or the other. He was no worse in interrogation than Judge Judy --and he did her a favor. (Some people in this thread seem to have no idea of what goes on in the courts).

Girl needs a dose of Reality. Hope she's young enough to straighten out.

She's already on her way to becoming a Kardashian.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:23 AM

44. .

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:26 AM

46. Thanks for this. Of course the righteous DUers loved this girl going to jail....

To any people do not understand how corrupt the legal system is!

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Response to Logical (Reply #46)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:32 AM

51. The system IS corrupt

but this is not an example of the worst of it. The girl needs a lesson in consequences. You don't flip off judges.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #51)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:22 PM

150. 1 or 2 days is a lesson, 30 days is a idiot judge! Shit, DUI drivers get no time! n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #150)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:31 PM

151. Not long enough

1-2 days is just enough time to brag to your friends, feel heroic, whine & complain and eventually laugh about it.

30 days is enough time to actually get her act together. She's on a slippery slope. I'm with "Judge Judy" here. It's not like the girl would be in Alcatraz. She'd survive just fine. They may even offer counseling.

DUI drivers should get more time.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:28 AM

48. Blech

You've got a strange criteria for heroes. Stupid little twit got what she deserved with that contempt charge.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:36 AM

53. She needed a wake-up call,and got one

As shown by the two videos. The judge might be a pompous ass, but she did not help herself at all in the first hearing.

That kid is no hero-just somebody who needs to grow up, get treatment, and get her act together.

(And what the hell does RickRolling have to do with a question about jewelry?)

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:39 AM

56. Wow

This person is your hero?

Did you watch the videos you posted?

I'm not seeing anything heroic.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:40 AM

58. A dumbass is your hero?

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:02 AM

265. What's that old country song? "My Heroes Have Always Been Dumbasses"?

The OP keeps flogging this poor, dead horse. It's a lonely place, defending the dumbasses.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:47 AM

59. Welcome to National Enquirer Underground.

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Response to callous taoboy (Reply #59)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:57 AM

64. that's how I feel about most of the comments

here and in the other thread.

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Response to reorg (Reply #64)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:50 PM

212. Yes, and ALL of us are 100% WRONG and you--YOU ALONE--are the paragon of reason.

You want to hold up this airhead idiot as some type of hero, be my guest.

Do you have children, by the way? Would you hope that they, like Ms. Soto, stand up to power in the same way?

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:56 AM

63. lololololol

Did you cheer when Lindsay Lohan wrote "F#ck You" on her nails and flashed them at a judge in court. I mean, that was just for a drug charge.

Ridiculous.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #63)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:00 AM

65. I know

she is one of the lesser, if not lesser known, movie stars - other than that I don't follow her travails, sorry.

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Response to reorg (Reply #65)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:26 AM

83. Oh, she absolutely isn't "lesser known"

Not at all.

You just can't back out of my analogy to Ms. Soto, because they are the same, but Soto has had a judge slap her down, and is seems to be helping her already.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #83)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:33 PM

221. reorg would love the judges in the Lohan case

Seeing as they are some of the biggest pushovers I've ever seen. That's what judges should be in his view....babysitters.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:02 AM

66. Yuck. You should choose better heroes.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:03 AM

67. If you link insolence to heroism

your hero meter is broken.

She got exactly what she deserved. Contempt, she deserved. Thirty days to think about it, she deserved. Five thousand is a joke? How about 10k then, deserved. Another hearing to redeem herself, deserved (only because she is 18 and came in ignorant of the gravity of her situation).

I've been in many, many courtrooms over the years before judges of all political stripes and he responded just as most would. Had she went to the second hearing with the same insolence, she may have received more of the same.

She is a stupid kid who is learning a valuable life lesson.

Hero, FFS...

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:10 AM

74. You might want to rethink your definition of 'hero.'

Seriously.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:13 AM

77. Hero....Not even close.

I do hope she is smart enough to have learned a lesson.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:13 AM

79. You need to look up the definition of Hero

Also 75 replies, 1014 views, and only 1 rec.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:15 AM

80. Coming from someone with a drug addict brother - GOOD for the judge

I am 32 now so am not old and cranky supporting the judge. I would have said the same if I was 22 also.

Drug addicts need to hit rock bottom. Hopefully this was her rock bottom.

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Response to SWTORFanatic (Reply #80)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:18 AM

107. The bottom line



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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:24 AM

82. I rec'd this for the entertainment value.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #82)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:28 AM

85. hahahahaha

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #82)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:26 AM

114. Winning!

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Response to Dr. Strange (Reply #114)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:22 AM

271. Lol. My hero has TIGER BLOOD

and is not at all insane.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:29 AM

86. I am shocked that someone who self-medicates with Xanax might behave as if she has social anxiety.nt

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Response to Ian David (Reply #86)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:42 AM

95. ROFL



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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:29 AM

87. I wouldn't go that far.

But the judge took it way too personally and probably needs to reconsider his ability to remain impartial. He got set off when she said "Adios"? I think he should retire ASAP.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #87)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:02 AM

130. So it's all good

If the judge was black it would have been ok to say, "later bro".

If the judge was japanese, "sayonara" would be cool.

I don't get the defense of it. Lesson learned I am sure. Did she mean it to be that way? Doubtful, but it's not really what you say it is how you say it.

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #130)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:15 AM

131. Doesn't matter.

His reaction was retaliatory and overly punitive. He could have just let it go, but no, he had to ramp it up. It's all on him.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:30 AM

88. Yeah, she's the Nelson Mandela of the 21st Century

Get a clue.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:32 AM

89. I thought she was quite disrespectful.

And not a hero of mine.
She needs to take this seriously or she will be back in a court sooner rather than later.
Not sure if jail will help, but she needs some sort of intervention.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:33 AM

90. Excellent, thorough and factual post.

The issue that aises from this incident is not what to do about "snotty" defendants but what to do about how these political hacks are selected to be judges.

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Response to rug (Reply #90)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:24 AM

112. it virtually fact free. OPINION. Learn the difference between fact and opinion

too funny.

