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Fri Jan 27, 2012, 07:55 PM

La Cage aux Jim Crow: The New Bill That Would Shut Gays Out of Society

For decades now, people have attempted to compare the modern gay rights movement to the famed American civil rights movement of the 1960s. And for every comparison made, some blacks have vocally decried them as being inapt. Writing for USA Today last year, black journalist Ellis Cose called the gay rights-black rights comparison a "false equivalency." Anti-black racism, he wrote, "was relentlessly oppressive, as entire communities were cordoned off and disadvantage was handed down through generations. With gays, we are not looking at roped-off communities."

A shocking new bill in New Hampshire may be enough to change the minds of Cose and his ilk.

This week, the House judiciary committee of the New Hampshire state legislature convened to discuss a bill that would allow businesses to refuse accommodations, goods, or services to gays getting married. New Hampshire legalized same-sex marriage in 2010, though with the caveat that churches and other religious groups could refuse to participate in same-sex ceremonies. The new bill would take that rule a step further, allowing a bakery to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, for instance.

The New Hampshire legislature has taken a hard-right turn of late, prompted by the comeuppance of a group of ultra-conservative Tea Party candidates in the last elections. In December 2011, a trio of freshman House Republicans drafted a bill that would require every bill about individual rights and freedoms to "include a direct quote from the Magna Carta," the centuries-old English proclamation.

If African-Americans—or anyone else, for that matter, would like to continue to argue that the gay rights movement bears no strong resemblance to the civil rights movement, I'd suggest they take a serious look at this new bill in New Hampshire. Indeed, while there are currently no anti-gay, Jim Crow-style blockades at Americans businesses, it's not for lack of trying.


http://www.good.is/post/la-cage-aux-jim-crow-the-new-bill-that-would-shut-gays-out-of-society/

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Reply La Cage aux Jim Crow: The New Bill That Would Shut Gays Out of Society (Original post)
n2doc Jan 2012 OP
PDJane Jan 2012 #1
Honeycombe8 Jan 2012 #2
FreeState Jan 2012 #3
Honeycombe8 Jan 2012 #5
FreeState Jan 2012 #6
mitchtv Jan 2012 #7
Honeycombe8 Jan 2012 #9
xchrom Jan 2012 #14
MNBrewer Jan 2012 #17
Veruca Salt Jan 2012 #18
Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #19
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2012 #21
FreeState Jan 2012 #27
dbackjon Jan 2012 #28
xfundy Jan 2012 #8
Morning Dew Jan 2012 #13
yardwork Jan 2012 #29
xchrom Jan 2012 #10
bullwinkle428 Jan 2012 #11
fascisthunter Jan 2012 #12
MNBrewer Jan 2012 #16
The Philosopher Jan 2012 #23
Fearless Jan 2012 #24
yardwork Jan 2012 #30
Mopar151 Jan 2012 #4
Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #15
mailman82 Jan 2012 #20
Rex Jan 2012 #22
Fearless Jan 2012 #25
Posteritatis Jan 2012 #26

Response to n2doc (Original post)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 08:45 PM

1. There are no words.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:05 PM

2. Terrible bill. And I doubt businesses will do that.

I doubt businesses will do that, since it would cost them too much money. But a bill like that shouldn't exist, anyway. If sexual orientation is covered by the federal equal protection laws, that law will be stricken down. I can't recall if that is included in those laws, though.

Still, I do think gay rights and rights for blacks are very different. Many, if not most, male gays in the U.S. are white men...the pinnacle of existence in our country. Many of them are educated and wealthy. Their parents and other family members were probably not gay, so their families don't have a history of facing direct discrimination. And the gay people didn't inherit lowered education equality or monetary gain because their parents were denied equal opportunity. And of course, there isn't a history of slavery of gays in America. Also consider that before gay rights, gays could hide their status, and live a life of non-discrimination. That was not the case for most Af. Americans. It would be like you going back to the 1960's and putting a big red cushioned collar around your neck, to advertise that you are gay. You wouldn't have gotten the same jobs that you could if it had not been known you were gay.

I am white and not gay, so I don't have a horse in the race. But I do see the discrimination faced by the two groups as very different. That doesn't mean that one kind of discrimination is bad, but the other isn't. But what does it matter? Both types of discrimination are shameful and should not exist in any society. It's not a contest.

The discrimination against women is yet again another type of discrimination. Do I need to remind anyone that black men got the vote before white women? And got the right to own property before a white married woman?

