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Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:49 PM

You want to know why Obama Admin is Wrong on Drone Killings?

COMMENT BY OP:
Many DU'ers say that the Bush/Obama Policy on killing is justified. You say that we need to be "Safe from Terrorist Plots" and if someone is found here in USA or Abroad by our "Intelligence Forces" as being Involved or Connected in Any Way with "Anti-American Activities that we have the right to pursue them in any place in America where they might be suspect and if they or their relatives or children are abroad (whether studying or working or backpacking through countries on college break or whatever) that THEY and their PARENTS can be TAKEN OUT on some kind of "Intelligence Information" that is not overseen by laws in a court of justice but based on our Executive in Chief and the Legacy of Bush Operatives in our faulty Intelligence Agencies who might mean well but have their OWN flaws along with their own objectives. I think the ACLU's Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of ACLU has some very persuasive arguments about WHY this IS NOT TRUE...and WHY the PEOPLE of USA should be very concerned about how these Targeted Assassinations go forward in conflict with our American Constitution.

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Kill List Exposed: Leaked Obama Memo Shows Assassination of U.S. Citizens "Has No Geographic Limit"


The Obama administration’s internal legal justification for assassinating U.S. citizens without charge has been revealed for the first time. In a secret Justice Department memo, the administration claims it has legal authority to assassinate U.S. citizens overseas even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the United States. We’re joined by Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "If you look at the memo ... there’s no geographic line," says Jaffer. "The Obama administration is making, in some ways, a greater claim of authority . They’re arguing that the authority to kill American citizens has no geographic limit."

TRANSCRIPT from ACLU's Jmeel Jaffer speaking with Amy Goodman, HERE:

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/2/5/kill_list_exposed_leaked_obama_memo

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply You want to know why Obama Admin is Wrong on Drone Killings? (Original post)
KoKo Feb 2013 OP
MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #1
forestpath Feb 2013 #5
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #9
Bainbridge Bear Feb 2013 #16
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #18
KakistocracyHater Feb 2013 #19
MNBrewer Feb 2013 #21
KakistocracyHater Feb 2013 #22
bigwillq Feb 2013 #10
Logical Feb 2013 #33
EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #2
randome Feb 2013 #4
Flying Squirrel Feb 2013 #23
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #3
KoKo Feb 2013 #32
Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #34
abelenkpe Feb 2013 #6
KoKo Feb 2013 #7
WillyT Feb 2013 #8
Peace_Sells Feb 2013 #11
DirkGently Feb 2013 #12
liberalmuse Feb 2013 #13
Flying Squirrel Feb 2013 #24
plethoro Feb 2013 #14
green for victory Feb 2013 #27
plethoro Feb 2013 #29
oldbanjo Feb 2013 #15
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #17
quadrature Feb 2013 #20
quaker bill Feb 2013 #25
xchrom Feb 2013 #26
Soundman Feb 2013 #28
Solly Mack Feb 2013 #30
Lars39 Feb 2013 #31

Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:52 PM

1. I keep thinking of the explosion this would cause if BUSH was still in the WH

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:06 PM

5. The double standard is mind boggling.

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:55 PM

9. DU would be red hot with condemnation.

But with a Democrat in the White House, barely a peep.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:52 PM

16. In other words

 

It's not evil when WE do it. This is just another symptom of why Chris Hedges states that the Liberal class is dead.

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Response to Bainbridge Bear (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:54 PM

18. The Republic is dead.

The Liberal Class has helped kill it off

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:00 PM

19. HELL NO, the Democratic Class is dead, I've heard

MANY times on this site-this is NOT a Liberal site it is a Dem site.

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Response to KakistocracyHater (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:23 PM

21. Hence the death of the Republic

and yes, it's not liberal OR progressive, if that's not what the Dems want at the moment.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:58 AM

22. technically isn't America a Democratic Republic?

not just plain 'Republic'?

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 08:00 PM

10. ....

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:56 PM

33. Yes, and then the long boring posts trying to justify it. Amazing. n-t

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:54 PM

2. So many paranoid hypotheticals. nt

 

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:58 PM

4. I still say it's the sinister-sounding word 'drone' that gets them going.

A law or a 'finding' isn't going to stop anyone from killing anyone anytime they want. I'm sure Obama is salivating at the thought of fighting 300 million people.

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Response to randome (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:18 AM

23. I'm sure you forgot the :sarcasm: tag

But in a thread such as this you might wanna put that in there.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:55 PM

3. There is so little left of our constitution

I'm not surprised by the apathy.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:51 PM

32. There is a campaign on the internets...to say..Constitution doesn't matter...

If you are around the net...it's there in comments..being put out as a "meme" hoping that it will catch on. It's even here...a lot.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 08:37 AM

34. Doesn't matter?

That is truly frightening.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:08 PM

6. they and their parents? relatives? children?

wtf?

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:42 PM

7. If you are "associated with Threats to USA by blood or fraternization..

you can be targeted as a "conspirator."

It even goes back to Michael Moore's "9/11" to see what was being done then with GOV'T infiltrators into Peace gatherings where people were protesting Iraq Invasion.

If you consort or have any kind of distant relationship with someone designated Terrorists by US Govt Intelligence Agencies...you and your relatives, friends could be monitored and whether here or Abroad..no matter how distant the relationship...if YOU are targeted...then the rest of your family or associates wherever they live are travel are "TARGETS" also. That's how broad the Memo (White Paper) legal argument goes.

