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Tue Feb 5, 2013, 06:18 PM

CALIFORNIA PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION HOLDS PUBLIC FORUM ON PEAKER POWER PLANTS; QUAIL BRUSH OPPONE

February 4, 2013 (San Diego)-- In a public hearing Friday, Public Utilities Commission Representative Denise Tyrrell listened to the concerns of over 500 San Diego citizens regarding three proposed peaker gas-fired power plants, including the Cogentrix and San Diego Gas and Electric (SDG&E) plan to develop Quail Brush,near Mission Trails Regional Park. Other proposed plants were Pio Pico in the Otay area and the Wellhead Escondido Energy Center.

Hundreds of citizens wearing bright shirts formed a sea of orange, many rising to speak and urge denial of the Quail Brush application. Blue-shirted members of the Environmental Health Coalition turned out in opposition to all three projects. Residents and other groups from across the county also came to oppose the projects, which collectively drew just a single voice in support.

Pete Hasapopoulus of the Sierra Club asked why San Diego Gas and Electric and Cogentrix, the Applicant, were not present? Former Assemblywoman Lori Saldana suggested that perhaps pressures behind the scenes could explain the absence of SDG&E and Cogentrix. “This is like a game of polo. This is what we see above the water,” she told the CPUC representative, suggesting that what under the water line, the pushing and shoving, is outside of the public’s view.

http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/12380



This is part of the ongoing policy discussion on Energy and the conflict between green energy and fossil fuels. It is also about politics and the abuse by utilities to get their way, never mind in this case the opposition is not just local and county wide, but with emails sent to the CPUC state wide.

So this is my local utility. In general utilities nation wide act this way because they rarely are told no. Though that is starting to happen a tad more often.

29 replies, 1951 views

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Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply CALIFORNIA PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION HOLDS PUBLIC FORUM ON PEAKER POWER PLANTS; QUAIL BRUSH OPPONE (Original post)
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 OP
JustJoe Feb 2013 #1
SidDithers Feb 2013 #2
Starry Messenger Feb 2013 #3
CreekDog Feb 2013 #4
SidDithers Feb 2013 #5
2ndAmForComputers Feb 2013 #7
SidDithers Feb 2013 #8
CreekDog Feb 2013 #12
SidDithers Feb 2013 #13
CreekDog Feb 2013 #15
SidDithers Feb 2013 #16
CreekDog Feb 2013 #25
SidDithers Feb 2013 #26
CreekDog Feb 2013 #27
SidDithers Feb 2013 #28
CreekDog Feb 2013 #29
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #10
octoberlib Feb 2013 #6
Robb Feb 2013 #9
SidDithers Feb 2013 #11
ellisonz Feb 2013 #14
badtoworse Feb 2013 #17
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #18
badtoworse Feb 2013 #19
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #20
badtoworse Feb 2013 #21
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #22
badtoworse Feb 2013 #23
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #24

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:41 AM

1. k&r

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:53 AM

2. DU Rec...nt

Sid

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:23 AM

4. kick

no, i don't like how you were treated, even though we often disagree.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:41 AM

5. You locked your Meta thread right after making a post in it attacking me...

Poor form, CreekDog. Poor form.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:17 AM

7. He locked because THIS thread stayed. Not everything is about you.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:02 AM

8. ...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:45 PM

12. Sid, you've attacked me multiple times, falsely on this issue already

if you feel deprived of the opportunity, then you should not be a host, as that would make you unfit.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:50 PM

13. Whatever...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:17 PM

15. toxic

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:18 PM

16. But I'm attacking you...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:51 PM

25. what's your point here? do you wish Zappaman was still a host?

as for just leaving it to GD hosts to deal with, which is not a rule, Zappa wasn't listening to his fellow hosts, he wasn't even listening to Skinner.

but all your effort was focused on not having me talk about it.

you asked me to butt out in the group. you misrepresented and attacked me in Meta.

and for what? you were laughably wrong on this, Zappa's behavior as host ended his hosting, which he clearly did unfairly.

you're just wrong. period. you sided with the bully and asked the people who didn't think the treatment was fair to be quiet.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:15 PM

26. No. I told you if you were going to attack the Hosts, to do it in Meta...

where the entire membership could participate in the discussion.

And it told you to butt out of the discussion of whether the thread should be unlocked, the GD Hosts were handling it, you're not a GD Host, and all you were doing was creating noise and cluttering up the discussion.

Did you want me to post screenshots of my posts?

I've replied to you numerous times, because you continue to misrepresent what I've said on the issue, and because you've misrepresented the decision making process, and the timeline that went into the lock. Even now, you continue to misrepresent my posts. I can posts the screencaps to clear it up, if that's what it will take.