But of all the groups discriminated against in our country, it has to be the black female who has had it the worst. Make her older and overweight, and you have the bottom of the bottom in our country. The one that waitresses look past and don't see, the one that is hired last and fired first, the one that the bakery worker doesn't feel the need to be polite to, the one who gets paid the least of all the adult groups.

There are plentry of groups to claim discrimination. It's not a contest. It's all bad.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:14 PM

3. I'm sure some business would do that

There are zero federal protections for LGBT workers in the private sector. It's perfectly legal to fire some for simply being gay in 38 states.

Your comments disturb me in that it's assume GLBT persone are male and white. Gays are in every community, every gender and every background. There were black gay slaves. Gays can not hide who they are, nor should we have to. Your right all discrimination is bad, it's not a contest.

While what all minorities have experienced is different, the methods and the stigmas are very similar.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:25 PM

5. I've seen some stats over the years. And there's a group of Log Cabin Republicans.

I think they are all or most white and wealthy.

There are gays across all economic classes, just like all other groups. I didn't say all gays are white, wealthy, & educated. But compare it to the black community (the wealth and education), and you'd see a difference. That's Inot bad. But when a nice looking white suited man walks into a bakery, most bakeries are going to do their fastest to whip up a cake for him, in the hopes he'll come back. That's a customer who can afford to buy more cakes. I imagine a few businesses might refuse service, but I doubt most will. When businesses refused service to blacks years ago, they weren't losing much business, since Af. Americans didn't have much money, anyway. Besides, non-gay customers wouldn't like it, whereas non-black customers didn't care, or agreed with, refusing service to black people. That's just what I think.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:44 PM

6. Gay men make less money than straight men

The last stats I saw was that gay males make the same as heterosexual women on average.

Gay men do not make a lot of money.
Gay men and women are refused service and employment every day.
Plenty of non-gay people aplaude discrimination against LGBT people.

Compairing Log Cabin republicans as a whole for the LGBT community is rediculas. There are wealthy and well educated black americans as well. It would be absurd to take the small amount that are and claim its true of all black Americans. Close to 90% of gay voters are democrats. Over 37% of gay Americans are not white. By 2024 it's expected to be over 50%.

It's estimated that 50% of homeless youth are gay - their families either kicked them out or abandoned their needs.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 10:41 PM

7. +1 thank you

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Response to FreeState (Reply #6)


Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:15 PM

14. why do you use right wing descriptions of our community?

http://www.quora.com/Are-gay-men-paid-less-than-straight-men-for-the-same-work

Yes, gay men earn 10% to 32% less than otherwise similar heterosexual men. (See referenced studies at the bottom of this answer)
The full truth, however, is even more insidious.

In many U.S. states (not to mention many places outside the U.S.) a person may be fired for being gay.
While the law states that an employer cannot fire a person for their sex, race, etc. - in 20+ states, it is 100% legal for an employer to fire an employee solely because he is gay.

There are many documented cases of this (including teachers, hotel workers, and others).. and we can presume there are many undocumented cases of this.

Obviously an unemployed person is paid less than an employed person -- however, being terminated often has a long-lasting affect on your future salary. An average man who is steadily employed across five years will have a better resume and more experience than a man who has a significant gap in his employment history. The steadily employed man is more likely to work his way up the ladder and receive more responsibilities/a promotion/a salary increase. In a poor economy with high unemployment rates, this effect is magnified.


Even if the salary is the same, a gay man will receive less "total compensation."
In cases where a gay man and a straight man receive the same base salary, often times the straight man will qualify for additional benefits that the gay man does not.

Family Health Insurance is a huge example of this: in most states an employer who pays for some/all of a spouse/child's health insurance premium will not be required to provide equal payments for the health insurance of a same-sex partner or the partner's children who have not been legally adopted.

If the employer does choose to extend equal health benefits, the gay man will be required to pay income taxes on the amount paid toward his partner's premiums.

Sometimes, the employer may want to include a same-sex partner on the company's group health coverage, but this may be disallowed by the insurance company's policy.

While health benefits are the most obvious and costly example, at many companies there may be a variety of benefits which are extended to "married couples" that are not extended to same-sex partners.


why do you spout right wing talking points about our community?
i think i know why.
The Myth of Gay Affluence
http://www.outsmartmag.com/issue/i04-01/myth.html

Case number one: On a July night in 1994, high school football star DeMarco McCullum and three friends left their Aldine subdivision and drove south to Montrose. They were out to have some fun and maybe rob some gays. Gays were targeted, according to McCullum, because "they always carry a lot of cash." Before the night was out, Michael J. Burzinski would be dead from a gunshot wound to the back of the head and DeMarco would take his first tentative steps toward Texas’ Death Row.