Why do you think the ACLU is all over it?

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 07:43 PM

8. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!


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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:26 PM

11. I'm glad someone is speaking out.

It is so amazing how many "liberals" look the other way when it comes to things like this.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:29 PM

12. This is the logic and morality of a rogue state. The U.S. will never be a credible

authority on just or rational or even simply coherent human or civil rights policy while we clutch this twitching snake to our collective breast.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:37 PM

13. This DUer is too stunned to comment.

I can't digest this - how can anyone justify drone killings of Americans??? Jeez, I guess when the Republicans made their desperate grab for power during the Bush the 2nd years, they never once thought about how their Justice Department under a "librul" might use or abuse it. I would like to hear a statement from President Obama on this. I remember how Bush II was voraciously padding all offices of government with right wing, PNAC-loving ideologues as the days of his being in power were winding down.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:32 AM

24. Drone killings or ANY killings

And what the hell does geographical location have to do with anything? Unless the American is, say, in a terrorist training camp somewhere that we are taking out (in another country) I see no reason why they should be a target for assassination. If you know where they are, have them arrested and extradited.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:46 PM

14. This is mind-boggling. We have become a prison state, and

 

what comes next will be an even greater horror.

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Response to plethoro (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:46 AM

27. 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a training manual

 

Nineteen Eighty-Four is a dystopian and satirical novel set in Oceania, where society is tyrannized by the Party and its totalitarian ideology. The Oceanian province of Airstrip One is a world of perpetual war, omnipresent government surveillance, and public mind control, dictated by a political system euphemistically named English Socialism (Ingsoc) under the control of a privileged Inner Party elite that persecutes all individualism and independent thinking as thoughtcrimes




George Orwell was a prophets prophet- and most people were too stupid to heed his words. Now we've got pretty much exactly what he wrote about.


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Response to green for victory (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:16 PM

29. Yes, I've read Orwell's book a few times, but, admittedly, not

 

for awhile. Carl Sagan warned of this too.
“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness
..."
In my opinion it is past flashpoint and can not be turned back. We are a fascist state and that picture you posted from 1984 the movie could actually be someone we know rather well...

My wife and I will be dead long before the end and our only child will be left to deal with it. This is why my wife and I, ages 68 and 67, still work over a hundred hours a week to make sure she'll have enough money to survive. She elected not to bring any children into this wretched world and so she will end our family. The thing I am most curious about is how will the actual end happen? Will they simply round up the people and shoot them, or will they simply work them to death? Will they collect unwelcome children and gas them? Will the people still be allowed to have houses or will they be assigned to work camps, concrete huts or whatever?

I am now taking it day-by-day and do the best for my diabetics that I monitor and Alzheimer's patients I do volunteer work for. But I am running out of hope and steam together. Well, sorry to drone on, green. Please accept my apology. When you are the one always in charge there is no one left to talk to. Later.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:49 PM

15. Just think if Romney was in office he could get rid

of the 47%. They should do something like Israel does before they kill someone. The US has made a lot of bad choices in the last 12-15 years. We are more like Russia every day.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 09:53 PM

17. K&R

 

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2013, 10:14 PM

20. kill on sight... there are rules

first rule is, must be a war situation. I suppose you could argue that Yemen is a war zone.

on top of that, killings must be performed by
sworn-in military.

if done by civilians,
killings are murders.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:30 AM

25. Hundreds of thousands dead

but it is the +/-3 dead Americans which are problem? If I have read correctly, the three dead Americans were in fact at some level hooked up with Al-Queda (making speeches and videos) and/or were killed with and in the company of a group of foriegn Al-Queda members.

I oppose killing on any premise, whether killed are citizens or foriegn nationals. I oppose killing by any means, be it drones, or snipers, or lethal injection after "due process". However in the context of the 100s of thousands of foriegn nationals we have killed without trial or due process over this specific issue, I cannot find the means to get particularly bent over the fact that three of them were citizens. "But-But they had rights!" (How is it that everyone does not have the right to not be killed, regardless of where they were born?)

We shoot fleeing felons all the time, well before any indictment or trial. I am not a fan of this, but it is done on a nearly if not daily basis, and typically no one goes to jail over it. Forgive me, but in the context of the middle east mess, the fact that we are treating a few involved Americans just the same as the involved foriegn nationals does not seem a big issue to me. Once you start killing people as a means to solve problems, these sorts of things are bound to happen.

The better choice is just to stop killing people, regardless of where they were born.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:32 AM

26. du rec. nt

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:30 AM

28. Obama is doing what he said he would do.

 

And I am damn glad he is.

There is a militant element that has hijacked an otherwise peaceful religion. They are evil and have an evil agenda. We are at war with these people. If you choose to stand with them American or not, you should get what you deserve. And in this case you deserve no quarter because of your nationality.

I am proud of our president and his foreign policy. He has done exactly what he said he would do.

I think the larger issue we should be discussing is the use of drones on our own soil. I am glad to see some are taking a proactive approach to this matter already.

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:17 PM

30. K&R

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Response to KoKo (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:33 PM

31. No geographic limit....so drones could kill here in the US.

Lovely. Just lovely. Remember when Junior called teachers terrorists? How far did he want to go with that label? Quick way to bust unions for good...just kill the union leaders and their families with a drone strike. Oops, meant to get the terrorists next door.
Or down the road, with a Republican president wanting to do away with a Democratic candidate they can't beat?

Not good at all.

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