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Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:34 PM

WaPo/ABC Poll from last Feb, 77% of Liberal Democrats support use of Drones

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-02-08/politics/35445649_1_drone-program-support-for-drone-strikes-drone-policy

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Obama has also relied on armed drones far more than Bush did, and he has expanded their use beyond America’s defined war zones. The Post-ABC News poll found that 83 percent of Americans approve of Obama’s drone policy, which administration officials refuse to discuss, citing security concerns.

The president only recently acknowledged the existence of the drone program, which some human rights advocates say operates without a clear legal framework and in violation of the U.S. prohibition against assassination.

But fully 77 percent of liberal Democrats endorse the use of drones, meaning that Obama is unlikely to suffer any political consequences as a result of his policy in this election year.

Support for drone strikes against suspected terrorists stays high, dropping only somewhat when respondents are asked specifically about targeting American citizens living overseas, as was the case with Anwar al-
Awlaki, the Yemeni American killed in September in a drone strike in northern Yemen.
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91 replies, 3823 views

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Reply WaPo/ABC Poll from last Feb, 77% of Liberal Democrats support use of Drones (Original post)
stevenleser Feb 2013 OP
rustydog Feb 2013 #1
gholtron Feb 2013 #53
tblue Feb 2013 #2
markpkessinger Feb 2013 #54
JaneyVee Feb 2013 #3
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #4
Dawgs Feb 2013 #5
dballance Feb 2013 #6
NOVA_Dem Feb 2013 #7
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #8
Dawgs Feb 2013 #11
stevenleser Feb 2013 #13
Dawgs Feb 2013 #90
NOVA_Dem Feb 2013 #14
aikoaiko Feb 2013 #9
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #10
Cha Feb 2013 #12
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #15
stevenleser Feb 2013 #16
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #18
stevenleser Feb 2013 #20
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #24
stevenleser Feb 2013 #25
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #26
stevenleser Feb 2013 #35
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #40
stevenleser Feb 2013 #41
Yavin4 Feb 2013 #66
graham4anything Feb 2013 #36
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #39
graham4anything Feb 2013 #42
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #45
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #63
graham4anything Feb 2013 #71
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #62
SomethingFishy Feb 2013 #34
stevenleser Feb 2013 #60
sadalien Feb 2013 #69
SomethingFishy Feb 2013 #70
stevenleser Feb 2013 #80
SomethingFishy Feb 2013 #91
gholtron Feb 2013 #56
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #64
gholtron Feb 2013 #67
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #75
davidn3600 Feb 2013 #17
DearHeart Feb 2013 #59
whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #19
cali Feb 2013 #21
stevenleser Feb 2013 #22
cali Feb 2013 #23
stevenleser Feb 2013 #27
graham4anything Feb 2013 #43
cali Feb 2013 #47
stevenleser Feb 2013 #50
cali Feb 2013 #52
Bonobo Feb 2013 #85
cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #83
mike_c Feb 2013 #28
NOVA_Dem Feb 2013 #31
graham4anything Feb 2013 #44
stevenleser Feb 2013 #32
SomethingFishy Feb 2013 #29
stevenleser Feb 2013 #33
SomethingFishy Feb 2013 #37
JoePhilly Feb 2013 #49
SomethingFishy Feb 2013 #58
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #30
Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #38
RoccoR5955 Feb 2013 #46
LittleBlue Feb 2013 #48
stevenleser Feb 2013 #51
ecstatic Feb 2013 #57
WinkyDink Feb 2013 #61
Logical Feb 2013 #65
stevenleser Feb 2013 #76
JI7 Feb 2013 #72
Kolesar Feb 2013 #55
Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #68
marmar Feb 2013 #73
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #74
stevenleser Feb 2013 #77
marmar Feb 2013 #86
marmar Feb 2013 #89
Number23 Feb 2013 #78
B Calm Feb 2013 #79
Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #88
ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #81
Apophis Feb 2013 #82
fujiyama Feb 2013 #84
BlueCheese Feb 2013 #87

Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:36 PM

1. Then it MUST be a good thing. right?

Wasn't slavery accepted until people developed the courage to change it?
Drone strikes are wrong. Drone assasinations of American Citizens goes against every single thing our country stands for.