Case number two: Law professor Joseph Broadus, in testimony before Congress that helped defeat the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, identified homosexual households as "elite" and "not...in need of special civil rights legislation." The average gay household, according to Professor Broadus, earns twice as much as the national average.

Case number three: In 1992, the State of Colorado amended their constitution to prevent state and local governments from extending civil rights protections specifically to gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals. Four years later, the state’s ban was challenged in the U.S. Supreme Court. Clemson University professor James Woodard, appearing for the State of Colorado, testified median annual household income for gays and lesbians exceeded $50,000, 40 percent higher than heterosexual households. Therefore, he argued, gays and lesbians need no special protection because their wealth protects them. The Colorado Amendment was overturned by the Supreme Court. The vote, however, was not unanimous. In an ominous dissenting opinion, joined by Chief Justice William Rehnquist and Clarence Thomas, Anton Scalia cited Woodard’s testimony as evidence that gays’ "disproportionate political power," achieved as a result of their higher incomes, entitled the nongay voters of Colorado to rein in that power through legislation.

Case Number Four: The testimony Professor Broadus gave before Congress about the affluent gay community helped defeat the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and contributed to a climate that allowed the passage of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). DOMA prevents Houstonian Janet Langham from enjoying the generous benefit package of her partner, a successful U.S. attorney. As a "domestic partner," Janet is ineligible. Diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, she was too sick to drive the few miles to attend classes at a local university–classes she took solely to qualify for the meager insurance plan she qualified for as a student. AssistHers, the Houston lesbian support organization, provided transportation to and from campus for Janet. Janet is now president of AssistHers and speaks passionately on the subject of the domestic partner benefits denied to her, benefits denied her, in part, because of the "disproportionate political power" she enjoys as a wealthy member of the GLBT community.


Study finds US gay men earn 23% less than straight men
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2007/10/25/study-finds-us-gay-men-earn-23-less-than-straight-men/

Male co-habiting same-sex couples earn 23% less than married men and 9% less than men who co-habit with a woman, new research released today reveals.

Lesbians are not discriminated against when compared with heterosexual women, the US study found.

The report’s authors conclude that while negative attitudes toward lesbians could affect them, lesbians may benefit from the perception that they are more career-focused and less likely to leave the labour market to raise children than heterosexual women.

According to the study, 18.1 percent of lesbians have children, compared with 49.4 percent of straight women.

“Employers could reasonably infer that a lesbian applicant or current employee will have a stronger attachment to the labour force than will a heterosexual woman,” the authors said.


Poverty in the Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Community
http://www.povertylaw.org/news-and-events/woman-view/Poverty%20in%20the%20Lesbian,%20Gay,%20and%20Bisexual%20Community.html

A groundbreaking analysis of the economic realities faced by lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) people reveals the need for data collection that takes sexual orientation into account. The analysis in the recent report released by the UCLA School of Law’s Williams Institute recommends that policymakers and advocates reexamine policies and procedures which assume that poverty is a problem only among heterosexuals.

The Williams Institute’s analysis shows that poverty is a serious concern for LGB individuals and families:

• A range of characteristics that predict poverty having been accounted for, same-sex couples are significantly more likely to be poor than heterosexual couples.

• In general, lesbian couples have much higher poverty rates than either different-sex couples or gay male couples. Lesbian couples who are 65 or older are twice as likely to be poor as heterosexual married couples.

• Among people 18 to 44, gay/bisexual men and heterosexual men are equally likely to be poor (15 percent versus 13 percent), and lesbian/bisexual women are more likely to be poor than heterosexual women (24 percent versus 19 percent).

• African Americans in same-sex couples and same-sex couples living in rural areas have particularly high poverty rates.

• Children of gay and lesbian partners are twice as likely to be poor as children of heterosexual couples.

• Many more LGB people live in families with very low incomes, defined as 200 percent of the federal poverty level.

• Both gay and lesbian individuals and couples are more likely than married people to receive government cash supports.


Gay and Lesbian Demographics
http://www.urban.org/toolkit/issues/gayresearchfocus.cfm

Lack of a marriage license may cost tens of thousands of dollars—and the loss of a home—when a partner dies.

