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Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:23 AM

Busting the Myth That Christians Are More Generous Than Non-Believers

http://www.alternet.org/belief/busting-myth-christians-are-more-generous-non-believers




The story has gone viral: A group got together at Applebees. When the tab came the minister wrote on the ticket, “I give God 10 percent, why should I give you 18?” She scratched through the automatic large-group tip and substituted a fat zero and signed it with the word “Pastor” in front of her name. The waitress posted an image on Reddit. The pastor called to complain. The waitress got fired. The internet went wild. Last I saw, one story had 80,000 comments and counting.

In reality, the pastor simply exposed something that is all too common to Christian thinking: the sense that giving to the church and to religious charities is the be-all and end all of generosity. As indignant reactions to the Applebee’s incident show, service workers sometimes pay the price:

“I worked at the Outback Steakhouse for 3 years and we ALL dreaded Sundays.”

“The Sunday after church crowd were allways the worst tippers. I found another line of work.”

114 replies, 7027 views

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Arrow 114 replies Author Time Post
Reply Busting the Myth That Christians Are More Generous Than Non-Believers (Original post)
xchrom Feb 2013 OP
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #1
hobbit709 Feb 2013 #7
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #10
Heddi Feb 2013 #64
ReRe Feb 2013 #11
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #14
pokerfan Feb 2013 #106
Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #107
marmar Feb 2013 #2
xchrom Feb 2013 #3
marmar Feb 2013 #4
xchrom Feb 2013 #5
marmar Feb 2013 #6
xchrom Feb 2013 #8
exboyfil Feb 2013 #9
nxylas Feb 2013 #12
harmonicon Feb 2013 #18
aka-chmeee Feb 2013 #20
harmonicon Feb 2013 #22
dkf Feb 2013 #53
Dash87 Feb 2013 #103
nxylas Feb 2013 #105
LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #40
KatyMan Feb 2013 #67
yardwork Feb 2013 #78
KatyMan Feb 2013 #94
LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #97
mwb970 Feb 2013 #13
modrepub Feb 2013 #21
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #44
joeybee12 Feb 2013 #74
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #90
joeybee12 Feb 2013 #92
Major Nikon Feb 2013 #100
SemperEadem Feb 2013 #15
SemperEadem Feb 2013 #16
BigD_95 Feb 2013 #17
Iggo Feb 2013 #38
dr.strangelove Feb 2013 #19
pink-o Feb 2013 #23
mythology Feb 2013 #24
Nine Feb 2013 #25
xchrom Feb 2013 #26
Nine Feb 2013 #27
xchrom Feb 2013 #29
Nine Feb 2013 #31
catbyte Feb 2013 #30
Nine Feb 2013 #32
Iggo Feb 2013 #39
Nine Feb 2013 #41
Iggo Feb 2013 #45
Nine Feb 2013 #47
Iggo Feb 2013 #49
Nine Feb 2013 #51
Iggo Feb 2013 #58
Nine Feb 2013 #66
NoGOPZone Feb 2013 #50
Nine Feb 2013 #54
NoGOPZone Feb 2013 #57
Nine Feb 2013 #76
NoGOPZone Feb 2013 #77
Nine Feb 2013 #98
NoGOPZone Feb 2013 #99
catbyte Feb 2013 #60
Nine Feb 2013 #68
catbyte Feb 2013 #72
Nine Feb 2013 #73
Zorra Feb 2013 #37
Nine Feb 2013 #43
cordelia Feb 2013 #46
datasuspect Feb 2013 #71
catbyte Feb 2013 #28
WCLinolVir Feb 2013 #33
In_The_Wind Feb 2013 #34
cordelia Feb 2013 #35
catbyte Feb 2013 #61
cordelia Feb 2013 #69
trotsky Feb 2013 #75
cordelia Feb 2013 #108
trotsky Feb 2013 #109
TlalocW Feb 2013 #36
Arugula Latte Feb 2013 #42
hughee99 Feb 2013 #48
LadyHawkAZ Feb 2013 #65
catbyte Feb 2013 #70
Mariana Feb 2013 #93
yardwork Feb 2013 #80
Heddi Feb 2013 #87
yardwork Feb 2013 #110
2theleft Feb 2013 #113
yardwork Feb 2013 #114
tabbycat31 Feb 2013 #83
Nevernose Feb 2013 #88
Ilsa Feb 2013 #101
Deep13 Feb 2013 #52
LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #55
dkf Feb 2013 #56
ohheckyeah Feb 2013 #59
yardwork Feb 2013 #81
ohheckyeah Feb 2013 #85
Heddi Feb 2013 #62
yardwork Feb 2013 #82
Heddi Feb 2013 #86
Digit Feb 2013 #104
OldHippieChick Feb 2013 #63
yardwork Feb 2013 #84
BlueStreak Feb 2013 #79
Heddi Feb 2013 #89
Wise Child Feb 2013 #102
yardwork Feb 2013 #111
tama Feb 2013 #91
Jeff In Milwaukee Feb 2013 #95
madrchsod Feb 2013 #96
tavernier Feb 2013 #112

Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:34 AM

1. Many, many years ago

I worked at a restaurant across the street from the then main convention hotel in the city. We used to dread the coming of the religious groups. They were overly demanding, exceptionally cheap (more than once the "tip" was a prayer tract left instead of any form of cash) , generally rude, self absorbed and overall unpleasant.