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Response to rustydog (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:53 PM

53. What if the American citizen is a member

Of a terrorist organization that Congress declared war on.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:37 PM

2. Supporting drones kinda makes you not 'liberal'

IMHO.

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Response to tblue (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:55 PM

54. Agreed -- IMNSHO n/t

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:37 PM

3. Just read that a legal framework will soon be proposed in the House & Senate

Wonder what that vote tally will look like.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:43 PM

4. Supporting a drone policy "which administration officials refuse to discuss"

 

Sounds about right for the "I love MyPresident" crowd. Rationalization isn't limited to Freepers.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:43 PM

5. What the fuck does this have to do with anything?

Stop cheerleading!

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:45 PM

6. That's Very Disappointing.

It makes me wonder if people just are not educated about the horrible things we doing with them. Like all the innocents we kill as collateral damage to get one or two terrorists. Thereby creating more terrorists through our actions. So much of the US citizenry is oblivious to anything outside their own little daily life bubble. They're not political and don't read and post on sites like DU or FreeRepublic either.

I'm sure everyone has forgotten by now we (and I do me "we" because "we" voted in the administration that's using drones) killed a US citizen and his teen-aged son without charges, without a trial allowing him to defend himself before a jury.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:46 PM

7. It's not about the tool (drones) it's the justification for using it.n/t

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:51 PM

8. This goes beyond that. This is about the death penalty.

Not the kind of death penalty imposed by a so-called jury of your peers, but a death penalty imposed by a "high ranking government official" based on what they believe.

I find it shocking that so many DUers suddenly support the death penalty even though no physical evidence needs to be shown to a jury.

Kind of funny now, looking back on George Bush's war on terror and being told it was immoral illegal and ill-advised.

That an American citizen can be sentenced to death with out a jury seeing a shred of evidence is something I cannot get behind.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:44 PM

11. DU is a different place.

It used to be more than just cheerleading for anything with a D next to it.

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:03 PM

13. DU is more critical of Drones than Democrats as a whole as my DU poll in GD suggests

So, no, DU is definitely not a cheerleading place. It is more critical of Democrats than the general population of Democrats.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:04 AM

90. Again. The use of Drones and this most recent policy on drone strikes of Americans are not the same.

We're going to have to disagree on whether DU is for cheerleaders. Been here since 2004 and remember when honest discussion among all types of Democrats was allowed and encouraged. Not so much anymore.

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:05 PM

14. I think it's about defending Obama at all costs..

These same people are quick to throw congressional dems under the bus to defend the President.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:56 PM

9. Support the use of drones? Sure. But to do what.


I'd like to see how the question was worded.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:58 PM

10. Would "77% of Liberal Democrats" support President Romney's use, I wonder.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:01 PM

12. Thanks for the perspective, Steven.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:07 PM

15. I guess that means killing people without trial is now a "liberal" value.

How very...humane? practical? progressive? Or, just plain hypocritical?

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:09 PM

16. Or we disagree with your interpretation of it. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:13 PM

18. Of what? Killing? Liberal? or "Value"?

Your OP infers that "liberals" approve killing people without trial.

What's your interpretation of what's actually happening? Are the drones not killing people? Are the people being killed getting trials? Are the people approving not "liberals"?

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:14 PM

20. You have decided to interpret it that way. I see it the way the Magistrate explains it.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:24 PM

24. So, where's the part about killing people without trial being "liberal"?

It's kind of like when most "liberals" supported LBJ on Vietnam....until they didn't.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:28 PM

25. Phrasing the question that way would make it a push poll. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:31 PM

26. OK. Let's try it this way.

Do you support killing people without trial?