In more than one in 10 same-sex couples, one partner is 65 years old or older. Census 2000 shows us that 97 percent of U.S. counties have a senior in a same-sex partnership. The greatest numbers of same-sex senior couples live in California, New York, and Florida. Illinois and Arizona also have significant numbers. Prevalence aside, the aging of the gay, lesbian, and bisexual community is not particularly golden for many. These couples cannot be recognized as legally married, so a surviving partner loses financial ground. Survivors are denied the Social Security benefits that married couples get, face heavy taxes on any retirement plan, and get charged an estate tax if they inherit a home, even if it was jointly owned.

Same-sex senior couples are more likely to still be making mortgage payments when one dies. Combined with other financial losses, this higher debt burden puts surviving partners at greater risk of losing their home. Even before a partner's death, these seniors risk losing their home when an elderly partner enters a nursing home. Federal Medicaid law permits a married spouse to remain in the couple's home, but not an unmarried partner.


the lgbtiq community is not all white

TWO CULTURES

Ethnic and Cultural Concerns for LGBT Persons

http://www.aglbical.org/2A%20ETHNIC.htm


list of states with anti gay laws
http://www.hrc.org/laws-and-legislation/state


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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:25 PM

17. Can you name even one person who has been black or female for centuries?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:28 PM

18. Are you serious? Do you not have any concept of gay history at all?

You do realise gay history does not start with Stonewall, correct?

It is people like you who remind me why exactly I need to leave this country for friendlier shores. With friends like that who needs enemies.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:12 PM

19. Such staggering ignorance on display.

You keep harping on Log Cabin Republicans of whom there are a few hundred, as if that means something. Here's the deal. If Straight Whites like you were to vote Democratic at the rate gay people of all races do, there would not be a Republican in office anywhere in the country. So take your Cabin Logs, use them to light a fire, and use the light of the fire to read some history books.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:31 PM

21. Been looking for data along those lines

Have someplace you can point me towards?

Thanks...

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 02:36 PM

27. Heres one

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKN2450662120071024?irpc=932

A search on google for "gay man make less" brings up many many more studies an sites.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 04:41 PM

28. And Hispanic Gay Men too

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 28, 2012, 04:54 AM

8. Wow, you have a bad case of ignorance.

It can be cured. Could you work on that?

I'm hoping you're just really young and can do just a little history research with a mind open to learning facts. Plenty of facts without cancervative spin are out there. GLBT history museums exist, as do newspaper archives showing what happened to "perverts."

People of color couldn't hide who they were, but at least they were able to find protective communities and people who wouldn't judge them using examples of the same ignorance and hatred directed at them from the majority. And I never heard anyone claim sickle cell anemia is God's punishment (although I have no doubt some of the many idiots, racists, "christians" and other cancervatives have done so; they just didn't do it openly, at least not since the 60s).

The damage done to gay men and women through discrimination, misinformation, criminalization and just plain hatred is deep, psychologically scarring for a lifetime. Imagine being afraid to be honest about who you are with your own family—I've known people who were kicked out of the family as Teenagers and forced to live on their own with NOTHING. Even trying to identify someone who will be a friend was terribly risky. Going to places where you could be yourself could get you beaten, killed, arrested, showing up in the local newspaper's CRIME column, which would virtually guarantee losing your job, being blacklisted in your profession, loss of your home, family, friends, everything. Including, sadly, the will to live in too many cases.

You're right, it's not a contest. And it's nowhere near the same.

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Response to xfundy (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:51 AM

13. +1

Excellent post.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 05:10 PM

29. So, according to you I don't exist. I'm a lesbian.

According to you, all or most gay people are wealthy, white men. Their problems are nothing compared to those of women and people of color, who are all presumably straight, under your theory.

Way to disrespect my very existence. How empowering of you, sister.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 10:33 AM

10. breath takingly bigoted -- and yet this post and your subsequent posts are still here. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 10:58 AM

11. Sorry, but this is the same kind of logic that Ron & Rand Paul use when they

talk about the "unnecessary" Civil Rights Act of 1964. They go straight to the financial argument, stating that no business in their right mind would think of turning away customers, simply on the basis of race, and there would be more than enough others willing to take up the slack.

By the way, as far as bakers refusing to make a wedding cake for same sex couple? Already happened in Iowa, just a few weeks ago:

http://www.kcci.com/news/29753206/detail.html

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 11:07 AM

12. that's some ignorant stuff right there

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:24 PM

16. "Many, if not most, male gays in the U.S. are white men"???