That is not to say that everyone in these groups were difficult, but overall we were pretty much always glad when they were gone.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:00 AM

7. Some years back the Southern Baptists had their convention in San Antonio

The mayor's comment was that they showed up with the 10 Commandments and a $10 bill and vowed to break neither one.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:18 AM

10. And the mayor

would be pretty much right on target with that assessment.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:05 PM

64. completely correct

cheap asses. Hated church groups when I was a server. whoever thinks that 3 pennies and a dime is an acceptable tip has to be someone who fell on their head a lot when they were a child with soft fontanelles.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:37 AM

11. I can verify everything you said.

... they didn't order much, made a great big mess and as a rule did not tip much, if at all. We were always glad to see them go and glad when Monday morning came and the regular business folks were back in the hotel. Good morning.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:42 AM

14. Precisely

You summed it up all rather well!

We did like the Corvette Convention one year and the seemingly endless line of Corvettes heading down the street. Those folks were pretty cool and to a teenager it was just WOW!

Best of the Day to You as well!

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:02 AM

106. Gotta love those tracts

that look like a tip!

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #106)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:48 AM

107. Indeed

Although I will say that one is new to me and I think even more deceptive and hurtful. In my era (when the dinosaur still walked the earth ) They usually left a few cents (granted things were cheaper then and tips overall smaller) then one or two of those "praise ________" tracts.


I just thought of them as self absorbed, hypocritical, cheap B*st*rds. But, that was just mine (and most of my co-workers at the time) opinions.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:44 AM

2. k/r

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Response to marmar (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:46 AM

3. mornin!

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Response to xchrom (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:47 AM

4. Morning xchrom.....It's a bit early for me!!!

nt

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Response to marmar (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:50 AM

5. the damn dogs got me up.

why, why, why ....do they have to 'go out' at 4:00am?

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Response to xchrom (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:51 AM

6. Some business can't wait until the sun comes up.

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Response to marmar (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:00 AM

8. lol -- i guess so...nt

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:05 AM

9. In general the tithe (contribution) to

the church should not be considered charity in the traditional sense. A significant direct benefit is derived from that contribution (entertainment in worship through sermons and music, counseling, reduced cost for facility rental and sometimes education for affiliated private schools, babysitting service, religious education, network opportunities, and food).

Of course in some cases you can be a free rider for some of these things (not pay but still get the benefit), but eventually the pressure will mount to pay as well (as you should if you take advantage of these things).

The quesiton becomes should the tax code encourage such associations.

The only amount that should be considered traditional charity are those directed at meeting the physical needs of the poor.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:37 AM

12. The secular equivalent would be...

...those 1%ers who think that paying to have an opera house named after themselves constitutes charity (and endlessly recite the factoid about conservatives being more generous than liberals because liberals think the government should do everything).

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Response to nxylas (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:18 AM

18. 'cause fuck art, right? (nt)

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:37 AM

20. I think it is safe to say

that democratic led legislative bodies tend to be more generous to the arts than RWNCs.

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Response to aka-chmeee (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:45 AM

22. That's neither here nor there.

The question is, do you think support for the arts counts as legitimate charity? The law does. I further think it's just about the most important thing one's charity dollars can go to.

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Response to aka-chmeee (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:12 PM

53. Can you truly be generous if you are using OPM?

 

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Response to nxylas (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:35 PM

103. A necessary evil

It's the same as businesses that pretend to "give to charity," but in reality they just want both the advertising and people to think that they actually care about others. At least some of that money goes to a good cause, even if the intended result is to feed another stuffy multi-millionaire's ego.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #103)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:50 AM

105. I guess

Though in the example I mentioned, the "good cause" primarily benefits the elite. Thurston Q Zillionaire III wouldn't want any riff-raff polluting the opera house that bears his name with their presence, don't you know.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:35 AM

40. Exactly!

Contributions for that purpose should not be tax exempt. If it goes to the building maintenance, utilities, salaries it should not tax exempt. If they perform charity work that helps others then there should be a separate entity set up as a non-profit and the parishioners contribute directly to that charity.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:28 PM

67. Is it charity if you benefit?

with a tax break, etc?

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Response to KatyMan (Reply #67)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:22 PM

78. Not to mention the expectation of a heavenly reward.

I don't believe that giving to religious organizations is charity. I don't think that it should count as a charitable contribution. Most of the money goes to pay people's salaries and keep the churches built and repaired and heated. In essence, these churches are private clubs. People choose to belong and they pay for the upkeep and maintenance, just as they do when they belong to a country club. That's not tax deductible and neither should be contributions to churches.

And don't get me started on the so-called charitable missionary work. Just don't go there.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #78)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:53 PM

94. Excellent post, completely agree with you n/t

n/t!

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Response to yardwork (Reply #78)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:41 PM

97. Completely agree

I realized those points several months ago. Whatever finances are used to further their belief should not tax exempt for income purposes and they should not have tax exempt status from sales or property taxes. Especially property taxes when much it is for provided in relation to the city infrastructure.