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Response to cali (Reply #112)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:18 AM

132. An opinion that disregards facts and context is worthless.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:39 AM

93. I won't say a hero, 'cause, what's a hero?

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:45 AM

96. Hero?



This one is not even in the hero ballpark parking lot. Disrespectful punk is more like it.

Malala Yousafzai is a hero.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:12 AM

99. That judge is an asshole... and I question any sentences handed down by such a crabby prick. nt

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #99)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:15 AM

102. Not been in many courtrooms, eh?

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Response to pipoman (Reply #102)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:17 AM

104. Judges shouldn't demand respect without earning it. nt

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #104)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:21 AM

110. Judges earn it while in their courtroom the minute they are

elected or appointed. Society puts them in the position of authority and if you want to be snarky in their courtroom see where it gets you, regardless the sitting judge.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #104)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:26 AM

115. don't know anything about it, I see.

that's not the way it works.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #104)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:34 PM

154. The Court demands respect, and should be given it

A civilized society has to do that.

Toolish judges usually get theirs. This judge was not a tool, he's just a hardnoser. Some are, some aren't. I would rather see him be like that with someone young enough to still be helped onto the right path. It's obvious she has no boundaries or structure in her life, and he gave it to her.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #104)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:25 PM

220. Do you have personal knowledge of his record?

Or do you just see the black robe and start to steam?

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Response to pipoman (Reply #102)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:26 AM

133. Obviously.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:17 AM

105. As the person

in the first post said...you can do better for heroes.

Whatever that judge was, or wasn't, one thing people should know is the courtroom, the office of judge, and the legal system in general should all be given respect.

Much like someone's church. I don't like religion, but I would never go into someone else's church and act in a disrespectful manner.

That person was being silly and cocky and disrespectful. When her bail was raised for her "adios" comment, she couldn't practice self control enough to let it go. You want to be treated like an adult? Act like one.

Hopefully she's been taught a lesson...that when you're in someone else's "house", you don't disrespect it, or the person whose "house" it is.

PS...and as someone else asked...

A dumbass is your hero?

I'll tell you who my hero is...Malala Yousafzai.

Not some arrogant little snot who thinks she's being cute by dissing a judge.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:24 AM

113. Really? that's your hero?

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:34 AM

119. Way to set the bar low.

It doesn't matter if the judge is an asshole with a short temper. In fact, that just makes it more of a really, really stupid idea to say "fuck you" to him. When someone else holds all the cards, only an idiot calls their bluff.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:46 AM

123. meh, good cop, bad cop (errr, I mean judge)

she won't be flipping any judge the bird from here on out.

Lesson learned.

Your essay in assumptions didn't change my mind.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:32 AM

134. I wouldn't call her a hero, but I'm glad to see she's got a second hearing! nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #134)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:35 PM

155. That usually happens with a CoC charge

They let them cool off then bring them back in.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:34 AM

135. Judges are sometimes arrogant, as are police.

A wise person bites their tongue about it until they leave their presence. We are a nation of laws, and she had best learn that. And show some respect to officers of the court.

I would have given her 30 days for that level of contempt, too.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:36 AM

136. What the judge was doing was proving everyone is equal before the Court

She was snide and acting above it all because she was young, pretty and rich. Well, that is not the way it is supposed to work. She found out.

I was in misdemeanor court yesterday for most of the morning call. Probably a hundred defendants went through. Not one acted the way she acted.

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Response to AngryAmish (Reply #136)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:41 AM

137. 30 days of jail for the finger is not equal

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #137)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:46 AM

141. True. If she was black it would be sixty.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #137)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:16 PM

147. 30 days for f-bombing in court is pretty standard


UNITED STATES
v.
Anthony J. PINA
844 F.2d 1

"The Supreme Court, in its unanimous decision in Mayberry v. Pennsylvania, 400 U.S. 455, 91 S.Ct. 499, 27 L.Ed.2d 532 (1971), held that, when a judge is subject to personal attacks throughout the course of a trial, a different judge should preside over the contempt proceedings if those proceedings are conducted after entry of verdict on the underlying charge. In that case, the contemnor had been sentenced for eleven to twenty years in one contempt proceeding at the end of his trial. Id. at 455, 91 S.Ct. at 500. In court, the defendant, among other things, had called the trial judge a "dirty son of a bitch," "dirty tyrannical old dog," and "fool," and told him to "go to hell" and "keep your mouth shut."...

In the trial below, appellant's behavior was so outrageous as to make the defendants in Mayberry and Taylor look well-mannered by comparison. Appellant called the judge, among other things, "a little child," "a fucking idiot," "a sick individual," "a fucking fool," a "lying, bigot motherfucker," "a cold-blooded fucking Wizard," a "no good piece of shit," and a "no good maggot." He told the judge he "should have been a Klansman," to put his "mother in contempt ... that damn pig that brang you in this world," "to hurry up and have a fucking heart attack," to "suck my balls," and to "go fuck your mother."

During the course of the trial, the following sentences were imposed: on August 6, 1985, 30 day suspended sentence for two instances of contempt on August 2; on August 12, 1985, revocation of the 30 day suspension plus 150 days of consecutive sentences (plus 120 days concurrent sentences) for three contempt citations on August 5 and 7; on August 14, an additional 420 days for three instances of cited behavior on August 9 and 12; on August 20, a total of 1080 days for nine citations on August 13, 14, and 15; and on August 22, 1985, an additional 480 days for four instances of contemptuous behavior on August 19 and 20. After return of the jury verdict, the following sentences were imposed: on August 23, 1985, 120 days for one instance of contempt on August 21; and on September 26, 480 days for three contempt citations issued on August 22 and eight citations issued August 21. (The latter included eight 180 day concurrent sentences for eight refusals to respond while on the witness stand)"


----

JERMAINE HARDY v. SUPERIOR COURT, JUDICIAL
DISTRICT OF FAIRFIELD, GEOGRAPHICAL
AREA NUMBER TWO

Because
what occurred during this exchange is critical to our
resolution of the plaintiff’s claim, we set forth the
exchange in its entirety.