Are you a liberal?

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:44 PM

35. That is a separate issue. All Liberals and Democrats would answer the same way.

1. No

2. Yes.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:58 PM

40. I guess that makes Obama not a liberal.

Because he not only favors killing without trial but is doing so.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:58 PM

41. Nope, he would answer the same way the way you framed the question. nt

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:50 PM

66. Did Southern Soldiers during the Civil War Get Trials or Were They Killed?

When taken prisoner, were they brought before a judge or thrown into a holding cell for combatants?

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:44 PM

36. LBJ was the greatest. I supported him then and know. He would have beaten Nixon.

 

stupidest thing democratic protesters did was put up an inferior candidate HHH who had the baggage, but not the achievements and of course HHH lost.

(and most forget- HHH would have been most likely, the nominee had RFK still been alive.
It was NOT a forgone conclusion as ones memory is clouded with).

any president would have done the same thing in Vietnam
(as JFK hired Bob McNamara, had JFK still been president, it goes without saying McNamara would have done the same thing).

and if people were actually around then, losing was NOT an option in the war. NO president at that time, in the heat of the cold
war would have done anything different.

but-
ONLY LBJ would have used his capital to sign the voting rights, civil rights acts.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #36)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:55 PM

39. He carried on a genocidal war against people that posed no threat to this country.

He was in charge of killing people without cause, unless you think that looking "tough on Communism" was a valid cause.

I voted, as a Democrat, for the Peace & Freedom Party in '68 and would do so again.

"any president would have done the same thing in Vietnam"

So, I guess that makes what Nixon did right. What Bush did right in Iraq. And, makes the "surge" right for Obama in Afghanistan.

So, good PR trumps common decency. "Tough on terra'" allows the killing of civilians and unlimited power for the president...especially if he's a Democrat.

Our views on killing, justice, and democracy are at variance.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #39)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:00 PM

42. LBJ would have beaten Nixon in 1968. And Nixon sabatoged the peace negotiations.

 

Eisenhower started the war. It wasn't LBJs war.
But losing wasn't an option then.

as for the others, if you don't like Bush, dont elect Jeb in 2016. Vote for Hillary.
the answer is very clear.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #42)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:15 PM

45. Losing may not have been an option (politically) but it was a reality.

The war was lost before LBJ left office. Humphrey was going to carry it on. Nixon did.

We had a choice between the war party and the war party.

Some of us chose neither.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #42)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:49 PM

63. No, LBJ would not have won; he knew the political calculus then better than you now.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #63)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:13 PM

71. LBJ vs. Nixon head to head, LBJ would have won. Ugly match, but LBJ would have won

 

HHH barely lost and he was a bad candidate.
LBJ would have done better than HHH, because LBJ was able to campaign on his accomplishments, while all HHH had was the albatross of Vietnam.

Eugene McCarthy (like George McGovern) may have been helleva nice people, but neither was ever seriously considered as being able to win.

And of course, you forget something-democratic votes were split by Wallace.
LBJ would have negated Wallace and that alone would have led to victory.

(convienient to forget the racism Wallace brought to the democratic party.)

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #39)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:48 PM

62. Kind of like Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:43 PM

34. And his explanation is valid as long as you blindly trust your government.

And as we all know our government would never lie to us. Would never do anything like start a war with a country that posed no threat to us. Would never kill anyone who didn't deserve it.

What happens if a Tea Bagger wins the next election and decides anyone speaking out against them on DU is an "insurgent" and a risk to national security?

The people I see agreeing with these types of policies all seem to have an amazing amount of trust in a government that has blatantly cheated, stolen, and lied to us. While I don't think Obama would abuse this power I have no doubt there are tons of "elected officials" who would.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:45 PM

60. Blind trust is not required, no.

If you believe that what is going on between the US and Al Qaeda constitutes a defacto war, there is no trust to give.