What kind of bull crap are you peddling?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:55 PM

23. There's so much wrong with your post

I don't know whether it's just plain disgusting or stupid.

You state that there are stats that show that gays are "mostly white" while also saying we're not having it as bad as the African-American community because we can hide ourselves. Yet, if we can hide ourselves so well, how can you rely on stats at all? Is that you assume that since a person isn't white, their skin keeps them from hiding anything about themselves? Let's not even point out what "hiding" actually means to a gay person and that you make it sound like it isn't consequential.

And then you talk about how there isn't a competition between discriminations, yet go out of your way to point out that African-Americans had it worse because of slavery and that, oddly, females were treated worse than African-Americans because they didn't have the right to vote first (not that they were slaves, too, under different conditions) and that out of all the groups discriminated, "the black female has had it the worst." Sure, that doesn't seem disingenuous at all.

It’s like you see two balls of different colors but aren’t able to see the spherical nature shared by both, “because that one is red; the other isn’t. That blue one isn’t a ball at all and can’t be compared to the red ball! It’s a blue block, is all.” What the LGBT community shares with the African-American community (other than some of us not being white) isn’t slavery--no one in their right mind, except our detractors, says that we do--but a DEHUMANIZING process. If not fought against now, if allowed to go unchecked and even passively approved of (in saying things like, “Oh, you can hide yourself because no one can see your homosexuality, unless you flaunt it!”), it can become an event that’s as horrible as anything you can imagine. Before anyone began looking at us as humans and seeing we were worth dignity, individuals as well as the systems in place jailed us for being who we were, hunted us down to either throw us in cages, torture us or kill us. There are some laws protecting us, but for some--like me--those don’t apply to me. I’m too inhuman. They can kill me at any time if they discovered I was gay and the system would either slap the person’s wrist or cover it up. Preachers would stand up and say I deserved the death and my soul should be prayed for now that I’m burning in Hell. All because I am not human in their eyes. That’s what I share with slavery as a gay person, not that I’m forced with torture and death to be a flesh-and-blood tool for a rich “job creator,” or that that person can override my wishes at any time, including raping my children or giving them to someone else to “take care of.” It’s the denial of humanity.

When we stand up for Civil Rights, we’re not fighting to keep African-Americans out of slavery or stop women from being barred from voting or having a say over their own body--we’re standing up for the idea we’re all human beings. And if you can’t see that, then you’re not really well-equipped to fight against discrimination. All you’re ready for is lip-service and that doesn’t do anyone any good.


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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 05:43 PM

24. I assure you that the % of gays that are of non-White races is EXACTLY the same...

As the % of White gays. Race has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation. White gays may appear more prevalent for two reasons... One... there is a greater overall White population in the United States than non-White (although it is shrinking). Therefore there are greater numbers of White gays, although the percent ratio is still identical to non-White populations. Two... White people are on average more economically sound, less religious, and thereby have a greater opportunity for independence from social and familial norms (which have been historically anti-gay).

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 30, 2012, 05:18 PM

30. What about black lesbians? Would you agree that they are discriminated against?

Or in your world view are there no black lesbians?

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 09:23 PM

4. There has always been a strain of this in NH politics

But it was very much at the fringe - Until the Tea Party movement (and lots of dirty, out-of -state money) put some of the lunatic fringe in the legislature.
And make no mistake - Thrifty NH businesses will take the money. Our winter resorts LOVE summer "destination weddings". And if a caterer or florist turns up their nose at the business, there will be 20 more waiting behind them.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:22 PM

15. If Obama would set an example by coming out in favor of marriage equality

this kind of stuff would be much less likely to happen.

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:23 PM

20. My Daughter is a waitress

at a new restaurant in Manchester. I quote"I will serve anyone with a wallet!" Thats my girl, by the my grandson is gay!

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:34 PM

22. Republicans are the Party of Hate

one day, some future historian will try and measure the huge amount of damage the GOP has done to America over the decades. I don't know if it can be clearly defined, but one thing is sure - the GOP is the Party of Hate.

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Response to Rex (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 05:45 PM

25. +1

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Response to n2doc (Original post)

Sun Jan 29, 2012, 05:48 PM

26. The "quote the Magna Carta" bill is impressively silly

I'd just quote Clause Nine and watch people scratch their heads, though.

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