Missionary work is no different when the focus is preaching to "lost souls".

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:39 AM

13. Any server knows that super-religious people are cheap and stingy.

It must be part of "doing God's work" or something.

This reminds me of Romney's "generous gifts to charity", which turned out to be money he gave the Mormon Church so it could buy more bowling alleys and shopping malls.

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Response to mwb970 (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:43 AM

21. Cheap, Or

as some religious people conclude "Blessed by God". I know several denominations that openly preach one's success in business endeavors is directly proportional with how much God loves you. Unfortunately, many people equate their success in business to be equal to how big their bank account is; and all too often the best way to an increased a pay check is to deprive someone else of $.

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Response to mwb970 (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:04 PM

44. Barbara Ehrenreich had the same experience when she did research for "Nickeled and Dimed":

“The worst, for some reason, are the Visible Christians – like the ten-person table, all jolly and sanctified after Sunday night service, who run me mercilessly and then leave me $1 on a $92 bill.”

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #44)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:11 PM

74. Love the penguins...

Is it real?

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #74)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:28 PM

90. Thanks. It's real as far as I know. It's been floating around

the Internet for ten years or more.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #90)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:48 PM

92. I've always wanted to go to Antarctica to see the penguins...

Maybe some day...

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Response to mwb970 (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:40 PM

100. Bloomberg and Mother Jones blew the lid off Rmoney's "charity" giving

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:43 AM

15. Back when I attended church

I would never tithe. Instead, I would tip service workers well. To me, that is a far better use of my money.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:45 AM

16. what those restaurants need to do

is pay their workers a living wage and to keep extracting the 18% for parties over 6. That would be fair all around, since religious people seem to think money grows on trees and all the workers need to do is go outside and pick dollar bills from the branches.

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Response to SemperEadem (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:02 AM

17. I agree sort of

 

the problem that happen with tipping became that the customer is paying the salary of the employees. Its a scam. The restaurants need to pay a living wage and if someone gets good service the tip should be a bonus not expected.

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Response to SemperEadem (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:25 AM

38. And until then, you need to tip like a champ.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:19 AM

19. As a former waiter, I disagree with the idea that churchgoers are the worst tippers

Sunday after church service was incredibly busy, but also profitable for me. I usually had big enough tables to get the "auto-18 tip" or automatic 18% tip. But they almost always added a few bucks more on top. I found this time to be one of the best of the week. The worst was the afterwork happy hour crowd. They were cheap.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:45 AM

23. That whole incident speaks to a general entitlement complex I've seen in these God people.

I work at SFO, and a little while ago, a young man turned in a handbag to me. It had been left in the boarding lounge, and there was a lot of cash in it. I found her ID in the wallet, had her paged over the PA, and when she showed up to claim it, she seemed pretty relieved. Then she grabbed the bag, took one look at the young man and me and announced: "It's because I'm a Christian."

No thank you. Just a validation that she got what she deserved.

The "Pastor" at Applebee's obviously has the same superiority complex, as do so many others.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:53 AM

24. This doesn't prove that at all

This is an anecdote. To even begin to prove something you need a far more rigorous set of data over time and place. All this proves is that the pastor in this case is a cheapskate and a scumbag.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:57 AM

25. Gee, a Christian-bashing thread. What a shock. (nt)

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Response to Nine (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:59 AM

26. i was raised churched and i am a church goin christian today.

so no, this is not a christian bashing thread.

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Response to xchrom (Reply #26)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:08 AM

27. It most certainly is.

What is the theme of the thread other than, "Christians are bad tippers and bad people?"

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Response to Nine (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:12 AM

29. how about accept the criticism and REFLECT on it.

that would a christian thing to do.

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Response to xchrom (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:21 AM

31. What makes you think I'm a Christian?

And if it's not a Christian-bashing thread, why are you urging Christians to accept and reflect on the criticism?

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Response to Nine (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:16 AM

30. No, they're bad tippers and often uncaring about anyone outside of their narrow worldview

and narrow parameters of "charity". You can't generalize about everyone, but all I know is I would make less than half in tips with the after church crowd than on any other day. Are you calling that a coincidence? And why shouldn't they be called out about it? I worked just as hard for the bad tippers as I did the good tippers.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:27 AM

32. Then start a thread on bad tippers. Or about the convention of tipping itself.

You and others are stating a bigoted premise. There is no other group you could accuse of being bad tippers and get away with it.

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Response to Nine (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:27 AM

39. This IS a thread about bad tippers.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #39)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:00 PM

41. Look at the thread title again.

This is about broad brushing a particular group. Replace "Christians" with "black people" or "after-church crowd" with "after-Synagogue crowd" and think about how it sounds. And, no, I don't think there is perfect equivalency. I would have alerted on a thread talking about how black or Jewish people are poor tippers even without the additional unflattering speculation about WHY they are bad tippers. I did not alert on this thread. But I don't think anti-Christian prejudice is miles away from those other types of prejudice either.

From this thread I've learned that "God people" have an entitlement complex, are stingy, rude, demanding, uncaring, hypocritical, and even messy. And these statements on a "progressive" message board. Why don't you all contact some of the many, many left-leaning Christian organizations that help put Democrats in office and share your views with them?