There is a conflict between us and them that is governed by the rules of war. Anyone not in Al Qaeda doesnt get targeted. Anyone who is in Al Qaeda is a legitimate target.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #60)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:09 PM

69. al Qaeda is (insert insugency group du jour here)

 

You can't have an enemy that you just make up on the fly.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #60)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:12 PM

70. Even if I did believe this was a war, and I don't,

Blind faith is required no matter what. Unless you are in the middle of it you have no idea if what you are being told is true or not. When they bomb some "suspected insurgents" does that make you happy? I see those words used all the time "suspected insurgents". What the fuck does that even mean? Am I a "suspected insurgent" for typing this?

I see pictures of bloody and dead children and am told that this "collateral damage" is necessary to the security of the United States. And what? I'm just supposed to take their word for it? That there is no other way to survive this "war on terror"? That we cannot win without "collateral damage"?

I'll say this again, blind faith is a requirement. How many people believed the Jessica Lynch "Rambo" story? How about Abu Grahib? How about the billions of missing dollars? Pat Tillman? Do you think had these stories not been exposed you would know the truth? Blind faith.


One last thing, If this is a war, you are not going to win this by killing terrorists. All killing terrorists does is create more terrorists.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #70)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:51 PM

80. Nope, that is not required at all.

I evaluate everything I see the government do, does it seem fishy, etc.

Well over 80% of us in this country want the government to try to interdict al Qaeda when that group is attempting to plan terrorist strikes against us.

It makes sense to me, for instance. That the drone strikes are happening in remote areas of Yemen and tribal areas of Pakistan. That is one check on what is happening. Drone strikes are not happening in Latin America, for instance. That's not blind faith.

There was a 911 investigations pointed blame for those attacks at Al Qaeda.
That's is check #2.

Bin Laden, who was the head of Al Qaeda, admitted blame in a video and said to avoid more attacks we had to all convert to Islam.
That is check #3.

All of a sudden this hardly seems blind or faith behind our insight into the attacks.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #80)

Sat Feb 9, 2013, 02:19 PM

91. LOL.. Look I respect you and what you do but...

Your second example "There was a 911 investigations pointed blame for those attacks at Al Qaeda.
That's is check #2." Yes and after check number 2 we went and invaded Iraq, who had no real military capabilities, who had no WMD's, no yellowcake, and who at best had minimal Al Quaeda ties. Also we were told the war would pay for itself. How many government lies do I need to post before you admit that in every conflict there is some amount of blind faith in your government?

We will have to agree to disagree on this my friend.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:00 PM

56. We are at war.

We didn't start this war. We didn't want this war and if we don't do anything to stop the enemy, then a hell of a lot more innocent people will die. Yes it's ugly no one wants it. It is a necessary way to fight a faceless border less evil enemy.

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Response to gholtron (Reply #56)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:50 PM

64. Oh, pish. GMAB. Why not just say we're going to go after "the bad guys"?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #64)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:52 PM

67. okay. We're going after the bad guys.

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Response to gholtron (Reply #56)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:52 PM

75. The same was said of Vietnam.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:11 PM

17. That 77% may be Democrats, but they are certainly not liberal

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:34 PM

59. Got that F'in Right!!

More likely to be "moderate" or "right-leaning" democrats, but certainly not "Liberals".

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:14 PM

19. The old grey mare (donkey), she ain't what she used to be

Gotta love these vapid vox populi threads...

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:15 PM

21. Since when does majority opinion matter when it comes to

questions of right and wrong?

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Response to cali (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:17 PM

22. Well, a DU jury for one example.

I think this poll is important because it shows a lot of people do not see this issue in the terms that some DUers are painting it.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:21 PM

23. That's rather a shabby comparison.

And I know you know that.

At the risk of sounding elitist, a lot of "liberal democrats" are simply partisan and likely not terribly well informed on this issue.

What do want to wager that if this was a republican president with the same policy, it would be 77% against?

