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Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:05 AM

Michigan women, look what GOP men have planned for you. Pic of ultrasound.

Don't know who is holding the transvaginal ultrasound instrument. He looks pretty serious about it. Just goes to show you the lack of respect these men have for women's rights.



Michigan Republicans Introduce Bill Mandating Transvaginal Ultrasound Before An Abortion

Michigan Republicans have introduced a bill requiring all women to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound before obtaining an abortion, a move that rekindles last year’s firestorm when other GOP-led states were considering similar measures.

The legislation introduced Tuesday in the state House ensures the “performance of a diagnostic ultrasound examination of the fetus at least two hours before an abortion is performed” and requires her to sign a consent form prior to the abortion. The bill was introduced by state Rep. Joel Johnson (R) and cosponsored by 22 fellow lawmakers.

Johnson was not available for comment Wednesday, but his legislative aide, Ben Frederick, confirmed to TPM that, while the legislation does not specifically mention transvaginal ultrasounds, the bill aims to require women to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound prior to receiving an abortion. Katie Carey, a spokeswoman for Michigan’s House Democratic Leader Tim Greimel, categorically said the bill would mandate transvaginal ultrasounds for women before an abortion.


An aide for Johnson confirmed it, said they already had such a bill. He said they were just refining it.

“We’ve had an ultrasound viewing option since 2006, signed into law by Gov. Granholm with support from both parties. The ultrasounds already happen as a matter of routine and diagnostic necessity. And this would simply add additional options for the patients — they could view or decline to view the images.”


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Reply Michigan women, look what GOP men have planned for you. Pic of ultrasound. (Original post)
madfloridian Feb 2013 OP
Tx4obama Feb 2013 #1
madfloridian Feb 2013 #3
wandy Feb 2013 #24
JaneyVee Feb 2013 #2
Scootaloo Feb 2013 #14
Piltdown13 Feb 2013 #23
shraby Feb 2013 #4
madfloridian Feb 2013 #13
lonestarnot Feb 2013 #5
SmileyRose Feb 2013 #8
lonestarnot Feb 2013 #10
longship Feb 2013 #6
smirkymonkey Feb 2013 #7
Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #9
prairierose Feb 2013 #18
kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #26
HiPointDem Feb 2013 #30
prairierose Feb 2013 #38
madfloridian Feb 2013 #48
AsahinaKimi Feb 2013 #51
liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #11
madfloridian Feb 2013 #12
liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #15
Justitia Feb 2013 #54
madfloridian Feb 2013 #71
AngryOldDem Feb 2013 #82
gollygee Feb 2013 #77
AngryOldDem Feb 2013 #81
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #16
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #17
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #22
madfloridian Feb 2013 #27
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #32
lunatica Feb 2013 #67
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #86
trumad Feb 2013 #64
gollygee Feb 2013 #84
DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #85
madfloridian Feb 2013 #19
RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #21
Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #29
madfloridian Feb 2013 #31
Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #34
madfloridian Feb 2013 #49
Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #50
BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2013 #46
RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #20
kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #25
pansypoo53219 Feb 2013 #28
sad-cafe Feb 2013 #33
bemildred Feb 2013 #35
Lex Feb 2013 #36
MineralMan Feb 2013 #37
madfloridian Feb 2013 #47
Bryn Feb 2013 #61
RobinA Feb 2013 #39
Brickbat Feb 2013 #40
Initech Feb 2013 #41
Bake Feb 2013 #42
Hard Assets Feb 2013 #43
polly7 Feb 2013 #44
smirkymonkey Feb 2013 #62
11 Bravo Feb 2013 #45
gordianot Feb 2013 #52
louslobbs Feb 2013 #53
madfloridian Feb 2013 #55
louslobbs Feb 2013 #70
Th1onein Feb 2013 #56
madfloridian Feb 2013 #57
Th1onein Feb 2013 #58
madfloridian Feb 2013 #69
Th1onein Feb 2013 #73
madfloridian Feb 2013 #83
Th1onein Feb 2013 #89
madfloridian Feb 2013 #90
Th1onein Feb 2013 #91
madfloridian Feb 2013 #92
Th1onein Feb 2013 #93
lunatica Feb 2013 #68
Th1onein Feb 2013 #74
lunatica Feb 2013 #75
Th1onein Feb 2013 #88
ananda Feb 2013 #87
Matariki Feb 2013 #59
Bryn Feb 2013 #60
smirkymonkey Feb 2013 #63
datasuspect Feb 2013 #65
Berlum Feb 2013 #66
emsimon33 Feb 2013 #72
bunnies Feb 2013 #76
BlueJazz Feb 2013 #78
bif Feb 2013 #79
AngryOldDem Feb 2013 #80

Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:10 AM

1. And here's a link to an additional article and image



Article here: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/02/06/1552881/michigan-transvaginal-ultrasound/





All the republican bums need to be voted out-of-office ASAP !!!