‘‘The Marshal: Go on back.
‘‘: Why are you pushing me like that?
‘‘The Marshal: Go on back.
‘‘: This dude, man. Hey, yo, don’t push
me like no more, man. You want to walk with us, you
don’t have to push.
‘‘The Marshal: You listen to him.
‘‘: Get your hands off of me.
‘‘The Court: Excuse me.
‘‘: Get your hands off.
‘‘The Court: Excuse me.
‘‘: This dude got his hands on me,
for what?
‘‘The Court: Excuse me. You’re in court.
‘‘: I know, but he’s pushing me for no
reason at all. I’m walking back slowly. Come on, man.
I’m a human being like him, man. Fuck, ’cause I mean,
I’m in chains, because I’m different? Come on, man.
‘‘The Court: ?
‘‘: This dude, man.
‘‘The Court: ?
‘‘The Marshal: Stop talking. Look at the judge.
‘‘: got so much anger in me right
now, man.
‘‘The Court: All right. All right.
‘‘: I’m telling you, man.
‘‘The Court: I’ve heard enough. I’ve heard enough.
Sir, you’re represented by counsel, and normally I
would say—
‘‘: Yo. The cuff, hold on my cuff.
‘‘The Marshal: Relax.
‘‘: Stop.
‘‘The Court: Normally, I would say that your attorney
should—sir, I excused you from the courtroom. Thank
you. Normally, I would allow a chance for your attorney
to talk to you. However, based on your continued conduct,
I’m going to find you in contempt.
‘‘: Whatever, man. Put me back.
‘‘The Court: I’m going to find you in contempt of this
court. You have prevented the orderly processes of
this court. You’ve interrupted the orderly processes of
this court.
‘‘: I did what?
‘‘The Court: And, sir, if you wish to keep it up, sixty
days, dead time.
‘‘: You see what this dude just did to
me, man.
‘‘The Court: See you in sixty days. You’re committed
to the commissioner of correction for sixty days.
‘‘: You see what this dude just did to me.
‘‘The Court: Thank you. Thank you.
‘‘: I’m what? I’m what for sixty days?
Fuck you, sixty days, motherfucker.
‘‘The Court: Back.
‘‘: Ain’t that nothing.
‘‘The Court: Back.
‘‘: Yo, get the fuck off of me. Yo, get
the fuck off of me, man. Wait until I get off these cuffs,
yo. Wait until I get off these cuffs, man.
‘‘The Marshal: I can’t wait.
‘‘: Wait until I get off these cuffs,
man. Yo.
‘‘The Court: I’ll vacate the prior sentence—
‘‘: Man, get the fuck out of here, man.
‘‘The Court: You’re committed to the custody of
commissioner of correction for a period of one
hundred—
‘‘: Hey, yo, I don’t give a fuck, man.
‘‘The Court: One hundred twenty days.
‘‘: Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. I don’t
give a fuck, motherfucker.
‘‘The Court: We’ll see you in a hundred—
‘‘: Fuck you. You don’t see me nothing,
motherfucker. Fuck all of you.
‘‘The Court: See you—see you in six months, sir.
‘‘The Plaintiff: You won’t see me, shit, motherfucker.
Dick head, motherfucker. Fucking bitch. You, I want
you bad. I want you bad.
‘‘: All right.’’
The trial court then continued the case for six
months.

The plaintiff filed a writ of error, seeking reversal of
the trial court’s judgment, pursuant to which he was
summarily convicted of criminal contempt of court and
sentenced to a term of 120 days incarceration.


------------------------


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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:42 AM

138. I was mortified about the responses here yesterday. It is getting harder and harder

 

to believe that the majority of posters here are really Democrats anymore.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #138)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:19 PM

149. What's that mean?

To be a Democrat you have to disrespect authority?

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Response to OldHippieChick (Reply #149)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:35 PM

164. You seem to fail to recognize that the judge was disrespectful initially, there's not a thing

 

wrong with saying "adios," is there? Anything worth $5K and 30days? Yes, I expect Dems to be thinkers, not the obedient thinkers that simply follow the demanded authority of those that are not behaving in an authoritative manner. To be the ones that support non-violent protestation of blatant unfairness.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #164)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:03 PM

175. It wasn't the "adios" that got her 30 days, it was the "Fuck..." that did.

no matter how big a jerk the judge is, you're not going to get far if you lip off to him. That's what the lawyer is for.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #175)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:17 PM

210. The adios got her the $10K BS which prompted the fuck you.

 

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #210)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:54 PM

215. I learned a long time ago not to lip off to judges or cops

Keep mouth shut and let mouthpiece do the talking. Or face the consequences as she did.
I have no sympathy for that level of stupid and not much more for anyone that thinks styupid got picked on.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #175)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:39 AM

291. but the whole

situation was over until the judge called her back because she said adios. That's when he upped her bail and then came the bird

He escalated it. It was personal, punitive and abusive

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Response to Carolina (Reply #291)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:42 AM

292. doesn't matter.

They have the power and it's a good idea not to antagonize the power. You can always get a bad decision reversed but she had an attitude from the get go.

That's why any lawyer will tell you to keep your mouth SHUT. She failed Lesson #1.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #164)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:59 PM

206. Adios said

with an insolent little smirk on one's face is disrespectful.

And stupid. Especially when it's done to/at someone with the power to "use their authority" to fuck with one's future.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #164)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:43 PM

222. Hard truth here

But it is not the Court's duty to be respectful to disrespectful criminals. Her entire attitude and demeanor was disrespectful. He was doing his job. Apparently you feel Dems should not show the Court proper respect. Well, I respectfullly disagree.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #164)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:22 PM

241. Before saying a snarky "Adios" to the *Latino* judge, she

had smirked and giggled and goofed at him for several minutes and offered silly smartass replies to serious questions.

She was acting in a way that no judge would have tolerated. She played with her hair and acted as though she was trying to be seductive, as though that would get her whatever she wanted, because she was absolutely sure that she was so very, very cute that she could act in any way she pleased, because no one would ever take her to task, no matter how inappropriately she behaved.