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Response to cali (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:32 PM

27. That is an often repeated canard, it's not true. You are conflating Iraq and torture with drones.

Virtually everyone on DU disagreed with Bush on Iraq and Torture. The same cannot be said with drones or Afghanistan.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:01 PM

43. plus ten zillion

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:36 PM

47. That's an egregious misuse of the word canard.

I didn't mention Iraq. Now that's a canard.

Here's why your comparison of juries on DU to determine whether a post breaks the forum rules is so shabby:

1) It's hardly a life or death or constitutional issue.

2) It's not about morality at all. It's about whether someone is breaking the rules.

And the claim that I'm conflating Iraq and torture with targeted killings is absurd and, well, cheap. kind of sleazy. Not only did I not conflate the two, I never mentioned (or even thought of) the former.

Not a persuasive argument, Leser.

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Response to cali (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:43 PM

50. I stand by my earlier statement. You cannot come up with a single example.

You cannot come up with a single example of someone who was not in favor of drones under Bush, but is in favor of them now.

Again, you are conflating opposition to Iraq and Torture with opposition to drones.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #50)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:52 PM

52. what? what? what?

You appear to be deliberately obtuse within this conversation. Drone use under bush was less understood and far less widespread. It was talked and written about less. Are you actually denying that partisanship plays a significant role in public opinion regarding issues?

And again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with Iraq and torture. Nada. Zip.

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Response to cali (Reply #52)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:45 AM

85. I disagree.

I do not think he is being intentionally obtuse.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:33 AM

83. So DU juries are an acceptable way of judging right from wrong?

You be funny.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:33 PM

28. drones are not the issue...

...although maybe it's better to say that "Drones are ANOTHER issue." But your constant attempts to divert the discussion away from unilateral expansion of presidential power to subvert constitutional protections for American citizens, and onto drones, is disingenuous at best. Drones are just the vehicle by which constitutional rights have been suspended-- it's the erosion of constitutional protections from arbitrary and capricious harm by the government that is the real issue.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:39 PM

31. Thank you! This is about Due Process and Assassinations of US Citizens...

by our gov't.

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Response to NOVA_Dem (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:02 PM

44. no it is not. the issue is drones. nothing else.

 

don't like Bush? Don't vote for Jeb in 2016. Vote for Hillary.
there are two choices.
a
b
there is no other choice.
unless one wants an election thrown like in 2000.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:42 PM

32. Who is doing the diverting depends on your perspective. I think it is you.

First off, it's my OP to discuss the poll. If you are discussing something else, you are the one who is diverting and threadjacking.

Second, what most reasonable people realize is that there is a difference of opinion on one key point.

- Do you think it is OK to consider our conflict with Al Qaeda and its affiliates a defacto war?

If the answer for you is yes, as it is with me, the Magistrate, and many others here, there is no power grab or extension of powers, there is no Constitutional issue, etc. I'm sure you are familiar with the rules of war so I wont belabor the point by listing them. If we are at war with Al Qaeda, the President can use drones, tanks, planes, dreadnaughts, carriers, etc.

If you are of the belief that there is no way our conflict with Al Qaeda can constitute a defacto war, then you are arguing abuse of power, Constitutional rights issues, etc.

Of course, that takes all the hyperbole out of the equation and I have a feeling you wont like that.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:35 PM

29. LMFAO.. yeah.. I'm sure all these liberals will feel the same way

when their house or children become "collateral damage"...

We sure are big and brave when it comes to killing people 3000 miles away.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:43 PM

33. Easy remedy for that, right? Don't move to Yemen and sign up with Al Qaeda. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #33)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:47 PM

37. Yeah I don't plan on it. However within the next 5 years

drones will be littering the skies over the USA. Who's to say your house won't be next? You are cheering the opening of Pandora's box. I hope it doesn't come back to bite us in the ass.

But eventually... it will.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:42 PM

49. And that's when the FEMA Camps come into play.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #49)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:13 PM

58. Yeah ok.

Because what I said has everything to do with paranoid fringe fantasies about FEMA internment camps.. You better answer your other line, I think Alex Jones is calling...