I didn't side with anyone. Not once did I agree or disagree with the lock. It's not my place to do that. I'm not a GD Host. I only pointed out to you that the decision to lock was made by 2 GD Hosts, after a discussion thread had been open in the Host forum for nearly an hour, and not one of the other 18 GD Hosts decided to comment. Another GD hosts voiced lukewarm support of the lock 15 minutes after it happened. It wasn't until 4 and a half hours after the lock, that the another GD Host posted that they thought the thread should be unlocked. As I posted elsewhere, maybe your issue should be with the 17 GD Hosts who did nothing for 5 and a half hours, and not the 3 who actually discussed the thread.

During that time, you were all over the original discussion thread and then you started a new discussion thread in Hosts, which contributed nothing but noise, and confused the situation that the GD Hosts were working through. Your discussion thread was particularly out of place.

Your ramped up a fairly minor situation into a disaster of epic proportions, and it finally took Skinner to lock both your thread and the original Hosts discussion thread to shut the whole thing down.

Skinner has said to let it go. I've said my piece now, and I'm done.

You should follow his advice too.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #26)


Response to CreekDog (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:37 PM

28. Sigh...

you still don't get it.

I'm done. Enjoy your anger.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:39 PM

29. enjoy following me around

and pretending you didn't tell me to take it to Meta and then attacking me dishonestly there when I did.

and one of the hosts you're defending, IS NOT A HOST ANYMORE.

good job. you rock.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 10:26 AM

10. If we agreed on everything life would be boring

But we can disagree without being disagreeable.

To me this is about energy policy and the conflict of green and older technologies.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:58 AM

6. K&R!

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 08:07 AM

9. INTERESTING STORY. CAN YOU EDIT OUT THE CAPS?

Thanks.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:15 PM

11. Kick...nt

Sid

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 12:52 PM

14. To the greatest!

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:48 PM

17. With too much wind and solar on it, there is a risk the power grid will become unstable at times

We don't have the technology to maintain a reliable power grid without a substantial amount of combustion turbine capacity. As we add more wind and solar generation, the need becomes more acute.

It sounds great to say we want only renewable energy, but the people saying that usually have no understanding of how power grids are controlled.

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Response to badtoworse (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 02:51 PM

18. And one CPUC commissioner recommended against approval already

As an administrative judge. The reason, they are not needed and present capacity is enough.

Also a smart grid technology diminishes a lot of the issues with load.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:29 PM

19. There may be enough CT capacity now; I don't know the specifics of this case.

The analysis is complicated and many times the need for capacity is driven by local transmission constraints. I know that San Diego is getting a considerable amount of wind and solar power from the new Sunrise Powerlink transmission line and that generation cannot be controlled. If there isn't enough fast response capacity to balance generation with load, then the need to shed load will occur more frequently - that's undeniable.

Smart grid technology would help, but do they have enough of it installed to solve the problem? I don't know about SDGE, but I haven't seen a great rush on the part of utilities to install the technology. Another question: Will consumers accept having their power curtailed with no notice? I wouldn't unless the deal was just too good to pass up.

It will be interesting to see what happens in California in the next 7 years. They have mandated a 33% RPS by 2020 which will make electricity substantially more expensive. I'm expecting the whining to start in the 2017 - 2018 when California reserve margins start to get tight.

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Response to badtoworse (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:43 PM

20. San Diego already has one of the most expensive markets in the US

Also emerging technologies, including solar with battery banks, will help solve a lot of this.

From covering the local energy utility I can tell you SDG&E is all but a good corporate neighbor, and the locations chosen, especially in mission trails, was a huge wtf over? It's designated open space and Santee is a punch bowl valley, with already higher levels of pollution.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:52 PM

21. You seem better informed on this issue that I am

I've worked in the power business for 30 years and in my opinion, California is moving too quickly given the technology that is available and cost effective now.

It would be great if they can make battery storage, fly wheels, smart grid, etc. work reliably at reasonable cost. In any case, I'm happy to watch how things work out there from New Jersey.

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Response to badtoworse (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 03:57 PM

22. It's one of my beats. Also been following the development of storage battery systems,

Being led by Germany. The big downside to the battery banks ( quick, don't tell the Sierra Club) is what to do with nickel cadmium batteries at the end of their useful life.

But...there will always be a down side.

As to the speed (San Diego is on target to meet it by 2020) one logic, we'll see if it pans out, is tht this will encourage innovation.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:03 PM

23. The Chinese have recently bought a stake in A123 which was doing a lot of work with lithium

It will be interesting to see what they do with that - they were certainly a factor in reducing the cost of soalr panels.

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Response to badtoworse (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:08 PM

24. Yup

But they have come to realize economic growth, with the levels of pollution they have, are not sustainable.

It is a very complex issue to say the least. I used to read fiction for the most part. I will get soon to the latest National Academy of Sciences paper on ocean energy (currents). They released the white paper yesterday. First I need some coffee

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