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Response to Nine (Reply #41)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:05 PM

45. Yeah, I see that.

And I also see what the thread is about: Bad tippers. Christian ones, in this case.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #45)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:18 PM

47. Would you object if someone started a thread about how Mexicans are bad tippers?

I would.

I'm also curious how all these waiters know the religious affiliations of the people they serve. Do they think that the only people who go to restaurants on Sunday afternoons are people coming from church? And why is it rude for two people to split a large meal or for a large group to request separate checks in an age where fewer and fewer people carry cash? What's considered a "bad" tip? All I see here is a bunch of people talking about an "other" group, griping about their bad qualities, reinforcing their own bigotry, and patting each other on the back for it.

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Response to Nine (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:46 PM

49. Why don't you start one and let's see.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #49)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:56 PM

51. Why would I do that? And why would you want me to?

I don't think a thread like that belongs on DU. Do you?

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Response to Nine (Reply #51)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:41 PM

58. I misread your subject line.

I thought it said "Would you object if I started a thread about...?"

Goin' a little too fast. Sorry about that.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #58)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:18 PM

66. Apology accepted. (nt)

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Response to Nine (Reply #41)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:55 PM

50. OK, I looked again

and I see the words "Busting the myth". So substituting "black people" as you suggest I get "Busting the myth that black people are more generous than non-black people." I wasn't aware such a belief existed.

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #50)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:18 PM

54. Wow, you are really tying yourself up in knots to defend the indefensible.

Is there anything that will get you to admit that this thread is about nothing more than tearing down a particular group of people?

Probably not, but let's try this. What if the thread title said, "Busting the Myth Asians Are Smarter Than White People" and was filled with ugly personal anecdotes about the stupidity of Asians along with speculation about why exactly they are so stupid? Not a perfect analogy, because there's really no such thing as a perfect analogy, but close enough.

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Response to Nine (Reply #54)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:39 PM

57. Maybe if you'd come up with some actual evidence to support

you preconceived notion that his thread is about tearing down a group of people, you'd get some people to go along with you. That, and if you wouldn't give the impression that you're doing something more than feeling sorry for yourself. The myth that is being referred to is the notion that religous people in general and Christians in particular are more generous. I've heard it myself many times. I haven't ever a belief that "black people" are more generousd , the example you're now quickly abandoning

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #57)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:16 PM

76. Evidence? The thread is its own evidence.

Replace all references to Christians with any other group you choose - black, Jewish, gay, Latino - and see how it reads. I can pick out plenty of comments for you if you want to pretend they don't exist.

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Response to Nine (Reply #76)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:21 PM

77. I've already replaced a reference to Christians in the very OP with a group of YOUR chosing

to illustrate that the replacement can't be considered comparable.

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #77)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:59 PM

98. So you think it's ok to say black people are rude, stingy, unpleasant, and messy?

You think it's ok to say they have unruly children and a sense of entitlement and that they don't think critically? Because that's what has been said about Christians in this thread.

The OP title might have been ok if it were accompanied by a study showing that Christians and non-Christians give to charity at equal rates instead of being accompanied by a story about one pastor behaving like an ass. What other message was there than, "See, this is just how these people are"?

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Response to Nine (Reply #98)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:05 PM

99. No, I think it's OK to say that it's a myth that Christians are more generous than non Christians

and to back that up with examples and an essay. Try to follow along.

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Response to Nine (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:53 PM

60. How am I being bigoted? I have PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with after-church cheapskates

If you want to play victim of some sort of religious persecution, do it elsewhere. Religion robs human beings of critical thinking skills because "everything is in God's hands so I'm not really responsible for my choices because it's God's will blah blah blah..."

It also gave that CHEAPSKATE pastor an excuse for stiffing her server. Additionally, I'm so damn sick and tired of people like you, Nine, who think you're so very persecuted for being a Christian. Bullshit. Get over yourself. You want to see persecution? You should have met my mom before she passed. She never wore sleeveless blouses or went swimming in public because she was too self-conscious of the scars on her upper arms and back from the Catholic nuns who would beat her for any number of "crimes" at that fucking school they forced her to attend. Speak Ojibway? WHACK! Not pray hard enough? THWACK! What on earth could a little girl do to deserve that?

And people wonder why only 4% of Native Americans identify as Christian. Get back to me if and when you are actually persecuted, OK?

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Response to catbyte (Reply #60)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:59 PM

68. So you're saying it's not bigotry because you believe it to be true?

Wow, that's quite a defense. And you say RELIGION robs people of critical thinking skills?

And did I say that I was persecuted? For that matter, did I say that I was a Christian? I think a thread like this is unworthy of DU and at odds with progressive ideals. From a practical perspective, I find it unwise to drive people away from the Party with attitudes like the ones displayed on this thread.

I'm sorry your mother was abused.

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Response to Nine (Reply #68)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:23 PM

72. So you're just trolling for fun. Ugh.

And nothing to say about Christian brutality?

Figures.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #72)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:06 PM

73. You have an odd definition of trolling.

I condemn all brutality. Just not sure what it has to do with a thread broadly painting Christians as poor tippers. You seem to be arguing that because Christianity has had some shameful periods in history, that anyone who identifies as a Christian in 2013 deserves whatever they get.

