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Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:09 PM

When they say it isn't about the sex, it is about the sex and when people say criticism of fat

people is about health, it isn't. It's about hatred. Fat people are acceptable to hate. We are lazy, we should be ashamed of our eating habits, we are slothful and dirty. Oh, people pretend it is about health. It really is all about saving us from ourselves. It isn't that they are the Gladys Kravits of their time. They are just trying to save us from ourselves by shaming us. If there is a difference between them and Tony Perkins in terms of gays I don't know what it is. Both claim they are trying to save me from my self. Both claim I am living an unhealthy lifestyle that will lead to an early death. And both claim that only by shaming me can they save me. For the record I am gay and decidedly over weight probably obese by bmi standards.

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Reply When they say it isn't about the sex, it is about the sex and when people say criticism of fat (Original post)
dsc Feb 2013 OP
REP Feb 2013 #1
msongs Feb 2013 #2
dsc Feb 2013 #3
Tien1985 Feb 2013 #5
Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #6
wickerwoman Feb 2013 #31
SmileyRose Feb 2013 #44
Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #4
libodem Feb 2013 #7
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #22
libodem Feb 2013 #28
PDJane Feb 2013 #35
libodem Feb 2013 #40
smokey nj Feb 2013 #49
libodem Feb 2013 #50
smokey nj Feb 2013 #51
R B Garr Feb 2013 #8
liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #16
wickerwoman Feb 2013 #25
Rainforestgoddess Feb 2013 #42
Mariana Feb 2013 #47
bluestateguy Feb 2013 #39
R B Garr Feb 2013 #46
David Zephyr Feb 2013 #9
BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2013 #24
FLyellowdog Feb 2013 #10
dsc Feb 2013 #11
eggplant Feb 2013 #34
David Zephyr Feb 2013 #12
FLyellowdog Feb 2013 #15
liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #18
FLyellowdog Feb 2013 #20
Tumbulu Feb 2013 #36
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #23
FLyellowdog Feb 2013 #29
SmileyRose Feb 2013 #45
FLyellowdog Feb 2013 #48
smokey nj Feb 2013 #52
treestar Feb 2013 #13
BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2013 #27
liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #14
Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #17
liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #19
Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #21
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #26
bluestateguy Feb 2013 #30
demwing Feb 2013 #32
dsc Feb 2013 #33
ohheckyeah Feb 2013 #37
hibbing Feb 2013 #38
liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #43
fadedrose Feb 2013 #41
ecstatic Feb 2013 #53

Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:17 PM

1. I'm just saying this for your own good ...

... a-fucking-men.

Love and concern aren't shown by shaming and denigrating someone. Ever.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:18 PM

2. I have never met anyone who HATES "fat people" and Ive been around awhile nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:22 PM

3. Oh really?

Ever been to a playground. And here is a post filled with the milk of human kindness. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2325878

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:26 PM

5. I've not even been around

30 yrs and I've seen quite a few people who hate "fat people". Not discounting your experience, but just because you haven't seen it...

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:26 PM

6. You probably aren't fat.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:11 PM

31. +1

I've met many.

And several studies have shown fat people are less likely to be hired, less likely to be promoted, are paid less, receive less affection and attention from parents and teachers, etc.

It's not just about "hate". There's a large spectrum between being treated like a normal person and being actively hated and harrassed and many points along it are quite harmful. It's very common for people to look straight through you or act like you don't exist when you're fat and that's nearly as bad as being called names or lectured.

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Response to wickerwoman (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:25 AM

44. +1

invisible is insanely painful

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:26 PM

4. Spot on.

That's why the Chris Christie jokes are especially painful to the obese observer. He has been perhaps one of the most vile people politically. His CV is rife with opportunity to direct our liberal hatred, yet still to most people his defining, most retching characteristic is his obesity.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:35 PM

7. But you have such a pretty face

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Response to libodem (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:52 PM

22. Bwah! AND a jovial personality!

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:07 PM

28. exactly

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Response to libodem (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:40 PM

35. Sigh. If I had a nickel for every time someone said that to me.........

I've also been asked if I really need whatever it is I'm eating, shouldn't I get more exercise, and I've known people who assume that fat people are mentally challenged....I swear that I thought one guy from the US was going to faint because I spoke English and knew the equipment. Irritated the hell out of me.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #35)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:10 AM

40. It is a particularly

Heinous prejudice. People are ignorant and mean under the guise of being helpful.

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Response to libodem (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:03 AM

49. If I had a dime for every time I heard that while I was growing up, I'd be a freakin' billionaire.

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Response to smokey nj (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:09 AM

50. Tiresome isn't it

That book, Fat is a Feminist Issue, was right on.