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:12 AM

3. They are exercising their power over women. Legislating medical stuff. Not their place.

It really is out of line.

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:49 AM

24. You're relay not helping the Teapublicans change their image here you know.......

Good lord that is an un nerving picture. Even for someone who has fathered and knows the true meaning of the words "don't look down".
To help with the new Teapublican messaging, I think Frank Luntz would prefer you to show a picture of a cross shaped thermometer placed under a cabbage leaf out in the 'where babys come from' cabbage patch.
YOU are showing what republicans actually mean by smaller government. That will not do.
And while you're at it please use the Spanish words for 'cabbage patch'!
Should their be any doubt

Republicans, elected by money, hated by common sense.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:11 AM

2. "small government"

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:30 AM

14. "Daddy State"

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:02 AM

23. So small it fits in your....

...ladyparts.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:16 AM

4. Making laws like that is tantamount to practicing medicine without a license.

How many of those dunderheads have a medical degree?

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Response to shraby (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:29 AM

13. Yes, I think it is.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:16 AM

5. And they've all bought stock in birka production.

Drafting a bill for required uniform of the day for the females. Spent 2 1/2 days on it just this week.

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:21 AM

8. or transvaginal ultrasound equipment

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Response to SmileyRose (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:22 AM

10. That is the deal on the whole agenda, the dough.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:19 AM

6. How are they going to debate the bill without saying "vagina"????

Remember last year when two MI woman legislators were sanctioned for daring to utter that apparently despicible word?

I would like to see and hear that floor debate.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:19 AM

7. What sick mo F***ers.

Get them the f**K out of of our bodies and our lives.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:22 AM

9. So, if I'm a woman seeking an abortion,

I've no choice but to have this device shoved up inside me. Against my will. By anyone's definition, that's called rape.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:43 AM

18. This is state mandated rape.....call it what it is...

I am really tired of seeing these bills introduced in different states. Does anyone know if these are ALEC bills?

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Response to prairierose (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:07 AM

26. The phrase forcible sodomy with a blunt object comes to mind.

Truly, these are some sick minds behind these laws. Utterly sick and depraved.

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Response to prairierose (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:20 AM

30. good question. i find this:

 

A cursory check of the ALEC website reveals no legislation specific to transvaginal ultrasounds or other anti-abortion bills.

But you have to look CLOSER.

Success, as they say, breeds success. Whether fostered and funded by ALEC, I do not know, but an organization calling itself the Bioethics Defense Fund (Law in the Service of Life)--has followed the blueprint put forth by ALEC on the corporate level and applied it to the Right-wing Right-to-Life legion.

Like Alec, BDF offers not just "models" for the kinds of oppressive laws we've seen in the past few weeks, but also offers legal guidance in order to enable a cooperating state legislator to tailor the model law to that of his or her own state:

http://deaniemills.com/2012/02/28/the-vast-rightwing-conspiracy-55.aspx


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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #30)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:28 PM

38. Thank you, HiPointDem, I knew there had to be a hand of evil....

somewhere behind all these bills that are so much alike. I had looked around ALECexposed but couldn't find anything that applied and I was sure there was some billionaire-funded group of rwnjs writing this legislation. I will bookmark the site you have liked for further research.

You do good work.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:25 PM

51. Agree..

There is such a thing as a patients bill of rights. You can't make a medical procedure mandatory.. it could also be considered torture as well.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:23 AM

11. I have to have those for preventative cancer screenings.

They're not painful, but they are uncomfortable and embarrassing. Of course when it comes to reproductive health we ladies are use to uncomfortable and embarrassing. But to force women to have these in the hopes of convincing them to have the baby is just insulting, wastes money, and is an invasion of privacy.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:27 AM

12. They are necessary at times, should be prescribed by a doctor.

That is between a woman and her doctor. I talked to a woman who had them for other reasons, and they were painful for her.

