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Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:18 PM

Poll on Drones, are they OK to use ever? Only in certain circumstances?

The debate on Drones has been ignited anew, what is your position on Drones?
9 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Time expired
I think drones are always wrong to use and amount to extrajudicial killing whether its Americans or Non-Americans
4 (44%)
I think drones are OK to use if the targets are non-Americans who are difficult for us to get our hands on.
0 (0%)
I think drones are OK to use regardless of nationality of targets if they are located in areas that make it difficult to apprehend them.
5 (56%)
Other/Not Sure/Will Explain
0 (0%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

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Reply Poll on Drones, are they OK to use ever? Only in certain circumstances? (Original post)
stevenleser Feb 2013 OP
JDPriestly Feb 2013 #1
Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #2
stevenleser Feb 2013 #3
Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #4
EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #5
stevenleser Feb 2013 #7
JaneyVee Feb 2013 #6
ecstatic Feb 2013 #8
quinnox Feb 2013 #9
kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #10
SidDithers Feb 2013 #11
Recursion Feb 2013 #12
stevenleser Feb 2013 #13
stevenleser Feb 2013 #14
el_bryanto Feb 2013 #15
stevenleser Feb 2013 #17
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #16
stevenleser Feb 2013 #18
LittleBlue Feb 2013 #19

Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:33 PM

1. Drones are OK for rescue and humanitarian purposes. Also good for traffic patrols.

Drones are OK to use in declared wars on fighting forces and strategic targets.

Drones are not OK to use on American citizens. The international community needs to clarify the legal parameters for their use in international situations.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:38 PM

2. Drones are weapons of war, and under the rules of war I think their use is acceptable

Drones, after all, are different only in the fact that the pilot is sitting in an air-conditioned van at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, or some other safe location distant from the battlefield.

The military personnel involved in their flight are not at risk of being killed or captured. The weapon systems are cheaper than conventional aircraft because they do not have to carry a pilot.

If we remember back to the earlier part of the Iraq war, before drone technology came into wide use, these same arguments were made against airstrikes by conventionally piloted aircraft, especially where weddings were attacked because of the Iraqi and Afghan practice of firing weapons into the air to celebrate the nuptials, or where weapons missed intended targets and struck the innocent.

My problem is not with drones but the scope of the war in which we as a nation are involved. I think terrorism should be a law enforcement issue. Nations that support terrorists should be shunned diplomatically and economically, and we should seek to arrest those who are engaged in such activities, even if we need to send U.S. Marshals attached to Seal teams or Marine detachments. The President has been authorized by Congress with broad authority to hunt and kill individuals in positions of leadership in terrorist organizations even if not activly involved in a crime and if American citizens. We have made the entire world a battlefield, and I think that is wrong.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:41 PM

3. Yours is one side and you state it well.

The Magistrate gives the other side well http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2321830 .

The simple disagreement is whether Al Qaeda should be treated as a criminal group, or a group of stateless combatants. If you believe the former, you believe that Constitutional protections should apply. If you believe the latter, then Constitutional protections do not apply.

That leaves out all the needless hyperbole.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:41 PM

4. Replace the drone with a manned aircraft and consider this

Would we condone US pilots targeting and killing American citizens? Would the pilots even do such a thing? That is why it is all about the drone, the human element has been entirely removed. The recently discovered justification by our government only serves to ensure this becomes the new standard. We will engage in more wars and covert actions because we won't see as many coffins draped with American flags.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:45 PM

5. American citizens in legalese only or American citizens minding their own business in rural Ohio? nt

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:49 PM

7. By "areas difficult to apprehend them" I mean lawless areas of Yemen and tribal Pakistan

and similar places around the world. Somalia comes to mind.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:47 PM

6. Maybe we can use them to deliver Saturday mail.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:52 PM

8. A drone would have been very helpful in WW2, IMO

All war is disgusting, but I think assassinations and drones would have saved millions in WW2. In the context of war, drones are OK in certain circumstances.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:56 PM

9. I think they should be extremely limited in their possible use

I can see an extreme situation where a drone strike was the only option in some foreign country in the mountains or inaccessible terrain where a terrorist group is hiding out in, but it should not be a normal part of foreign policy and taking place almost daily, as it is now. It should be a measure of last resort and should be rare as hen's teeth to take this action.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:36 PM

10. I support the use of RECONNAISSANCE drones, which my dad spent his career in the USAF

developing. I also support the use of armed attack drones against legitimate military targets during wartime.

You can argue about whether or not US citizens working to harm Americans while on foreign soil constitute a legitimate military target. I happen to believe they are. Others may differ.

Throwing out drone technology merely because it can be misused is just stupid.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:42 PM

11. Kick...nt

Sid

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:49 PM

12. Drones don't kill people, the order to fire kills people

The problem isn't drones, it's where and against whom they are being used.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:10 PM

13. Kick. Interesting results so far. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:04 PM

14. Kick #2

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:08 PM

15. Honestly the issue is complicated as hell and I'm not sure what I think

On the one hand it is a tool; most tools can be turned to bad use as well as good use. On the other hand the implications of killing people with out trials or due process is very troubling. On the other hand is it really that different using a drone vs sending in a troop of soldiers.

Complicated.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:45 PM

17. I agree. It is complicated. I've arrived at my opinion as the better of bad options.

The problem is the response on the other side that immediately accuse people of being for killing Americans and all of that other agitprop.

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:09 PM

16. Use or possession of drones should be added to the Geneva Conventions as a War Crime. n/t

 

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:30 PM

18. Kick #3

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Response to stevenleser (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:32 PM

19. If we have a declared war on a declared enemy, then drones can be used

Although I think wars should never be a means to resolving conflict

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