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Response to Nine (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:12 AM

37. Looks like a hypocrite bashing thread to me. nt

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Response to Zorra (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:01 PM

43. The thread title refers to "Christians," not "hypocrites." Do you equate the two? (nt)

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Response to Zorra (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:15 PM

46. Christian bashing.

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Response to Nine (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:22 PM

71. boo hoo

 

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:11 AM

28. It's been that way forever. After church was the WORST. And this was the 1970's.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:41 AM

33. I was a waitress in a very popular place. None of us liked waiting on church groups.

No matter what the ethnicity. Nice enough for the most part, but yes, more demanding, splitting stuff all the time, separate checks, and minimal tip. When you take up 40% of someones station you should keep that in mind, hence the group tip, as a server can make three to four times that with single tables. And I have to say that white church people could sometimes have an attitude that was holier than thou. Were they punishing me for working on Sunday? Not christian bashing, just the truth.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:27 AM

34. Shame on Applebees. Oh and, shame on that pastor!

Thanks for this thread.




I_T_W

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:53 AM

35. Yay. Yet ANOTHER Christian bashing thread.

How original.

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Response to cordelia (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:57 PM

61. Get over yourself

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Response to catbyte (Reply #61)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:02 PM

69. Might consider taking your own advice.

Christian bashing has been done to death around here.

How about something a tad more original?

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Response to cordelia (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:14 PM

75. The OP, as he pointed out on the thread, is a Christian.

Just FYI.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #75)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:27 AM

108. And? It's still Christian bashing.

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Response to cordelia (Reply #108)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:39 AM

109. You poor thing.

Well, your lord did warn that you'd be hated and persecuted. I guess a thread on an anonymous message board pointing out that Christians aren't necessarily more charitable than anyone else is the best you're going to find, so let's roll with it. I'm sorry for the persecution you have faced with this thread.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:10 AM

36. My experience (long)

I'm a part time balloon twister and magician but mainly balloon twister. Working for tips at restaurants is normally part of the job because it's a way to hand out your card to get birthday parties. I started in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which many of you know is full of religiously insane people. It's not necessarily all Christians that are bad - just the really crazy kind like you had there. I had a close relationship with the magic stores there (both owned by good Christians), and while they both looked forward to Halloween (both also had costumes), one mentioned to me the downside was all the churches were doing Harvest Parties instead of Halloween Parties in order to turn the holiday into a more church oriented one, and the bigwigs in the churches would come and look for non-spooky (because spooky = Satanic to churches who do freakin' Harvest parties) costumes and novelties to buy/rent and ALWAYS expect a discount because they were churches. The worst offender actually did spooky stuff... "GUTS Church," (cuz it takes guts to love Jesus), did a Hell House where you walked through spooky rooms like a normal Haunted House but all the rooms depict things like homosexuals burning in hell or the devil appearing to a woman about to get an abortion. I went through it once. It was interesting, and I pissed a few workers off accidentally.

That conversation happened fairly soon in my "career," and I started noticing it so when church people started asking me how much I charged, I would tell them my special Church rates were $X per hour... where $X was my normal rate, and technically it was true. I mentioned this on a balloon twisters forum and earned the ire of a big name twister (yes, we have famous twisters who put out tutorial DVDs), and I told him once they start acting like Christians and rendering unto Caesar maybe I'll give them a discount the next time.

The first time I worked outside of Tulsa was Oklahoma City. It was for an Indoor Fun Fair, which I also had worked for the previous weekend in Tulsa. Tips were soooooo much better I couldn't believe it. I'm now in Kansas City, and tips are even better than either Tulsa or OKC.

The following link is a site that unfortunately is no longer updated, but the archives are still there. Basically, it was a place for restaurant servers to come complain (and sometimes rave) about working as servers. There are two relevant stories to find on the page. Do a search for Christians, and you'll find them, and you'll see that it's not just that pastor who's a problem.

http://stainedapron.com/misc.htm

TlalocW

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:01 PM

42. What a colossal waste, to give money to a church, unless it goes directly to helping the needy,

which, in most cases, it does not.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:31 PM

48. Is there such thing as a group of people that are "good tippers"?

Last edited Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)

I've heard at various times that christians, jews, muslims, Irish, Russians, Indians, Japanese, Americans, Europeans, Asians, Africans, old people, young people, college students, bankers, politicians and porn starts are bad tippers.

The only three groups I've heard were "good tippers" were servers, mobsters and Saudi princes.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:07 PM

65. I tended bar, I didn't wait tables, which might make a difference

but yes, other service industry employees are the best possible customers.
Add "bikers" to your Good list. They tip their bar staff like the world will end tomorrow.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:21 PM

70. Smokers.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #70)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:49 PM

93. +1

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:31 PM

80. When I was a waitress long ago, I noticed an inverse relationship between income and tipping.

Ordinary guys in work clothes, blue collar workers, middle-aged regional sales managers, people who traveled for a living, cameramen for sports networks, professional women traveling on business by themselves, and of course most anybody who was or ever had been a server - all good tippers. Some of them really, really good tippers.