This is a political circus that is abusing women's rights. The politicians need to butt out.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:31 AM

15. exactly. It should be between the doctor and the patient. No one else.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:54 PM

54. For me, they are VERY painful, I bleed for days.

They are very intrusive & each time I am brought to tears by the experience.

The fact that my state now requires them to shame & punish women against their will MAKES ME CRAZY!

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Response to Justitia (Reply #54)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 05:23 PM

71. Thanks for that comment. This is a medical procedure to be prescribed by a doctor...not politicians

It is shameful that they are using this for political gain. It's a valuable procedure when needed, but this is complete intrusion on womens' rights.

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Response to Justitia (Reply #54)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:08 PM

82. I am SO sorry.



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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:50 AM

77. I've had this kind of ultrasound too

And it's one thing to have one if you're trying to get information about a wanted pregnancy. It's another if you're a rape victim, you know? I can't even imagine being forced to submit to that after being raped in order to be able to have an abortion.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 12:01 PM

81. I've had two pregnancy-related ones.

I say without shame that they were by far the worst experiences of my life, and mine (like yours) were medically indicated. That's why I'm so infuriated by clueless lawmakers forcing women who want to exercise their legal right to go through these for no other reason than to punish and humiliate.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:31 AM

16. Simply disgusting and offensive. Hope it doesn't pass, but if it does it should be vetoed. n/t.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:34 AM

17. Overreach on gun control,

And there's going to be a lot more of these guys in office. Just saying...

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:54 AM

22. Is that a threat??? Well we are done being threatened by

bullies and jackbooted christofascist thugs.

The bullies had best watch their backs and their food. Women have had just about enough. You pull this anti-woman crap and lock us in the kitchen, and we'll still have the knives and herb lore.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:39 AM

27. Sounded like one to me.

No more of that, right? Enough.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:26 AM

32. It is simple reality.

The GOP overreached with the war on women and teabagger agenda. They were certain they had a moral high ground. Voters rejected them as extremists, turning what appeared to be a victory for the GOP into a victory for the Democratic Party.
Now Democrats face a similar problem. A vocal minority is pushing an agenda that is going to be perceived by voters as extremist. Embracing them will lead to an election day bloodbath...putting a bunch of people like cited in the OP in power. Is that what you want?

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:09 AM

67. Your logic is pure fallacy

No one in government has any intention of taking your guns away. But you may have to get a license and a background check and you may have to register your firearms. Just like you do with your car.

How is that the same as having the state government passing a law to stick a transvaginal wand into you because you were raped and it resulted in a pregnancy that you want to terminate or because a pregnancy will kill you?

If you think they're the same thing you're thinking is fucked up.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #67)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:29 PM

86. Not at all.

No gun control legislation affects me in the least, since I don't own any, and never have. I do have hobbies that have varying degrees of govt regulation...some of which is reasonable, and some of which is simply attacking easy targets for no real purpose.
That is how gun control will be examined by voters. That which is directed at keeping guns out of the hands of those who will (or already have) use them illegally will be considered reasonable, and will get broad support. Those that appear to just target gun owners, and will have little to no effect on gun deaths, will be perceived as unreasonable and pandering to an extremist group...Just like the vaginal ultrasound probe bill was.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 06:06 AM

64. Douchebag post of the year so far.

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Response to trumad (Reply #64)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:18 PM

84. +1

"You want us to have to undergo background checks to buy a gun? We'll allow the state to mandate rapes if you want an abortion."

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #17)


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:44 AM

19. Don't miss this paragraph. They call it "medical necessity". No, it is not.

"“We’ve had an ultrasound viewing option since 2006, signed into law by Gov. Granholm with support from both parties. The ultrasounds already happen as a matter of routine and diagnostic necessity. And this would simply add additional options for the patients — they could view or decline to view the images.”

Bipartisan bill that already exists as an option, supported by both parties? Signed by Dem governor?

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:51 AM

21. That stood out to me too.

If that were true, it would be done per the doctor's orders. Why the need for legislation?