By the second hearing, the fact that she had been held responsible for her bad behavior seems to have made a big difference, because she behaved much more appropriately the second time she was in court.

The girl needed to learn a bit of self-control so that she would not end up in even worse trouble some day. She is 18. That's a little old to be so completely ignorant of the need to behave with at least a modicum of decorum when standing before a judge!

On edit: People who can't adjust their behavior to the situations they find themselves in are the ones who end up getting smacked down hard in life. This was a relatively safe lesson. By having experienced consequences of her misbehavior at a relatively young age (though obviously not young enough!), she might be spared worse consequences in the future.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #138)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:12 PM

162. really? it's mortifying to see an op calling this girl a hero

not to mention the sheer ignorance displayed by those of you who apparently condone or extol the kind of behavior this girl displayed in court.

Not to mention that it has nothing to do with whether or not one is a democrat or a liberal.

I'm so discouraged by the lack of critical thinking I see here.

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Response to cali (Reply #162)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:39 PM

199. I think some of Ms. Soto's supporters are as stoned as she was.

They just aren't watching the same video the rest of us are, or they are chemically impaired and not seeing all the things she did that brought on the appropriate consequences from the judge.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #199)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:25 AM

272. Or attention trolls

as I suspect of this OP

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #199)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:53 AM

275. THREAD. WINNER

I think some of Ms. Soto's supporters are as stoned as she was.

That is truly the only thing that supports these insanely dumb-assed statements of support for this stupid little girl.

By the time she's the age of her "supporters" here, I have no doubt she will be much, MUCH smarter than they are now.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #138)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:37 PM

229. +1. I have little use for people with a law-and-order fetish.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:48 AM

142. The judge is a jerk.

 

Plain and simple.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:51 AM

144. How does that work? How did she get another hearing after having

been sent to jail and after having her bond set?

Who is the authority that overruled the original judgement and erased Rodriguez-Chomat's orders, giving Soto another hearing?

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #144)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:44 PM

157. They usually do that with CoC charges

And will even lower the bail, if the prisoner apologizes to The Court. That happened here.

She hadn't been convicted of anything yet, she had just had the bail and charge hearing.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:52 AM

145. I was surprised as well, happily, that the majority of DUers sided with the judge. nt

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #145)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:30 PM

226. So, does this news development displease you?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #226)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:33 PM

227. No. However...

my guess is this won't be the last judge she'll be in front of, and I doubt her luck will hold for long.

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Response to Skip Intro (Reply #227)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:34 PM

228. You guess or you hope?

Nah, no need to answer. This is for you to think about.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #228)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:51 PM

231. Oh the drama and veiled accusations...


Why some here can't have a discussion without things becoming personal is beyond me.

I appreciate when someone who thinks laws don't apply to him/her is shown differently.

I appreciate a demand for respect for our system of justice inside the courtroom and I appreciate the fair enforcement of such.

The person in question was clearly in contempt of court and deserved the smackdown from the judge.

She got lucky and got a second chance, this time around.

It is my impression that this entire episode has had little lasting effect, and that she'll be back in front of a judge in short order.

These are my opinions. They may differ from yours. People disagree. Deal with it.

If you wish to debate these points I'm happy to oblige, however, if debate to you means engaging in personal attacks, however subtle, then find someone else's time to waste.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:32 PM

152. Yes, she is quite the hero. I'm showing the video to my daughters and I'll tell them,

"I want you to grow up to be JUST LIKE HER!"

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #152)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:12 PM

176. Like a Kardashian?



meaning: act like a demented, entitled, unsocialized idiot and expect fame & glory?

If you think this judge was unfair or worse than average, suggest to go to your city or county court and hang out for awhile...

I think there is abuse and corruption in the system, but not so much here by comparison.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #176)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:10 PM

194. Oops. Did I forget my sarcasm tag?

I think this judge (the first one) was spot on.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #194)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:13 PM

196. you did

yuk yuk

I thought you might have but you give me excuse to the Kardashians...

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #196)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:17 PM

197. I must confess I only have the vaguest idea of who the Kardashians are.

But if they are part of the new media culture of morons who have reality shows where they teach impressionable young people how to act like spoiled, entitled, irrational and disrespectful louses, then please away.

I feel that "reality" shows like that are producing a generation of Penelope Sotos.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #197)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:44 PM

211. You know enough

--you don't even have to google them. Three spoiled rich bitches getting on with their very public totally self-absorbed, product-oriented lives. (If you call that living)...

I agree this show is toxic for the gullible among the younger generation. Smarter ones will be disgusted.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #152)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:14 PM

186. lol

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:55 PM

160. Hero?

She showed no respect for the Court. You just don't do that, and she got what she deserved.

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Response to Rider3 (Reply #160)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:43 PM

171. "'Hero'? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Not you, of course. This could be said to the OP.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:00 PM

173. You have a very strange idea of "heroism".

She deserved what she asked for.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:26 PM

177. Firefighters are heroes. Nurses are heroes

Cesear Chavez was a hero. MLK was a hero. The hitchhiker who stopped an insane man from nearly killing someone is a hero. That little disrespectful brat is NOT a hero.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:45 PM

178. You Really Need to Watch the Video a Few More Times - She's A Strung Out Addict - Not Hero.

She was clearly high as a kite. Her attorney should have tried to get a continuance and not let her appear.

She obviously lied about not having taken drugs in the last 24 hours. Then she spaced out trying to answer the simplest questions. I don't see how difficult it would be to answer a question about the value of her jewelry in terms of dollars rather than blather out it's worth a whole lot of money. "When she doesn't quite get what she is supposed to say about the "value" of her jewelry and nervously laughs, trying to put a friendly face on her confusion, he reminds her that 'you are not in a nightclub.'" She was too high to get what she was supposed to say in answer to a simple question and to realize an answer like "its' worth a whole lot of money" was not appropriate as a response to a question required an answer much more specific than she gave. Nervous laugh - not at all. She laughed because she was so high she was clearly not taking the proceedings seriously. So I'm not sure how she could have been nervous.