Lousy tippers = almost any large group. There is something about being part of a group that makes almost every person in that group into a nonexistent or lousy tipper. In fact, waiters get stiffed on the bills for large groups all the time, because many people don't put what they actually owe on the table. That's why restaurants routinely charge 20% gratuity on groups. The challenge is to get the money. It was often the case that after I'd sifted through the pile of crumpled bills and random change, the total amount paid came to less than the total bill, and the difference of course came out of my pocket.

One somewhat surprising group of bad tippers were actors. They'd all been waiters and thought that they were exceptional and nobody else could measure up. Actors used to stiff me on bills, too.

Hands down the very best tippers were two guys out for an evening of drinking.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #80)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:51 PM

87. My husband's step father is such a cheap ass tightwad

Mr Heddi and I, and Mr Heddi's Mom & her husband went out for lunch one day. We were visiting them from out of town. The bill was split, which was fine.

When it came to splitting the bill, it was an odd number, like one check was $25.04 and the other check was 25.05. So just being fucking normal people we put down $25 for the bill, and then $7 for the tip.

Mr. Heddi's step father is like "where's the nickel?"
I'm like, uh, I don't have one

He says "Well, your bill is $25.05"
Yeah, I know. Can you cover the dime for us so we don't have to break a dollar and give the waitress a 6 dollar and 95 cent tip. Seems kind of silly

He says "No. I won't cover it. I didn't eat that nickel worth of food. The two of you did. Why should I cover that?"

I said "BECAUSE NORMAL PEOPLE DON"T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT A NICKEL AND I DON"T WANT THE WAITRESS TO HAVE A POCKET FULL OF HEAVY FUCKING CHANGE TO CARY AROUND ALL DAY"

He says "well that's her problem to deal with."

He left $2 for a tip(a dollar each for he and his wife)

The waitress overheard our conversation and was chuckling in the back. When paid her she came back with change...$5 off for something on OUR bill, not step-dad's. When we were leaving she said "I appreciate you standing up to that guy!". I gave her the "extra" $5 in tip in addition to the $7 we had already left.....$12 on a $20 tab? NOt a bad take home. Add the other $2 and that's $14 on $50. They were still being asses but that $5 discount, which didn't cost her a thing allowed us to give her a proper tip.

I never fail to remind that jerk (and he is a jerk) about the time he stiffed the waitress in North Dakota.

His pat answer is "Well if she can't afford to be a waitress maybe she should find another job"

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Response to Heddi (Reply #87)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:01 AM

110. My former mother in law dated somebody like that for a while.

We went out to dinner and he stiffed the waitress. He explained that that was how he had gotten rich. Rich people, he explained, "save" money by not "wasting" it on tips (and paying their bills, I suspect in his case). We quietly left a tip. I was glad when my MIL broke up with him.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #80)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:47 AM

113. I hate going to dinner in a large group...

and I think you are correct in people get cheap because of the "splitting". WHY DON'T THEY GET THAT $2 for your $50 share is a shitty tip???? I always end up spending twice as much as what I owe to cover everyone else's lousy tip. And these are people that if you just go out with them individually are good tippers. Why lose your mind when you are in a group???

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Response to 2theleft (Reply #113)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:34 AM

114. "Why lose your mind when you are a group???" A universal good question.

Most terrible things happen because groups stand around and let them.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:39 PM

83. former servers

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:58 PM

88. Poor people

Having worked in service, either waiting tables or delivering pizza, I quickly learned to dread the rich people and looked forward to the working poor. Nothing's ever a hundred percent, and I got to know generous and stingy people from all walks of life, but generally speaking the poor people were better tippers.

My theory is that they knew what it was like, trying to support a family in a thankless, mindless, and occasionally dangerous job.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:54 PM

101. I have been told that college alumni

are big tippers after winning a good game. I heard stories of $100 bill tips for good service at a decent restaurant.

But it may just be anecdotal.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:57 PM

52. They only appear so because ecclesiastical donations count as charity. nt

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:26 PM

55. Read stories from the Stained Apron

Moral of the story?

Treat and tip your food servers properly.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:29 PM

56. Good tippers are as unique as truly excellent service I bet.

 

We've had some really really really excellent service before, people who go the extra mile beyond what we would have asked for.

Those people we tip upwards of 30%. We don't do that all that often though.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:45 PM

59. My dad,

after being thoroughly embarrassed after having lunch at a restaurant with his church group vowed to never go to a restaurant with them again. He paid most of the tip, making sure it was 20% (if not more).

The next Sunday he did a whole Sunday School lesson on the verse "the worker is worthy of his wages" - reminding the (adult) class that servers depend on their tips it was their responsibility to pay them well.

He taught his children that if you can't leave a good tip, stay home.

We recently threw a private party at a local restaurant for my parent's 65th wedding anniversary and afterwards he checked with us to make sure we took good care of the two servers. They split 18% that was automatically charged to the bill and we gave each $30 extra. Dad was pleased.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #59)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:33 PM

81. Your father is earning his place in heaven.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #81)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:41 PM

85. Yeah, he's a great guy.

He hates injustice.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:03 PM

62. when I was a server long, long ago (1997-2000)

I got $2.13 an hour plus tips.