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:12 AM

29. Ultrasounds are certainly not a medical necessity.

I have three kids and I never had one.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:30 AM

31. I just read this about Wisconsin law. It's a right wing thing, keeps women in their place. I guess.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:35 AM

34. That's terrible.

I'm glad I live in a state where abortions are still relatively easy and safe, although we do have a parental notification law that was recently passed regarding teenagers. There are some ideologues, ALEC types, in our legislature who would like to change that, but I think it would be a big lift for them. Abortions have been legal here since before Roe v. Wade because of our constitution's privacy clause.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:10 PM

49. That surprises me about Alaska, was not aware of that.

I know FL and our Rick Scott Republicans have done quite a job on women's rights. Not sure of the exact status now of the ultrasound. We fought back on one several years ago and won.

I would have to look it up to be sure.

I know we have the parental notification law.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:18 PM

50. The parental notification law was put on the ballot here

during the primary election in 2010. That's when Joe Miller won the R primary for Senate over Lisa Murkowski because all the fundies came out for the abortion thing. When the general rolled around, Lisa was able to win her write-in because Joe was too extreme. Lisa was always pro-choice when she was a state rep. She's gone a little rightward since being a US senator, but I think she's still basically pro-choice.

The privacy clause in Alaska's constitution is very strong. It's also why we've had basically legal marijuana here since the 1975 Ravin v. State case.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 07:34 PM

46. yeah that's aa typical repuke turn of phrase.

Oh it's SIMPLY giving patients more options. Look or don't look. They already do it so nooooooooo worrrrries, ladies.


Women, vote these POS' s out f office.

And maybe we should collect pictures of what happens to women when they're barred from safe, accessible abortion services. Start waving them around to show these self-righteous pricks why Roe v Wade was passed in the first place: TO SAVE WOMEN'S LIVES.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:49 AM

20. Diagnostic Necessity?

Okay, great. If that's true, the doc prescribes it. They're just admitting that the legislation is superfluous bullshit.

Hypocrites . Where is the 'keep government out of my healthcare!' crowd of lunatics now?

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:03 AM

25. the "Roscoe T. Arbuckle Forcible Sodomy In Exchange For Abortion Services Act of 2006"

I believe was the full title of the bill in question.

Doc should have to demonstrate it on himself first.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:56 AM

28. the GOP needs that rammed up their ass.

but i bet most would enjoy that.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:29 AM

33. that looks nasty

 

what an image.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:47 AM

35. Soon to be all the rage in pornography. nt

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:49 AM

36. Rape by medical device.

Basically. The "consent" is coerced, so it isn't consent at all.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:51 AM

37. Michigan women, and all women, should unite

and vote every damned Republican out of office at the next election. They have that ability, and they should use it. Such a thing would put an end to this bullshit once and for all, nationwide.

"Women of Michigan: Republican Legislators Want to Stick Something Inorganic in Your Vagina. Vote for Democrats and Send a Message."

The ad should feature that doctor, holding that instrument. A very clear message.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #37)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:59 PM

47. Yep, it does send a clear message.

Would make a great ad.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:51 AM

61. I just tweeted this

to "Women of Arkansas". We, too, are having same problem here in AR. Thanks

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:40 PM

39. Does This Sort Of Thing

make anyone else want to go out and commit violence? Maybe it's just my antidepressant kicking in.



(to any government spies present - no, I'm not going to do anything)

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:43 PM

40. Remind me again about how single-payer health care is bad because the government gets between a

person and her doctor.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:20 PM

41. The anti choicers are going full cave man.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:55 PM

42. Did these dumbasses not see what happened in Virginia? Did they miss the 2012 election?

Geez ...

Bake

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:20 PM

43. These lawmakers needs to be charged a felony

 

For impersonating a doctor.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:27 PM

44. I'd take that thing and shove it down his fricking throat. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 06:00 AM

62. LOL!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 04:37 PM

45. If someone attempted to insert that thing into my wife without her express permission ...

I would shove it so far down their mother-fucking throat that they would be able to enjoy their very own trans-duodenal ultrasound.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:40 PM

52. Keep this up GOP and wonder why you are no longer distrusted but hated!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:47 PM

53. Wouldn't this device disturb all of the mini fetuses implanted in the uterus from those women who

are taking contraceptives? Why should they be disturbed by this device being shoved into the place where they reside in the womb? Shouldn't these fetuses have some rights to not be disturbed by this large, bulbous device imposing itself into their peaceful environment?
Sarcasm of course.
Lou

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Response to louslobbs (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:09 AM

55. Ha ha.

OMG that is so weird. Thanks for sharing.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #55)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:41 PM

70. Sure, sorry I had to go there, but these people have lost it..

Lou

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:51 AM

56. i am pro-life; anti-abortion, but this is just wrong. eom

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #56)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:55 AM

57. I am for a woman, her doctor, and her family making a medical decision.

I think most women decide wisely and carefully. Politics has no place like this in personal reproductive decisions. Yes, it is just wrong to force something like this.