She paid no respect to the judge and clearly was too impaired to understand the seriousness of the proceedings.

If the judge doubled her bail to keep her locked up for a while it would probably work out to be in her best interest so she could sober up. I noticed you didn't say the other judge dropped the 30-day sentence for contempt. Did the other judge let that stand? I hope so. There is never any justifiable reason to tell a judge "Fuck You" and throw them the finger.

And what the hell does the judge's bling have to do with anything? Totally irrelevant to the proceedings and actually off-topic to the rest of your OP.

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Response to dballance (Reply #178)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:15 PM

187. It was a bail hearing -- she had to appear

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:50 PM

179. As an attorney, I've had my share of judges.

Last edited Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:45 PM - Edit history (1)

And I'm telling y'all it's a waste of your time to "one up" even the rudest, most ignorant, etc. person on the bench.

First, you're not persuading anybody you're smarter than the judge.

Next, it's a courtroom, not a comedy club. If you need to remember why you have to act even a little reverent, it's because you're in a court of law. It's up there with church services and funerals.

Next, you can get yourself fined or in jail for contempt of court. Judges can and will do that.

Finally, being rude to someone who is going to decide whether you're guilty or liable is not the way to go. Even if the judge has let it be known which way s/he is leaning, you stay classy. If the judge is totally outrageous, you can pursue your own justice outside of court by filing a complaint or grievance.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #179)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:06 PM

182. Agree!

Coming from an attorney, you can't argue with that people!


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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #179)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:59 PM

207. I agree with 100% of what you've said

I've been in court several times and yes, the judges tended to be curt and very blunt to the point of borderline rudeness.

Was I pleased with their behavior ? Not totally but I kept my mouth shut, did my business and got the hell out of dodge. If it had been totally over the line, I would have filed a grievance as you said.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:07 PM

183. She's a punk who flipped off a judge.

Punk: A petty criminal or hoodlum

Hero: A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life.

There's a big difference between the two.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:20 PM

189. I confess, I owe this judge more than 20 days :-)

I said it more than once

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:21 PM

190. A great teaching tool

There are times when you will pay a stiff penalty for being impolite and unserious.

Cheers!

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:24 PM

192. Wow. I cannot believe you are playing the mysogonist angle...

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:07 PM

193. We all like

a good rebel from time to time, someone standing up for the greater good of a cause much larger than themselves. Some of our heroes have been rebels.

But a hero is not someone who gets arrested for illegal possession of a prescription medication and then treats the whole court like a joke. Laughing and generally acting like a ditz, not answering questions correctly got her $10,000 bail instead of $5,000. Then she flips off the judge and gets 30 days in county jail. Unreasonable, I don't think so. She *may* have been jacked up on Xanax at the time and may not have otherwise behaved that way - but that would just demonstrate perfectly why she should not even be on Xanax in the first place. 30 days in jail would at least get her off that, then head off to rehab as the 2nd judge requested, finish it to the court's satisfaction, get the charge off her record and start over fresh.

I truly hope she is able to fly straight from now on. She might even eventually understand that the judge, along with her second judge, may have done her a favor. Some in life gotta learn the hard way.





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Response to OwnedByCats (Reply #193)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:40 PM

200. She's a Rebel Without a Clue.

Only now, after getting 30 days for contempt, I think she's beginning to get a clue.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:46 PM

201. OK she shouldn't have flipped off the judge

But I can only half-heartedly condemn that.

The real outrage is why we are putting people away for non-violent drug offenses.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #201)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:54 PM

203. Perhaps she should have been charged with theft then.

Or at least theft by receiving. Since Xanax is a legally manufactured product, and the fact that she had no Rx for it, that can only mean it was stolen from a wholesaler/pharmacy/legally prescribed patient.

Would that ameliorate your outrage?

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #201)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:47 AM

293. thank you, bluestateguy

I said something similar upthread.

Let's lock 'em up for insolence and drugs even though incarceration cures neither. Meanwhile, insolence is all over the airwaves and violent criminals (esp domestic abusers) roam free.



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Response to Carolina (Reply #293)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:30 AM

300. Seems to have cured her insolence

judging from her conduct in the second hearing..no, a very important lesson is/was learned here about conduct in a courtroom. If this is a cause, that is, the cause of infantile behavior on the public dime and complete disrespect for society's mechanism for dealing with criminals like Soto (petty as they may or may not be), you won't have to go far to protest...just visit your county courthouse any day of the week. You're sure to find many judges to target for your protestations..good luck..

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:51 PM

202. Sorry, but anyone stupid enought to flip off a judge in the courtroom gets no sympathy from me.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:56 PM

205. I watched the video and while the judge may be a crotchety old crank

he was perfectly justified in sending her down for contempt. Her actions are a text-book example of the "contempt of court".

And before anybody jumps in and claims I love cops and cranky judges, I do not. But the young lady in question was either under the influence or a complete idiot.

To portray this woman as a "hero" is to abuse the word.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:00 PM

208. she reminds me of a Drugged out version of Snookie, Kardashians etc

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:04 PM

213. What a poor choice of heroes. If you want a case of a really fucked up judge getting righteously

messed with by youth from the drug culture, I'll take Judge Julius Hoffman and the Chicago 7 over this judge and Soto, the LSD over the xanax (how lame is that?) and activist defendants and attorneys who intentionally used a corrupt courtroom to make actual theater about corrupt courtrooms. The defendants were all charged with contempt, as were their lawyers in amounts ranging up to 4 years. Read the following, and compare to the self centered and sedated Soto:
MR. WEINGLASS: Will you please identify yourself for the record?

THE WITNESS: My name is Abbie. I am an orphan of America.

MR. SCHULTZ: Your Honor, may the record show it is the defendant Hoffman who has taken the stand?

THE COURT: Oh, yes. It may so indicate. . . .

MR. WEINGLASS: Where do you reside?

THE WITNESS: I live in Woodstock Nation.

MR. WEINGLASS: Will you tell the Court and jury where it is?