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Response to libodem (Reply #50)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:12 AM

51. Tiresome doesn't even begin to describe it.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:40 PM

8. I don't think what you are saying is entirely true about the shaming

There is medical evidence that does directly relate to obesity being a main contributing factor for disease(s) that can and do lead to early death. I guess defining "early death" is the hard part, because how are any of us to say what our "timely" death will be except what the actuary tables say. But in objective terms, the extra weight does contribute to inflamation in the body which leads to complications which are the precursers for debilitating diseases that are generally avoidable or controllable otherwise without the extra weight.

For instance, an aunt of mine just died a couple weeks ago due to complications from diabetes which was a direct result of her obesity. She was almost 10 years younger than her sisters who have been a thin/normal weight their whole lives. So in those terms, my aunt's death could be considered "early" since she has two surviving sisters who are 10 years and 18 (or so) years older than she was, neither of whom has been obese.

I do get your bigger point, though. There are certainly many hostile and a crappy things people say about overweight individuals, and they are very real when they are happening to you so I'm sure you are not imagining anything.

I've recently lost 40 pounds and returned to a more svelte figure that I was used to for most of my life. I can't believe the difference in how people treat me from compared to when I was heavier even in the simplest of ways. People open doors for me, cars stop more and wait for me to cross in front of them, people smile at me more and notice me more. The difference could also be me to a certain extent because I felt almost invisible when I was heavier, and I guess I acted that way, too. Anyway, everyone's journey with their weight is a personal one, and we each have our own motivations. I agree with you that health seems to be the PC way to address someone elses weight (as if it's their business), but I wouldn't say that it's done just for shaming purposes.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:19 PM

16. weight loss is like religion

You have to experience it for yourself. Telling someone they should do such and such because of this or that does not work. It has to be something someone wants to do for themselves. If they decide to do it, they will do it because they want to do it and they will seek out the help they need. They don't need people evangelizing to them. If you know someone who has decided to lose weight and asks you for help I say go for it, but evangelizing to people who don't want it does not work and it even hurts just like people evangelizing religion hurts. And your comments about how people treat you proves the OPs point. People should be kind to one another no matter someone's size, color, age, etc.... But the opposite is true. People treat people who are overweight unkindly. That is what the OP is talking about and that is what should change.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:06 PM

25. +1

Any quick path to weight-loss is seen as "cheating" because losing weight is not about health in our society. It's about virtue.

If a pill came out tomorrow that made everyone overnight normal weight, there are people who would try to block it because that's not the "right way to do it". Unless you're exerting will power and fighting through pain then you don't deserve to lose weight and hence be treated like a "normal" human being.

Some people simply cannot lose weight because of medications they are on or other metabolic reasons or life circumstances. Judging them as "lazy" or "weak" or "greedy pigs" or lecturing them about "all you have to do is eat right and exercise" is shockingly cruel but rarely called out as such.

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Response to wickerwoman (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:12 AM

42. There has been very interesting research

Done in dogs that show entirely different gene expression in overweight littermates compared to ideal weight littermates. It becomes almost impossible for the overweight dogs to lose the extra pounds without them feeling deprived. Owners have a very difficult time, because in a laboratory setting, restricted diets work, but at home, the dog will drive them crazy with begging.

So it's not just about self control. It's not just about calories in and calories out. It's about rewiring your gene expression. There's a new weight loss food for dogs that has amazing potential as it actually changes that expression back to that of an ideal weight animal. If they can duplicate the synergistic effects in a supplement for humans.... (personally, the kibble doesn't look too appetising)

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Response to wickerwoman (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:55 AM

47. "If a pill came out tomorrow..."

I believe you're absolutely right about that.

To see examples of that kind of thinking, see any thread posted by someone who has quit smoking by switching to e-cigs. You'd expect people to be pleased when anyone stops smoking. And, most people who respond to such a post will be happy for the person, and offer encouragement and congratulations. There are always some, however, who have to come in and give the person a hard time, saying snarky shit like, "so when are you going to quit?", or remind the ex-smoker that they're still addicted (as if they don't know that), or tell them that "cold turkey is the only way", and so on. It's obvious that it pisses them off when a smoker can quit without suffering.

We'd see exactly the same kind of reaction from those types if someone invented an easy and painless way to lose weight.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:08 AM

39. Ah yes

Just a few weeks ago, I was at a coffee shop and saw a young man hold the door open for a thin pretty young woman. Just like a real gentleman.

RIGHT BEHIND HER was a fat, frumpy looking woman of about the same age, and the guy let the door slam in her face.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:48 AM

46. yes, I didn't realize this thread was related to another one

I thought the OP was ruminating about a recent set of personal experiences and trying to come to terms with them and promoting miscellaneous comments or observations.