I am pro-life, I am pro-choice. I think the labels have been misused.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #57)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:06 AM

58. If abortion is legal; it should be easily accessed. Period.

I don't believe it should be legal, but it is. That's a fact. This kind of procedure with these vaginal probes is just a method of torture, in my opinion.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 12:36 PM

69. What do you think about instances like this?

This is alarming.

When a "conscience clause" can allow a woman to die.

During her stay at the M. Pierogow Regional Specialist Hospital in Łódź in August 2004, the doctor refused to perform a full endoscopy. He stated that “my conscience does not allow me to do this,” but did not formalize his objection or direct the patient to another doctor. The doctor justified not performing a full endoscopy by referring to his fear of endangering the life of the fetus. At the end of August 2004 mother of the woman and the woman's fiancée urged the doctor at the clinic in Łódź to commence any necessary treatment, irrespective of the consequences for the life of the fetus, to save the woman’s life. This was in vain. Why? Because the doctors were more concerned about the fetus. The woman lost the fetus on 5 September 2004. It was removed and the doctors removed an abscess. But then it was too late for intervention to help her. On 29 September 2004 she died of septic shock caused by sepsis.


More from the US

Executive Order -- Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act's Consistency with Longstanding Restrictions on the Use of Federal Funds for Abortion

The Act maintains current Hyde Amendment restrictions governing abortion policy and extends those restrictions to the newly created health insurance exchanges. Under the Act, longstanding Federal laws to protect conscience (such as the Church Amendment, 42 U.S.C. 300a-7, and the Weldon Amendment, section 508(d)(1) of Public Law 111-8) remain intact and new protections prohibit discrimination against health care facilities and health care providers because of an unwillingness to provide, pay for, provide coverage of, or refer for abortions.



This is an interesting case.

Our medical experts have determined that your life was not in danger and you could have carried the pregnancy to term. And, by the way, you owe us $9,000.”

Her voice breaking, D.J. Feldman, a Washington, D.C. federal employee, recently spoke to the press about her struggles with her insurance company after she aborted a much-desired pregnancy because of a fetal diagnosis of anencephaly (the absence of a major portion of the brain, skull and scalp). The insurance would only cover abortion in the case of rape, incest or a threat to her life, so the fact that if Feldman had continued the pregnancy, it would have been both physically and emotionally grueling—resulting either in a fetal demise, a stillbirth, or a live birth of a newborn who would quickly die—had no effect on the insurance company’s decision.

The primary culprit in this situation is not really Feldman’s insurance carrier, however, but the U.S. Congress. For decades it has imposed such unconscionable restrictions on abortion coverage for federal employees, as well as on women in the military, Native Americans using government provided health facilities and women on Medicaid in a majority of states.


Or this slippery slope of being a "pro-life nation"

More than a dozen countries have liberalized their abortion laws in recent years, including South Africa, Switzerland, Cambodia and Chad. In a handful of others, including Russia and the United States (or parts of it), the movement has been toward criminalizing more and different types of abortions. In South Dakota, the governor recently signed the most restrictive abortion bill since the Supreme Court ruled in 1973, in Roe v. Wade, that state laws prohibiting abortion were unconstitutional. The South Dakota law, which its backers acknowledge is designed to test Roe v. Wade in the courts, forbids abortion, including those cases in which the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest. Only if an abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother is the procedure permitted. A similar though less restrictive bill is now making its way through the Mississippi Legislature.


Or this story of the guy who could have been president.

Mitt Romney's pregnancy problem

Sheldon, a mother of four at the time (a fifth child had died as an infant), was then a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), outside of Boston. The LDS leader in Massachusetts at that time, called the "stake president," was a Harvard-trained physician, Dr. Gordon Williams, and he counseled Sheldon to follow her doctor's advice to terminate the pregnancy and protect her own life, so that she could continue caring for her four living children.