THE WITNESS: Yes. It is a nation of alienated young people. We carry it around with us as a state of mind in the same way as the Sioux Indians carried the Sioux nation around with them. It is a nation dedicated to cooperation versus competition, to the idea that people should have better means of exchange than property or money, that there should be some other basis for human interaction. It is a nation dedicated to--

THE COURT: Just where it is, that is all.

THE WITNESS: It is in my mind and in the minds of my brothers and sisters.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/chicago7/hoffman.html

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:16 PM

217. Abusive?

The guy was laughing and joking with her before she decided to act like a toolbag.

Let's face it, you just don't like "the system". You don't want anyone to hold you accountable for anything.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:05 PM

223. This woman shouldn't be anyones hero

>To my great surprise (well, in some cases) 9 out of ten posters celebrated and agreed with the abusive judge who in the first bail
>hearing had doubled the amount requested by the prosecution to $10,000 on a whim and for no good reason at all, ensuring that she
>would stay in jail for a while, I suppose.

He had a good reason. She had a totally inappropriate demeanor for appearing at sentencing. She didn't show the slightest bit of remorse and acted like the entire process was a joke to her. His job as a judge is to try to determine an appropriate sentence and it was totally clear she wasn't understanding that she was in the wrong, had broken the law, and was going to be punished.

>She was obviously shocked and upset over this and when she was walking out of the room, she flipped the bird and said quietly
>"fuck you". Up to this point she had been nice and friendly, going out of her way to be courteous, honest and open - even though she
>is being held in jail, made to wear a ridiculous jump suit and even more ridiculous double sized slippers, and likely didn't get all that
>much sleep the night before judging by the way she looks and acts. Watch the video:

What video did you watch? The one in your post shows her acting like she's still high on drugs, not answering questions clearly, and other wise trying to be 'too cool for school', as if the entire process is so funny.

>The judge OTOH is arrogant and obnoxious from the start. When she doesn't quite get what she is supposed to say about the "value"
>of her jewelry and nervously laughs, trying to put a friendly face on her confusion, he reminds her that "you are not in a nightclub" -
>the only place, perhaps, he imagines where a woman is supposed to be nice and charming. She politely apologizes for laughing, says
>her jewellery (sic) is worth "a lot of money". Rudely he inquires "like what". Can a question get any more unspecific?

This is the most bizarre commentary. A judge is not there to make your time at sentencing enjoyable by bending over back-wards to be polite. Their job is to determine what is an appropriate punishment. This question about her jewelry is entirely related to determining if she qualifies for a court appointed attorney. Our legal system provides attorneys to those who cannot afford them, if you have money, you are expected to cover your own costs. It's not rude for him to ask 'Like What'. That's him doing his job.

>...But the judge cannot get over himself. "I'm not going to appoint you, she says she has a substantial amount of jewelry!" Snark,
>snark, snicker, snicker.

Again, you seem to have completely missed the point. His first job was determining if she qualified for a court appointed attorney, it's not snarky for him to decide she doesn't need one after she's bragged about jewelry worth a lot of money. This is just how our courts work. Going to court for breaking the law isn't supposed to be fun.

>In the end, he dismisses her, being cutesy, with "bye bye", waving his hand, only to call her back and deliberately upset her after
>she - in a very pleasant way - wishes him "Adios".

The very pleasant 'adios' was just the last straw in her acting entirely like the proceedings were a joke. He realized at that moment that the $5,000 bond hadn't woken her up that her arrest was for a serious offense. When it was set at $10k he finally had her attention. Then she showed her true colors and the judge acted appropriately. The very notion of 'contempt of court' is that you are treating the court disrespectfully. It's for exactly the type of behavior that she showed.

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Response to yeahitsme72 (Reply #223)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:17 PM

224. Welcome to DU!

As an aside, you might find the "i" or "excerpt" buttons make interleaved responses like that easier to read.

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Response to yeahitsme72 (Reply #223)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:39 AM

261. +1000

I can't believe people are defending this woman. No wonder our society is out of whack if people think she's a hero for showing up in court stoned out of her mind and then is snide to the judge. You address the judge as "Your Honor" and answer with "yes sir/ma'am." Not f-you.

Given the way she acted I thought he was rather calm and didn't dress her down right there in court.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:19 PM

225. He certainly isn't a good representation of good Court room decorum.

Maybe he should be thrown off the bench. How did he get there? Elected?

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:37 PM

230. Lame hero.

She was clearly in contempt of court and it's not even controversial. There are times to be rude -- a bail hearing is not one of them.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:59 PM

233. You're serious?

That was NOT a 'pleasant' adios. In fact it came off as racist toward the judge. She was in court, she acted like it was a big joke, like she was too cute to actually be in any trouble.

That said, drug laws are idiotic and she shouldn't have been there on drug charges in the first place.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:17 PM

240. The judge is Cuban, her jail record lists her as white. The 'adios' comes off as rude and racist.

Not 'pleasant'.

Your whole interpretation of that courtroom scene is kind of bizarre. The judge is being 'impertinent' by asking if this unserious and inappropriately giggling girl is on drugs? She's acting like she's on drugs, she's there on drug charges, and you'd call that an 'impertinent question'? Strange.

http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/fl-mdc/2013-02-04/penelope-soto-130007582

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Response to Matariki (Reply #240)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:07 AM

244. I suspected he is

one of those Cuban exiles, seems to fight right in.

Even though he went to school and college in the US, is living and working there for 50 years, he still pronounces the English word "criminal" as if he were speaking Spanish, strange, that.

Penelope Soto also speaks with a touch of Latino accent which you can hear when she says "I got a lot of jewelry alright". Her name does appear to be Spanish to me. And if you take a look at the first video above you will see that she has probably more black blood in her than ever came close to that Cuban judge, who very much looks like he directly descended from Spanish colonialists, the epitome of "white" with a long tradition of deadly racism to boot.

So, if you want to bring "racism" into this, it's more likely that of an arrogant descendent of slaveholders who is showing that uppity little mestiza he won't take no "adios" from her - as if they were of one and the same kind, oh no.