But, yes, it's not ideal or helpful to lecture people about their weight; however, the context is important. if Dr.'s are telling you have a problem, to me that's something that should be taken seriously. My point was that my aunt never took the doctor's advise, and she paid the ultimate price. Now, if some petty people are just trying to one-up you by putting you down, that's something we all have to grapple with and they won['t stop at your weight if they are that unkind. Those are definitely people to avoid at all costs.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:53 PM

9. K&R.

You hit a nail on the head.

I live here in Los Angeles, land of the "beautiful people", and finally I am happy to say that the psychological, cruel abuse directed at children and adults because of their weight is finally being called out for hate that it is.

Your OP is spot on the mark.

As a kid, I was the skinniest one in every grade. As an adult into my thirties, I was 6'2" and weighed only 129 pounds! With hair to my shoulders, I looked like a broomstick. Thankfully, my metabolism slowed and I hefted up. I love my acquired weight.

Being picked on, singled out whether one is big or small is just shitty. I hate it.

And yes, I can always spot the jackass (male or female) who uses "health concerns" to hurt other people's feelings. People that are over-weight (whatever that means) are already aware of it because they are reminded of it every day of their lives and don't need anyone's "concern" voiced to them than their physician. A real "friend" would never go there.

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Response to David Zephyr (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:03 PM

24. exactly like the phony jesuslovesyou crap spewers

Who use religion to permit themselves the joy of cruelty. Ugh. Yecch.

I've been a bit chunky from time to time and even that trivial thing attracted cruelty on occasion. The self loathing sticks around.

But what I've witnessed a couple of obese girlfriends have to endure was awful. When it happend as kids, I was also a bully target so we were both cowed into silence. (That long ago friend showed up on FB. Turns out she works for Exxon and is a member of the Thank You George W Bush FB club!!!! Yecch.)

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:57 PM

10. The only time my best friend ever hurt my feelings

was when she told me if I'd lose a few pounds I'd really have a knock-out body. (That was last year...mind you, I'll be 67 this Saturday. So, maybe she was "trying" to give me a compliment.) Then she added that she just wanted me to be healthy. She told me that good friends can say those kinds of things to each other. Well, no, they can't. Not to me.

So, I've been noticing ever since then that she really does seem to have a prejudice against people of weight. She's a cute 5 foot 2 eyes of blue type of gal who has never had to worry about weight. So she has no idea...

Yes, I'm over-weight...I know that...I see myself everyday...But if I have to live every day of my life feeling deprived of a basic need, of being hungry every minute of the day, of not enjoying the foods that I like, of exercising to the point of exhaustion, then living longer doesn't seem like the right choice for me. It's not like I'll be able to look back after I die and say, "Wow, I should have starved myself so I could live longer. Bummer."

Until someone has experienced eating a full dinner and being hungry again in half an hour, they don't know how difficult controlling one's hunger is. To me, it'd be the same as telling me I'm breathing too much oxygen and to reduce my intake. It just ain't gonna happen.

People seem to have to find someone else to feel superior to and this is just another prejudice. If the worst thing I do in my life is carry extra pounds, I'd say I've done alright.

Yes, I wish I were born to be thin, but I wasn't. Maybe next time. And wealthy...I'd like to be wealthy too.

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Response to FLyellowdog (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:05 PM

11. and for all the talk about how unhealthy fat people are

many people die of wasting diseases so it seems that being somewhat over weight going in would be an advantage.

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Response to dsc (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:28 PM

34. when the ice age comes, the skinny ones are going to be fucked. ;-) n/t

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Response to FLyellowdog (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:06 PM

12. I like you.

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Response to David Zephyr (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:19 PM

15. I thought you'd never notice!!!!

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Response to FLyellowdog (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:45 PM

18. very well said

You sound like a wonderful person. I too am overweight and completely understand the feeling hungry again soon after eating. Some people will come on here and say well if you just do this, if you just do that. Well how about if they just try and use a little more compassion instead of saying well if you just do this then. That would be a welcome change. And I too feel if the worst thing I do in life is carry a little extra weight then I haven't done too bad.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:47 PM

20. You rock!!!!nt

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:46 PM

36. I love your post!

I used to be underweight ( most of my adult life) and recently am a bit over normal but feel huge. But I am also aware that I am finally allowing myself to slow down, eat a bit more and enjoy life by resting a bit more. As i have aged I am sleeping fewer hours and this also adds to one's weight. It actually feels really good and I agree that the picking on the overweight is really just people being mean .

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Response to FLyellowdog (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:55 PM

23. And be happy with your birthday cake, too! :-)

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:08 PM

29. And ice cream.

I actually remember who Winky Dink was. I had the plastic film and crayons used on the tv screen when I was a kid. And yes, that was a looooooooong time ago.