...According to an account later written anonymously by Sheldon for the LDS women's journal, Exponent II, it was after receiving this counsel from her Williams supporting the potentially life-saving procedure that she experienced an uninvited visit in her hospital from her Mormon bishop at the time, 36-year-old Mitt Romney, who adamantly opposed the abortion.

"He regaled me with stories of his sister and her retarded child and what a blessing the child had been to the family," Sheldon wrote of the incident. "He told me that 'as your bishop, my concern is with the child.'"


More from Romney

There was no empathy forthcoming from Romney, according to Sheldon, no warmth or sympathy. Moreover, Sheldon contends, Romney cast doubt on her story about the stake president's approval. He simply didn't believe her. He threatened to call him and track him down. He didn't seem to care a lick about her personal well-being.



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Response to madfloridian (Reply #69)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:43 AM

73. A little too diverse to comment on in one post.

You know, a zealot is a zealot. And their "solutions" are usually idiotic.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #73)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:15 PM

83. But all of the links are about controlling women's reproductive choices.

It's what extremism does in the long run.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #83)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:11 PM

89. I'm not saying that these people are not zealots; extremists.

In fact, that's exactly what I did say about them. But, aside from that, I'm not sure what other thread runs through them all.

However, I suspect that I don't look at these instances the same way that you do, because I don't see it through the issue of controlling women's reproductive choices. Anything can be taken to the extreme, whether it's pro-life or pro-choice.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #89)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:35 PM

90. Of course it is a reproductive choice. It should be her choice, not what someone else believes.

I don't think anyone else has a right to dictate these decisions.

This area, like that of education, has been subject to right wing propaganda for so long that it has tainted what should be a very clear life decision for a woman and her doctor.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #90)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 10:19 PM

91. That is your framing of it.

Pro-lifers frame it differently, and I, for one, think of it not as a reproductive choice, but as a right to life. I do understand your point of view, however much I disagree with it.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #91)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:17 PM

92. A right of life for which one? It often comes down to that.

That's what I was showing you in the links I posted. The church's belief nor the belief of any religion or group should allow a woman to die because she is giving birth.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 12:14 AM

93. When it comes to a woman losing her life or giving birth, I choose abortion, of course.

I think that anyone who doesn't is a zealot. And a nut.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #56)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 07:17 AM

68. You mean you're anti-choice right?

Because the phrase is 'pro-choice', not pro-abortion.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #68)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 01:49 AM

74. I'm pro-life. You're pro-choice.

Whatever.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #74)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:46 AM

75. There's a difference

and I'm not trying to pick a fight.

When I got pregnant I had a choice. Like most women I chose to keep the baby, but it was not without some deep thought about the consequences of that choice. I knew that it would change my life completely. I was not married and I was poor and I was forced to think about what kind of life I could give the baby. At the time it meant I had to quite college and get work that could give me the opportunity to make a living to support myself and my child and I knew that it would mean getting a lousy job. Whatever plans I had for a career and economic success were gone.

But I had a choice. No one tried to force me to do anything. My parents were supportive of any choice I made. And in essence that is the crux of this entire debate because none of us has the right to choose for others. It's that simple. All you or I or anyone else has is the choices we make for ourselves only. It's a fundamental human right.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #75)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 06:06 PM

88. Lunatica, I understand your point of view.

But, I do not agree with it. It is not mine. I see things differently.

And it is not that I am not willing, or able, to understand your point of view. I am. And, I work very hard to try to come around to that point of view, because I give a shit. I am a woman, too. I am a Democrat, but not a one-issue Democrat. The stand that most Democrats take on abortion does not deter me from voting a straight Democratic ticket, because I consider myself pro-life, in all regards. And the Rethugs plans usually end in death for many, whether it's wars, poverty, racism, etc.

I have been on this forum for eight years, and unlike many here, I have never chosen not to speak my mind on this issue. I don't hide in the shadows, hijacking threads, or spewing bullshit, or disrupting. I have not arrived at my views on this issue without much thought, or reason.

But I disagree with you. I am anti-war, anti-abortion, anti-death penalty. All for the same reason. If someone could prove to me that life does not begin at conception, or at least prove WHEN it does begin, I would support abortion AT that point.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #56)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:34 PM

87. I'm pro choice, not pro abortion.

This is so wrong and should be completely illegal.