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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:38 PM

30. If 77% of Liberal Democrats walked off a pier, would you? (facepalm)

 

I say use or possession of drones should be added to the Geneva Conventions as a War Crime.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:49 PM

38. Well, I guess I'm either in the minority or not a liberal Democrat.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:35 PM

46. Funny, they never asked me.

As I am not in favor of drones.
They are just another form of terrorism.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:39 PM

48. And if Bush was president, 90% would oppose it

And when the next Bush comes along, all those gullible fools will say "hey wait, maybe this was a bad idea."

What a sad bunch of fucking tools

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:44 PM

51. Nope, that is an oft repeated canard.

Those of us who are not against drones, were never against drones.

I was and am against the Iraq war and torture. That hasnt changed.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #51)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:13 PM

57. good point nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #51)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:47 PM

61. And some of us who were, are.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #51)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:50 PM

65. LOL, you believe that? If Romney did this we would be up in arms. Nice try. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #65)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:37 PM

76. Nice try yourself. If it's so obvious, provide an example

Show one DUer who was not in favor of drones when Bush was in office but who is now.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:14 PM

72. no they woudln't, many supported him going into Afghanistan , but didn't support Iraq

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:56 PM

55. Why did we use a drone to kill Anwar al-Awlaki?

'Cuz we couldn't get in there with napalm!

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:55 PM

68. Well that's disheartening

I would hope that more Dems would oppose drone strikes.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:15 PM

73. Just proves how worthless the contemporary definition of "liberal" has become.

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Response to marmar (Reply #73)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:16 PM

74. "Liberal" = "Obama bumper sticker" n/t

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Response to marmar (Reply #73)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:44 PM

77. That's one interpretation. The other is more likely.

That most people simply want their government to interdict terrorist groups planning to hurt them, and that is not influenced by ideology.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #77)


Response to stevenleser (Reply #77)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:36 AM

89. "to interdict terrorist groups planning to hurt them"


That propaganda doesn't sound any fresher than it did a decade ago.


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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:47 PM

78. Killing them (AS USUAL) with the facts

Though I'm not sure why you even bother...

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:51 PM

79. In Vietnam, I wonder how many

of our troops could have been saved if we had drones. . .

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Response to B Calm (Reply #79)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:26 AM

88. In Vietnam, if we'd had more liberal Democrats, about 99% of the eventual total KIA.

 

Or hey, how about this? If Eisenhower had just sent three or four nukes into the North we could have made it 100%.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:53 PM

81. That is heartbreaking and nauseating all at the same time.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:05 AM

82. I'm part of the 23% who doesn't support it.

 

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:40 AM

84. A limited and judicious use of drones is inevitable and can be warranted

It certainly is better than the alternative of invading countries.

The problem arises with this business of targeted killings of American CITIZENS. We afford our citizens constitutional rights of due process even in cases of treason, mutiny, and various capital crimes.

The legal reasoning of assassinating US citizens abroad is really perilous at best. I don't like the precedent it sets one bit. Sooner or later another republican administration will come along and use the same reasoning. We didn't like this kind of thing during Bush's term, and we shouldn't like it now.

And as I said, a limited use of drones can and should be part of a national security policy. With stateless actors killing innocents, we realistically should assume that our government will utilize such a technology. But if such a policy is to be executed, we need much stronger oversight from Congress, which has seemingly dropped the ball.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:08 AM

87. The whole reason we have a Bill of Rights is to protect us from tyranny of the majority.

I'm pretty sure if we put it to a vote, the public would get rid of most of the rights of the accused, separation of church and state, and a lot of the freedom of speech and press. Flag-burning amendments regularly get 65 votes in the U.S Senate. Even in California they voted to make same sex marriage illegal. That the majority of the public is willing to allow the government to kill American citizens without trial does nothing to make it justifiable.

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