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Response to FLyellowdog (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:31 AM

45. I needed your post

thank you so very much

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Response to SmileyRose (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:01 AM

48. You are most welcome.

Stay away from people who steal your joy.

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Response to FLyellowdog (Reply #48)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:18 AM

52. "Stay away from people who steal your joy"

LOVE IT!

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:06 PM

13. One thing I wonder about the health thing

I noticed that if for example, a fat person has a bad knee, it's because of their weight. If a thin person has a bad knee, it's something else. So I wonder how much of the alleged health issues are simple attribution of anything wrong with fat people to their weight.

I ate a lot less healthy when I was thin, too. Some of it is down to just age.

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Response to treestar (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:07 PM

27. very true.

And often overlooked.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:09 PM

14. thank you!

I am overweight and not ashamed of it. I don't care how many people try to make me feel bad about it. And you are completely right. People mask hatred with concern. My dad was concerned I was going to burn in hell because I was not a Christian so he tried to convert me endless number of times. It never worked. And no amount of shaming will make me lose weight either.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:35 PM

17. Be careful how you reply to this thread.

This comes up with regularity, and a lot of posters get in a bit of trouble by being flippant or mean.

The finger will be on the alert button and looking for any excuse.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:46 PM

19. this thread was very likely a response to a cruel thread that was already created.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:47 PM

21. No doubt.

I think, however, that my warning was fair.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:07 PM

26. Thank you very much...

Rarely are people concerned about the health of people that aren't overweight. Yet, people of normal weights can have: cancer, diabetes, liver disease, celiac disease, joint problems, heart conditions, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, insomnia (which can lead to a host of other problems), lung disease, and be skinny fat which is worse than being fat-fat.

But, when someone is a normal weight people just assume they are healthy. Unless the normal weight person brings up their health issues, no one is concerned. But, if someone is overweight it is just assumed that they will have many of the health issues mentioned above and then some.

Being overweight is often a symptom of other problems. I think it's better to go after and treat the real underlying problems than to attack a person for being obese. If they have high blood pressure treat that, if diabetic treat that, heart disease, etc... Going on a diet that is healthier doesn't usually hurt anyone no matter what their weight is. There is nothing wrong with limiting highly processed foods and getting a bit of exercise. I am very overweight myself. I have recently (little over a year ago) stopped eating meat. Most my health issues besides my weight are under way better control. Despite the fact of going meatless I still haven't lost a significant amount of weight, but I do feel a whole lot better.

I might never lose enough weight to be considered a normal weight, but as long as I am healthy I really don't see it as an issue. I won't be losing weight just because a lot of people think I am an eyesore. I really don't care how "concerned" they are about my health.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:08 PM

30. It is unhealthy, but so are a lot of other things that people do that go un-criticized

nt

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:13 PM

32. Don't worry, we can pray the weigh away



Fat Jesus says for the moment, just have another cookie

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Response to demwing (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:18 PM

33. touche

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:03 AM

37. I don't know why people think it's acceptable

to comment on another person's weight.

After I had back surgery which came right after two other surgeries, I went into a a hypermetabolic state that caused me to lose a lot of weight. I wasn't starving myself I just started losing weight and lost a total of 40 pounds in about 4 - 6 months. The doctor started getting concerned when I dropped to 88 pounds.

You wouldn't believe the cruel statements people made, often total strangers - "OMG, you are so skinny" "you look anorexic" "blah blah blah". Yes, thanks for noticing and kiss my butt.

It physically and emotionally hurt to be that skinny - there was no cushioning on my bones and it wasn't fun. It took over a year to gain 10 pounds.

Now, I could stand to lose 10 pounds but that's another story.

People who are "concern freaks" need to learn what's appropriate and inappropriate to say to someone else. I find it isn't usually concern but meanness or arrogance.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:06 AM

38. Hi dsc

Hi,
Thanks for this thoughtful post. I think all of your points are very valid, and I have fallen into that trap before myself and am dealing with my own self-realized prejudice in regard to this. I recall a post a while ago about thin people and the same thing, like someone saying "Eat a cheeseburger", which I am ashamed to admit that I had used that phrase in the past.

Peace

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Response to hibbing (Reply #38)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:18 AM

43. it's not often someone acknowledges when they've done something wrong. Thank you.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:12 AM

41. Like the Beatles would say

All you need is love....

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:02 PM

53. Well, my parents are both obese

I'm REALLY worried about their health. They're 57 & 58 years old, both on high blood pressure meds and they eat and drink whatever they want. Once in a blue moon, I try gentle hints ("The weather is great! A walk around the neighborhood sounds like a great idea!"). I question whether I'm doing or saying enough because I don't want to lose them.

On the other hand, my sister is overweight and I'm not worried about her health. She's not happy about her weight, but she's young, active, and it's not a health issue right now.

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