I *hated* with an undying passion having to work Sundays. Because these big fucking church crowds would come in, all 10 trillion of them, with their ill behaved children running around like they owned the fucking place, and it was nickle and fucking dime me all 2 hours of their miserable stay. And because they're such cheapskates, their huge party would sit at different tables so they won't be charged the 18% automatic gratuity, but they were one big party, and no one could pay for more than 1 person on their check. Sometimes the fucking KIDS got their own check.

Can I get you anything else?
Oh, a napkin
Anything else?
no
:bring napkin back to table:
Oh! Can I get a bottle of ketchup?
sure, anyone else need anything
(in unison) no
:bring back ketchup:
Oh! Can I get a completely worthless item from the kitchen, like 4 croutons or 1/2 pack of saltines?
Sure, anyone else need anything?
(in unison)
no
:bring back 1/2 pack of saltines and 4 croutons:
Oh! can I get....

Meanwhile my other tables are steaming mad because I'm ignoring them because of the ridiculous demands of these folks.

Then the complaints (actual complaints I had when I was server)

* My iced tea is too cold
* This water doesn't taste like any water I've ever had. Can you get me some more? But from a different place?
* My mashed potatoes are too potatey.
* do you have crushed ice? No. Can you please go crush some for me?

All the while calling me away from other tables, coming up to me as I'm delivering food to other tables, (love this one) SNAPPING THEIR FINGERS IN THE AIR AT ME, changing orders halfway through the food being cooked. Deciding after they got their hamburger that they think they'd REALLLLLY like a chicken sandwich so can I go pull one magically out my ass and put it on the table so they can eat with everyone else


And anyways, after all of this, I'd get some shitty tip. I'm not talking 15% instead of 20 (shit, I was LUCKY GIRL to get 20% ever. Everyone was). For a $50 lunch for mom dad & their kids (all separate fucking checks for some reason) I'd get $3. IF i'm lucky. Usually nothing. Often some sticky-ass pennies and a canadian quarter thrown on the table.

And what a mess they'd leave. Without fail SOMEONE would break a jar of malt vinegar (it was a seafood restaurant) and leave the section smelling like nasty feet all day. Food everywhere, Salt shakers opened and dumped out. Oh look, someone poured their coke inside the stacked dishes so me, not knowing this, pick up the dishes and am now soaked in a briny mixture of watered down coke, half chewed french fries, malt vinegar, ketchup and fish stick crumblings. Mmm.

When I was a server, there was universal hatred for the church crowds JUST for this reason (shitty customers with no manners and shitty tips) and universal hatred for the bus tours that old folks take, and all 70 of them would just show up without notice (who needs to know 70 people are walking in the door at lunch time on a friday???) order everything special, hamburger without the bun, cheeseburger without the cheese, can I get a salad without veggies, just a plate of croutons and dressing? Iced tea without the ice, and leave NOTHING. NO. THING. No pennies. No shitty note on the check .NOT A THING. And because they're 70 people in parties of 4 at 20 different tables (the whole restraurant basically) there's no automatic gratuity. You just slave away and it's totally slavery because you're getting taxed on tips you're not even receiving.

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Response to Heddi (Reply #62)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:38 PM

82. Oooh oooh. I remember this time this woman made me make her salad from the salad bar!

I still remember her mean little face as she said, "And I want a salad from the salad bar and I want YOU to make it for me." And I did. And no tip of course.

And I remember that group for another reason. They were a church group, and right before they came in one of the owners of the restaurant ran around taking the ashtrays off the tables "because this group won't smoke" and do you know every single one of them smoked all through their meal and left the ashes on the table tops.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #82)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:42 PM

86. YOU had to make HER a salad?

Oh come on. I love having a salad bar option...then I can cram as many lbs of ranch dressing, egg salad, baco's and croutons on a single peice of lettuce as humanly possible. I'm not leaving that in the hands of another! Hells to the no. Get up and make your own damn salad...

I'd have filled it with the junk no one eats (but me)...sliced beets, pickled okra, that bean salad shit, hot pepper flakes and thousand island dressing. Mmm!

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Response to Heddi (Reply #62)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:35 PM

104. Ah yes, the bus tour....guess how I handled it?

I was working at a Pizza Hut and a huge friggin load of people swarmed in like a hoard of zombies. They took up every table and there was one server besides myself We both worked so hard to get everyone taken care of at once . When they left, we looked around and there was no tip. NONE!

So , I got in my car and drove in the direction of the hotel they were staying at....luckily they were walking there from PH. I saw the leader in the dark, his white hair stood out in the moonlight plus it helped he was so tall. I was not happy , no siree. So I jumped out of my car and let the "leader" who I found in front of the pack, know that they had "forgotten" to tip us. He then gave me $20.00. He actually seemed "shocked" I would confront him. All 4'10" of me.....grrrrrr.

The manager said I was crazy and could get fired for that, but then just laughed and shook his head.

(I really could have used more smilies....)



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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:04 PM

63. In defense of non-Baptists

I go out once a month w/ women from my church. They are all good tippers. In fact, the one woman who is a daughter-in-law and non-religious was responsible for the tip for 3 people one time. My friend (one of the 3 - called me after they left and asked me to give the server another $5 as the non-religious woman had not left enough.