His question about her using drugs within the last 24 hours comes when he doesn't understand what she is saying or why she is saying it. Instead of trying to find out, you know, like solving a problem, he just barks "like what" at her. I would find it myself very interesting to learn what exactly she meant by mentioning the name "Rick Ross". Did it pop into her mind while watching the picture of that pompous, obese little man on the video screen who reminded her of the rapper? Possible. Anyway, the judge never acts with the dignity required by his position. I would expect some more eloquence, situational awareness and tact from him, just as I would from any college educated person, but maybe I'm expecting too much.

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Response to reorg (Reply #244)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:12 AM

251. You "suspected he is one of those Cuban exiles" ???

What exactly does that mean?

In all your posts you jump to a lot of very strange conclusions. Fabrications of your own mind that show more about you than anything that actually happened in that court.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #251)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:21 AM

255. You brought it up

I never mentioned it, but was thinking he might be one of those.

So, you no longer defend your outrageous claim that Penelope Soto made a "racist" remark when she, who spoke with a Latin accent and has a Latin name wished the judge with a Latin name and a Latin accent "Adios"? Good.

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Response to reorg (Reply #255)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:25 AM

256. Her rap sheet says she's white. Whatever she is, she's a little asshole.

Who found herself in a place where the crap coming out of her smart-ass mouth had consequences.

Stupid person to idolize. You must have very low standards.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #256)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:54 AM

264. sorry, I'm unfamiliar with her "rap sheet"

and how it conclusively documents heritage, DNA or whatever else is used in the US to define "race".

Personally, I find such categories repellent and don't use them at all.

The point was: YOU have made an outrageous and unfounded accusation of racism against Penelope Soto, a girl with a name and accent that seem to indicate she is part of a community where names with Spanish origin and Latin pronunciations of English words are common. Because she may have appealed to someone's sympathy as a fellow member of that community. How you even came up with such an allegation boggles the mind, really. Enough of that now, don't further embarrass yourself.

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Response to reorg (Reply #264)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:03 AM

267. You've shown yourself to be racist, ageist, and 'lookist' through this whole thread

But it got you attention. So there's that.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #267)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:06 AM

269. So *I* am the racist now?

Interesting. Don't get lost in the jumble of your conclusions.

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Response to reorg (Reply #255)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:25 AM

257. "one of those"

Your defense of racism is grounded in racist language.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #257)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:47 AM

262. huh?

"one of those" as in "one of those inhabitants of Miami that have left Cuba some time around the revolution and form a major community in Florida now" is racist language now, seriously?

Please explain.

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Response to reorg (Reply #262)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:48 AM

263. Really? You don't know? Do you also say "you people" to minorities?

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Response to Matariki (Reply #263)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:03 AM

266. methinks you are trying to deflect

attention from the fact that someone here accused Penelope Soto of "racism" because she said good bye in Spanish to a judge whose first language appeared to be Spanish.

Not sure what you are asking. In a conversation about Spanish exiles from the fascist Spain in the seventies I might have referred to a member of that community who I shared an apartment with as "one of those", yes. "You people"? Perhaps I would address a group of tourists from the US as such if the occasion arises? I have no idea but I should think it's possible.

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Response to reorg (Reply #255)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:30 AM

258. What I didn't bring up is "one of those" - what the hell kind of racist shit is that

and what do you mean by "seems to fit right in"?

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Response to reorg (Reply #255)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:12 PM

314. But of the judge's accent you say:

"Even though he went to school and college in the US, is living and working there for 50 years, he still pronounces the English word "criminal" as if he were speaking Spanish, strange, that."
Her accent is her defense, his is an indictment?

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:41 PM

242. I would have tossed her ass in jail as well

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:15 AM

246. I showed this video to my students today

I told them that if and when they are ever to be in front of any kind of authority figure, whether it's a teacher, police officer, parent, or judge, that they need to remember to be respectful and answer every question as if their livelihood depended on it. This young woman was being disrespectful towards a judge...do you think she would get a great response from a State Trooper who pulled her over? She might get shot. You don't dance around and give stupid answers. You stand at attention, answer every question with a proper answer, and treat them with respect, or you end up like this young woman.

To further explain the reality of this to my students, I told them how much this woman earns at her job. Then I told them about the fines she received. Turned it into a bit of a math lesson.

Most of my students are visible minorities. They don't always get along with authority figures. Some of the students I have taught have been in jail, or were on probation. I've kept students out of jail by telling officers that they would learn more in my class than they'll learn in a cell.

You want a hero...find someone who isn't going to jail for possession. There are a lot of those people out there.

And yes, I consider myself a Democrat. Democrats don't always have to agree on everything their party believes in, just like not all Republicans are in agreement on everything they think their party believes in.

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Response to the devil (Reply #246)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:18 AM

253. Yes, be very afraid, obey, conform, submit. After all, those are the principles this

 

country was founded on.


















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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #253)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:30 AM

259. No, those aren't the principles this country was founded on.

However when dealing with, let's say police, that is damn good practical advice. No reason to give a cop having a bad day a reason to arrest you, or worse, use force against you. This is an unfortunate reality of the world.

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Response to bayareamike (Reply #259)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:15 PM

323. Of course you are right, and this woman is no hero.

 

It is just the resigned acceptance of what, not very long ago, was the antithesis of America that galls some of us.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #253)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:55 AM

295. A Black kid doesn't do what you scorn and he's dead.

Keep that in perspective. Some people don't have the luxury. And this girl was lucky aside from being completely in the wrong.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #295)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:15 PM

324. You're right, see #323

 

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #253)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 10:20 AM

302. Nobody said

"be afraid".

Nobody said to submit.

Here's the thing...people are free to act any way they want, up to, and including, being disrespectful jackasses to authority figures.

Really...do whatever the hell they want.

Just be prepared to accept the consequences of those actions. No bellyaching. No whining over "oppression" or being overpowered by authority figures.

Either act with respect and get through the process relatively unscathed

or

Act like a jackass and make the whole thing even harder and more miserable than it needs to be.