It's tantamount to rape, and it takes medical practice decisions out of the hands of doctors and their patients where these decisions should be made.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 03:15 AM

59. Jezus. They should all be required to have urethra sounds before proposing such legislation

See if their 'heads' are clear.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 04:18 AM

60. We're fighting this in Arkansas, too

here's a letter that's well written by someone from "Stop the War on Women in Arkansas" facebook to AR rep: (with her permission and she asks that we copy to rep in our counties)

Allen Kerr, Rep for District 32 (R aka good freakin' luck)

Representative Kerr,

I urge you to vote NAY when SB134 (the Fetal Heartbeat Protection Act) comes up for a vote in the house. This would be one of the most strict abortion laws in the country. I've attached a peer-reviewed medical article in regards to this. Consider, sir, this study (the second attachment down) conducted by the World Health Organization and published in The Lancet. In localities where abortion is illegal, abortion rates do not go down. They are comparable to countries where abortion is legal. Further, septic abortion (which leads to massive infection and, often, death) and other complications of unsafe abortion are the leading cause of maternal mortality in areas where abortion is outlawed. Basically, women still seek abortion procedures, and in the shadow of criminalized behavior, many of these procedures go horribly wrong. Recall when abortion was illegal in the U.S. Women like Gerri Santoro, who feared for her life at the hands of an abuser when she fell pregnant, died as a result of unsafe illegal abortion procedures. Her two daughters were left motherless. There were many others. You are not saving babies, Representative Kerr. You are, in effect, sentencing those babies AND those mothers (who often already have children they are raising) to possible maiming, sterilization, or death. You are hurting mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, and their families. A woman's healthcare choices should remain between a woman, her doctor, and her God. Please reconsider your position and stay out of these very personal choices. Further, please do not vote for a bill that will, ultimately, cost the State time and money in litigation due to its violation of the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Additionally, I am aware that you voted in favor of The Insurance Exchange Abortion Band and the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act. I am disheartened that my Representative would waste time and my tax dollars by approving of such REDUNDANT (in the case of HB1100) and UNCONSTITUTIONAL (in the case of HB1037) legislation. As one of these bills is obviously unconstitutional, the time and cost of imminent litigation is wasteful. As a scientist and a childbirth professional, I am appalled that you would vote in favor of such an unscientific bill as HB1037. I have attached a peer-reviewed scientific article published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. The medical literature states that the response of a fetus to a noxious stimulus is quite similar to the response of a fetus to ANY stimulus. The neural connections that are crucial components of the brain's pain-processing software are not developed until at least viability, even as late as weeks 29-30. You, sir, have not done your homework and I am absolutely appalled that you would venture to speak for a family's healthcare choice on such unscientific and unconstitutional grounds.

Please stand up for the women of Arkansas and their families. You may not be a woman, but it is your job to represent us. WE elected you. Please vote NO on SB134.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 06:02 AM

63. K&R

My head is spinning. I absolutely can't believe it has gotten to this point.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 06:38 AM

65. state sanctioned rape

 

dear god in heaven.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 06:40 AM

66. Wow

That's some soul-sick ugly stuff these patriarchal peewits have in mind

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 06:05 PM

72. There is something very wrong with Republican men: ED perhaps!!!!!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:50 AM

76. Its rape.

plain and simple. I'm sorry but forcing a woman to have something jammed in her vagina that she DOES NOT WANT is rape. Fucking assholes.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:52 AM

79. Michigan used to be a pretty progressive state

It's sad what it's turned into.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:57 AM

80. State-sanctioned rape.

And we jump on OTHER countries for torture???

Yep, ladies and gents, that's exactly what that heinous probe looks like. And, to add to the fun, the woman has to insert it HERSELF until the tech (or whoever is doing it) can take over and manipulate it until they get the images they want. Kind of like a divining rod shoved up your vagina. And if it bumps an organ -- it's painful as all hell.

There are NO words for how I feel about transvaginal ultrasounds, and I can just imagine the emotional scarring that some women will suffer if they are forced to have one of these for no good damn reason.

Let's call it what it is: Cruel and punishing, and if these asshat lawmakers think that after having one a woman will change her mind -- again...there are NO words.


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