I used to hate waiting on women as they were bad tippers back in the day. I'm proud to be a part of a group of women, who are also church-goers, and who are nearly all good tippers.

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Response to OldHippieChick (Reply #63)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:39 PM

84. That's good. It is unfair to paint all church-goers as bad tippers.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:29 PM

79. Church offerings are mostly not charity. They are dues to keep the club going.

Take away the club dues and I bet you will find that the average regular church-goer is substantially less generous to charity than the average atheist.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:00 PM

89. My Mom & Grandmom (both non-church goers) are awful tippers

So much so that I won't go out to eat with them. Not a problem since we live 3,000 miles away but when we *did* live close it was embarassing.

We had gone to a chinese buffet place. Okay, I get it, the server isn't taking an order and bringing it and all that, but it's not like they get a better salary because they work in a buffet. THey still get the same $2.15 or whatever an hour and live on tips.

So it was me, Mr. Heddi, my mom & her boyfriend, and my grandmother. SO 5 people, and they're smoking and getting tea refills every 3 seconds and hey, we're a fat family (except for my husband), it was crab legs on the buffet so lots of dirty dishes.

Bill comes and granny pays for her & my mom & her boyfriend. Goes to leave a $3 on a $50 bill. I was SO LIVID. I said "you can't leave $3" and they're like "Well all she did was bring us tea" I said that it didn't matter, she still got less than $3 an hour and lived on tips. My grandmother said "Well if I had to pay more than a dollar I couldn't afford to go out to eat" I said WELL THEN DON'T GO OUT TO EAT.

They wouldn't budge, and then my mom tried to be all dramatic "here, let me write her a check for her monthly rent..." I told them not to bother and covered their portion of the tip, as well as ours.

It was so embarrassing and variations of this has happened in other non-buffet places. "Oh well she only gets a dollar because it took her 8 seconds to refill my iced tea"

---
Last night my husband and I went out to a pub. Got some cole slaw and fries to go and had a few beers. 2 of the beers were on the server because we tip NEVER less than 30%, and we always round up. If 30% tip is say $8, and I don't have any 1's but a 10 or 2 5's, they'll get $10. It's just good manners. And we're treated nicely with good service and comp beers. SO when we got the bill, I knew she knocked 2 beers off and so the tip she got was on what the total bill WOULD have been, not what it was.

Another bar we used to go to, we would tip way good and get comped usually 1/2 of everythign we drank. But again, we tipped based on what the bill would have been without the comps. So every free beer I get, the waiter gets $2. It's good for him/her and it's good for me. My bill in the end is still cheaper but they're not getting less of a tip because of the comp. It's only fair

i used to be a server, and I got many $0.00 paychecks at the end of the week because everything was eaten in taxes. And I had to split my tips with the bussers (who got minimum wage) and the cooks (who got minimum wage) and the bartender (who got minimum wage PLUS his own tips he got to keep to himself and not split) and it's hard fucking living.

My husband and I are both nurses and we make a decent salary, and I can afford to be generous with tips with the waitstaff. It's only fair, I think. I'm not going to miss that extra $2 bringing an $8 to $10, but it can help them out. SO I do it. Maybe one day my income will not be what it is and I'll have to go back to regular old 20% but I'm happy to pay extra to make up for the people who pay nothing, or leave $1 or pennies or a Jack CHick tract.

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Response to Heddi (Reply #89)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 09:36 PM

102. My parents are religious, and they know to leave a proper tip.


They also take Jesus' words about not praying in public to mean that they shouldn't have a Pavlovian reaction of bowing, and saying a prayer, when a plate is placed before them at a restaurant.

There is this friend of their's, from church and school activities, who was at a Chinese buffet with them once, and she made it expressly clear that waitstaff at buffets shouldn't get anything of a tip, because it's not full service. When my mom told me this, I responded with "They do get something, even if it's not full service, someone does tend to your table. Right?" Mom concurred. This friend is frugal in so many ways in her life, nothing wrong with that, but she really shouldn't find convenient excuses to stiff waitstaff.

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Response to Heddi (Reply #89)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:04 AM

111. The Jack Chick tracts!

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:30 PM

91. Empirical studies show

 

that peoples and communities continuously exposed to ethically uplifting speech act more utilitarian that e.g. society exposed to consumerist and egotistic propaganda. This is not a theist-atheist divide, but matter of basic social psychology.

Preachers who speak about love and caring and what connects us, get it. Advertisers who advertise power of money, control and manipulation and mass hypnosis also "get it" in their much more limited and less informed way.



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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:53 PM

95. Sort of a misleading headline....

It really doesn't "bust" any myths. Just provides some anecdotal information.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:57 PM

96. my wife was a waitress for years and....

sunday noon crowd,women`s play dates at the country club,and women`s clubs were the worse tippers.

the old saying is the best tippers are hookers , waiters, and waitresses.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:10 AM

112. I'm a Christian and always tip 20%,

so I don't appreciate the generalization. However, I don't belong to or attend any church or organized religion and therefore I don't tithe to any of these buildings/groups/corporations. I prefer to donate to charities, and take care of my family, friends and neighbors with generous contributions where I see the need.

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