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #302)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:12 PM

321. Spoken like a well conditioned authoritarian. n/t

 

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:14 AM

252. It looks like the judges tactics worked

She cleaned up her act for the second appearance. Sometimes the only way to learn is the hard way.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #252)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:38 AM

260. I once had a little dog

who viciously barked at everyone approaching the house, chased cats, rabbits and bicylists through the park and would start a fight whenever he met a fellow dog.

His tactics worked.

But it may not be the end of the story.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:05 AM

268. I'm glad the judge cared enough to cite her for contempt

and raise her bail. I'm sure he sees so many like her that he could just not pay any attention to the individuals at all. But just maybe this girl acted out to get attention and just maybe this is enough to force her to get help. She could be a beautiful, productive young woman. But she's dead thin right now. She will die if she continues as she is.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:06 AM

270. You really should aim higher

I think she behaved terribly (even if the judge was being an asshole). She has made her bed by disrespecting the court and now she should lie in it.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:49 AM

274. What would Judge Judy do?

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:06 AM

279. Unfortunately in some cases, no matter how mad you are at a judge, no matter how insane

or arbitrary he is, you still have to treat him with utmost respect.

Your day in court will come.

You will get an attorney.

You have to understand that our judicial system protects defendants better than most even if miserably. Generally, the problem is not our judges but the lack of public defenders, their horrible caseloads and in some cases, the lack of resources to do the research and investigation needed to win cases.

Low-level judges in my state are elected. People vote for the incumbent without research, without asking whether the judge is competent or unbiased. That is the problem. If you have a judge who is not qualified, you have to vote him down.

But once you are in the courtroom, you have to show respect or you can be subject to a contempt ruling. Most defendants are not as lucky as this woman. No matter what, she should have shown respect and asked for a public defender.

The ACLU has some videos on how to defend your rights with police officers. I don't know whether they have anything on how to conduct yourself in court, but I hope they make a video on it after this case had made the headlines.

You can't go into a courtroom and act like you do in other places. You can get into a lot of trouble if you do.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:19 AM

282. Judge is a jerk with attitude who picks on girls. A waste of our tax dollars!!!

Really, our tax dollars are being wasted, when they could be directed towards finding violent criminals or serious drug cartels, because of this judge's circus-courtroom attempt to "punish" this non-violent teenage girl who has no priors and a total of six xanax pills.

So she gets arrested for the six pills, placed in the orange jail suit, then led before the judge. He gets an attitude because she doesn't give him the canned responses he expects, so he becomes sarcastic with her, "We aren't in a nightclub now!" (he doesn't know anything about her life and whether or not she goes to nightclubs!!??) She has jewelry and a car so she admits it rather than saying "no," which is what he is expecting, so he starts losing his cool. He snaps at the public defender (the man who is asking if he could represent the girl to end the mess before it gets started). No, the judge snaps to him,"she can sell her jewelry!!" to pay for her representation and bail. This was so immature and inappropriate for a man of his age and position.

Of course Fox News had the judge propped up as an example of EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED in our criminal system. Yeah, biased, moody, pedants.

Thankfully the second judge saw through the nonsense and asked her to complete a drug program and as long as she finishes the program she can walk free. That is the type of level-headed judiciousness that we truly need.

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Response to anneboleyn (Reply #282)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:53 AM

294. Thank you

I saw it as you did, and heartily agree with your summary.

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Response to anneboleyn (Reply #282)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:26 PM

310. She's not a girl.

She's an adult woman. Whatever you think about what went on in the courtroom, let's not be sexist about it. It's demeaning and coddling to call an adult woman a "girl." And, honestly, it's a designation applied much less often to 18-year-old black women, at least in terms of giving them a break in a justice proceeding.

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Response to Nine (Reply #310)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 01:00 PM

313. Actually...

I don't think "sexism" is involved here. If she were an 18 year old male, I would call him a boy, just like I would call Miss Soto a girl.

I'm 60 years old.

From where I stand now, she is a child...a mere baby.

Yes, a girl.

I don't see people as being grown adults until they're at least 25.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 05:47 AM

284. she's a tweaker

Xanax is her drug of choice? Yeah, right. And I'm the tooth fairy. She's tweaking big time. She walked right into the jewelry question only because she didn't want to appear like a street urchin. Naive as it was her first time dressed like a pumpkin. Luckily in the 2nd video she thought before she answered the judge as to her drug of choice. She stuck with what she was caught with. Flipping the judge off? Stupid move. He was actually rather lenient after that move.

Q: What's the difference between a tweaker and a crackhead?
A: They'll both steal your wallet, but the tweaker will help you look for it.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 06:01 AM

285. SHE'S your hero?

Wow. She's an idiot.

I don't blame the judge for being exasperated by her.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 08:04 AM

298. The way she was giggling and playing with her hair...

I wanted to smack her. Yes I was cute and 18 once too but by even by then I had developed some sense of maturity and responsibility. I think she just got on his last nerve, she did mine. And yes flipping off a judge? Throw her little princess ass in jail.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:17 AM

304. Overnight in jail contimplating a 30 day sentence

Versus a overnight in jail contemplating 1 or 2 days in jail.

Which would enter her "mind" more and prove beneficial?

Hopefully she learns she is a sloppy addict/drunk and stops, at least in public.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 11:48 AM

306. "hero" WTF ...adding her to the list of football players and race car drivers. Pfffft. n/t

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:54 PM

312. Just adding to the similar comments

1. The girl was probably dumb/high or just nervous, which gave way to the laughing fits...She also strikes me as someone who never has had to face discipline at home or school, or someone who is well versed in thinking she can "talk" her way out of any situation...

2. For all those cursing the judge, I don't know a single courtroom where at least 80% of judges wouldn't have done the same, if not harsher...

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:15 PM

322. Good for the judge

When I first watched that video I was wondering if she was high, drunk, or just stupid (at 18 I fell firmly in the stupid category). I think the $5000 for a couple of Xanax was a bit harsh unless she was selling them but she got exactly what she deserved for her attitude.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:24 PM

326. Everybody loves the underdog...

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Response to reorg (Original post)

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